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Viking, Themador, DCS or Blue Star, what's the best?

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chris011001 Oct 2, 2006 07:00 PM

Which 30" range should I get?
I have seen some topics, but nothing that specific.
Any help is greatly appreciated...ordering this week!

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  1. c
    Caroline RE: chris011001 Oct 2, 2006 11:55 PM

    I purchased a 30" Blue Star in July 2005 after months of research. The appliance forums on gardenweb are great -- check out www.goldshlag.com/bluestar/ for a summary of them. The thing is a monster, generating unbelievable heat, and yet the low-level burner allows me to barely warm sauces. It's terrific. My one complaint is that I had to get used to a gas oven, which takes longer to heat than my previous electric oven. However, it performs well, and the broiler is second to none.

    27 Replies
    1. re: Caroline
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      EclecticEater RE: Caroline Oct 3, 2006 02:49 AM

      I have a Blue Star and love it. It heats water in record time. The electric igniters work beauitfully. The heat in the oven is level and constant. It has a large oven. The star burners are really worth looking into, especially with the double row of gas jets to bring the heat up to 18K on two burners. What a joy to cook on a stove that responds immediately. Easy to clean up, great big sheet pan under all the burners. A big oven. The steel back against the wall and the shelf and the casters all make it a wonderful appliance. Expensive, yes, but after I read the putdowns by Consumer Reports about Wolf and the other "in between" restaurant and home kitchens, I opted for the Blue Star and have never been sorry. It even has a convection oven and a radiant burner in the broiler. The star design really gives heat out to the edges as well as the center of the pot, look at it closely and when something is boiling you can see the bubbles mirroring the star pattern of gas underneath. I've never spent so much on a stove and never enjoyed one so much as this one. I have the 36" six burner. E-Mail me for questions if you want to talk with a very satisfied owner. Website is http://www.prizer-painter.com/pages/b..., You can pester them with questions and get their specs from this site.

      1. re: EclecticEater
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        chris011001 RE: EclecticEater Oct 3, 2006 04:39 PM

        Thanks! Question: how is the actual look of the Bluestar? is the stainless nice? also, what about the baking...is that good as well? also...did you get sealed burners or not?

        1. re: chris011001
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          EclecticEater RE: chris011001 Oct 4, 2006 12:39 AM

          I think the Blue Star is very simple, in stainless very straightforward, with the steel backplate that goes above it on the wall, and the shelf. The stainless is nice but, as all stainless will, it can show scratches and spills. The baking is great; the oven, once it heats to the temperature you designate, turns the amber light off (as I recall), and it keeps a constant temperature as long as you want it. I checked it out with a separate thermometer when I first got the range. You can also use the convection oven to speed things up but have to wait ten minutes for the oven to heat up before you turn on the fan. Baked stuff comes out just fine and the inside is big with nice shelves.

          1. re: chris011001
            ted RE: chris011001 Oct 6, 2006 03:50 PM

            We have a 36" six-burner Bluestar. I think the stainless is comparable to the other brands out there. And Bluestar does not have an option for sealed burners. We don't keep ours pristine, but it's relatively simple to clean. I opted for power/function over ease of cleaning. But then I'd imagine that a real boilover on a sealed burner stove would be a serious mess.

            I haven't baked in it much so far, really just a pan of cookies, a roast chicken, and a couple of other things. Waiting for the weather to cool off. Also have a Chowpup toddler who's at the stage where she gets into everything. I'm admittedly a little nervous about running the gas oven when she's around b/c the oven front and toekick get pretty warm. She likes to turn on the fan and light, since the switches have LEDs. Figure we'll get that worked out as she starts to talk more.

          2. re: EclecticEater
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            FFH RE: EclecticEater May 19, 2007 01:06 PM

            I'm trying to choose between Blue Star, 5 Star, DCS, Viking, GE Monogram and Dacor Epicure. We want a rangetop because 2lefty cooks need the controls in front of us. Fuel will be propane. We want equal power on as many burners as possible, and high BTUs because we lose 10% to the propane conversion. Can't find a site that compares this particular group. Has anyone done a 5star cooktop with broiler below?
            We are also considering range vs cooktops. Current design of the kitchen in this new construction shows wall ovens a few steps from the cooktop, and we might like to have the broiler closer to the burners.

            1. re: EclecticEater
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              Zaminder RE: EclecticEater Dec 7, 2007 04:54 AM

              How noisy is the Blue Star fan? Does it go on whenever oven heats? Stay on after? We live in a small apartment. Thanks!

              1. re: EclecticEater
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                ninatancredi RE: EclecticEater Jan 3, 2009 04:00 PM

                Hi,

                I know it has been a while since you purchased your Bluestar range. We are currently looking to buy a range and have read the great reviews for the bluestar. I went to see one today and am a bit concerned with how easy they will clean. Do you find it difficult to maintain this range and to clean them? looking forward to hearing your response.

                1. re: ninatancredi
                  johnb RE: ninatancredi Jan 4, 2009 08:20 AM

                  I have a Bluestar (see my previous posts below). I'd say easy cleaning is not the strong suit of the range. The open burners, and the heavy cast iron grates, make for a job if you insist on doing it. I don't. The fact is that spills mostly fall down to the slide-out drip tray below and can be cleaned out (or ignored) at your convenience. The remainder that actually clings to the cast iron grates tends to burn off and become a nice patina over time. The front deck, over the knobs, is easy to clean. In sum, to me it's not a problem because I just don't find it necessary to clean the grates--they more or less take care of themselves, not unlike a cast iron skillet. But if you're a neat freak, it may not work for you.

                  1. re: ninatancredi
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                    GeezerGourmet RE: ninatancredi Jan 4, 2009 11:07 AM

                    We have a 36" Blue Star with six burners. Each burner has a cast iron grate and a cast iron bowl. We keep a tooth brush sized wire brush handy for quick cleanups of the grates. Now and then, when grates and bowls look grubby, we clean them all in the dish washer. They clean easily this way. (Just handle them carefully, don't drop them and don't scratch up the stove in the process of reinstalling them.)
                    Go Blue Star!

                    1. re: GeezerGourmet
                      johnb RE: GeezerGourmet Jan 4, 2009 03:18 PM

                      That's interesting because I've tried to dishwash mine a couple of times and it hasn't worked so hot for me. What detergent do you use, or do you have an older machine that uses lots more water--mine are the new, energy efficient types (I have 2 DW's).

                      I like the wire brush idea. May have to try that.

                      I worry more about dropping one on my foot than any damage to the stovetop!

                      1. re: johnb
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                        GeezerGourmet RE: johnb Jan 5, 2009 05:42 AM

                        We're using Cascade powder in a year-old ASKO DW.

                  2. re: EclecticEater
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                    berlyfish RE: EclecticEater Feb 27, 2010 11:24 AM

                    Your response os several years old, but it has inspired me to consider the 36" Blue Star for my remodel. Would you still recommend it? And can you tell me how long it takes the 5 cu. ft. oven to reach temo of say 350?

                    1. re: berlyfish
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                      Miketsu RE: berlyfish May 29, 2010 11:11 PM

                      We bought a 36" BlueStar range with 4 burners and a grill in 2006. We would not buy BS again. At the moment, we have ONE working burner, plus the grill and the oven. The others three burners will light, but the igniters will not stop clicking. We're still trying to find a repair person who will come out and service it. I've tried calling a local dealer, but when the guy realized we didn't buy from them, he stonewalled and wouldn't give us a name. Obviously, I'll be making more calls to other dealers and hope to find someone soon.

                      Back when we had a serious problem under warranty (the grill exploded during a dinner party--drama!), we had a horrible time getting any service out of Prizer Painter or the regional distributor that they designated for their warranty work coordination. It took them three weeks to ship us the replacement part and another 3.5 beyond that to find a local service person to install it. Trevor from Eurostoves (our dealer) had to go to bat for us with the regional distributor or it might have been even longer.

                      This difficulty in finding a repair person makes it sound like we live way out in the hinterlands, but we're on the west side of Los Angeles.

                      The huge oven is fantastic when cooking something larger (several trays of cookies or a big turkey), but it takes what feels like forever to heat up. I've timed it at about 30 minutes to get to 350. It has broken me of the frozen pizza habit, since with a 36" BS that's no longer a quick just-get-it-on-the-table dinner. Our old stove was an ancient 36" Magic Chef with a 36" oven (not a 30" oven with padding!) that came with our house and it didn't take anywhere near as long. It probably wasn't quite as big, though...I didn't measure but I'm pretty sure the BS oven is somewhat larger.

                      The burners on the BS were the big draw for us, with the large-capacity oven second. And the burners, when they work, are fabulous. When we have to go to another stove when this one dies (or more accurately, finishes dying), I will miss their super high-power and wonderful control.

                      I read things before we bought saying the BS has very sharp edges on some parts, is hard to clean, and the front of the range heats up to the point that it's dangerous for small children...all true in our experience but not a deal breaker for us. Right after I cut my fingers cleaning the grill (you have to disassemble that part completely to clean it), I was ready to ship the whole thing back, but over time I've gotten used to being careful when cleaning it and it's not such a big deal. As for cleaning the grates and stovetop, I second what johnb wrote above. And the exterior of the oven does heat up, but I didn't want to allow my young kid close enough to the oven for this to be a problem anyway.

                      Sorry for such a long post, this is my first time writing about our BS experience and I guess I tried to fit everything in. I've been meaning to write something up for quite a while not, but just hadn't made the time until now.

                      Bottom line, we would not buy Blue Star again. And if you're still considering one, get your dealer to give you the names and phone numbers of TWO repair people BEFORE you buy, so if it breaks later you at least have some options for repair.

                      1. re: Miketsu
                        ted RE: Miketsu May 30, 2010 10:42 AM

                        Your range isn't dying. It needs a new igniter module. You can buy from Prizer or be industrious and find a different supplier online (I believe the maker and part number has been mentioned on THS). You can find the PDF of the service manual for the range online to see the troubleshooting section, which will tell you that's exactly what you need.

                        As for who installs it, that's up to you. It'd take about 1.5 hours (conservative) and a Philips head screwdriver. One alternative to DIY might be to see who services Wolf in the area. The BS is built differently, but changing out the igniter module should be the same as an all-gas Wolf. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

                        1. re: ted
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                          Miketsu RE: ted May 31, 2010 01:57 AM

                          Thanks for the info, this is very helpful. I'd actually already tried calling a repairman recommended by a friend with a Wolf, but they guy wouldn't even consider touching our BS, even though this is not warranty work. Of course, that's just one guy, so I will either try DIY or find another recommendation. Probably DIY, since my spouse actually IS a rocket scientist. :-)

                          I do realize the range isn't actually dying, that was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. But this isn't the first problem we've had with it, although it's only been in service for a bit less than four years.

                          I guess my point is that the range should hold up better, and that it shouldn't be this hard to get it repaired. I think Prizer Painter and their distributors and retailers really ought to have a network of repair people to recommend and be willing to provide that information to any Blue Star owner, regardless of when or where they bought. I know Trevor at Eurostoves does, but they're all on the East Coast, which isn't useful for us. I've never had to call around like this for any other appliance unless I was looking for a better price or repair schedule. In this case, we just want someone qualified to come fix the darn thing, we're not shopping for a great deal.

                          1. re: Miketsu
                            johnb RE: Miketsu May 31, 2010 07:48 PM

                            Sorry to hear about your experiences, but Ted is fundamentally right. These things are very simple and easy to fix, certainly in comparison with the competition. If you've had trouble finding a someone who's willing to try it's probably because they assume it's complex like so many others (I've had my local gas guys fix mine and they aren't even specifically stove techs). The part is question is AFAIK not made BS specific but is a common part used by other manufacturers as well. Here's an idea--if you can get the part number, try calling around to appliance parts places. When you locate the part, ask them if they can recommend anybody who can install that part. With a bit of luck you may solve the problem that way.

                            1. re: Miketsu
                              ted RE: Miketsu Jun 1, 2010 06:28 AM

                              The service manual, IIRC, shows steps for several repairs with pictures. Reasonably sure switching out the igniter module is one. Our oven thermostat died (on Xmas!) and I had to replace it. That's the first thing to happen after 4 years. It was a pretty simple job.

                              As for the service side, maybe the should have a bigger network. But they still are a relatively tiny manufacturer compared to all the brands they get compared to. I bought my range out of CA- no local retailer carried them, and my regional distributor would only sell at MSRP (theyr'e in Tampa, wonder what their biz is like now?).

                              So, I knew what I was getting myself into in terms of support. Another idea for you might be to talk to a restaurant supply house and see who they use for service.

                              It's kinda hard to tell hyperbole vs. hysteria online. Have seen enough folks posting over the years who are ready to chuck their $5k range for something else instead of spending a couple hundred to get it fixed. And go post all over that it's the worst product in the history of humanity.

                          2. re: Miketsu
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                            michellep RE: Miketsu Sep 17, 2012 05:40 AM

                            I live about an hour and a half from Reading PA so I had the fortune to visit the Prizer Painter factory and see how the BS is manufactured last week along with a local dealer who had been wanting to take the tour. I also had the pleasure of finally witnessing the range live. As if I wasn't sold before . . . let me tell you I sure am now. I plan to buy a 48" with 6 burners and a grill for our new house currently in the the design phase. This is a VERY small factory. Many aspects of the build are done by hand in a way that truly surprised me. They have lots of big machines - of course - but there appeared to be nothing robotic anywhere. A human operator touches every part of this process. The ranges are hand-welded. The colors are so remarkably consistent because PP's parent co. is a paints and coatings mfg in the building next door. The factory is one of those ancient 4 story brick buildings and components of the range are moved vertically on a huge, very old freight elevator. They employ over a 100 real people to put out at best 30 pieces per day (piece being a stove or a hood). I saw where the day's production was staged for shipping. A woman is bubble-wrapping each piece individually in a room. The ranges are tested for leaks by a human being using a flame. The guys in the factory are pretty thoroughly engaged in their work, have been there for a long time and there is an artisan quality to the process. There is a lot of pride in the place. I recognize that when PP took over the distribution and servicing end of the business from Garland - I think in 2002 - they failed to rise to that task sufficiently. They were previously just a manufacturer of component parts for others; I think this was their first venture into distribution and the retail end of things. That is unfortunate, and I hope things have improved. Obviously, it doesn't matter one way or the other to me -- PP is so small that sometimes the plant manager who gave us the tour personally would drive out to service the range where we happen to live outside of Philly. But I will also say that I looked "under the hood" as it were and asked some questions and can see that this thing is so simple and mechanical that IMHO there is no reason to call someone to change an igniter module. Even though I live in driving range of the factory, if I needed to switch out an igniter module, I would do it myself. PP now ships the range with two extras anyway. It's so unfortunate that you had a bad experience. I know this is a good company that cares about doing things right, but I'm not really sure if even to this day their range extends far enough to be able to provide consistent service on the west coast. But I do agree with others that any competent mechanic can switch out the module with nothing more than a screwdriver. More complicated repairs are another story. Nothing in this range is complex, however. Nothing. There is not a single circuit board anywhere. (a big selling point from my POV) It is really just kind of silly that generic repair people refuse to come look at it.

                            Anyway, notwithstanding your experiences - and I am really sorry to hear of them and think that they represent the far end of the negative - I cannot WAIT to get my hands on this beast. I literally dream of owning this range. I haven't seen anything else that can touch it, but then I used to cook professionally and so this range gives me everything I need and nothing more.

                        2. re: EclecticEater
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                          katecookie RE: EclecticEater May 15, 2010 05:55 PM

                          Are you still satisfied with your Blue Star? Did you purchase the RCS or RNB? I too am concerned about Consumer Report ratings with regard to Wolf/Viking/comparable brands. I recently started reading more about Blue Star and want to make certain I am making a good choice and researching brands. Appreciate any feedback.

                        3. re: Caroline
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                          Abbo RE: Caroline Dec 20, 2009 06:14 PM

                          I bought a Blue Star based on these types of reviews (perhaps people from Blue Star writes them??) and I regret it. The range is of terrible quality. The knob for the oven has a different casing than the rest of the knobs and continuously falls off. The convection fan is so loud, that I have to kick the thing to make it stop, though that rarely works. The markings have been so lightly stamped into the metal, they are hard to decipher and the worst problem, is that whenever I turn on the oven, the house fills with the smell of gas. I have had a repairman look at it, but he has been unable to fix it, and there is no one at Blue Star, who I can contact. I have yet to find customer service except from the distributor, who oddly enough, no longer carries the Blue Star line. What a surprise. Don't buy the Blue Star, get the Viking or the Wolf instead. I sure wish I had.

                          1. re: Abbo
                            RetiredChef RE: Abbo Dec 21, 2009 06:55 AM

                            At The Garden Web - they have a bunch of BlueStar sales reps that post there pumping the product. I've lurked there for several years and have watched normal consumers get attacked and bullied off the board by the Bluestar people.

                            Personally I think BS makes the best burners out there but the rest of the product has problems as you have noted. Also many people to complain about their customer service. FWIW, Viking's too have their own problems, talk to repair people, they have a higher than average repair rate among stoves.

                            1. re: RetiredChef
                              ted RE: RetiredChef Dec 22, 2009 06:23 AM

                              Another one-post wonder and the typical RetiredChef response that takes the complaints as gospel. And it isn't enough to claim that GW is overrun by BS sales reps once in the thread- he has to do it 3 times.

                              Abbo- if you have this many problems, and your range is still under warranty, get on the phone to Prizer Painter and get them addressed.

                              http://www.bluestarcooking.com/contac...

                              Are you telling the full story? Did you buy a closeout range from one of the dealers that was either going out of biz or dropping the line?

                              The only thing stamped into the metal are marks for which knob goes to which burner. The controls on the 36" consist of 7 knobs (one per burner, one for the oven) and 2 switches (oven light, convection fan). Which is which takes about 3 uses to commit to memory.

                              If I had a range that was working this poorly, no matter the brand, I'd be all over the manufacturer to address the problems. Phone, fax, e-mail, certified letter, smoke signals.

                              I am not a Bluestar sales rep.

                              1. re: ted
                                johnb RE: ted Dec 22, 2009 07:24 AM

                                I think the claim that GW is "overrun with BS sales reps" is patently bogus. If all those BS sales reps are posting there, why not sales reps for every other brand too? And anyway, what sales rep would be dumb enough to think that posting on GW is going to be seen by so many folks in his area that it will bring him so much business that it's worth his time? I would be shocked if one person in 1000 who buys a high end range, including BS, has ever even heard of Garden Web. This is Conspiracy Theory 101 run amok. Sorry, I don't think so.

                                1. re: johnb
                                  RetiredChef RE: johnb Dec 22, 2009 08:53 AM

                                  LOL,

                                  Actually several of them very openly admit to being BS dealers and pushing their products.

                                  It’s kind of hard to have a conspiracy theory when they admit that they do it.

                                  >>> And anyway, what sales rep would be dumb enough to think that posting on GW is going to be seen by so many folks in his area that it will bring him so much business that it's worth his time?

                                  ROTFLOL, Trevor comes immediately to mind of Euro-stoves, he’ll tell you flat out that GW brings him lots of business.

                                  1. re: RetiredChef
                                    johnb RE: RetiredChef Dec 22, 2009 06:35 PM

                                    Yes but Trevor admits it and he is clearly an enthusiast as well as a salesman. That's not my point. You suggested there were sales reps doing it in an underhanded way ("pumping the product"), trying to sell goods by posing as ordinary buyers--a very different thing. That is what I'm clearly saying I doubt is happening.

                                    LOL

                                2. re: ted
                                  RetiredChef RE: ted Dec 22, 2009 09:07 AM

                                  Ted,

                                  I have always said that they make the best burners on the market, with that being said the consumers should also know the not-so good about Bluestar and how to deal with potential problems before they purchase.

                                  >>>Abbo- if you have this many problems, and your range is still under warranty, get on the phone to Prizer Painter and get them addressed.

                                  If it’s under warranty BS will refer you to a local service outlet, best to call them first.

                                  >>>If I had a range that was working this poorly, no matter the brand, I'd be all over the manufacturer to address the problems. Phone, fax, e-mail, certified letter, smoke signals.

                                  Exactly, that’s the problem that people are complaining about, BS has been unresponsive to quite a few individuals, not only individuals but speak to service repair managers, they too have problems when dealing with Bluestar,

                                  Bluestar is a small company and are experiencing some growing pains; they produce a good product but need some improvements in customer care and quality control. That’s NOT unusual at all when companies go through growing stages.

                                  To ignore these and pretend they don’t happen is foolish, it’s far better to let people know of the potential problems and then let them know it might be worth their while to buy this stove from a large volume dealer of BlueStar’s, even if out of state. These dealers have more pull and will generally stand behind your out of warranty issues and get them resolved quicker than XYZ stove company that has sold 3 Bluestars.

                                  With saying that I’ll give a pump to BlueStar Salesman Trevor who posts all the time on GW, he has gone to bat for many people to get issues resolved; he is one of the larger Bluestar dealers and ships stoves all over. It might be worth contacting him if your local people do not do much BS volume.

                                  1. re: RetiredChef
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                                    Chasman57 RE: RetiredChef Dec 28, 2009 06:17 AM

                                    We got our 36 BS this October and we LOVE it! We did have an igniter problem, but BS worked hard to solve the problem. I agree with RetiredChef that BS is working to avoid problems in service, but they have grown awfully fast. Ours was the first BS that our local repairman has serviced and he was very impressed, it is simple, rugged, easy to work on and very well built. As for the performance, it is AWESOME. The burners are uncomparable, the oven bakes wonderfully. My cousin who is a chef came over and we baked and cooked last night and she absolutely loved the range!

                          2. s
                            simsum RE: chris011001 Oct 3, 2006 01:10 AM

                            Look into the 30 inch Five Star range.

                            1. johnb RE: chris011001 Oct 3, 2006 02:30 AM

                              I had a DCS cooktop in my old place (replaced a 11 year old Thermador) and now in my new place have a Bluestar (all 36"). The Thermador was pathetic (but I don't know about newer ones). The DCS was much much better, but the Bluestar blows it away. Everything I've seen suggests the Bluestar is heads and shoulders above the others--it is a Garland for all practical purposes. Note the others have sealed burners and perhaps look a little more slick, but if it's performance you want the Bluestar is your best bet. Check the Prizer-Painter web site---they have a link to an independently written article comparing several of the top brands, and it's pretty convincing. Also check the Garden Web as a previous poster suggested.

                              1. d
                                dimples RE: chris011001 Oct 3, 2006 02:52 AM

                                I did alot of research and ended up with a Wolf. Its been fantastic. We got a $500 rebate so it ended up being a bit less expensive then the DCS. I like it better than the DCS because all 4 burners have the same amoutn of heat. The broiler on the oven is great. We like everything about it. As an earlier poster said, check out the Gardenweb website, these people are obsessed! But most of them love the Bluestar.

                                2 Replies
                                1. re: dimples
                                  johnb RE: dimples Oct 3, 2006 12:08 PM

                                  My 36" DCS cooktop had five burners of which 4 were the same size and only one, the center one, was different (and bigger). The lack of those smaller (and for me useless) burners on the DCS was one of the main reasons I was attracted to it at the time. Maybe the designs have changed since then. The Bluestar I have now does have different sizes, but even the little one puts out enough that it is a useful burner---anyway, with six of them, the stovetop provides enough firepower under any reasonable scenario.

                                  This brings up an important criterion for range/cooktop selection---burner sizes. For me, I don't see much point in having smaller burners as long as the big ones can be successfully turned down to a low level when you want to simmer etc. But this depends on your particular cooking needs and style.

                                  1. re: dimples
                                    RetiredChef RE: dimples Dec 21, 2009 06:56 AM

                                    >>> As an earlier poster said, check out the Gardenweb website, these people are obsessed! But most of them love the Bluestar.

                                    At The Garden Web - they have a bunch of BlueStar sales reps that post there pumping the product. I've lurked there for several years and have watched normal consumers get attacked and bullied off the board by the Bluestar people, that could be why you think they are obsessed and love Bluestar.

                                  2. g
                                    GeezerGourmet RE: chris011001 Oct 3, 2006 01:55 PM

                                    You should look at the 30" Dacor. Dacor is an ISO 9001 Quality Standard Certified company and makes very good ranges.

                                    4 Replies
                                    1. re: GeezerGourmet
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                                      embee RE: GeezerGourmet Oct 6, 2006 04:39 AM

                                      According to Consumer Reports, Dacor has a terrible frequency of repair record.

                                      1. re: GeezerGourmet
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                                        amoncada RE: GeezerGourmet Oct 10, 2006 07:01 PM

                                        I've had three Dacor Dual Fuel 30" ranges. My only complaint is that the cooktop igniter's work when they feel like it. They will occasionally not work for weeks at a time. This is a real pain in the neck. I'm done with Dacor Ranges. Next time I'll try the Wolf, Miele, or Blue Star range. It'll cost me though.

                                        1. re: GeezerGourmet
                                          sbp RE: GeezerGourmet Oct 11, 2006 12:10 AM

                                          I had a 30" Dacor. Had. The igniters kept breaking -- company fixed it once, then said it was out of warranty (even though it was an ongoing problem. The oven door glass broke. Company said the oven got too hot. (!??!). Broiler stopped working -- estimate to repair was $500. Goodbye Dacor.

                                          1. re: GeezerGourmet
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                                            sasquatchtwo RE: GeezerGourmet Feb 16, 2010 07:15 AM

                                            My wife and I purchased a 30" Dacor Dishwasher and a 36" Dacor Epicure gas range (with convection oven) in 2004. Immediately, I noticed that the oven was "under-heating". There is an adjustment that allows for a 35 degree +- adjustment to the thermostat, and I adjusted it the maximum (+35 degrees). At high temperatures it works adequately. At low and slow cooking (under 300 degrees) it takes forever to accomplish the task. We have also had issues with the burner ignitors, which seem to have a mind of their own... sometimes working, most times not. Contacting Dacor has simply been impossible. We got one repairman out, he was unable to determine the "error" messages he was getting on the dishwasher, spent three weeks trying to get assistance from Dacor, and was unable to do so. He finally apologized to us, and simply gave up. We have not been able to get ANY repair assistance (still under extended warranty), and have finally received a check to replace both the dishwasher and the stove, less depreciation of course. There is absolutely no way I would EVER purchase another Dacor product. There is NO support, period!

                                          2. MsDiPesto RE: chris011001 Oct 17, 2006 05:56 PM

                                            Just to note, the GE Monogram Rangetops are (or, at least up to last year when I bought mine) made by DCS (stamped on the burner parts).

                                            1. g
                                              GeezerGourmet RE: chris011001 Oct 18, 2006 05:51 PM

                                              Clearly my recommendation to look at Dacor is dated. It's sad to see a good company slip, but lots of them do.

                                              1. woodburner RE: chris011001 May 19, 2007 04:01 PM

                                                I've had the 30" all gas, self cleaning DCS for about 6 or 8 years (since it first came out) and it is superb. Sealed burners making cleaning magnificent. 5 burners, 4x15K BTU and center is 17K BTU. Plenty of heat, plus super low simmer on all 5 burners. Self cleaning works well. One of the best features are the racks that are set on rollers... in and out like a dream, which is very different than having to "muscle" old-style racks in and out. Happy camper.

                                                1 Reply
                                                1. re: woodburner
                                                  p
                                                  purplecluny RE: woodburner Jun 4, 2007 07:56 PM

                                                  Check out the Lacanche French Ranges - www.frenchranges.com
                                                  Low Tech - High Performance - the original duel fuel ovens

                                                2. r
                                                  rainey RE: chris011001 Jan 4, 2009 01:01 AM

                                                  We replaced Thermador double wall ovens and cooktop. They were awful. Constantly in need of repair. The repairs were expensive and parts seemed always to need to be ordered. When one oven worked the other one didn't -- literally, we never were able to get both of them working for holiday meals.

                                                  I'd hate to tell you about the things that we never even tried to get operational again. I'm talking basic function that we could never count on.

                                                  When we were researching new appliances, I never considered Thermador again. Wouldn't have it for free!

                                                  We ended up with a Wolf dual fuel. Love it! Although I have minor complaints. Like a digital temperature setting would be so much easier. No matter, that's minor and the solid construction double convection fans, self-opening door, grids that are fully removeable for cleaning and super low, super steady simmer are great!

                                                  We supplemented it with a KitchenAide wall oven and microwave. Basic middle of the road functional that does the job and doesn't let me down. Plus, the response for repairs and warrantee claims with KA for small appliances has always been tops.

                                                  1. j
                                                    jeffreyem RE: chris011001 Dec 21, 2009 09:27 AM

                                                    I have a 48" Bluestar cooktop only, and I love it, grates/bowls are easy to clean. It is a very utilitarian appliance. For pure cooking capability it is great and I stirfry and saute a lot.

                                                    4 Replies
                                                    1. re: jeffreyem
                                                      RetiredChef RE: jeffreyem Dec 22, 2009 09:22 AM

                                                      Ted,

                                                      I have always said that they make the best burners on the market, with that being said the consumers should also know the not-so good about Bluestar and how to deal with potential problems before they purchase.

                                                      >>>Abbo- if you have this many problems, and your range is still under warranty, get on the phone to Prizer Painter and get them addressed.

                                                      If it’s under warranty BS will refer you to a local service outlet, best to call them first.

                                                      >>>If I had a range that was working this poorly, no matter the brand, I'd be all over the manufacturer to address the problems. Phone, fax, e-mail, certified letter, smoke signals.

                                                      Exactly, that’s the problem that people are complaining about, BS has been unresponsive to quite a few individuals, not only individuals but speak to service repair managers, they too have problems when dealing with Bluestar,

                                                      Bluestar is a small company and are experiencing some growing pains; they produce a good product but need some improvements in customer care and quality control. That’s NOT unusual at all when companies go through growing stages.

                                                      To ignore these and pretend they don’t happen is foolish, it’s far better to let people know of the potential problems and then let them know it might be worth their while to buy this stove from a large volume dealer of BlueStar’s, even if out of state. These dealers have more pull and will generally stand behind your out of warranty issues and get them resolved quicker than XYZ stove company that has sold 3 Bluestars.

                                                      With saying that I’ll give a pump to BlueStar Salesman Trevor who posts all the time on GW, he has gone to bat for many people to get issues resolved; he is one of the larger Bluestar dealers and ships stoves all over. It might be worth contacting him if your local people do not do much BS volume.

                                                      every manufacturer has problems – there is no such thing as a 100% failure free product. The complaints you consistently see more than average is the lack of BS responding to out of warranty problems.

                                                      I am not a Bluestar sales rep.

                                                      I would look into this option, BlueStar burners are the best by far, don’t like their ovens so get a different set of double wall ovens.

                                                      Although I think if I was really redoing my kitchen today I would have to say I would take a serious look at an induction cooktop (sniff - I love gas, I feel defiled even saying that). Don’t know if I could give up the blue flame but they are sure nice.

                                                      1. re: RetiredChef
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                                                        eliz553 RE: RetiredChef Dec 22, 2009 09:34 AM

                                                        I keep reading good things on here about induction, but I have a couple of questions.

                                                        How do we know what the longer-term reliability of the product is going to be, by brand, available in the US? I understand that the technology is not new. But it seems to be new to certain manufacturers.

                                                        Other thing: I don't see its availability in the US (yet) as an option on a 30 inch freestanding (not slide in) range, which my kitchen is set up for.

                                                        FYI- My daughter is a culinary science student. She says her regular classrooms have professional gas ranges. But the pastry kitchen classrooms have built in ovens and a supplementary induction "hob".

                                                        1. re: eliz553
                                                          RetiredChef RE: eliz553 Dec 22, 2009 09:51 AM

                                                          Excellent questions

                                                          >>>How do we know what the longer-term reliability of the product is going to be, by brand, available in the US?

                                                          Right now we don’t and I am sure there will be some growing pains, some duds and some good ones. It’s a crapshoot.

                                                          >>>I understand that the technology is not new. But it seems to be new to certain manufacturers.

                                                          In this US it is, as you have said, I have used two different ones in the showroom (I work part-time giving cooking demonstrations for a large retailer.)

                                                          NOT AN ENDORSEMENT:

                                                          The one’s I have used are Viking’s and GE. I have not run them through their paces yet but they seemed to respond and work almost identically. Water boil times are very similar, but I have not timed them, side by side. I also cannot comment on reliability as you said they are new products, there simply is not enough out there to get a feel for endemic problems from manufacturers yet.

                                                          According to the repair reps that have been schooled in them, they think the technology is very reliable and unless there are manufacturing defects in the ‘coils’ (I think they said) these should be pretty bullet-proof, but I’ve heard that before.

                                                          >>>Other thing: I don't see its availability in the US (yet) as an option on a 30 inch freestanding (not slide in) range, which my kitchen is set up for.

                                                          NOT AN ENDORSEMENT:

                                                          Viking makes one, others might too, but I know about this one.

                                                          http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/a...
                                                          http://www.us-appliance.com/visc5304b...

                                                          NOTE: I do NOT work for US Appliance; just put that link up so you could see a price.

                                                          I’ve got to, I think the Natural Gas god is going to strike me down.

                                                          1. re: RetiredChef
                                                            e
                                                            eliz553 RE: RetiredChef Dec 22, 2009 07:29 PM

                                                            Thanks for the informative reply. Much appreciated.

                                                    2. s
                                                      Sinokula RE: chris011001 Jan 22, 2011 09:42 AM

                                                      I'm celebrating my first year anniversary withmy Blue Star Range. I bought a 30" model in early 2010 with a plain-jane stainless exterior and I couldn't love it more. This is a piece of equipment for a cook or chef. No bells, no whistles, no clocks that will stop working within a few months as every other stove I have ever owned--just purely utilitarian.

                                                      Within hours of the moment my range arrived, I had it installed and working--did it myself. It wasn't a difficult task, took two hours at most. The most difficult part was lifting the heavy sucker up a few small stairs into the kitchen--after having taken it off the pallet, out of the box, and disassembled any of the cast iron that are separate pieces. I'm not a plumber, pipe fitter or electrician, but trading out my old stove for the Blue Star is easy--Unscrew the old gas fittings and replace with new, plug it in, level the feet and slide it in. Presto!

                                                      The Blue Star is one of the best pieces of equipment that I have ever purchased. Never a single problem with it. If you want beauty, sleekness or buttons, this isn't the stove for you. But if your serious about cooking and frequently bang around big commercial pots and heavy cast iron pans, the seemingly indestructable Blue Star is for you. The cast iron burner tops are solid, heavy duty and take a beating. When they get a bit grundgy, put them through the dishwasher and they're like new. The whole thing is super easy to take apart, clean, and re-assemble.

                                                      It does get hot, but with those BTUs that's to be expected. I've been around the food service, catering, and restaurant business for many years and the Blue Star is the best. My catering and restaurant pals are all jealous!

                                                      The burners work great and the enormous oven is fantastic. The broiler is also super hot and incredibly useful--turn that puppy on and it's like a salamander at your ready. Because of the power in this thing, it does take some getting used to. Medium high on an average burner top is not the same thing on this machine--it's like jumping out of a Prius and into a Formula 1 car.

                                                      Bottom line: If cooking is a big part of your life and you demand power and sturdiness, Blue Star is for you.

                                                      And as a final note, I am not associated with Blue Star, am not a salesman, distributor, retailer or have anything whatsoever to do with selling appliances of any kind!

                                                      1. e
                                                        esandyg RE: chris011001 Sep 24, 2012 01:38 PM

                                                        This is a no-brainer. I have been cooking for over 40 years and now write cookbooks and recipes. I have a baby Bluestar (24") and it is superfabulous down to the red enamel front. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR ANY PRODUCT LABELED VIKING. I've dealt with all sorts of brands over the years and made the horrid mistake of buying an expensive Viking several years back. It was defective from the get-go--and you can read the same complaints all over earlier Chowhound Boards about its dangerously faulty electronics--but Viking would never acknowledge it. The poor dealer had to try six times to replace the defective parts which posed a serious danger of fire but the stove never worked. I just had to pay my own good money to replace it. Viking will never acknowledge it's fraud. It is a company of no integrity, no decency and no product you should buy. Please please know this.

                                                        I also did quick research on the DCS when I had to replace the Viking. Apparently it was a bad company until it was sold and now is trying to make a comeback. Having myself been spooked by Viking I stayed away from it.

                                                        Go for Bluestar, WolF of Thermador.

                                                        1 Reply
                                                        1. re: esandyg
                                                          woodburner RE: esandyg Sep 26, 2012 01:17 PM

                                                          I had a great experience with my DCS 30 in. 5 burner... self clean gas. Bought before being sold to F&P. Realy solid, powerful, loved the sealed burners for cleaning. After my divorce, went with a Capital (started up by the DCS guys, I'm told). Just as great, IMO. Same configuration. Improved design of the sealed burners and the easy-slide racks (on casters). I love those. One finger movement on those shelves. But everyone loves Blue Star.....

                                                        2. m
                                                          mmck RE: chris011001 Sep 24, 2012 01:46 PM

                                                          I got a viking cooktop about 5 years ago. The stainless top and knobs started rusting almost right away. They replaced the items, but would not install them, I had to do it at my own expense. When I talked to a service rep to complain, she said no deal. I asked to speak to a supervisor, after the service rep talked with the supervisor, I was told that the supervisor would not even talk to me. I paid to have the new stainless installed, it rusted also. Way to go service and quality. Remember how Harley Davidson almost went belly up because ofthe same problems with quality and service

                                                          1. j
                                                            JUST A TASTE RE: chris011001 Jan 8, 2014 04:22 PM

                                                            I also have to vent about my DCS stove. I've had so many problems with my oven that the company i replaced it. That was back in 2004. I've had at least 7 repairs with my new stove, which is old now. The lastest problem is my oven goes to 700 degrees at any set temp. I also always have problems with the burners lighting, they are also replacing one of them. Racks that don't come out smooth, broiler replaced. Now the heat sheild melted so that also has to be replaced. This repair is approx. $700.00. I have sent them all my receipts but are missing a few receipts, of course the up to date ones I can't find and the appliance repair store only keeps records up to a year. So my advice, DON'T BUY A DCS STOVE. This review will save you headaches.

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