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What I Would Change About Chowhound

w
WhereIsGoodFood Oct 16, 2006 01:05 PM

Having visited this site for the last 6 months or so I have found that I learn very little about the quality of food at a restaurant. Usually half the people will say they love the food and the other half will say they hate it. Case in point is the recent thread on Hiro Sushi. After reading all the posts I still have no idea if the place is any good. Why not have a rating system on this site? Here is what I envision:

1. I want good Sushi
2. I go to Chowhound and type in Sushi
3. I see a list of top 10 Sushi places rated by the Chowhounds
4. Ratings could be for food, ddecor, service, etc.
5. Now I can pick one and read the posts on that particular place

This site could also allow users to rate other memebers' posts. That way I can see the top rated members and I can see what they recommend.

All of this doesn't seem very difficult to implement and would be a lot better than the state of affairs on this site today where after reading fifty posts on a particular place I still have no idea if it's any good.

  1. s
    serious Oct 16, 2006 01:13 PM

    On amazon it's possible to rate reader's reviews. Some form of this might be helpful here. Also would be super if there was data base by address. Some way to search good recommendations in say, the east 40s, Manhattan.

    1. LindaWhit Oct 16, 2006 01:50 PM

      Sounds very Zagat-ish or Citysearch-like to me, which I hope to God this site does NOT turn into! A top rated member may not be a person I personally follow as they're in another part of the country, so that has the potential for being completely useless for so many others.

      Everyone's got different tastes; find members who seem to like what you like, and add them to your Tracking.

      And if half of the people like Hiro Sushi and half don't, see if those people you're tracking like it, and go there yourself. Or, perhaps just GO there and see if you like it and become one of the half that like it. Sometimes you gotta eat some worms to get to the good stuff.

      2 Replies
      1. re: LindaWhit
        MMRuth Oct 16, 2006 01:53 PM

        I agree - I often use Zagat to identify restaurants in a certain neighborhood, to get a list of ones offering a cuisine I'm interested in, to find an address/tel etc. - CH I use to see what other CHs think of those places - for good or for bad. Then I decide for myself whether to try a place. And, CHs often identify places that would have otherwise flown below my radarscreen.

        1. re: LindaWhit
          b
          bestandworst Oct 16, 2006 02:04 PM

          Yea, thats what I do too. But maybe by rating posters, they will be less likely to blow things out of proportion and take a bit more responsibility for what they write about a place...like on ebay. Perhaps it would keep people more sensible and honest.

        2. pescatarian Oct 16, 2006 02:03 PM

          I don't agree that you can't tell by reading a post like the one about Hiro Sushi whether it is good or not. The people that like it there explained why they liked it and if those are things that would appeal to you, then you should give it a try and assess it yourself. The people that didn't like it, explained why, and if those are things that would bother you based on your experience at other restaurants, then you should take that as a good indication that you wouldn't like it either.
          I think that rating other posts is too subjective. I agree with LindaWhit that if you keep track of people's posts that you like you can get a fairly good idea yourself what you would like to try.

          2 Replies
          1. re: pescatarian
            pinstripeprincess Oct 16, 2006 03:28 PM

            exactly, if people aren't telling you the information you want then you either have to further seek it out or find people for whom your opinions jive with. rating users and restaurants is highly subjective to so many things that in the end it might not be as helpful. people who do the fly by postings might heavily tilt things one way and especially with restaurants... consistency is a really big issue over short and long periods of time.

            and personally... a big tip on if the place is good or not is to not trust the opinion of a poster that only orders tempura and california rolls in a joint commended for fresh fish. especially if they've demonstrated their lack of knowledge.

            1. re: pescatarian
              Caitlin McGrath Oct 18, 2006 06:38 PM

              And Chowhound is nothing more than what we, its users, make of it - it's completely interactive. So if you read a post from someone who likes Hiro Sushi who briefly mentions something they liked that catches your eye, you should post a follow-up asking for more details. For that matter, post and say you'd like to hear from everyone in more explicit detail what they liked or didn't like about it so you can decide. A lot of posters give really fast "drive-by" posts without a lot of detail, but in my experience, if you ask for specific details about dishes or meals, you'll get much fuller responses.

              One thing that's great about regular posters on local boards who take the time to post in some detail about their eating experiences is that, as LindWhit and pescatarian have pointed out, you get to know their tastes and how they jibe with your own. With the current software, you can track posters you like if you want via your MyChow page and see what they're up to. A rating system doesn't make much sense in light of this, because each chowhound has different tastes and will therefore find the posts and preferences of others valuable to a differing degree.

            2. Seth Chadwick Oct 16, 2006 04:56 PM

              A rating system is pointless without solid controls and an unbiased audience. CH may have the first, but doesn't have the second. The audience here is decidedly biased (and for good reason).

              Forum rankings are meaningless and either lead to flame wars or ego stroking, neither of which I would welcome here at CH. There would be no way to prevent people from giving a person one star because they disagreed with them about Restaurant X or, conversely, giving a long time poster five stars just because they post "I agree!"

              A rating system serves no purpose because it is exceptionally superficial. If you doubt that, go to CitySearch and note that Denny's always has an average rating of 9.0+ out of 10.

              3 Replies
              1. re: Seth Chadwick
                spigot Oct 22, 2006 05:58 PM

                Long post - forgive me in advance.

                I agree with Seth above, and actually, that's my problem with Zagat's. Ratings systems, unless the community is deeply expert (and this is enforced in some way), inherently end up reflecting conventional wisdom. Which results in a skew towards older, famous establishments and chains, with the smaller chowhound-type "finds" getting driven out. Lots of reviewers without deep expertise IMO = the antithesis of Chowhound.

                Does anyone here use www.movielens.umn.edu ? It uses collaborative filtering to predict how much you'll like various movies, and continually "learns" what you'll like by having you rate movies you've already seen.

                The beauty of MovieLens is that the system doesn't purport to, or need to, explicitly know *why* you feel the way you do. It's just math - the aggregate of all my ratings intersects in complicated algorhythmic ways (sorry, I'm a math dope) with other people's ratings, and results in good, reliable personalized recommendations.

                I'd love to see the same principle applied to restaurant reviews. A system that would in effect be able to tell me "People who like x [in Toronto] also like y [in Oakland]" or even "People who already like x [in Toronto] really dislike the new y [also in Toronto]."

                Having said that, Chowhound does something different, and just as valuable if not more so. I love it here :-)

                1. re: spigot
                  d
                  Dave Feldman Oct 23, 2006 03:38 AM

                  I have been fascinated with collaborative filtering since its early days, with sites like firefly. I think it would work beautifully with restaurants.

                  Collaborative filtering is making a bit of a comeback, especially in so-called "discovery engines" that attempt to filter items for you to browse. Music sites like Pandora don't work quite the same way, but with similar results.

                  More than anything, collaborative filtering is fun, and the more input you have, the better. What a great database Chowhound could provide.

                  1. re: Dave Feldman
                    Peter Cuce Oct 24, 2006 06:13 PM

                    That's an interesting idea, but I think one of the great things about Chowhound is that we aren't assigning overall good/bad ratings to restaurants, necessarily, but instead saying, "This place has good fried fish, but everything else is terrible," or "The grilled meats at that Pakistani place are great, but you should go to Dimple for anything fried," etc. That would be hard to do in with collaborative filtering. The best way to experience Chowhound is to read it often, find people whose taste agrees with yours, and go with that. And do a lot of your own legwork.

              2. s
                swsidejim Oct 16, 2006 05:02 PM

                I love this site,

                but I think an ignore feature would be excellent.

                In my few weeks on here I have already encountered some folks who Id rather ignore than waste my time reading their posts, either for lack of content, lack of food knowledge, lack of common food interests, and the ones looking to argue/debate.... An ignore feature would help individuals weed out the posts ahead of time...

                just my 2 cents..

                3 Replies
                1. re: swsidejim
                  Dave MP Oct 16, 2006 07:46 PM

                  I think an ignore feature defeats the purpose of chowhound. Sometimes the people who you disagree with most, and even those who like to debate too much, are the ones who make the best finds or help you make informed decisions about where to eat. Even if they don't, it's hard to believe that any poster would be worth ignoring. What if they find an amazing new taco place the day after you start ignoring them?

                  Not worth the risk, in my opinion

                  Dave MP

                  1. re: Dave MP
                    h
                    HillJ Oct 16, 2006 08:35 PM

                    I'm still fairly new to CH, have no idea who is worth tracking or not..or any preconceived notions about opinions put forth. No need to track me, I'm still in the larva stage of foodology :)

                    I read about CH some time back, skimmed thru the original CH layout, got exhausted :) and came back because the new layout appeals to me. I don't come here for ONE opinion on ANY topic. I enjoy CH and keep returning for the overall experience, the sense of FUN that comes from good eating and great conversation about food. That is what I wouldn't change about this 'joint' - the conversation!

                    If I want a rating...I know what books to buy
                    If I want opinions, all I have to do is ask :)
                    If I feel to need to ignore a post, I move on

                    but for lively conversation about food experiences, in all outlets, I'm sticking with CH.

                    1. re: HillJ
                      MMRuth Oct 16, 2006 08:36 PM

                      Well said.

                2. s
                  S U Oct 16, 2006 07:55 PM

                  As to the ignore feature being suggested: what about all the chow novices who could learn and would benefit from everyone else's input or opinions?

                  1. s
                    swsidejim Oct 16, 2006 08:05 PM

                    To each their own regarding the ignore feature,

                    I belong to some other groups on the net, and the ignore feature comes in handy when dealing with trolls, and know-it-alls.

                    It just makes cruising the posts easier, and quicker when not having to weed through nonsense

                    4 Replies
                    1. re: swsidejim
                      Robert Lauriston Oct 16, 2006 08:24 PM

                      Chowhound's "report this post" tool serves the same end.

                      1. re: Robert Lauriston
                        krissywats Oct 17, 2006 08:47 AM

                        It really doesn't. There are several blowhards that I never saw on the old board (lot's more travelling across boards here than there was on the old board) that feel the need to get the last word always or post 15 replies to a post that only has 25 total replies or every reply is a dissertation. They aren't saying anything that can be reported specifically, but they sure are annoying and it would be great to have the option to ignore them.

                        1. re: krissywats
                          s
                          swsidejim Oct 18, 2006 01:17 PM

                          I agree, there are certain posters who continue to post the same recs over and over and over, Id love to be able to not have to read the same thing over and over and over. I dont find any posts offensive, but the ability to ignore know-it-alls, the repetitive posters, and the smart allecks would be great.

                          1. re: swsidejim
                            Robert Lauriston Oct 18, 2006 07:38 PM

                            Make yourself a mental skip subroutine triggered by keywords.

                    2. mamamia Oct 16, 2006 08:27 PM

                      I want the ability to quote posters!! Every other bulletin board type site has this feature - it can't be that hard to implement.

                      I would also like the ability to send private messages to people. Sometimes I have questions for a poster that would just seem to take up space and/or not fit the true nature of the site. PM's would be nice.

                      3 Replies
                      1. re: mamamia
                        MMRuth Oct 16, 2006 08:29 PM

                        CHs who want to be reached leave their email addresses under their profile.

                        1. re: mamamia
                          LindaWhit Oct 16, 2006 09:01 PM

                          "I want the ability to quote posters!! Every other bulletin board type site has this feature - it can't be that hard to implement."
                          _______________

                          Why not just quote the way I did above? You can separate it with a line or not.

                          1. re: LindaWhit
                            Robert Lauriston Oct 16, 2006 09:16 PM

                            I think that's preferable to the usual "quote" feature since it doesn't promote duplication.

                        2. a_and_w Oct 16, 2006 09:37 PM

                          I'm not saying it's a bad idea but rating the raters would go against the chowhound mantra. In reality, of course, we practice such discrimination all the time -- I'm much more inclined to take note of a review by a poster I recognize and trust.

                          1. Scagnetti Oct 18, 2006 08:14 PM

                            Chowhound has always prided itself as being understructured. A rating system would do no more than encourage pack mentality. We already have enough of that and it has caused some posters to lose faith in chowhound recs.

                            The mere listing of top recs will short shrift the reader from chowhound's most important asset - information. Searching "sushi" posts will engender other questions of location, decor, vibe, specialities, none of which would be represented in a list. And don't get started on "Well we could add categories to the list" because you would get NOBODY to agree on the esthetics of a restaurant. And by reading posts, it will encourage the reader to come back and report on the dining experience, an activity that continues to decline and has always been the backbone of the boards.

                            1. r
                              repete Oct 19, 2006 04:32 AM

                              Perhaps there would be a board where we could suggest "What I Would Like to Change About Chowhound" without having it deleted ....

                              Just a thought

                              1. m
                                mrothstein Oct 22, 2006 06:10 PM

                                I'd like to be able to see more threads of a board on the screen at once. The old board loaded slowly, but it was nice being able to just scroll through and see what people were posting about. Being able to see more than 40 at a time would be nice.

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