338265 Mon Oct 30 04:13:20 -0800 2006 21 31 Home Cooking 0 1981927 After discovering how much I love concord grape pulp in drinks and gelato, I was intent on making a pie after reading this thread: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/333040?query=grape+pie&user_name= My concord grape gelato report here: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/332506?query=grape+gelato&user_name= I used David Lebovitz's recipe in Room for Dessert and decided to go all out by using his recipe for the double crust and accompanying vanilla ice cream. What can I say, I was feeling very domestic that weekend and wanting to make everything from scratch. I don't have the book here since I borrowed it from work, which is just as well since I'm feeling too lazy to paraphrase all the recipes right now. If anyone really wants the recipe(s), I'll try to recall from memory or find online. The process for the pie generally involved seeding about 2.5 lbs. of grapes, reserving the skin and flesh for the filling. This is then mixed w/ some sugar and tapioca flour. David instructs the cook to seed by slicing the grape in half and picking out each seed w/ your fingers. He says that while it is tedious, he can do this in about 30 min. I would love to witness this because, after starting on this task, that sounded impossible! My grapes were on the smallish side, and the skins just slid right off. The pale green flesh inside was a little slippery, almost slimy, which made it very challenging to slice cleanly in half. It got to the point where I just tried to squeeze the seed out w/ my fingers, but after about the 15th grape, I was spent and very frustrated (and I'm usually a patient cook/baker!). Seeing the full basket of grapes awaiting such application, I knew this wasn't happening. So I pull out the food mill and decided to just puree all the grapes at once. I then collected the skins that had gathered in the vessel and combined them w/ the pulp. So I cheated, but if I had gone the original route, I would be in the grape-seeding insane asylum and wouldn't be here to tell this story. The filling is poured into the pie shell, another crust is layered and sealed on top, vents are cut, and then it's baked at 400F for about 50-60 min. I could tell that I was a little short on filling so that my pie would be a little flat and not have the ideal crust to filling ratio, but I never complain about too much crust. The ice cream is a typical vanilla custard base; however, his version uses more cream than milk (2:1) and a little more egg yolk than I prefer (5 for 3 c. dairy). His recipe isn't very detailed and doesn't call for the custard to reach 170F, which has become standard practice for me even when recipes don't call for this. So...here's a photo of the final result on a plate: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/btdoan/IMG_5838.jpg First, the grape pie smelled incredible while baking. This is a little embarrassing to admit, but when my house is filled w/ the fragrance of a fruit dessert, I feel very feminine, like a real woman or something. Cooked in the requisite time and thickened up nicely. The flavor was really wonderful. Slightly tart, sweet, and gooey w/ a luscious jammy quality. Reminded me of cherry pie, but not quite. I was worried the skin might lend an unpleasant flavor or texture, but on the contrary, it melded in seamlessly and added just a little chew. Unfortunately, some seeds trespassed into the filling, so my husband was a little turned off. Oops. The crust was ultra buttery and flakey (thanks to Plugra!), although it was a little thick at the seam. I would use the crust recipe again for future double-crusted pies. It was fairly easy to work with once chilled. Pie tasted best still slightly warm from the oven. The ice cream was very good on the first night; however, it suffered from the greasy slick mouthfeel of too much cream after sitting in the freezer a day or two. As others have noted in a recent ice cream thread, a 1:1 ratio of cream and milk is preferable. I also found it a bit too eggy and sweet for me. I'll go back to my recipe for vanilla ice cream. Overall, I'm really glad I tried these recipes. Even though they didn't turn out perfect, they were still fun to make and eat. If I can get my hands on more concord grapes, I'm hoping to make David's concord grape "jelly" (attn. rworange: essentially a jello) served w/ his peanut butter cookies. This guy has a sense of humor. Anyone try those recipes yet? http://www.davidlebovitz.com/ Mon Oct 30 04:13:20 -0800 2006 10371 Carb Lover 1 1982015 Wow! I'll admit that the idea of grape pie made me snicker to myself "What will they think of next!?" Then I realized that grape jelly exists in the real world and is even good. So I decided to read on. I don't know if I'd ever try it due to the seeding issue. I also don't usually mind lots of steps and prep in cooking (I actually usually like it a lot) but seeding grapes? Yikes. I have the memory that Concord grapes are smaller than the usual purplish grapes. Is this true? You also mentioned that some skins got through and that some seeds were in the pie after baking....did they produce that bitter flavor one hears about? I've experienced it when eating a grape seed by mistake when wolfing down grapes. Mon Oct 30 05:09:53 -0800 2006 1981927 10245 oakjoan 2 1982060 I'm not a big grape jelly fan, but I seem to like everything else made w/ these concord grapes. Yes, my organic grapes are smaller than the average supermarket grape. If they were larger and the flesh more firm, I don't think it would have been as trying to seed. Just a few seeds got through and unfortunately, my husband got a couple in his first slice (bad luck). They didn't make the entire pie bitter, but did taste bitter once chomped into. The recipe called for use of the skin in the filling, so I did gather as much skin as possible to combine w/ the pureed flesh. That tasted great. I'm not sure if I would go through the trouble of making this pie again, even w/ the shortcut I took. I like apple and peach pie better... Mon Oct 30 05:27:52 -0800 2006 1982015 10371 Carb Lover 3 1982632 Fun read. It does seem like a lot of work--especially when pouring some fresh berries into a pie is so easy :). I especially like this part of your report... "This is a little embarrassing to admit, but when my house is filled w/ the fragrance of a fruit dessert, I feel very feminine, like a real woman or something." I have a similar sense--but it is the feeling of being a "nurturing mom". Funny how that is. Of course all that "good feeling" is obliterated if the flavor disappoints. I really hate when that happens! Mon Oct 30 15:55:25 -0800 2006 1982060 10309 Funwithfood 3 1983420 If you did try again, try getting the Concords from a Farmers Market, they are generally larger and easier to seed. I believe you are in the SF Bay Area, as am I. If so, Hamada Farm has beautiful, large Concord grapes at the Tuesday and Saturday Farmers Market, and one of the young women who works on Saturdays has great tips re; seeding Concords. She also makes a great pie. Thanks for the great post! Mon Oct 30 19:42:42 -0800 2006 1982060 11225 rabaja 4 1984676 Yes, I'm in Santa Cruz but have been known to drive up to SF for special produce. Thanks for the tip on Hamada Farm. Do you know how much per pound they charge? None of the SC farmers markets sells them so I get mine through work from a local forager for just $1/lb. Can't beat that! They taste wonderful, but this last batch happened to be on the small side. Tue Oct 31 02:09:49 -0800 2006 1983420 10371 Carb Lover 1 1982413 the crust looks amazing -- did you do an egg wash before baking? Beautiful color and form. Brava, CL! Mon Oct 30 14:39:39 -0800 2006 1981927 11234 toodie jane 2 1982551 Thanks, toodie jane. Yes, the recipe calls for an egg wash consisting of one egg yolk and a little milk. The crust turned a nice deep brown, and I chose to put a piece of foil on top during the last 5-10 min. It made a slight crackle noise when I cut into it, a beautiful sound! I tried to not add too much moisture (ie, ice water) or overwork, and it paid off. Plugra makes a big difference too. Ideally, there should have been more filling btwn. the top and bottom crusts, but I won't complain... Mon Oct 30 15:27:15 -0800 2006 1982413 10371 Carb Lover 1 1982831 I'm glad you tried David Lebovitz' recipe. The only tedious part is seeding the grapes. I did a double batch and just settled down with a big bowl, a cutting board and knife. It probably took a couple of hours to prep the 5 lbs or so of grapes. The skins aren't bitter or chewy, the texture of the grapes reminds me of sour cherries. As you say, the aroma is amazing. I had to restrain DH after he finished his 3rd piece. I think it's one of the most distinctive pies I've tasted. DH had scoops of the various ice creams I made over the summer - peach was his favorite. I like my pie straight up. Mon Oct 30 17:03:07 -0800 2006 1981927 12335 cheryl_h 2 1982901 Cheryl H, I should have thanked you in my original post for pointing that recipe out. It was def. a unique pie. You sound much more patient about seeding those grapes than I was! Did you use his crust recipe as well? Mon Oct 30 17:27:32 -0800 2006 1982831 10371 Carb Lover 3 1983152 You're welcome. DH suggested we (or rather I) make another grape pie. We have lots of Concord grapes growing wild at the bottom of our yard, but the prospect of another seeding session was too offputting. I think a toothpick or hairpin would help. I might try your solution and use a food mill next time. No, I didn't use his crust recipe. I have a favorite pie crust recipe which uses half-lard, half-butter. It makes melt-in-the mouth pies so I make it in huge quantities and keep it in the freezer. Mon Oct 30 18:34:17 -0800 2006 1982901 12335 cheryl_h 1 1983650 I know you are keen on using up your Concord grapes (and I get that) but grape pies can be made with seedless green grapes and they work very well. I use it all the time (from Farm Journal cookbook).This is one of those glamour desserts that keep folks guessing exactly whats in it: I serve it with ginger ice creram. BTW, Ben and Jerry's ice cream cookbook has a vanilla ice cream recipe that does not use a cooked custard and is, IMHO, superb. It is not for those with compromised immune systems as it uses raw eggs, but so much better, faster and delicious. Mon Oct 30 20:47:59 -0800 2006 1981927 24738 LJS 2 1984206 Do you have a recipe you can post for your seedless grape pie? I would never have believed Concord grapes would make a good pie but they are fabulous. I'm curious to try this with other grapes which are more readily available. I found my pie very juicy. I put a cookie sheet underneath the pie pan which caught the overflow. Is your pie similar? Mon Oct 30 23:29:23 -0800 2006 1983650 12335 cheryl_h 3 1984686 Yes, please post your seedless pie recipe! Tue Oct 31 02:11:53 -0800 2006 1984206 10371 Carb Lover 1 1984385 There is an easier way to seed the grapes. Pop off the skins and reserve. Put the pulp in a pot. Bring to a boil while mashing with a potato masher. Let it boil until the grapes break down. Push the mixture through a sieve into a bowl. Add back the skins and continue with the recipe. Next time try a little orange oil or zest. It is so good. -Becca Tue Oct 31 00:32:45 -0800 2006 1981927 11259 Becca Porter 2 1984703 Thanks, Becca. I remember you suggesting this in the other thread. Wouldn't the sieved fruit mixture need to cool down before putting into the pie crusts to bake? The food mill seems to do the same job w/o applying heat, except I just need to strain out any seeds next time! Orange zest sounds great... Tue Oct 31 02:16:30 -0800 2006 1984385 10371 Carb Lover 2 1985477 I made a Concord grape pie a few weeks ago, and it was wonderful. I used Rose Levy Beranbaum's recipe from "The Pie and Pastry Bible", and that was essentially her method. She had you squeeze off the skins and reserve them, put the pulp into a pot and squeeze the juice from the skins into it, cook the pulp briefly and sieve to remove the seeds, and add the squeezed out skins back into the pulp along with the sugar, cornstarch etc. I think it was less tedious than seeding each grape individually. Tue Oct 31 15:14:54 -0800 2006 1984385 11543 susu 3 1985594 Yes I actually use this recipe. Only I add the orange oil. Tue Oct 31 16:03:05 -0800 2006 1985477 11259 Becca Porter 3 1989448 That's the same method for the grape pie recipe in "The All-American Dessert Book". Looks like a good one - it won best grape pie in the 2001, 2002, 2003 Naples Grape Festival in NY. hmmmm. maybe I'll try that one - Carblover's pie looks so tasty! Wed Nov 01 21:26:33 -0800 2006 1985477 10271 Rubee 1 1984890 It really doesn't cook long enough for much flavor loss. Actually it probably just reduces out some of the water and intensifies the flavor. I usually let it sit a few minutes. Then when you add all the ingredients it cools it down some more. Also, I usually refrigerate my pies for an hour or so before baking, after I finish assembling them. -Becca Tue Oct 31 03:34:30 -0800 2006 1981927 11259 Becca Porter 1 1989427 As requested here is my recipe for Grape Pie, as adapted from the Farm Journal Cookbook. It is much easier than the one discussed above, and while I am certain it will lack the exoticism of that one, it sure makes my guests delighted, especially when accompanied by Ginger Ice Cream. For any standard apple pie recipe, substitute half the apples with (seedless) Thompson grapes (the small green kind). Prepare your apples as usual, and simply wash the grapes. It is not necessary to skin or chop them. You should have 5-6 cups in total and I wouldn't worry about the proportions of apples to grapes too much. Use 3 tablespoons of quick cooking tapioca as your thickener. Substitute ground cardomon for the usual cinnamon in the apple-pie recipe (or use both). Thats it...all else is the same-sweetener, cooking time, double pie crust et al. You will find this a very forgiving recipe, infinitely flexible and, yet, it makes quite a hit at the table with about a third the effort of the Concord Grape Pie cited above. Enjoy! Wed Nov 01 21:20:33 -0800 2006 1981927 24738 LJS 2 1990374 Thanks for posting this. I didn't realize that it also had apples; sounds intriguing. Have you ever made it w/ only grapes? Thu Nov 02 02:46:02 -0800 2006 1989427 10371 Carb Lover