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"Polynesian" style Chinese restaurants

Hi all! I'm looking for some verification that I am not crazy down here in Florida! My husband and I are both originally from New Hampshire (Nashua) and we were just talking about the Chinese restaurants up there. Chinese food in Florida IS NOT THE SAME! Specifially, the egg rolls. Here they are filled with chunky pieces of cabbage and carrots and sometimes have a tiny shrimp stuffed in there. But up in Nashua the food was more of a Hawaiian or Polynesian kind - the egg rolls were filled with something chopped and shredded very fine. I don't know if any of the restaurants we used to go to are still there -- The Kahala, Haluwa, and Singapore??

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?! And, even better, would anyone happen to have any kind of recipe for those egg rolls?! I would LOVE to have it!!

Thanks for any insight ;-)

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  1. You're not crazy. I think the Polynesian – Chinese thing is unique to New Hampshire and Massachusetts. Rhode Island not so much (anymore) and Maine not at all. I cannot comment on the places you mention but the most famous of this genre is a place in Saugus, MA called Kowloon. It’s grand (huge). A lot of the places in MA have gone down in quality and focus more on strong drinks and Keno (which I’ve heard referred to as “Tiki Bingo.” The more Scorpion/Volcano bowls one consumes the more bold one becomes as it were.)

    Nor can I comment on a specific egg roll recipe, but I can venture a guess that you will not find a lot of menus serving “American Chop Suey” down in Florida.

    8 Replies
    1. re: bewley

      Thank you!! I have the hardest time trying to describe the food to people down here! No "American Chop Suey" on the menus, but ironically, we have a local guy who carves tiki totems out of palm tree trunks! I think we have the "atmosphere" mastered, although I can't say I've seen any flaming volcanoe drinks in coconut bowls recently!

      Toooo bad ;-(

      1. re: bewley

        there's also the hukelau in chicopee, which even still does the cheesy hawaiian floor show thing.


        i have not been there in many, many years though. i'll admit i have a nostalgic soft spot for this kind of chinese-american food, though, as inauthentic and generally low quality as it tends to be.

        1. re: passing thru

          That looks very similar to a place in Lynnfield, MA called “Bali Hai.” You can see it while driving north on I-95, on the left just before the 95-128 split. We enjoyed the food and the bartender, who, I think may actually have been from the Pacific Islands, made the most potent drinks. (After only two we were out-the-door.) No floor show however, which makes your recommendation more special, though we would have seen it in double if there was one. We’ll have to check that out.


          1. re: bewley

            Update on the Bali Hai. The govt has installed a noise barrier on that stretch of 128 and you can no longer see the restaurant as you pass by.

          2. re: passing thru

            Oh the Hukelau! When I was growing up we BEGGED to go to this place. No floor show at the time, but had a bridge over a goldfish pond that we threw pennies in. Shirley Temples and the sterno gently glowing under the PU-PU platter- good times, good times.

          3. re: bewley

            I am from up in Mass also, Newburyport. If here is a good Chinese restaurant in the southwestern part of Florida that knows how to cook good ole Boston/New England Style Chinese Chop Suey I haven't found it in my over 30 years of being here. It's really a simple receipe, my Mother use to make it all of the time when I was a youngster. We use to get a flank steak and have it sliced as thin as possible, cooked very slowly in a frying pan with some butter and a little water. Not to let it burn, cook until very tender. Chop some celery in small pieces, mushrooms, lots of finely chopped onions, and cook with the beef slowly. Stir his a lot so that it wont dry out, add water occastionally. Wash and steam brussle sprouts until nice and soft. Mix this all together, add some soy sauce to your taste, and let it thicken. This is where I am loss I can remember if my Mom used baking soda or white flour to thicken the suey. She would also chop up chessnuts and boil them until tender, adding them to the mixture for flavor. With a nice bowl of white rice or mashed potatoes I was in heaven. I remember her saying the longer you cook it adding a little choy sauce now and then will really make the flavor come to the top. I don't think I left anyhing out.

            1. re: bewley

              Portland/Westbrook Maine USED to have the Polynesian style Chinese. Hu Ke Lau, The Polynesian Village and I think maybe the Hawaiin Hut would also fit the bill.

              1. re: soxlover

                I think there was a HuKeJau at OOB too.

            2. I asked my husband about these places (he's from Nashua, too). He says the Kahala and Singapore are long gone, but Haluwa is still there.

              2 Replies
              1. re: Roundelay

                OHHHHHHH!!! You guys are KILLIN' ME!! The sterno and the PU PU platter - funny! We have Bo Bo platters here in FL. They are sorta the same - teriyaki on a stick, spare ribs, a couple of crab rangoon wantons - if you're lucky - otherwise you get some kind of really weird looking "shrimp toast", and of course, the chunky cabbage egg rolls.

                And we seem to have a lot of mongolian buffet chinese restaurants and those "hole-in-the-wall, order by number take-out" places in the strip malls. There really aren't any old-fashioned, sit down on a plastic covered chair with the zodiac placemats under the glass tabletop places either. Come to think of it, I don't think I've had my fried rice served to me in the big silver dish with the dome cover since I moved here!

                Oh well - I haven't been back to Nashua in about 20 yrs. I imagine a lot of things I remember are gone now.

                1. re: Roundelay

                  Sorry to say say, Al locked the doors at Kahala for the last time a couple of weeks ago.

                2. I laughed out loud when I read your post as my wife and I had the exact same feeling about Florida Chinese when we lived there for one year after we got married in 1980. The rice was yellow with peas of all things. The eggrolls were awful and the Lobster sauce was white or yellow depending where you got it. My benchmark has always been the Aku Aku in Cambridge so I know what you mean. Funny, but anytime a friend or family member visits me from Florida they ALWAYS want, in order, Chinese, fried clams, and Pizza.

                  1. Hey Babe...I got a kick out of your remembering all the old "haunts" I used to go to the Singapore a couple of nights a week. I then moved to CA and wondered where all the good food went. CA's chinese is totally different, took a little getting used to, but somethings I actually got to liking and I miss them, now that I'm back here in NE. I have heard that the "Lilac Blossom" in Nashua is absolutely the best in the area now. Anyone been there lately?

                    5 Replies
                    1. re: othervoice

                      Oh yes - fried clams and pizza! Thanks for reminding me!! Let's see, do you all prefer the rubbery strips or the big fat ones with the bellies?! We have quite a few decent seafood places here, but I can't say I've been to any comparable to, say, Markies (?? not sure about the name) in the Hampton Beach area? Pizza - eh .... Bizzarro is the best around the Melbourne area. They are genuine Italian guys and make a nice thin crust that you can fold up and eat a slice nicely. I guess I just don't consider Dominoes and Pizza Hut to be "Pizza joints". Gotta be the neighborhood pizzeria. I think what we need in this town is a Chinatown and a Little Italy!!

                      I've never been to CA, but my husband did live in San Bernadino for a while back in the 80's. I'll have to ask him about the food out there ...

                      1. re: BabyBee

                        When I was growing up, we'd go to South Pacific, in Newton. Every so often, as a special treat, my parents would order the pu-pu platter.

                        American Chinese food must be very regional. When I moved from Boston to NYC, I was shocked to find that the fried rice was very light in color and had peas (darker, no peas in Boston), the fried noodle were wide in NYC (like fried fettucine), not skinny (like fried spaghetti) as in Boston and a few other things I don't remember.

                        1. re: marcia2

                          Lobster sauce is dark brown in Boston, pale in NY.

                          1. re: GaryLovesFood

                            Every sauce at Chinese restaurants I've been to in the area has been dark brown - and all taste the same. ;-)

                            And I miss the smoky wok flavored yellow fried rice (with peas, carrots, onions, and meat of your choice) that I cut my Chinese food teeth on in NY.

                      2. re: othervoice

                        Lilac Blossom is very nice, but cannot hold a candle to Chen Yang Li which is a couple miles east on the same road. I know it closed for about a year adn changed hands, but it is back in business. The Li in Bedford is also stellar.

                        (in reply to original post)
                        As for the "old school haunts" that had sterno roaring in the pupu platters, the Zodiac placements under the plastic tablecloths... and the most INCREDIBLE eggs rolls on earth were at a small but very good restaurant called Fung Wong in Clinton Ma on the Lancaster border on Main St. I still miss those incredible egg rolls!

                      3. Fall River, MA had The China Royal...complete with dancers and music . It was originally supermarket, converted to a Polynesian restaurant and now it is........gone and in it's place??? CVS...ahhh

                        1. I'm from Nahua as well and I remember all of those great places and I miss New England chinese food so much. I found your blog by looking for recipes for Lobster sauce, fried rice, chicken fingers and duck sauce. I was in Florida for a few years and now I am in Texas and the Chinese food is terrible. I am a true New Englander and I mentioned to someone just yesterday how much I missed fried clams (with belly), good pizza and chinese food, there is no place in America like the Boston area.

                          1. The Honolulu in Westboro is now gone as well. Classic bad tiki joint. Big drinks served in bowls. AAnd what was with the french bread they gave you when you ordered? We wnet only a few times each year when i was a kid. Great place. Great memories.

                            1 Reply
                            1. re: Westy

                              Yes, the Honolulu was classic Polynesian-Chinese! I grew up in Westboro and went there regularly with my family. The highlight as a kid was the decor, walking in and across the little bridge over the water. I live in Seattle now and a friend who also grew up in MA laments the lack of good Chinese food in Seattle. It's baffling because the Chinese here seems way more authentic than what I grew up with. Maybe he misses the Polynesian aspect...

                            2. Just wondering if you ever came close to duplicating the type of egg roll we used to get in New Hampshire. I too live in Florida now and am craving a decent egg roll that's dark and crunchy on the inside - not mushy chop suey. I would love to know the ingredients.

                              2 Replies
                              1. re: cas430

                                Bob Loo's in Salem NH is missed. Beef and Mushroom Chow Yoke or the "Brown" Lobstrer Sauce...Memories

                                1. re: gdistefano

                                  Oh wow - I'm getting hungry. Are there any good Chinese restaurants - Plynesian ones - in Rhode Island? When I was younger we would go to "House of Moy" in North Providence, and "Rickshaw" in Riverside. "House of Moy" is long gone, as is 'Rickshaw' (been to the 'new place' in the old Rickshaw lication and it wasn't good). For a while I was also going to Fortuna near Charles St. on the Providence line, but that closed last year.

                                  Any suggestions?

                              2. BabyBee, I also am from Newburyport, and I have been in Florida over 35 years, and I am still looking for our type of New England Chop Suey. My wife cooks a very close call using all the same ingredients we look for, it is very good, but not identical. Still looking, and hope to find one someday.As far as spring rolls there is a little take out place in St Pete that has VG spring rolls, but they are not the same as home.

                                1. I too, like Polynesian.Bob Loo's in Salem was very good.There was a place on route 101 in Portsmouth N,H. that was very good.The Kai Lau in North Attleboro Mass was good but they closed.Right now I go to the Mon Kua in South Attleboro Mass.(Washington St.,just over the R.I. border).

                                  1. What a wonderful thread! I'm in the Chinese restaurant business and can tell the OP (and others) that the deal with the egg rolls we all loved from childhood is that they were *fresh.* Nowadays, a lot of places par-fry them after rolling 'em and then freeze them. This ruins the wrapper and renders the filling into unidentifiable mush.

                                    The fine shreds the OP is looking for are essential to a proper egg roll. The cabbage and other veggies (celery is a now often-forgotten ingredient) are cut fine and then marinated in salt and rice wine vinegar. The juice must be pushed out under pressure. Ground pork (sauteed and colored with some red food coloring) is then added.

                                    Speaking of mushy filling -- another thing Chinese restaurants have taken to doing is buying the egg roll filling pre-prepared. This is not good. The little mom-and-pop take-out joints have started to rely on this stuff.

                                    Hey, I remember when Polynesian-style Chinese places were a dime a dozen. The cuisine wasn't "authentic" anything -- but oh, so good.

                                    2 Replies
                                    1. re: shaogo

                                      Shaogo...I agree that is why the egg rolls get mushy insides. But tell me is it the same wrapper as a wonton or dumpling?

                                      One of my favorites that is rarely made is Cantonese Dumplings....these are your basic shrimp/pork/spinach wonton, fried like a dumpling and dipped in ginger sauce.

                                      1. re: AriAnnis

                                        Wrapper is similar to a wonton wrapper, only much larger (about 8" square).

                                        I love the Cantonese-style dumplings with spinach (I think they use an Asian green, sometimes mustard greens) and shrimp and pork. We get 'em in NYC and Flushing, NY.

                                    2. Hi BabyBee

                                      I just came across this while I was doing a search. Thank you very much for your kind words. My name is Wayne Louis and my family owned the Kahala in Nashua.

                                      There is a lot that goes into making an egg roll, but if you would like the recipe, I may be able to dig it out. It may not turn out the same as the restaurant though as the type of skin used is very important and I have not been able to match the type used at the restaurant.

                                      Email me at wplouis@msn.com if you still want the recipe and I will give it to you.

                                      1. Oh my goodness! I am so happy to hear about all the great memories you all have!! It's really nice to connect with people who understand what I'm talking about!! Wayne - I am on my way to email you right now! Thank you!

                                        1. Ok, i know this trail started years ago, but it looks like some conversation is still happening!

                                          I grew up going to Bob Loo's as a child (my stepfather actually named a racehorse after the bartender Michael's Mai Tai!), and my mom has been fondly remembering the little sesame coated chewy snacks that they served at the end of the meal along with the fortune cookies - if i remember correctly, they were like little squishy cubes cubes. Does anyone have any idea what these were called or how to make them???

                                          I've been searching all over the Internet for soft sesame candies chinese, or sesame cookies to no avail! Maybe it's the polynesian influence??

                                          3 Replies
                                          1. re: sharoncamara

                                            Is there anything similar or comparable in to Bob Loo's in Southern NH today? I too am from the RI area and miss the Polynesian style Chinese joints. Would love to find one close to home!

                                            1. re: snl1129

                                              I think the Pago Pago in Milford is still open, although the last time I ate there was probably in '84! I used to love the flaming Pu Pu platters as a kid.

                                              1. re: snl1129

                                                Bob Loo's was good for chinese....Lobster Claw for seafood, just down the street in Derry.....magnifique!!!!

                                            2. OMG! I loved this really fun tacky "Polynesian" place we used to go to in Sturbridge, MA. It's still there (on the road to Southbridge?)! I loved their drinks- BIG, colorful and tacky! Also this thing called a "PuPu Platter" of little appetizers.

                                              Recently, there was an ad for some kind of stomach acid reducer and the characters are at a Polynesian style buffet place- loved the decorations in the background and the luau music-funny w/o trying to be.

                                              1. Bob loo's in Salem NH is ok, Kowloon in Saugus Mass is good, Hawaiian Isle in Plaistow NH is great but the absolute best is Oriental Gardens in Haverhill, Mass. They have the awesome eggrolls that everyone is looking for. Tons of chopped veggies, shredded pork & deep fried to a dark golden brown. I loved cutting into them, seeing the deep greens of the spinach & the dark red from the roasted pork. I make 3-4 trips "home" each year & make the rounds between chinese, pizza & seafood. I return to LA smiling...10 lbs heavier & laden with AH-SO red & duck sauce, Salada teabags, Fluff & yankee doodles.

                                                2 Replies
                                                1. re: bostonsunshine

                                                  Salada tea bags are rare in CA? Who knew!

                                                  1. re: bostonsunshine

                                                    man, coming across this thread really makes me miss home. i now live north of Seattle, but i grew up in Lynn, MA and among my favorites were Kowloon in saugus, Weylu's (in its short life) Ha Lin in downtown Lynn. everyone on the west coast thinks im nuts when i say that EVERYTHING is different on the east coast, chinese food especially...i ordered lobster sauce at a local chinese place and got this pale white substance with lots of chunks in it...nobody has ever heard of duck sauce, "egg rolls" are all just really spring rolls here...i really miss the food back home, and when i was able to first take my wife back east and took her to kowloon...she was amazed at how different and TASTY our chinese really was...we go everytime now haha...i am kinda happy to know that im not the only one that misses great boston food hehe. i too am trying to find great recipes to have for cooking at home here for the family, especially kowloons egg rolls...it seems the celery and pork is the closest thing to go on, so ill have to give this a try! thanks everybody for all the great tips, along with the flash flood of memories. my next trip home has to be soon...and my mother is long since due to ship me out a few tubs of FLUFF!!!

                                                  2. I'd give anything for the recipes to make the fried rice, egg rolls, etc. from Polynesian Chinese restaurants like the Kowloon. I've been searching for them for years but nobody can tell me how to make them at home. HELP!!! HELP!!! HELP!!! If anyone does find the recipes, please share!!!!

                                                    1 Reply
                                                    1. re: Reneeg37

                                                      For fried rice check this website, http://thenewartofbaking.blogspot.com... and you can buy it from amazon.com, http://www.amazon.com/Pearl-Bridge-Mu.... I enjoyed this blog very much.

                                                    2. I lived in FLA for 5 years and they do NOT have the same Chinese food there. As a matter of fact I find it hard to find the style of Chinese in New England anywhere I have been in the US. I grew up in Lawrence and we had to drive to Salem NH to Bob Loo's. Chinese was Polynesian that is why we go to Hawian Isle in Plaistow, NH.

                                                      1. Thanks to all for the walk down memory lane. I too am originally from Mass and was searching for a "chicken finger" batter recipe.

                                                        Lived a couple towns over from the Kowloon. That was a real hoot to go there. They had a room with a tropical paradise painted on all four walls, and a section of seating set within a mock up of a sailboat, complete with mast and rigging. I also recall there where small lights in pale blue to black ceiling, to suggest the night sky. Heck of a place.

                                                        Some other places were: Weylu's - a bunch of those (including the huge one on the hill in Saugus), the Five Kitchens in Boston's China Town (with whole Peking ducks hanging behind the glass), the Imperial Jade Garden in Wakefield (a hole in the wall but quintessential NE chinese/Polynesian food).

                                                        This thread brought back some great memories. Thank you!

                                                        1. Don't forget the China Dragon that used to be on old Rte. 3 in Hookset NH. The best of the best.

                                                          2 Replies
                                                          1. re: rcdelude

                                                            Oh my god, I haven't thought of the China Dragon in years! I can picture the place with the ramp and pond on the way in! Too funny! I so miss NH chinese food, it is truely awful in NC.

                                                            1. re: JoNHNC

                                                              My husband and I just celebrated our 25th anniversary; our first date was at China Dragon!

                                                          2. Singapore is still going strong. Haluwa I think is still open but seemed on a downward slide last time I went there a year or so ago. Kahala is long gone.

                                                            I know exactly the kind of eggrolls you mean, and Haluwa and Singapore are the only places around here to serve them. Brings me back the Christmas Eve c. 1966 every time! wouldn't even attempt trying to create those on my own.

                                                            I say to my husband that the old-fashioned Cantonese-American restaurants are the ones that till VERY recently "called the won-ton kreplach" on their menus. (For those not knowing about the historical connection between American Jews and Chinese food: it makes fascinating research.) I am 51 and will probably live to witness the closure of the very last one. Oy...

                                                            4 Replies
                                                            1. re: Rattus

                                                              Nanking - Hudson, Golden Dragon - Nashua, Lokai in Dracut. All good, all have been around for many years.

                                                              1. re: rcdelude

                                                                What a wonderful treat to fall upon this discussion group and stroll down memory lane from my years living in Newton and suburbs of Boston. We had many Sunday dinners at Ho Sai Gai at Putterham Circle in South Brookline, MA. We lived closer to South Pacific, and I never knew why my parents preferred Ho Sai Gai, but hey. who's to complain? For special occasions when dad wanted to take a ride, we ventured to Cathay House in Chinatown for egg rolls, "pork strips or ends", fried rice and shrimp with lobster sauce. Does anyone remember "Pea pod soong" from Ho Sai Gai? It was a family favorite, and I have never been able to even identify its ingredients. I remember it being a little like lobster sauce with crushed almonds on top.

                                                                It's been a while since I've been back to the Boston area, but there are two restaurants I remember from years ago that still had the "good egg rolls", dark brown fried rice, and brown savory lobster sauce with nuggets of pork in it. In Burlington, MA there is Burlington Jade (take out only) on Rt 3A, and Woo Loon Ming in N.Billerica on Chelmsford Rd.

                                                                I have often thought if I could just buy "Boston" duck sauce, I could create a memory even with "todays" Chinese food. That's what led me to this discussion group. I can't wait to try making it from one of the recipes in the thread.

                                                                1. re: Davew

                                                                  My reasons for learning how to cook the Boston Style of Chinese cuisine is for the exact reasons you mentioned. I cannot get anything close to Boaton style in Florida. I've conquered the appetizers and the dishes which were my favorites. As a result, my husband and I eat our favorite food here on Florida about once a month. It is a LOT of work and it is devoured in just a few minutes but it is worth the effort. Enjoy the recipes you see here. The work is rewarding.

                                                                  1. re: Hytzipky

                                                                    Hytzipky has generously shared recipes for some of these favorite dishes, and we've moved the discussion to our Home Cooking board. You can join that discussion here: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/890541

                                                            2. Chen Yang Li in Nashua is going to have to move. They sold the building :(

                                                              1. May I suggest Jim Lee's Chinese Cookbook for anyone starved for this genre of Chinese cooking? Probably out of print but available at libraries and inet.

                                                                Good, solid recipes for mostly Cantonese chinese food. His discussion of Lobster Cantonese recipes variants alone is worth the price of the book.

                                                                1 Reply
                                                                1. re: giantmouth

                                                                  Found a used one online for $4 with shipping. Thanks for the tip. I look forward to trying some of his recipes.

                                                                2. wow reading all these posts brings back many memories of great food. I used to go to the Haluwa, Kahala, Cathay Island, Singapore and Aloha restaurants in New Hampshire. They had the best food. The duck sauce was always so good (and cannot get it here in the west). I remember a dish called "steak kew" that was delicious and then there was the "chicken fingers or gold fingers" as it was called some places - the beef sticks - the egg rolls and scallion pancakes - cannot find receipes that even meet the flavor of these items. Wow definitely going to have to visit NH soon just to get some - unless someone knows of receipes that come close?????

                                                                  1. Haluwa by the Christmas Tree Shops/former Nashua Mall? Yep. That relic is still here. I can only imagine that place it's heyday... there had to have been tiki lamps and those head statue things...
                                                                    I had a bizzare dish there that was essentially spaghetti with a ground meat ragu, except asian-iflavored. It was laughably inauthentic but pretty damn good too.

                                                                    5 Replies
                                                                    1. re: cringle22

                                                                      American Chop Suey Chinese style?

                                                                      1. re: whs

                                                                        haha... not even. While the restaurant has an extensive selection of Chop Suey and Chow Mein -just to show they're serious!- this was straight up spaghetti with a gob of meat sauce sitting on top, with asian flavors. They call it "Peking Meat Sauce Noodle"

                                                                        1. re: cringle22

                                                                          That sounds absolutely horrible. I remember their egg foo young and eggrolls as being excellent. Just that last time I went it was hard to overlook the general uncleanliness (which has increased over time).

                                                                          1. re: Rattus

                                                                            I'm almost ashamed to say I enjoyed it. Yeah, the uncleanliness is kindof a problem. The lounge clientele isn't exactly ... vibrant either.

                                                                            1. re: cringle22

                                                                              Lounge clientele is a scary collection indeed.

                                                                    2. Yeah, the Polynesian style used to be pretty widespread in Maine, and I loved it. Flaming Ambrosia!!! Thanks for posting!

                                                                      1. Hey there, we actually just revisted our favorite spot in N. Attleboro, MA 2 weeks ago when we went back for a visit. They make a Polynesian special Suffering Bastard drink as they call them at Mon Kou Rest. on Rt. 1A. They are enough to knock you off your feet in 2 drinks also. We also just relocated to FL near Bradenton and have had no luck finding that restaurant. I did talk to the bartender and he was native Hawaiian and his father started their restaurant which explains why it was so good.

                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                        1. re: dkdflorida

                                                                          I do have the recipe for an SB. It's easy to make. You need 1 oz. overproof rum (Jamaican), 1-1/2 oz. white rum (Bacardi and NOT spiced), 1 oz. lime juice, 2 oz. orange juice, 3/4 oz. orange curacao, 1/2 oz. Almond (Orgeat) Syrup, orange slice and maraschino cherry.

                                                                          If you can't find the orgaet syrup, you can order it directly at Torini.com (http://shop.torani.com/Almond-Orgeat-...)

                                                                          Fill a mixing glass with ice. Add all ingredients except for orange slice and cherry. Shake well. Pore over a tall glass filled with ice. Add more orange juice if needed to fill the glass or dilute (this is potent). Put a slice of orange on the rim of the glass. Stick a cherry through the top of the orange skin with fancy toothpick as a garnish.

                                                                          Drink slowly and with food in your stomach. It doesn't taste strong but it will blow your mind before you are half done. Have a second one at your own risk. Enjoy.