33261 Tue Dec 21 18:22:08 -0800 2004 16 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 148220 The best service I've ever had - head and shoulders above anything in SF Bay (including Gary Danko and French Laundry!) - is in, of all places, Los Angeles. The restaurant is called Bastide. More restaurateurs need to visit the place and take notes. I refuse to go to Aqua and Michael Mina simply because the service has been so bad. I'm talking perspiring waiters who never refill your water until you flag them down from across the hall. Even the best places (Gary Danko, French Laundry, La Folie) seem to be good service, not GREAT service. Anyone have exemplary service anywhere??? I'd love to give them a shot. Tue Dec 21 18:22:08 -0800 2004 0 James 1 148223 Although I'm no fan of French Laundry, the one thing I could not fault them for is service. There is only one restaurant in Paris that I think has better service than French Laundry. What is your definition of good service? What made that restaurant in LA so special? Tue Dec 21 18:33:52 -0800 2004 148220 0 Krys Stanley 2 148224 You're right. I should explain. At French Laundry, everything was done well. The server (or runner) came by whenever they needed to, explained things very well, and had a nice, professional, courteous manner. I also read the chronicle article re: Laura Cunningham's philosophy on service and how she trains her staff. I wouldn't complain, however, had i not been to Bastide, where the service follows the food courses. Here, there seem to be several senior staff members who do nothing but support the rest of the staff and ensure that even a subtle gesture of need on the part of the diner is addressed. I look up, and someone is there to come by. They also go the extra mile without needing to. I questioned the manner in which they prepared their lobster (poached in water or butter?). The waiter didn't know and went back for more information. At the end of our meal, noting that we were wondered how a dish was prepared, we were asked to visit the kitchen. Upon arriving, the entire staff stopped, turned around to address me and my guest and introduced themselves. You see? French Laundry doesn't do anything wrong. I've just been spoiled by Bastide. Note that Alain Giraud, the executive chef, recently departed. Not sure if this will affect the dining experience. Tue Dec 21 18:40:44 -0800 2004 148223 0 James 3 148254 the system of which you speak is captain and co captain, or front waiter and back waiter. at TFL there are waiters and there are runners. it would be extrememly rare for your waiter to carry food to your table. this system is in place at GD as well (and Bramercy Tavern in NYC). it is a system that few "houses" can afford, especially in SF where the cost of living is outrageously expensive and the min. wage just went up. there are many chefs in SF who work hard to trin their staff. It's rare that I have service that I would not expect; I take into consideration the "house" I am visiting. I would be an awful waiter. I think it is one of the harder jobs out there. Tue Dec 21 21:47:10 -0800 2004 148224 0 sailorbuoys 4 148329 Sailorbuoys: you're absolutely right. I salute waiters. It is one of the hardest jobs out there (next to managing a restaurant, which I did for a while at too young of an age, and nursing), and a lot of can be a real pain in the arse. I understand the difference between runners and the waitstaff. The reason why I was gushing about Bastide in LA is that they seemed to indulge their diners by overstaffing, which allowed them to spend that much more time with each diner, and seemed to put all the wait staff at ease. I felt so at ease that it seemed like a spa treatment and a meal rolled into one. In contrast, I was at Aqua a couple of years back and our server seemed to run around everywhere. He was perspiring, and struggled to get us water even though we asked several times. We joked that he must also be the runner, the sous chef, the pastry chef, and the bus boy to be so busy. But in all seriousness, the restaurant's waitstaff seemed understaffed, which trickles down to a bad experience for the diners, and eventually results in lower tips for the waiter, or worse, diners who won't return. I hoped that this was a one-time deal - perhaps some of the waiters were sick that night. But it had happened before. And then again when i went to Michael Mina's new eponymous restaurant. And it made me wonder. Wed Dec 22 13:56:58 -0800 2004 148254 0 James 5 148336 I think that everyone should have to work a service industry job at some point in their lives, for at least a year. We'd end up with a lot fewer a-holes as customers in the world. I'm not in the industry anymore, but it bugs me when people at a table over, or in front of me at the store, etc, are like that. Occasionally I speak out, but most of the time, it's easy to tell that those people have never waited on anyone else, ever. Wed Dec 22 14:15:22 -0800 2004 148329 0 Dennis S 6 148338 One of the problems is that diners take everything out on the waitstaff. Sometimes the problem is with the kitchen (timing), or something that's out of the waiter's hands. People should know when to address something with the waiter because he/she can resolve it, and when to address it with the Maitre'd or manager without throwing the waiter in front of the bus. Wed Dec 22 14:18:51 -0800 2004 148336 0 James 7 148412 Topic drift is natural, but when it happens, we ask folks to move over to another board. Since we're off the topic of chow in San Francisco, and on the general topic of waitstaff and service, please move over to the General Topics board to continue this line of discussion. Thanks! Wed Dec 22 23:31:54 -0800 2004 148338 2 The Chowhound Team 1 148305 Personally, I say service, schmervice so long as the food is good. All I ask is that the food be served in a timely fashion and they don't screw up my order. But then, I'm not trying to be Michael Bauer. Maybe the "perspiring waiters" are already running their butts off. When I was a busboy about half a century ago, it was me who filled water glasses, not the waiters/waitresses. Is this what is normal in big bucks places these days, that the waiters be water carriers on top of eveerything else they do? I bet the sommeliers don't have beaded brows, though. Wed Dec 22 12:13:27 -0800 2004 148220 0 Gary Soup 2 148334 I used to think this, but there are times when the service is as important as the food. These are romantic dinners, business dinners, anytime when the conversation is important. Good service staff knows when to intrude into the table, when to stay away, and when intruding, how to do it. If you're busy talking and clearly not ready to order or even more to stop to say that everything is fine (if you're busy talking about things other than the meal, clearly it's fine), then you don't want to stop to say this. On that note, I had a very nice experience in this way last summer at Delfina, and a poor experience at Plouf. Both experiences with the service certainly color my views of the places. Wed Dec 22 14:11:49 -0800 2004 148305 0 Dennis S 2 148403 I agree with Mr. Soup. I honestly can't recall ever visiting a restaurant where the service annoyed me enough that I would not go back. There have been many times, though, where the food was enough to put me off of a second visit. It has always seemed to me that it must be easier to hire or train a waiter than to get a truly talented chef. If the service has been less than I expect, then it is time to talk to managment. Although -- from some responses in this thread -- I see that my opinion is not universally held, it has always been sufficient for me to be treated like a valued customer; being treated like royalty has never crossed my mind. Wed Dec 22 22:12:55 -0800 2004 148305 0 Paul H 3 148410 It's not a matter of treated like royalty. I recall a thread of old wherein people asserted that it was ok to be treated like a dog (not a pampered one obviously)as long as the food was "worth" it... well, I expect good service, courtesy and respect at the very least and if you expect less, you're a glutton for **** and deserve it! Wed Dec 22 23:15:55 -0800 2004 148403 0 Sarah 1 148343 The best service I had was from a specific waiter at Belvedere (in the Peninsula Hotel) in Beverly Hills. He was 50-60 or so, so was a lifetime pro waiter and it showed. Everything was spot on, humor warmth, enthusiasm, and he also did those small extra touches that waiters forget or goes unnoticed. For example as I was trying to take off my jacket (got tangled a bit somehow) he stopped as he was carrying a tray/dishes to assist me with his free hand. And later when my gf mentioned that she wouldn't be ordering any drinks for herself, he later brought her a glass of complimentary fruit juice because he "couldn't bear to see her drinking nothing." To date, it's the only time I can remember a waiter/waitress' name. Wed Dec 22 14:42:56 -0800 2004 148220 0 Cary WUn 1 148365 mediocre service doesn't necessarily detract from good food, but great service, in my mind only enhances the dining experience. at pearls cafe in fremont there is a waiter named George. I always request to sit in his section when making reservations. why? because he is fun, knowledgeable about the food and provides excellent, non-intrusive service. He usually talks us in to one or two things we hadn't planned on ordering... (so he's good for sales) but usually the extra dishes or appetizers greatly compliment what we already ordered, etc. He also, clearly, LOVES food... and his enthusiam for it shows at each moment. which is always a joy. last time my husband ordered soup, he brought an extra spoon, just so I could taste it. because he said that even if I didn't want to order it, I shouldn't miss the experience of tasting the soup. so IMHO whether it is a $15 dollar dinner or $150, service matters. Wed Dec 22 16:09:20 -0800 2004 148220 0 megan 2 148395 In the vein of calling out great servers in this city, one of my favorites is Caleb at Chez Papa. He's very charming, professional, knows when to stay away, knows when to interrupt, knows his stuff, and his recommendations are always hits. Wed Dec 22 20:33:47 -0800 2004 148365 0 James 2 150129 Ok, so does anyone actually know what has happened to George from Pearl's Cafe in Fremont? We haven't been out in a while due to lack of compelling reason to visit any restaurants in the Big F, but we went tonite, and it turns out that George is no longer there! I am sooooo bummed. He made it the most entertaining experience even when the food was only so so. Now, he's gone, and the food is still veering toward so-so, and the service is lacking in any personality whatsoever. Anyone know what happened? Sat Jan 29 00:11:01 -0800 2005 148365 0 carol 1 148389 I seem to remember that Yank Sing on Stevenson had excellent service, but that was 2 years ago. Still, I think they set forth a standard of service that applies to all who work for them and probably continues to this day. To be honest, most places I go, "bad" (or more precisely non-caring) service seems to be the rule. Afterall, this is the town that made Sam Wo's famous. And maybe my experience rests on a wide-range of inexpensive places. Though, like a previous poster mentioned, I tend to go for the food, not the service and if it is extremely bad and I literally fear for my safety, I usually make a note of it. The last place I ate at with "bad" service was Mario's Bohemian Cigar Store. While the food was ok, the staff, consisting of Italian deadheads, slackers, and "pastafarians" were slightly too noxious for me to make a second trip, unless pressed. Wed Dec 22 19:39:35 -0800 2004 148220 0 Kevin in SF