330355 Sun Oct 01 01:55:34 -0700 2006 19 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1914022 Looking up for information on a different Cuban dish, I came across this information about the history of Chinese food in Cuba. http://www.agentofchaos.com/ic/cuban.html Further Googling turned up that many Cuban Chinese migrated to NY and there were some Cuban Chinese restaurants that seem to be phasing out as the generation dies out. From my understanding, there is no fusion, just restaaurants that have a Cuban menu and a Chinese menu. Here's a little of a recent discussion on the NY board. http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/322895#1851403 In the Chowhound link, there was also a link to a good article http://www.gothamgazette.com/citizen/jun03/original_cuban_chinese.shtml Sun Oct 01 01:55:34 -0700 2006 10264 rworange 1 1915384 Fusion no, but the Cuban was filtered through a different sensibility (like Straits Chinese food or particularly ethnic Chinese Vietnamese food). For that matter, I guess the Chinese was filtered too, but through a typically Europeanized/Americanized one - nothing special there, in concept if not occasionally in execution, anyway. But these places were always way more latino than chino - the Chinese owners/workers spoke (native) Spanish (and their kids speak about as well as immigrant latinos' kids), people (men mostly) used them as neighborhood coffee shops (and a few older guys still do.) So yeah, a very interesting phenomenon, but really, all but completely historical at this point. That original generation retired a while ago, and even most of their middle-aged children left a long time ago, as rents rose, their customers moved on and the neighborhoods changed dramatically around them. As a collective group, they didn't really survive the 80s. The few left being run by the youngest generation are just kind of imitating themselves at this point and the results usually aren't very pretty. :( Mon Oct 02 01:17:05 -0700 2006 1914022 11980 MikeG 1 1916025 Mike, I remember places in NY like Mi Chinita being trilingual - the staff spoke Cantonese with each other, Spanish with the Latino customers, and English with me. http://petercherches.blogspot.com Mon Oct 02 14:29:32 -0700 2006 1914022 10736 Peter Cherches 1 1916459 Oh, yeah, I meant that the Spanish they spoke was native, presumably learned in some sort of school as well as spoken in society at large, if not perhaps with their grandparents at home. Much the way it goes with Chinese immigrants here, with English instead of Spanish. By the time I was around and paying attention, the original guys were already well into late middle-age, and their Spanish was definitely better than their English! Mon Oct 02 17:08:17 -0700 2006 1914022 11980 MikeG 1 1916470 I've heard that the "chinas comidas" places that used to be common in parts of New York are extinct. Mon Oct 02 17:11:47 -0700 2006 1914022 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 1916493 In the chowhound link in the OP, there's mention of a few. Mon Oct 02 17:21:08 -0700 2006 1916470 10264 rworange 1 1916600 I never once tried Chinese food at any of those places. One of the survivors, Nueva Rampa, is across the street from where I'm taking classes, so I'll give it a try. In the old days (the 70s for me) the two best I knew were Mi Chinita & Asia de Cuba, both on 8th Ave. in Chelsea, but there was also a great one on 8th Ave. around 55th (replaced by an office building); I think it had Castillo in the name. Mon Oct 02 17:57:39 -0700 2006 1914022 10736 Peter Cherches 2 1916911 Mid-70s there was a chain of these places, Asia de Cuba, Victoria de Cuba, etc. - I remember best one in Jackson Heights and one on 8th in the 50s - used to go to that one a lot. there were a string of lesser places up and down the UWS - of which my favorite was Tacita d'Oro, which I believe is still there on broadway, nr 100 St. La Rampa on 14th St (still there I believe?) was another place we went for a basic fix. These were primarily chinese cooks cooking hispanic food for a hispanic audience (my surmise is that the chinese are innovators in many countries they arrive in, bring in a restaurant culture and rapidly adjusting to the local foods and tastes) I always ordered hispanic food in these places - ropa vieja, chicharrones de pollo (the nice juicey dark meat kind with bone, please), squid%rice, masitas fritas - fried pork chunks,, sweet plantains and the great weekend special, the roast pork with garlic sauce, yuca and arroz moros y christianos and, in some places, the "sopa china especial" like a wonton soup with beansprouts, pork and a poached egg. Even though the food was hispanic, we have always felt that it was filtered through a chinese sensibility - dishes like ropa vieja, too, are more like stir fries. Since the Chinese diaspora was not limited to Cuba, there should in theory continue to be this general type or restaurant popping up, as Chinese entrepreneurs follow their immigrant clientele. One of the best places of this type I remember was dominican-chinese - spicier than the cuban variety. As I may have mentioned before, there are several "comidas chinas" places on 5th Ave in sunset park - a version of this cooking might still be sampled there. Mon Oct 02 19:37:52 -0700 2006 1916600 11130 jen kalb 3 1916951 Jen, I'd be interested to find a Trinidadian-Chinese place if one exists. I loved the curried fried rice I had at a place in Port of Spain. Mon Oct 02 19:50:17 -0700 2006 1916911 10736 Peter Cherches 4 1917314 I believe there's one over on Flatbush Ave. near Erasmus Hall and the old Loew's theatre. In Woodside there's a strange little Chinese BBQ place with a Spanish speaking Chinese staff and a few Peruvian dishes on the menu. Mon Oct 02 21:34:31 -0700 2006 1916951 13481 Woodside Al 5 1917386 Peruvian Chinese is something else again. Chinese food somehow was a better "fit" with Peruvian than with Cuban and the two blended more than Chinese food did with Cuban. Lomo saltado, which is almost Peru's National dish, is considered by many to be a Chinese invention. Mon Oct 02 21:51:10 -0700 2006 1917314 10255 Gary Soup 6 1919248 Chinese food in Peru is good (and a good fit as you say), atrocious in Colombia. Tue Oct 03 17:17:29 -0700 2006 1917386 36661 Sam Fujisaka 1 1916772 Yes, "comidas chinas y latinas" is all but, but not 100%, a thing of the past. It got too depressing, trying all of them looking for the sort of thing I remembered, but there may still good comidas latinas anyway, somewhere out there. I think the comidas chinas is probably about as good as you expect from deep-fried wings places uptown - truly scary. I graduated from HS in the late 70s, so I only caught the latter part of the act when I was paying any real attention but the ones I knew (though no longer by name) were the ones on Broadway in the upper 90s, but they stretch from about 86th St. almost up to Columbia, on Broadway and Amsterdam, not so much on Columbus. They were once about as ubiquitous there as Starbucks is now.;) Mon Oct 02 18:48:46 -0700 2006 1914022 11980 MikeG 1 1916784 No, _started_ HS... Mon Oct 02 18:52:55 -0700 2006 1914022 11980 MikeG 1 1916849 I'm told that Le Carridad on Broadway near Zabar's is still going strong. I used to eat Cuban-Chinese there in the 80's and my impression was that there was some Chinese influence to their Cuban specialties. They were good enough that I never went looking anywhere else for Cuban-Chinese. I would have to say that I preferred it to Victor's on Columbus. Mon Oct 02 19:15:12 -0700 2006 1914022 13192 chocolatetartguy 1 1916866 So, uh, I suppose Asia de Cuba in SF, didn't take its inspiration from these restaurants ... http://www.chinagrillmanagement.com/adecSF/main.cfm Mon Oct 02 19:22:16 -0700 2006 1914022 10264 rworange 1 1916970 The New York Cuban Chinese seem to be slowly disappearing. Based on my experience with the food at la Caridad, there probably isn't much reason to lament its demise other than nostalgia. According to Cheuk Kwan's flim "On the Islands" (part of a series on Chinese Restaurants in the diaspora) it has completely disappeared from Cuba itself, unlike Trinidad where Trinidad-Chinese food is still thriving. Mon Oct 02 19:54:11 -0700 2006 1914022 10255 Gary Soup 2 1917775 Thanks for the spelling correction. I googled La Caridad and it seems to be one of those places that you either love or hate, like Saigon Sandwich Shop or Tu Lan. I returned to La Caridad on multiple NYC visits into the early 90's and thoroughly enjoyed the roast pork, black beans, plantanos and sliced avocado. I still remember what I had after almost fifteen years. Tue Oct 03 00:10:59 -0700 2006 1916970 13192 chocolatetartguy 3 1917867 I was talking about the Chinese side of the menu, not the Cuban side. I like both Saigon Sandwich and Tu Lan, BTW. And I wasn't aware that I had corrected anybody's spelling.... Tue Oct 03 00:45:32 -0700 2006 1917775 10255 Gary Soup 4 1917977 I never tried the Chinese side. You spelled La Caridad correctly. I really meant thank you for getting it right because I remembered it incorrectly. Tue Oct 03 01:25:52 -0700 2006 1917867 13192 chocolatetartguy