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Please update me: I need a new DISHWASHER...what should I buy?

liu Sep 21, 2006 12:00 AM

My appliance repairman -- who I really like! -- has recommended the Bosch dishwasher to replace our almost 20-year-old KitchenAid.

I will make this purchase in the next few days, so I would love any input before I buy. Thanks!

  1. n
    Nyleve Oct 26, 2006 02:47 PM

    Possibly a single lone voice for the Sears Kenmore Elite. Excellent washing, extreme quiet and accessible service were of the utmost importance to me. We live in a rural area so Bosch would be one of those things that our local service person would never have seen the like of in his whole dang life. So I went with the Kenmore and it's superb. A whole lot less expensive than any of the other top-end options, incredibly quiet (I have to put my ear to the door of the dishwasher to hear if it's running); and very attractive. It also cleans beautifully without pre-rinsing. If you choose this, make sure you go for the top end of the Elite line - the sound insulation and general appearance is better.

    1. f
      FlavoursGal Oct 26, 2006 02:32 AM

      I have 2 Fisher-Paykel DishDrawers - single unit dishwashing drawers, one on each side of the sink, both at hip level. No bending!

      I've had them for about 2 years. They work really well, are quiet, and so easy to load and empty!

      Go to http://usa.fisherpaykel.com/kitchen/d...

      1. z
        ZoeZ Sep 24, 2006 05:41 PM

        When we remodeled our kitchen in 1992, we bought two top of the line Kitchen Aid dishwashers and paid another $100 each to get sound proofing on each since the kitchen is adjacent to the family room which is the chamber of TV delight. When the dishwasher is run, we hear a faint whoosh and that is it. We have had one service call (timer) in 14 years. I am holding my breath. Upstairs we have a dishwasher for the coffee pot and Devil Chow and his Missus' water dishes and bowls. Unless all these dishes are pre washed, the cheaper Hotpoint does not wash properly, ie. get the stuff clean unlike the Kitchenaid which is 99.9% perfect (and I put in dishes not rinsed). I wash everything in the Kitchenaid, sterling silver, good dishes (not the hand painted Havilland set which MmeZoeZ's great great grandmother brought over from France (I learned that lesson that blue fades). I am heart sick that Kitchenaid is not made by them anymore and hope that the new company's product lasts as well.

        1 Reply
        1. re: ZoeZ
          liu Sep 24, 2006 06:00 PM

          Thanks for this report. We are just "placing to rest" our almost 20-year-old KA dishwasher...RIP! It gave us no problems until just recently.

          Disappointingly, to date, I have not been hearing good things about the integrity -- over the long haul -- about the new KitchenAid appliances.

        2. roxhills Sep 23, 2006 05:56 PM

          Have no regrets! We put in 2 Miele diswashers about a year ago. i love my Mieles. I use them both every day. When we set about planning our major kitchen remodel, I had a 1 year old top of the line Kitchen Aid that I had planned on using in the new kitchen but my kitchen designer insisted that i not use it for aesthetic reasons and he insisted that the Miele was the best.

          We have 3 kids under 4 years old and go through tons of dishes. I finally took the time last week to check the trap thing at the bottom to see if any food had accumulated and there was nothing, after 1 year of use. I use one dishwasher for bottles on a daily basis and for whenever we need an extra dishwasher-- it comes in very handy. The other one gets regular dishes. It has taken some time to figure out the best way to load them and you have to be careful to leave space for all the washer arms to rotate. I was reluctant to put them in but they are great! Now I have the Kitchen Aid sitting in my garage taking up space.

          3 Replies
          1. re: roxhills
            liu Sep 23, 2006 06:46 PM

            Thanks, roxhills, for your vote. Please tell me which model you purchased -- this will help a lot. We ordered the Diamante, but it has no time read-out for the cycle, so I think we should upgrade -- it has not been delivered yet and I can change the order. Let me know what you have and if you find its features sufficient.

            1. re: liu
              roxhills Sep 23, 2006 07:00 PM

              Mine are the G892 touchtronic and the G851SC (which was the floor sample at the cabinet place on Robertson where I bought my cabinets and is 1 model year older). They both have a stainless control panel and I have decorative cabinet panels below the visible control panel. I don't have a digital readout on either and don't really need them. The cycles are INCREDIBLY long-- approx 2 hours. But as I look on the Miele site, it looks like they have renamed everything this year and increased the number of dishwashers they make. I don't need the time readout-- it tells you whether it is washing or drying etc anyhow and I usually run the dishwasher at night so it doesn't matter when it finishes. I also have the Miele washer/dryer and I did get the time read out on the washer. Those cycles are incredibly long as well but I usually find that I do multiple loads of luandry and not multiple loads of dishes. For the dishwasher, I use the normal and normal plus cycles along with china/crystal (on occasion) and the sani-wash cycle for the baby bottles. Hope that helps.

              1. re: roxhills
                liu Sep 23, 2006 07:08 PM

                Even though -- as you point out -- I can't compare exact machines because they have changed, your information helps greatly. I also thank you for responding so quickly!

                I will check the feature list again on the one I am purchasing to see exactly what it has in light of all the information you have provided. Thanks, again!

          2. liu Sep 22, 2006 08:19 PM

            With all these Bosch testimonials, I am having buyer's remorse! I'd love to hear some Miele stories, since that is the one I just purchased.

            1. o
              okjim3 Sep 22, 2006 07:23 PM

              My Bosch is ten years old and I'm pleased with it. Never a repair bill. Whatever you get it has to be stainless steel inside. After 10 years they trays and such are starting to get a little ratty, and the front is dirty behind the outer surface, but the ss inside still gleams. I bet a lot of the features have changed in 10 years, so I can't comment there, but simple durable and quiet mine had been.

              1. Chicago Wine Geek Sep 22, 2006 05:41 PM

                Liu,

                I went with the Bosch, but it won't be delivered until next month so I can't share any experience. Here's the one I went with:

                http://www.boschappliances.com/produc...

                And it was #1 rated by Consumer Reports!

                8 Replies
                1. re: Chicago Wine Geek
                  Chicago Wine Geek Oct 25, 2006 08:35 PM

                  Just got this installed this week and it is outstanding!!! 110% satisfied. I can't believe how quiet it is! My coffee maker makes more noise.

                  1. re: Chicago Wine Geek
                    liu Oct 25, 2006 11:47 PM

                    Hello, Chicago Wine Geek!

                    So, let's say there are TWO good brands out there. I have heard about many more-than-satisfied Bosch customers like you. I went with the Miele (Optima Model) and am quite happy. What I love most is the upper silverware deck; what I don't love is the very long cycle -- almost 2 hours. However, it does a very good job.

                    I have recently replaced several major appliances in our home, and all of them take some adjusting on the owner's part. I think after many years with an appliance, one gets very used to it; the new appliances are different and need some breaking-in time for the owner! Old habits and relationships are hard to change!!!

                    Please do tell me more about your Bosch: what do you love, and what would you change? Which model did you get?

                    1. re: liu
                      f
                      fauchon Oct 26, 2006 12:20 PM

                      Glad you're happy with your new Miele. I purchased the Premier Plus model. The reason I chose that model was that it the only one I could find that has a "short" cycle (about 26 mins). All the other cycles are well over an hour...I've had the DW for about a year and "short" is the only cycle I've ever needed. Usually I cook just for DH and myself & I don't let crud dry on dishes, pots, etc, but even for a party, the "short" cycle cleans perfectly.

                      You're certainly correct about needing time to adjust to a new model...When I first got the PP, I kept forgetting to unload the top silverware deck! I simply forgot that it was there...until we ran out of utensils!

                      1. re: fauchon
                        liu Oct 26, 2006 01:18 PM

                        Hello, fauchon! "...I kept forgetting to unload the top silverware deck..." YES! I am laughing because this also happened to me!

                        In their new renaming, there is no Premier Plus model that I saw in their catalog. However, I do have a "short" cycle that is about 30 minutes; I thank you for this reminder. I will try it next time I have a "short" load.

                        I do love all the bottom rack space when I raise the middle rack; it can hold all those odd and large bowls that I could never fit into my 20-year-old KA model.

                        I have only had mine for about 2 weeks, so thanks for the good words!

                      2. re: liu
                        Chicago Wine Geek Oct 26, 2006 06:42 PM

                        I got the SHU66C05UC, the one I posted the link to. And it also got #1 by Consumer Reports. What do I love? It's so quiet I can't believe it. So many settings like "just the top rack" or "quick cycle". The silverware basket separates into 2 pieces for different configurations on the bottom rack. Tines that fold down. So much.

                        Like you, I've also on a replacement binge. I got an insane microwave and next weekend the new Bosch dual fuel oven arrives!

                        1. re: Chicago Wine Geek
                          liu Oct 26, 2006 07:45 PM

                          That's a pretty nice setting: "just the top rack." We were debating between the two, Miele or Bosch. Actually, the salesman told us that since I like to unload the dishes pretty shortly after the wash is completed, I would be happier with the Miele that does not dry by condensation. But it does not sound like you are having any such "wet dishes" issues at the end of the cycle. I am sure they are both good!

                          Our refrigerator is next to go; its "noises" are getting louder and louder and I know it is ready -- almost 20 years old. We are looking at the top French door style with the freezer on the bottom. Any ideas?

                          1. re: liu
                            Chicago Wine Geek Oct 30, 2006 04:25 PM

                            New Bosch oven comes on Saturday, I can't wait! Love the dishwasher. My only complaint is that with all the soundproofing, it is actually smaller than the dishwasher it replaced.

                            1. re: Chicago Wine Geek
                              liu Oct 31, 2006 05:37 AM

                              Perhaps it is smaller, but don't you find that with the top silverware rack you have a lot more room in the bottom rack for various large pieces?

                              We have had our new Miele for just about 10 days now and I am still playing with the configuration; I just can't seem to figure out the ideal placement to maximize the use of space. In the old dishwasher, everything had its place, but I think every load I have done with this new dishwasher has been different. My dishes are thick and just don't seem to fit well within the fixed prongs. Are you experiencing this as well?

                  2. w
                    wak Sep 22, 2006 05:14 AM

                    I've had Bosch in my last three places and never had a problem - that's three different machines...

                    Currently have the SHU66C05UC. It does not have the flat front and bottons on top of the door, but its behind a counter so no one can see it but me. It does have a grab handle in the front to unlatch in mid-cycle. Plus an adjustable top rack. That's the one feature I use more than any other - I'm always moving it up and down to accomodate big pans or tall glasses.

                    A note on shopping:

                    For many high-end appliances - Viking, Sub-Zero, Thermador, etc, you can't negotiate on price. You can often get extended warranties, discounted installation, etc, but the price on the invoice must be the same at all stores. Not so with Bosch. I almost always can get quoted $100 or so off the list, and then start working on free delivery, warranty, etc. Especially when you can bundle a few more things into the deal.

                    1 Reply
                    1. re: wak
                      liu Sep 22, 2006 04:12 PM

                      In today's world, there always seems to be room for discounts of some kind, whether it be -- as you have pointed out -- in the delivery, the installation, the rebate, etc. etc.

                      By the way, for those of you currently buying or for recent purchases, do check for energy rebates from your utility companies: water, gas, electric.

                    2. liu Sep 22, 2006 04:59 AM

                      rainey -- I can confirm what you are saying -- if I am reading you correctly. In our walks through many showrooms we discovered that each manufacturer has many different models at many different price ranges; the choices are sometimes overwhelming! We also found many sales and "specials."

                      Regarding your comment about putting your dishes in dirty and they come out clean holds truth for some manufacturers. For example, today I was told by Bosch that basically, the mechanics of all of their machines are the same; the differences are in the sound control and perhaps the configuration of the racks. But the parts that we can't see, the internal workings, are the same from model to model. This confirms that you can get your appliance at various price marks; what will cost you more are the extras in this case.

                      I think what you are observing is that the consumer is becoming more particular and the manufacturer is trying to appeal to each and every preference -- or is it the other way around: that the manufacturer is creating a very particular consumer by offering a gazillion choices??????

                      Am I reading you correctly?

                      2 Replies
                      1. re: liu
                        r
                        rainey Sep 24, 2006 03:01 AM

                        Yes, I think a consumer can be happy and get good utility from more basic machines. And it's good to stop and consider if you're getting as much more "dishwashing" as additional *prestige* as you go for the higher end.

                        That said, I repeat, I don't wash fine china, crystal or sterling in my dishwasher and how investments in such things are protected could make all the difference in how someone else makes their selection. But I'd hate to think anyone would feel they didn't get good equipment or feel disappointed because their resources required that they choose basic models or non-European manufactuers.

                        1. re: rainey
                          liu Sep 24, 2006 03:53 AM

                          Agreed.

                      2. r
                        rainey Sep 22, 2006 04:19 AM

                        I don't quite know what my reaction to all the previous posts is. I'm thrilled for everyone who is happy but I've got a 4yo Whirlpool that I doubt I paid much more than $600 for. It washes the dishes. I put them in dirty; they come out clean. I can be in the same room with it and not know it's on, but if I have a shred of a doubt about it bothering me, I can set it on a delay. Admittedly, I don't have fine china, crystal or sterling that I'm washing in it. Maybe if good stuff was getting wrecked I'd feel differently indeed.

                        Again, I'm pleased for everyone who's happy with the $$$ they spent but I'd like someone who can't pony up for the top of the line stuff know that there are good things out there in other price ranges.

                        1. liu Sep 22, 2006 03:56 AM

                          My sincere thanks to everyone who responded to assist in my search for a new dishwasher; your information was invaluable!

                          We just purchased a Miele. Several of the sales reps did not like the drying power of the Bosch, given my habit of putting the dishes away immediately at the end of the cycle and not letting them sit overnight. Asko looked good; I also liked the KitchenAid. The sales reps really like the Miele for my uses (or perhaps this was their month to "push" Miele???), and there we settled because it was closing time! (We also purchased the Whirlpool Duet clothes washer -- great for kitchen towels and other food-related linens!)

                          I offer the brand information so that if anyone else is considering a similar purchase, I would be happy to share any information I have.

                          2 Replies
                          1. re: liu
                            f
                            FlyFish Sep 22, 2006 12:51 PM

                            If you end up liking your new Miele half as much as I like mine (installed 3 yrs ago) you're going to be very happy indeed. We were undecided between Miele and Bosch, but the Miele has a built-in water softener and we have very hard well water, so that made the difference in our decision. It is simply magnificent - we redid the whole kitchen with very high end appliances across the board and the Miele is the only one that I've never had second thoughts about.

                            1. re: FlyFish
                              liu Sep 22, 2006 04:09 PM

                              Indeed, I am suffering buyer's remorse, and I have perhaps another 10 days to suffer since it needs to be ordered.

                              Thanks for your affirming words...I feel better!

                          2. George Sep 22, 2006 02:38 AM

                            I love my Bosch. Wouldn't go with anything else, I'm not even so sure about the more expensvie Mieles.

                            1. byrd Sep 21, 2006 11:37 PM

                              unless your label hunting nothing beats kenmore for reliability and durability when it comes to appliances, GE used to be king, but their quality has slipped. i just bought a new d/w this week (replaced a 35 year old caloric) and the rub is it costs almost as much to have it delivered and installed as did the machine.

                              1 Reply
                              1. re: byrd
                                liu Sep 21, 2006 11:52 PM

                                "...nothing beats Kenmore..." Ooooooh, I can not agree!

                                We are in the process of replacing a 4+year-old Kenmore clothes washer Calypso that was a problem from the first day. Actually, there is a lawsuit against them regarding these machines. I also found that Sears did not come through for service on their plan and promise. So, I would not buy a Kenmore again from Sears...I'm feeling the burn!

                                We are leaning toward a Bosch dishwasher; surely, I have concerns about the drying powers and the interior size, but there seem to be some raves above on this post.

                                I thank everyone who has offered valuable information.

                              2. r
                                rtmonty Sep 21, 2006 10:55 PM

                                Have had a Asko since remodeling 7 years ago and it hasn't missed a beat. It's quiet, all controls are on top of the lid so nothiing external, cleans excellently. Would buy another in a minute.

                                1. c
                                  Cheesy Oysters Sep 21, 2006 10:15 PM

                                  Just got the GE with the auto soap dispenser. Looked at Bosch but they had a lousy rating on Consumer Reports in terms of maintenance. Dishes in the new GE come out amazingly clean and it's very quiet.

                                  2 Replies
                                  1. re: Cheesy Oysters
                                    liu Sep 21, 2006 10:23 PM

                                    Is your GE the one that you put soap in about every 45 washes?

                                    1. re: liu
                                      c
                                      Cheesy Oysters Sep 21, 2006 11:04 PM

                                      Yep that is the one. It has only been installed a week so I can't say too much about it but so far so good!

                                  2. a
                                    axesbowledaslove Sep 21, 2006 09:58 PM

                                    We have had the Bosch (SHX46 -- with the hidden controls) for about 4 years now. The first one we had failed (bad logic board). We bought it at Sears so I just took it back and they gave me a brand new one. No problems with that. Dishes come out exceptionally clean, drying takes longer (there is no heater element on the bottom to heat the air inside for drying). I like the way that the shelves arrange but I wish I had gone up one model for the split silverware basket. The large one sometimes gets in the way of bigger pots. One issue is that there is no positive interlocked grab handle on the door. Essentially, you just close it till it clicks and runs. To open it, you have to grab the front handle and yank it open. If you pull too hard so that the door comes open suddenly, you can end up getting a snoot full of hot water. So be careful if you have to open it mid-cycle.

                                    The construction is really thoughtful. There is a molded channel in the bottom that allows the power and water to be easily routed to the front, and there is a screw that you can reach from the front of the appliance that lets you set the height of the rear of the machine for leveling purposes. (I install all of our appliances.)

                                    It is the quietest dishwasher I have ever been around and we are really happy with the performance. We have owned several dishwashers, the last being a Kitchen Aid. I would not go back to any of them.

                                    2 Replies
                                    1. re: axesbowledaslove
                                      liu Sep 21, 2006 10:22 PM

                                      Thanks for all this great information, especially in light of the fact that I am between the Bosch and the KitchenAid. Your recommendation with all the specifics surely helps a lot!

                                      I will look for the divided silverware basket, as you have pointed out. I also appreciate your mention of the opening/closing of the door. Thanks, again, for taking the time to mention so many details.

                                      1. re: liu
                                        Greg B Sep 21, 2006 10:59 PM

                                        Keep in mind that KitchenAid is now made by Whirlpool. The old KitchenAids (probably yours) were made by Hobart, who make commercial kitchen equipment.

                                    2. i
                                      itsonlyfood Sep 21, 2006 09:27 PM

                                      I find the kitchen a place where everyone likes to hang out.
                                      Therefore, for me, a quiet dishwasher is paramount. I believe the European models are the quietist: Bosch and Miele.

                                      1. Vexorg Sep 21, 2006 04:39 AM

                                        My parents have had a Bosch dishwasher at their place for 8+ years now, and it's run basically trouble-free for that entire time.

                                        1 Reply
                                        1. re: Vexorg
                                          liu Sep 21, 2006 05:13 AM

                                          8+ years with no problems -- I can only hope! Thanks!

                                        2. e
                                          EclecticEater Sep 21, 2006 03:16 AM

                                          Bosch has a bewildering array of models, but once you look closely at them they begin to make sense. For example, being able to lift up the upper basket, more cycles. I vote enthusiastically for Bosch. We have two of them, stainless steel. They are quiet, so quiet you can hardly tell they're on. They clean dishes really well. They hold dishes in well designed baskets. They're expensive, yes. No problems with them. Were easy to install. Look at them and you won't be sorry. Much better than our last, Whirlpool, top rated by Consumer Reports but didn't wash dishes that well. Bosch gets my vote.

                                          3 Replies
                                          1. re: EclecticEater
                                            liu Sep 21, 2006 05:12 AM

                                            Thanks for all this information and for your enthusiasm.

                                            1. re: EclecticEater
                                              r
                                              rose11597 Apr 8, 2007 02:44 PM

                                              what do you use for detergent and rinse aid just got a bosch...thanks

                                              1. re: rose11597
                                                Chicago Wine Geek Apr 10, 2007 10:16 AM

                                                I use those little gel packs of dry and wet.

                                                http://housekeeping.about.com/od/taki...

                                            2. weinstein5 Sep 21, 2006 01:58 AM

                                              We just got KitchenAid and I am very impressed - quiet, do an exceptional job of cleaning and use very little detergent -

                                              1. liu Sep 21, 2006 12:38 AM

                                                Responding to: "...or I will have to reconfigure my kitchen..." and "...still in dishwasher limbo." I'm laughing WITH you, Melanie!

                                                Appliance replacement is not as simple as it used to be, and I am just not finding anything that is nearly as good as what I purchased many years ago. The Sears Kenmore Elite washing machine that I have (which washes kitchen towels and aprons-- just so I keep it food oriented for the Chow Team!) is less than 5 years old and needs replacing.

                                                When the repairman looked at the almost 20-year-old KitchenAid dishwasher he was impressed by all the metal and "real" parts; I know I will not find that today. Not fun...my next house I am turning my kitchen into a huge, walk-in closet!

                                                1. Candy Sep 21, 2006 12:29 AM

                                                  I am seriously wed to GE dishwashers. One I am craving, and since my current Profile which is quiet and efficient and does not need to be replaced, so I will keep yearning for, allows you to put in enough detergent to last for 45 loads. Oh I want that machine. I need to replace my cook top first though. It is a Monogram downdraft model with 5 gas burners, it is about 18 years old and in my island. I need another downdraft or I will have to replace my counter top. Or I wll have to reconfigure my kitchen and replace all of the countertops. Aaaaarggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

                                                  1. Melanie Wong Sep 21, 2006 12:26 AM

                                                    You're still in dishwasher limbo?

                                                    Earlier request -
                                                    http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...

                                                    1. Sarah Sep 21, 2006 12:23 AM

                                                      My daughter just got a Bosch (2 mos) and loves it - very quiet. What ever happened w/your frig search?

                                                      1 Reply
                                                      1. re: Sarah
                                                        liu Sep 21, 2006 12:30 AM

                                                        WOW-oh-WOW, Sarah! You have an amazing memory, huh!!!

                                                        Actually, while the appliance repairman was here today to tell me that we need a new dishwasher, he also told me that we need a new clothes washer. So, before he could even look at the fridge, I scoooooted him out the door! The fridge is not far behind! I just haven't found anything that I really like, and this has been the problem with all the appliance replacements. I would have jumped if I had seen something that was equal to or better than what I purchased many years ago.

                                                        We're all getting older...I'll need to be replaced next!

                                                        Thanks for the encouraging words about the Bosch dishwasher.

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