343418 Thu Nov 16 16:54:19 -0800 2006 33 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 2026904 I'm from Calgary, Canada, heartland of "Alberta Beef". A question aimed mostly at American chowhounds: Have you tried Alberta Beef, do you prefer it over your local beef, is it even on the radar? Personally the best beef I have had is a toss up between Galloway breed Alberta and Prime grade Alberta Black Angus. My cousins in Kansas would have a different view. What are yours? Thu Nov 16 16:54:19 -0800 2006 23349 formerlyfingers 1 2027545 I never heard of it here in NY. I think I remember something vaguely about it back ten years ago when I lived in Seattle. I never tried it. Thu Nov 16 19:34:25 -0800 2006 2026904 10732 JMF 1 2027650 I never heard of it in CA. Corn fed? grass fed? Mix? Retail places in CA? Any www links? Thu Nov 16 19:56:14 -0800 2006 2026904 28703 RicRios 2 2028059 I am a little shocked that Alberta Beef doesn't carry more name recognition. Oh well, good things are always best near the source. I assumed Alberta Beef had the same familiarity as , say...Hudson Valley Foie Gras, or Niman Ranch Lamb, or Idaho Potatoes, or Montreal Smoked Meat. It carries a lot more weight in Japan, where we tend to export much of the prime grades. Local, organic, hormone free, and small production beef is available here, too, however, the Alberta Beef name is one program that carries with it a recognition of quality and consistency. Grass fed, so different than lots of American beef. More cows in Alberta than people. Check out these sites or google Alberta Beef. www.albertabeef.org Thu Nov 16 21:37:48 -0800 2006 2027650 23349 formerlyfingers 1 2027904 I had some very nice beef in Calgary, back when I still ate beef. Now I'm waiting for my brain to melt. Just kidding. But, seriously, these days I'm pretty careful about getting local meat from a source I can trust. BTW, I was amazed by Calgary's Texas-like vibe. I was not expecting that. Thu Nov 16 20:51:08 -0800 2006 2026904 11231 Glencora 1 2028319 Actually, I've never heard of Montreal smoked meat, but I have heard of Alberta beef. Thu Nov 16 22:51:32 -0800 2006 2026904 11231 Glencora 2 2028527 O my! That is a surprise. Fri Nov 17 00:06:49 -0800 2006 2028319 24055 Atahualpa 1 2028451 Personally I have never heard of a steakhouse in the US, using Canadian beef(or specifically Alberta beef). Does Alberta beef have any presence in steakhouses in the US? Thu Nov 16 23:34:30 -0800 2006 2026904 11610 BLM 1 2029118 To BLM......god question, I shall have to get back to you on that, also welcome all other answers....hounds know best!! I do know that Alberta Beef is on better restaurant menus from Vancouver to Toronto to Halifax in this country. Fri Nov 17 04:05:53 -0800 2006 2026904 23349 formerlyfingers 2 2029208 I'm in Montreal, Alberta Beef is certainly also prevalent here. Here by far, the most popular cut is the rib steak(from what I hear, it's one of the few cities in North America where rib steak is king). A new cut I see in a couple of Montreal restaurants is the bone-in filet(is it available in Calgary?). I haven't seen Alberta Galloway beef here. Fri Nov 17 05:18:35 -0800 2006 2029118 11610 BLM 3 2030028 Just talked to my butcher here in Calgary. He knew of one resto in Montreal using bone-in filets and strips, a place called Le Cheval? He said though that they were using USDA Prime Beef, that is , American. Canadian (Alberta) abbatoirs generally are quite sticky about releasing bone-in product anymore...:( However, there is nothing stopping a restaurant which has its own butcher shop from cutting meats to their own specs, as is common in Manhattan and in Europe. My meat guy was not surprised to hear that Montreal restos are serving bone-in filets; wish I could say the same about Calgary. The rib-steak is available here, and certainly appreciated by many people, although not as common as it could/should be. Alberta Galloway and the Alberta Kobe/Wagyu programs are both producing remarkable products. Fri Nov 17 16:56:40 -0800 2006 2029208 23349 formerlyfingers 4 2031143 The steakhouse you're talking about is Queue de Cheval(to my knowledge the first restaurant in Montreal to carry the bone-in filet, when they started having it around 2+ years ago). Shortly after that 40 Westt steakhouse & A L'Os in Montreal had it. More recently Moises steakhouse in Montreal is serving the bone-in filet. Yes, Queue de Cheval steakhouse is serving US Prime beef, but during the US beef ban in Canada a year or so ago, they were using Canada Prime beef from Ontario. BTW formerlyfingers, are there any current Calgary steakhouses serving Canada Prime beef(last I heard from around 3 years ago, none in Calgary was serving it)? If yes, which ones? Fri Nov 17 22:25:06 -0800 2006 2030028 11610 BLM 5 2031516 The steakhouses all seem to cater to the tourists, business travellers and those out on their "special night". Hence, none of them really are too serious about culinary ambition, IMHO. They all serve AAA beef, the standard cuts, hardly ever changing the formula. With the availability of Canada Prime, though, some of the smaller, better restaurants serve the Prime beef periodically. Sadly, though, it just hasn't caught on with the dining crowd in Calgary. My own restaurant of which I am the Executive Chef, serves Prime sirloin at lunch, and I play around with different pieces here and there, as I did while in my previous kitchen. The only other place I know has and does serve it is a Bistro called Divino, where they have had the rib steak on as a fixture for years, but recently took it off. Sad. Perhaps Carvers serves it, and maybe, MAYBE Vintage, or at least at one point they did. If you've ever had it, you will know how remarkable it is, esp. sirloin and striploins. I'm hungry in that sort of primal, I need meat kind of way now....... Sat Nov 18 01:00:06 -0800 2006 2031143 23349 formerlyfingers 6 2031800 When you say some of the small better restaurants in Calgary do serve Canada Prime occasionally, would they charge extra when they have it? The Prime sirloin at lunch that you serve, what size & how much you charge? I don't know any Montreal steakhouses currently serving Canada Prime beef, but they're about 7-8 establishments (steahouses & restaurants) here serving US Prime. They're a couple of Montreal restaurants serving Canadian Certified Angus Beef. Is the rib-eye steak common in Calgary restaurants(you can find it in Montreal, but not that common)? We see hanger steak served in some Montreal restaurants, but not in steakhouses. Is it true, that almost all the filets sold in restaurants/steakhouses are never aged? That the best best aged & marbled filets are reserved as part of porterhouses & the bone-in filets? Sat Nov 18 04:06:18 -0800 2006 2031516 11610 BLM 7 2031945 The price actually isn't that prohibitive, especially on cuts like sirloin. There is a fairly good demand for the striploins, and they generally run about 3-4 dollars more per kg. than AAA. I serve a 6 oz. sirloin at lunch, which currently costs me 15.90/kg. I charge 22$ for the dish, but I change the menu quite often, and the price fluctuates very regularly. I am surprised by the fact that the restaurants in Montreal are using USDA Prime. I wonder what the thinking is, or if it's consumer demand driven? There are few restaurants who conscientiously age their beef past the 28 days the packers give it, but there are exceptions. Whole beef cuts actually do OK aging for a week or more "in the bag" or cryovac'd but past that, it should be dry aged for longer periods, if desired. I once served a 50 day dry aged ribeye of AAA, and it was truly unbelievable, more tender and deeply flavoured than you could fathom, but with low yield due to high loss. They would actually be black and totally dry outside, and would take no time to cook. They were on my menu for about 6 months, a couple years ago.People seemed to love them, some more than others. You would need a temperature and humidity controlled room to pull this off. Like anything else, a chef will take the necessary measures to reflect his own level of commitment and integrity, and unfortunately, the same goes the other way. Sat Nov 18 06:36:47 -0800 2006 2031800 23349 formerlyfingers 8 2033514 Very few Montreal restaurants(including steakhouses) dry age their beef. I'm guessing USDA Prime being available in Montreal is partly consumer demand, as Canada Prime is almost totally unknown by the Montreal public(even USDA Prime only came to Montreal around 5 years ago). From what I gather USDA Prime is only available in Montreal, Toronto & Vancouver within Canada, although Edmonton is now getting USDA Prime, with the new Ruth's Chris steakhouse opening there. Sun Nov 19 07:08:04 -0800 2006 2031945 11610 BLM 8 2040816 BTW, why do you like the Alberta Galloway beef so much? You're not first person I've heard rate Galloway beef so highly. It just that it's not available here in Montreal so I can't try it, & plus Galloway beef is much leaner that Prime grade beef. Wed Nov 22 03:57:17 -0800 2006 2031945 11610 BLM 9 2041818 The Galloway breed is a rather sedate, docile animal, resulting in meat that is not overly muscled. I should have added the distinction that I really only appreciate the leaner cuts of the Galloway, like the sirloin and the tenderloin. I usually do not like tenderloin much, especially where rib cuts or striploins are offered, however the Galloway tenderloin remains the best I have had. Alberta Prime beef though wins across all other categories, hands down. Wed Nov 22 17:14:53 -0800 2006 2040816 23349 formerlyfingers 9 2041825 Sounds like its time to make the trek out West and see for yourself, huh? Wed Nov 22 17:15:59 -0800 2006 2040816 23349 formerlyfingers 7 2031949 Oh, by the way, ribeye is to Calgary what you say Rib steak is to Montreal; very common, and a personal fave of mine. I do love a rib steak cooked in cast iron with a nice crust though.... Sat Nov 18 06:41:38 -0800 2006 2031800 23349 formerlyfingers 8 2033517 The last few years, I've changed to favour ribeyes over rib steak, as they tend to have more marbling. Although maybe rib steaks could have more flavour, as it has the bone. In the US, rib steaks are called ribeye with bone-in(I think that's what I've heard)? Sun Nov 19 07:13:52 -0800 2006 2031949 11610 BLM 1 2040972 Most Americans aren't familiar with Alberta Beef unless they've eaten in outside of the US during the past few years. Canadian beef exports to the US were halted in 2003 because of Mad Cow Disease. It was isolated in beef from Canada in Washington State. In 2005, the US 9th Circuit issued a temporary restraining order continuing the ban on imports from Canada. The Court refused to make the ban permanent in the Spring, 2006 so Canadian beef should start to reappear in American markets. Needless to say, American beef producers wanted the ban extended. Wed Nov 22 05:51:11 -0800 2006 2026904 32444 MakingSense 2 2041802 Unfortunately, this is only part of the story. True, BSE, or mad cow disease was found in a cow in WS state, but Canada had already discovered at least two other cows with BSE on farms in Alberta and Manitoba. The lobby group for American beef farmers, R Calf, fought hard to keep Canadian beef exports out, but science has shown that because of the highly integrated nature of the two countries' programs, there is n't a significant risk posed from so called "Canadian beef". It is only because of extremely conscientious testing that these cows were discovered at all. Ironically, though it hurt many farms and producers here in Canada, the ban served to tighten up the operations, streamline some, and generally make for a better product, especially because during the ban, Canadian consumers were able to experience the Premium and Prime grades of beef, formerly almost exlusively reserved for export, thereby creating domestic demand for these products where it hadn't existed before. I am glad we are now keeping some of our best beef at home, keeping our cuisine regional more than in the past. We are seeing something good, from a taste and quality standpoint, arise from something that had the optics of something bad. My original question still stands, what do people outside of Alberta think of Alberta beef; how does it compare to your local stuff or others you have had from elsewhere: Europe, Argentina, etc.? Wed Nov 22 17:10:05 -0800 2006 2040972 23349 formerlyfingers 1 2042001 North Carolina Chowhound recently transplanted from Toronto, so I've eaten a fair amouunt of Alberta beef over the years. IMO, it's no better than the Certified Angus I can pick up in just about any supermarket locally. I wouldn't go out of my way to find it, and wouldn't pay a premium for it if it were available locally. Wed Nov 22 18:11:48 -0800 2006 2026904 23835 mclaugh 1 2042341 At the Prime grade level, all the Montreal steakhouses/restaurants prefer USDA Prime over Canada Prime. Depite that fact, that Canada Prime is problably significantly cheaper than USDA Prime. During the US beef ban, USDA Prime Montreal steakhouses/restaurants switched to Canada Prime(or in some cases AAA). When the US beef ban was over, they all switched back to US beef(to my knowledge). In Queue de Cheval steakhouse case, it took them a month or two, before deciding to switch back to USDA Prime, but they were using corn-fed Ontario Canada Prime beef. I haven't eaten enough Canada Prime beef(ate it once when I got hold of Canada Prime beef, to take home), to compare with USDA Prime. I've tried some very good AAA Alberta beef, & no so good AAA Alberta beef. I've tried Canadian Certified Angus beef several times, & was not impressed(I think it's now called Angus Pride beef). Tried US Certified Angus Beef several times, & been very impressed. Liked very much Canada Sterling Silver AAA Alberta beef. Wed Nov 22 19:45:35 -0800 2006 2026904 11610 BLM 2 2042625 I would have to admit that much of the AAA program beef isn't all that impressive, and tends to be inconsistent. That said, I have had some very good AA beef before too. The American beef program seems to have consistency nailed down, which is likely why restaurants choose to use it. I have no complaints about any of the Canada Prime grade beef I have had, but I am intrigued about USDA prime beef. I may have to come to Montreal to try it. Is there some weird irony in all that? Wed Nov 22 21:28:51 -0800 2006 2042341 23349 formerlyfingers 3 2042793 Couldn't you in Calgary as you work as a executive chef in a restaurant, get hold of USDA Prime beef? From what I gather the restaurants/steakhouses in Toronto & Vancouver, also prefer USDA Prime over Canada Prime(if not all of them, a vast majority of them). Wed Nov 22 22:40:08 -0800 2006 2042625 11610 BLM 4 2043844 I'm sure I could. It would certainly be a bold move to put American Beef on my menu, considering where I am. However, I would not be opposed to it. When I first started to use Bison meat 5 or 6 years ago, there was a company who was leading the way as far as raising the animals, proper animal husbandry - feed, no hormones etc. and they were considered the benchmark as far as quality goes. However, like so many other industries ( mac vs. PC comes to mind) other, often smaller companies take the idea and simply improve on it. There are now suppliers and producers who provide me with better, more consistent, and often even less pricey bison products, right under the nose of the so called experts. They have made the original idea something completely different and vastly better. Of course, the most obvious benefactor of this type of process is the customer at the level of the individual restaurant. By one or two chefs, then a few more starting to use better beef, outside of the "Holy Circle" of "Alberta Beef", the effect should be of our local program improving to keep viable, or at least that's the theory, right? I will make a call today and see about getting some US product in to try it out and let you know of my findings. Thu Nov 23 16:44:57 -0800 2006 2042793 23349 formerlyfingers 3 2047370 You nailed it. I've heard some of Montreal restaurants that are using US beef, say that Canadian beef is inconsistent. Sun Nov 26 05:39:35 -0800 2006 2042625 11610 BLM 1 2044395 I've had Alberta Beef, I've had USDA Prime, I've had Canadian Prime (not Alberta), I've had some dry-aged, grass-fed, local, small herd, naturally raised stuff from Cumbrae's in Toronto, and some not dry-aged local naturally raised stuff sourced through Rowe valley. In fact I've had them close to side by side (within a weekend over the summer with some friends to share the cost). The best was the local naturally raised and dry-aged from Cumbrae's. After that, there wasn't too much distinction. The USDA prime was towards the lower end of the scale though (maybe due to failing to meet a high expectation?). Given that experience, I chose some lovely rib-steaks (bone on, 3-4cm thick -- from Cumbrae's) for my birthday on Monday and grilled them over charcoal with some sel gris and ate twice as much as I usually do. Best steaks I've ever had. Nice bottle of of Zenato Amarone 2001 too. Fri Nov 24 03:21:43 -0800 2006 2026904 24055 Atahualpa 2 2144647 I have to agree about Cumbrae's (A high end Toronto shop sourcing specially raised local meats from Ontario and a few from P.Q.). The best steak I had last year was their shoulder steak (you have to ask for it.) It was thick cut near the rib, but much cheaper, just about $10 per steak, and had loads of flavour but still tender, just what I wanted. Local sourcing, proper aging, and good meatcutting are the key points for this shop. Tue Jan 02 04:33:14 -0800 2007 2044395 56131 jayt90 1 2047433 Calgary poster here. I have seen Alberta beef for sale in California grocery stores (sorry, can't remember which). This was over a decade ago though. Sun Nov 26 06:51:20 -0800 2006 2026904 45940 Shazam 1 2138917 Unfortunately here in Canada, ordering food by mail order is not really prevalent. I wish I could order by mail the very very best Canada Prime beef available(lets say dry-aged at least 7-8 weeks), direct from a distributor and/or from a top butcher shop. Who gets the best Alberta beef in Canada(I'm guessing in the US, the top NYC steakhouses & a NYC butcher shop like Lobels, would get first shot at the very very best USDA Prime beef)? Would it stay in Alberta, or maybe the top Toronto steakshouses would get them(as they're more willing to pay top dollar)? Sat Dec 30 05:41:53 -0800 2006 2026904 11610 BLM 1 2142298 Having lived in Calgary my entire life and now living in Bermuda where all beef is imported from the US I really miss good beef Sun Dec 31 22:15:14 -0800 2006 2026904 63224 excalgarian