336440 Mon Oct 23 16:21:00 -0700 2006 34 31 Home Cooking 0 1965933 Hi there, I've been intrigued by some recent news that I've read and heard about Umami as well as MSG. I don't suffer from any allergy to MSG, so I'm interested in trying to use it in some of my cooking. Does anyone have any advice on how best to incorporate MSG into recipes or foods? I’m curious about quantity, when to add it, what ingredients match best, what doesn’t? Really, any info would be great. Thanks. Mon Oct 23 16:21:00 -0700 2006 46675 Fatty Lumpkin 1 1966362 Just sprinkle some in when you feel like a dish is "flat" or lacking something. For instance, one place I often use MSG is when I'm making guacamole, and the avocados aren't perfectly ripe or lack flavor. I don't really have recipes that call for it -- it's more of a flavor enhancer, used in addition to (or in place of) salt to properly season a dish, like if you taste a dish and it's not really salt it needs, but something else you can't put your finger on. I don't really measure, just sprinkle some in -- probably less than a 1/2 tsp. Mon Oct 23 18:27:51 -0700 2006 1965933 11028 DanaB 1 1966380 You know, besides MSG, have you ever tried a teeny bit of sour salt to perk up the flavor? (it's citric acid, and in judicious amounts, sometimes works very well). Mon Oct 23 18:31:16 -0700 2006 1965933 11599 Alice Letseat 2 1967361 Where the heck do you find citric acid. I look high and low in markets and cann ot find. On the net maybe? Please help, I have a recipe for "sweet and sour meat" that my mother made that calls for citric acid. Tried lemon juice and it ain;t the same, please? Mon Oct 23 23:56:56 -0700 2006 1966380 11290 jfood 3 1967605 Kosher foods section--'sour salt' Tue Oct 24 01:30:54 -0700 2006 1967361 10926 mnosyne 3 1967638 A lot of shops have pure citric acid, for example Trader Joe Tue Oct 24 01:42:23 -0700 2006 1967361 13239 honkman 4 1967667 thanks guys, will take a harder look. Tue Oct 24 01:54:49 -0700 2006 1967638 11290 jfood 3 1968561 King ARthur Flour sells - the link is below: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/list.jsp?term=citric+acidit. Tue Oct 24 15:00:50 -0700 2006 1967361 11057 macca 1 1966457 I use MSG now and then, pretty much as DanaB describes: When a dish seems to be lacking something but I can't quite put my finger on it, I reach for the MSG and add a pinch or two. It doesn't take much to 'brighten' flavors. FWIW, people who swear they can't tolerate any MSG have eaten my food and never known the difference. Mon Oct 23 18:55:54 -0700 2006 1965933 13700 ricepad 2 1967718 Be extremely careful who you try to trick into eating MSG. 99% of the people out there will be oblivious to your secret ingredient, but some people really are severely allergic. The MSG can increase their heart rate and cause severe problems with breathing. After lung surgery my friend was instructed to cut out all caffeine, MSG, alcohol, and anything else that might rapidly increase heart rate. Even a pinch! Tue Oct 24 02:22:19 -0700 2006 1966457 11577 Pei 3 1968585 Reaction to MSG is not an allergy, and I've never heard of anyone being tested for it. Furthermore, anyone instructed by a doctor not to have any MSG absolutley needs to warn everyone before eating ANYTHING. MSG is found in many processed foods, and I doubt if it is commonly listed anymore. Anyone with a severe reaction (i.e. difficulty breathing) to even slight amounts of MSG should only eat foods they cook themselves from 100% fresh ingredients. For anyone else who may have a non-severe reaction to MSG, it probably would take over one gram and maybe even 5 grams to trigger a reaction. The home cook sprinkling some in the guacamole is probably serving up less than a quarter gram per person. Tue Oct 24 15:10:44 -0700 2006 1967718 10156 Steve 4 1969021 The human body generates a certain amount of free glutamates (MSG) per day. If someone were, indeed, severely allergic to MSG, that would make them allergic to themselves. Tue Oct 24 17:21:29 -0700 2006 1968585 13805 scott123 4 2174545 well, I'll tell ya, MSG gives me a migraine every time. without fail. it's one of the reasons I don't eat very many processed foods. I don't know about allergies and whatnot, but it's an extremely common headache trigger for people. And while not life threatening (like anaphylactic shock), it sure puts a damper on things about a half hour after ingesting it. Wed Jan 10 21:02:03 -0800 2007 1968585 47694 litchick 5 2174584 People tend to use the terms "allergy" and "sensitivity" interchangably -- a lot of people probably don't even know there's a difference. People who have true (and often life-threatening) food allergies get a little irritated about people who throw the term allergy around indiscriminantly. Anyway, my understanding is that lots of foods naturally contain MSG -- especially really fresh produce (supposedly one reason the taste of produce deteriorates is that the natural MSG breaks down). So if you were really allergic to MSG, you'd be allergic to a wide range of foods. Wed Jan 10 21:09:33 -0800 2007 2174545 10159 Ruth Lafler 5 2174655 Perhaps it is the excessive sodium that's triggering your migrane...mSg--often migrane triggers elevate the blood pressure (like caffeine, chocolate, cheeses). Excessive table salt is a trigger for you as well. Wed Jan 10 21:20:48 -0800 2007 2174545 12023 Hungry Celeste 3 1968877 Hold on a second there! I never said I tricked anybody into eating MSG...that's rude at a minimum, and possibly potentially dangerous. What happened was that several people who've eaten a lot of my cooking once got into an MSG-bashing session, and several of them were swearing up one side and down the other that they (a) could ALWAYS tell when they've eaten food with MSG, and (b) react miserably to it. I just kind of sat there thinking to myself, "I don't think so..." Tue Oct 24 16:39:57 -0700 2006 1967718 13700 ricepad 1 1966460 I don't use very often, but I like to use a little in eggs, seems to boost up the flavor and also, of course in the Asian food I make. Like Dana said, it takes very little, but does enhance the flavor of a dish that's just a bit blah. Watch out tho, too much and your dish can be ruined. Mon Oct 23 18:56:13 -0700 2006 1965933 15697 jackie de 1 1966552 I often add just a pinch of Sazon Goya to stuff -- it really works. And no one (even MSG-phobes) has noticed. Another trick is adding a hit of soy sauce to enhance the umami flavor. Try it in a vinaigrette. Mon Oct 23 19:22:41 -0700 2006 1965933 43893 C. Hamster 1 1966837 If I ever use MGS in home cooking I tend to cut the amount of MSG from the total salt that the recipe calls for. Mushrooms and cheese also tend to be high in a chemical compound that is very close to MSG and their use will give the same effect. Mon Oct 23 20:44:34 -0700 2006 1965933 22220 Kelli2006 2 1971953 Yup! I use MSG just now and then, but have a grinder of dried mushrooms that really helps with the umami taste, in lots of things. Handy, and blends right in (taste- and texture-wise). Wed Oct 25 18:28:53 -0700 2006 1966837 48155 juster 1 1967365 Make sure you check with the guest. In Jfood-land, the snoring will hit the airwaves before the dessert with our allergies to MSG. Mon Oct 23 23:58:01 -0700 2006 1965933 11290 jfood 1 1967752 I tried it - I'm a sucker for "if they sell it at restaurant supply stores, they must know something I don't" - couldn't taste a bit of difference. Tue Oct 24 02:34:10 -0700 2006 1965933 14479 wayne keyser 1 1968087 It helps to understand which foods already have a large amount of naturally occurring MSG (free glutamates). Soy sauce, parmesan and tomato paste are high on the list. Concentrated broth/stock has quite a bit of umami. If I'm making, say, lasagna, with a tomato paste based sauce and cheese filling with a hefty dose of Parmigiano Reggiano, I won't add MSG. Because I use parm in most of my Italian cooking, I find MSG unnecessary. If I'm making a soy sauce based dish, I don't add MSG either. In Asia, they seem to have no problem combining soy sauce and MSG, but to me, that's overkill. When you start combining rich sources of free glutamates, it's very easy to enter the 'in your face' realm of Cool Ranch Doritos. I love Doritos, but I don't want that much of a kick in everyday food. Besides, MSG has a way of magnifying saltiness, so if you start off with salty soy sauce, adding MSG will send the perceived saltiness through the roof. So, as a general rule, if I'm working with tomato paste, soy sauce or parm, I don't add MSG. MSG is incredibly powerful stuff. If you start comparing the free glutamates in soy sauce and parm to pure MSG, the equivalent amount of MSG is minuscule. A little goes a long way. Dash (1/8 t.), pinch (1/16 t.) and smidgeon (1/32 t.) measuring spoons are invaluable for measuring it. For instance, when I make 8 quarts of chili, I still only add 1/4 t. Speaking of chili... TexMex cuisine is where MSG really shines. I'd never make chili without it. Same thing for taco seasoning. Refried beans. Maybe it has a particular synergy with cumin. Whatever the reason, it's amazing in TexMex cuisine. I've also noticed that anything with MSG goes very well with sour cream. Next on the list is probably Cajun. It's phenomenal in gumbo and jambalaya. Maybe it's because I'm conditioned by the Indian restaurants I frequent, but it seems MSG works wonderfully in Indian food. Dal, saag, chicken tikka masala, kofta, aloo gobi- you name it. Fish sauce has plenty of free glutamates/salt, so I generally avoid adding MSG to Thai curries. There are certain ingredients that cross cultural boundaries. Anytime I work with beans, I add MSG. Chicken seems to marry well with it. As long as it's not Chicken parm or Chicken with Garlic Sauce, I usually add some MSG to most chicken dishes. Gravy/pan drippings are a concentrated source of glutamates so I generally don't add MSG to gravies/pan sauces. I do usually enrich my gravies/sauces with reduced stock, though, so it's usually leaning toward umami overkill already. It's great in Arroz con Pollo. The water in soup, and, to a lesser extent, stews, dilutes flavor, making MSG ideal for those applications. Be careful with the salt content, though. Lastly, if you're adding commercial products to your dishes, you want to be aware of the ingredients. A lot of products contain MSG and it's not always called by that name. Yeast Extract Hydrolyzed Protein Plant Protein Extract Textured Protein Autolyzed Yeast are just a few of the names it's hidden under. 'Natural flavoring' can often be a form of free glutamates/MSG. If you're adding a product with a lot of salt and/or added MSG to a dish, you probably don't want to add more MSG to the mix. If you have an Asian or a Latino grocer in your vicinity, get your MSG there, as it will be a fraction of the cost of accent. Accent is a rip off. Go to Walmart (or Williams Sonoma, depending on your budget), buy dash/pinch/smidgeon measuring spoons. Start off my adding a smidgeon at a time to dishes. Add it before you start adding salt. The more you cook with it, the easier it will be to detect/adjust according to your taste. Tue Oct 24 06:05:14 -0700 2006 1965933 13805 scott123 2 1973658 I heard that there are 2 kinds of MSG used - natural occuring, which sounds like what you've described, and the synethetic (?) kind - and the difference lies in the direction in which the chemical chain moves (not a science person, so this is what I remember). I'm hugely sensitive to the additive kind (dry mouth, bad headaches), so I sympathize with the allergic etc. (and why I was fascinated with the topic). But I also grew up in an asian household with a mom who's an incredible cook, so for those dishes that need a little "somethin' somethin'" - there are always natural alternatives that can enhance the flavor. I can respect other people's choice to use (and capability to eat) it, but I'd like to advocate that people TRY NATURAL (ingredients) FIRST!!! :) Thu Oct 26 09:38:15 -0700 2006 1968087 48403 bbc 2 2174624 I've never used MSG in any cajun foods...in trad cajun cooking, most of the umami is amply supplied by smoked pork products and/or layered stages of browning ingredients (ex. roux, onions, meats...) Wed Jan 10 21:15:34 -0800 2007 1968087 12023 Hungry Celeste 1 1968095 I agree about not adding msg if you are adding soy sauce, or wakame (or any other seaweed) for that matter. I add it to some vegetable dishes like when I'm making banchan (korean side dishes). I litterally add a dash (one flick of the wrist) when adding to dishes...don't add too much because it gets to be overpowering. I buy ajinomoto brand msg from my local asian grocer. It's super cheap and Ive had the same bottle for over 2 years. gross fact about me: I like to take dill pickles and liberally dip them in msg, it tastes better than it sounds Tue Oct 24 06:15:18 -0700 2006 1965933 24546 bitsubeats 1 1968509 Thanks for the awesome responses. I tried it for the first time last night - on some baby bok choy that I unfortunately undercooked by about a minute - and wow, it totally smoothed out and enhanced the flavor. It was a stir fry, so the MSG was going into a dish that already had a good deal of soy sauce. Though I can see why one might not want to over mix the two, it was also clear that they played well together. Again, thanks for the tips. After my experience last night, it seems pretty clear that adding a little MSG can really boost a dish. With the help of these tips it should be fun to do some culinary experimenting. Tue Oct 24 14:37:35 -0700 2006 1965933 46675 Fatty Lumpkin 1 1969221 very insightful........i had no idea msg came under all those names. I must admit I was an msg-phobe only because i've always heard "it is bad for you". Obviously I have eaten it unknowingly regardless. . . . so how bad can it be. . . . I am gonna go grab a big bag of ketchup chips full of msg . . . . something I have deprived myself of for awhile . . . . simply to avoid msg . . . . maybe i'll take a bigger leap one day and start using it in my cooking. Tue Oct 24 18:22:32 -0700 2006 1965933 29331 pancake 1 2174483 This is more of a general comment re: MSG from someone who suffers severely when ingesting it as it is hidden in many ingredients. I take a lot of effort to avoid it at all costs. It can cause some to go to the emergency room - and they may NOT know why! Read this CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/diet.fitness/9907/23/msg.avoiding/index.html No, a reaction to MSG (or other additives, like nitrates/nitrites) isn't an "allergy", but it is vasoactive and it stimulates the nerves. Someone made a post here that a little pinch wouldn't cause a reaction, etc. If you haven't done any research on MSG or have any (known) reactions yourself, you should not make those kinds of statements. Although naturally occurring and not very well regulated in terms of labeling (MSG is known by many names). Please beware, not all people who suffer MSG toxicity KNOWS that is what they are reacting to. It took me over 15 YEARS to figure it out - because it is HIDDEN in so many things. If you've done the research I have on MSG you would never add it to food you eat and would probably make an effort to avoid it whenever possible. If we're looking at regulating transfats, we should also be looking at regulating MSG and other food additives. It all comes down to money, doesn't it? Happy - and Healthy - eating! Wed Jan 10 20:48:50 -0800 2007 1965933 65805 llw 2 2174642 I'm not disputing your own reaction to MSG, but it is used abundantly in many cuisines around the world. I've never seen any Japanese or Chinese reports of MSG sensitivity... Wed Jan 10 21:18:18 -0800 2007 2174483 12023 Hungry Celeste 3 2176729 I'm 1/2 Chinese, and as a kid whenever we ate Chinese takeout my tongue would swell up hugely. I was taught to believe that that was the MSG at work. I haven't gone out for cheap Chinese food in years so I can't say whether I still get that reaction. there's a chart on the wikipedia entry for MSG that lists foods that contain free and bound glutamates, its kind of interesting. Both European and Asian foods, mostly fermented ones, have a lot of free glutamates. Parmesan cheese is listed, which I find interesting because whenever I take a bite of it I get strange stinging/swelling sensations on my tongue and gums which I don't get when I eat soy sauce or miso paste. Sure, MSG is natural, or has natural counterparts. DNA and genomes are also naturally abundant, but wierd things happen to all of these things in labs, so I say let each and all choose yea or nay based on her own tastes, sensations, and knowledge. Thu Jan 11 13:38:34 -0800 2007 2174642 44696 aroques 2 2174766 Great, an 8-year-old article that proves nothing. You’re right MSG is in many foods and many times it’s “hidden” and the fact is most people have no reaction. If MSG was so toxic wouldn’t there be mass outbreaks? Could you please cite some scientifically peer reviewed articles from your extensive research proving “MSG toxicity syndrome”? If it exists, I'd love to see it. TIA. Wed Jan 10 21:39:57 -0800 2007 2174483 10195 KTinNYC 1 2174715 I tried it (Accent) - can't taste a bit of difference. Threw it away. Wed Jan 10 21:30:20 -0800 2007 1965933 14479 wayne keyser 1 2175416 MSG has gotten a bad rap because it was so overused, in large quantities, in restaurants, mainly Chinese, to cover up stale and rancid food. When I took Chinese cooking lessons, we always used it, but in very small quantities. Never more than 1/4-1/2 tsp for 8 servings. If you stick to the recommended serving size, it can enhance your dishes, and add only a small amount of sodium. Thu Jan 11 00:26:13 -0800 2007 1965933 10838 Fleur