344244 Sun Nov 19 20:11:22 -0800 2006 16 29 Not About Food 0 2034205 To anyone in the restaurant business, I'd like to know a little bit about something. I have been to three restaurants this month which had each been open for a few weeks. They all had liquor menus, but once I tried to order something I was informed that they did not have their liquor license yet. Do restaurants ideally wish to get the licenses in time for opening, or is there a "it'll come when it comes" attitude? If it takes such a long time to get a license, why not get on it immediately? Are delays common? Gotta say, it irks me a little to go out and not be able to have some wine or whatnot. I almost wish I would be told when coming into the restaurant "we don't have our license yet", so I could go somewhere else and then come back when I can get the full experience. Sun Nov 19 20:11:22 -0800 2006 15482 NovoCuisine 1 2034223 In some states in the US (e.g., Oregon) getting the license is difficult and expensive. Sun Nov 19 20:22:45 -0800 2006 2034205 36661 Sam Fujisaka 1 2034316 Here in PA it's also very expensive to get a license. My understanding of it is that here in PA, there are a limited number of liquor licenses available in the state of PA. Through the laws of supply and demand these licenses are sold at high prices and not everyone opening a new restaurant can afford the license. Sun Nov 19 21:20:23 -0800 2006 2034205 15507 Rick 1 2034432 liquor laws vary from state to state, and even within the state itself. in boston a liquor license costs about $250,000 and there are a finite amount. so a proprietor has to find one that's available, before even applying to the city. a wine and cordial license is easier and less expensive, but still no cake-walk. i'm in the business, and you want to have that license in place opening day to maximize revenue. that being said, rents are so high here that any serious restaurant cannot make enough money just being byob. it's one of the reasons dining out in boston is so costly. Sun Nov 19 22:27:03 -0800 2006 2034205 30273 hotoynoodle 1 2034438 Probably the main question to be asked here, from the consumer's point of view is: are we talking of a license to SELL alcohol, or a license to CONSUME in the premises? In the first case (and only then) BYOB should be OK. In CA my feeling is the license refers to consuming, irrespective of where the bottle was purchased. However, many restaurans without license allow patrons to BYOB anyways. Sun Nov 19 22:28:24 -0800 2006 2034205 28703 RicRios 2 2034457 here in massachusetts, if a place has a license, it's totally illegal to bring your own. even without, not every town allows byob, so you can be completely out of luck. Sun Nov 19 22:38:10 -0800 2006 2034438 30273 hotoynoodle 1 2034521 Here in PA if they don't have a license BYOB requires no license. You'll sometimes find places offering a free drink with dinner. They're allowed to give away alcohol, just can't sell. Last year before a local Mexican place got their license, they had patio parties with a few free margaritas included with the price of dinner. Sun Nov 19 23:17:18 -0800 2006 2034205 15507 Rick 1 2035534 I went out to a new place that just opened near my apartment (in New York) only to find out that not only did they not have their liquor license yet, but they also would not allow us to bring in our own! That seemed a little ridiculous... Mon Nov 20 14:35:29 -0800 2006 2034205 14093 Melanie 2 2036542 In the province of Ontario it is illegal to a) serve alcohol in a place without a liquor license b) allow people to bring alcohol without a byob license c) give away alcohol in any shape or form d) have discounts on alcohol (although there are some ways you can get around it) et cetera. Of course, that doesn't mean everybody follows these rules to the letter, but liquor regulations up here is a mass of very sticky tape and generally a bureaucratic mess, which makes liquor licenses that much harder to keep and get in this province. Mon Nov 20 19:57:54 -0800 2006 2035534 10980 Blueicus 1 2035539 Every state is different. In most cases, the time from application for a liscense to actually getting one can be quite lengthy so it is not uncommon for a restaurant to open before they actually get their license. Mon Nov 20 14:39:21 -0800 2006 2034205 11814 dinwiddie 1 2035584 I cant imagine anyone wanting to open without a liquor license. This is a lengthy process, not to mention expensive. Then there is the chance that someone will protest your license. In my city, most all restauarants that open without a license will offer complimentary wine or beer. It is better to get the establishment up and running if it is ready, rather than waiting to get your license. Mon Nov 20 15:00:46 -0800 2006 2034205 16777 sl1 1 2035893 You made a reasonable assumption that a new restaurant would have their liquor license. The first time it happened. Now you should know to ASK. Liquor laws vary locally, more than just state to state. And different restaurants will make their own rules. Our Economic Development Committee is the first stop for licences in our Ward. We don't waste a minute because every day the owners are paying the lease, bank loans and other costs. We even schedule special meetings to push it. Then damned if some jerk in the neighborhood doesn't file a stupid protest and then doesn't have time to meet until week after next! The restaurant has to make a financial decision to open when it can. It is sometimes a big gamble that it will ever get that license. Not getting one will likely doom it. It took one over two years to fight a nearby church. We all carried our wine, paid corkage and tipped generously until it finally got it. The restaurant really needed and appreciated our support. Maybe your jurisdiction allows BYOB. If not, maybe you can haves drinks before and after and skip wine with. If alcohol is that important, you'll just have to wait. Mon Nov 20 16:53:25 -0800 2006 2034205 32444 MakingSense 2 2037662 Yes, I made the assumption after being given wine menus with the food menus at all three restaurants, only to have them taken away once asked what we'd like to drink. I don't know specifics about BYOB in Ontario. I never bring my own wine. I realize I'll have to wait. I didn't walk out of the restaurants because I was told I couldn't have a glass of wine. Was just curious why I have to wait, that's why I asked. Tue Nov 21 02:02:01 -0800 2006 2035893 15482 NovoCuisine 1 2036381 I heard that it's really difficult to get the license. It requires a lot of patience and time. It also gets delayed all the time. They also do back ground check of the owners, etc... I also heard that buying a good lawyer who specialize in getting liquor license(or someone who does this on the side but i heard you can buy lawyer for this) can sometimes speed up the whole process. Mon Nov 20 19:14:52 -0800 2006 2034205 14734 Monica 1 2037108 I recently went to a new restaurant that had yet to acquire its license. They were serving beer and wine, but not selling it (i.e., they were comping the booze). I can't think that it was legal, but it was a goodwill gesture that brought me back to the restaurant the next week (when they had their license in place). Mon Nov 20 22:18:26 -0800 2006 2034205 52889 rcsimm 1 2039040 In California, the licensing process is tedious and slow. I know, I've been through it. Frequently local residents file complaints that can tie up the process for months, a hearing has to be scheduled to resolve them but there is no penalty if they don't show up. It should be possible to have a license when you open, but I'd bet for small places it probably won't happen. For chains or well funded (lawyered up) corporations, it doesn't seem to be as big a deal. Read into that what you will. Tue Nov 21 17:31:03 -0800 2006 2034205 10784 Scrapironchef 1 2041134 How ironic - people often love this because even when it's not actually legal, a lot of restaurants allow free BYOB during this phase. (In NYC, for example, you can't allow alcohol to be consumed on premises without some form of license, though not the full blown bar-sort, but this is usually honored in the breach unless someone actually complains to the ABC people.) Whether it's a long and tedious process or not, most indpendent, non "celebrity" restaurants (like most small businesses) are poorly capitalized, so there's usually a desperate rush to open and start bringing in cash ASAP. If the license isn't there by opening day, too bad. In an ideal world, of course, no restaurant would "prefer" to open without it - alcoholic beverages are the highest margin items on their menus by far! And sure, like anything else involving a governmental agency, the process and rules vary from state to state, county to county and sometimes even municipality to municipality. Wed Nov 22 09:39:18 -0800 2006 2034205 11980 MikeG