326339 Fri Sep 15 22:10:25 -0700 2006 33 34 Wine 0 1879980 I'm planning a wine tasting next month, and I'm going to do Organic and Biodynamic wines. There are lots of wines to choose from, so I'm looking for some suggestions. Are there any wines in the $15 - $30 range that you particularly like? Any type or varietal is fine, as long as it's really good. But I'm in Minnesota, so I probably can't find the more obsure stuff. And yes, I read the thread discussing BD Pinot Noir and BD wines in general (I liked the poster who described BD as "Feng Shui for Grapes"). http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/300662?user_name=&query=organic Thanks, Anne P.S. I found these helpful lists online, but there's way too much! http://www.organicwinejournal.com/index.php/main/more/fantasy_wine_cellar/ http://www.wineanorak.com/biodynamic3.htm http://www.winealchemy.com/wa_biodynamics3.php Fri Sep 15 22:10:25 -0700 2006 12541 AnneInMpls 1 1880464 On biodynamic wines there are three main references: Nicolas Joly http://www.coulee-de-serrant.com/ Nicolas Joly http://www.coulee-de-serrant.com/ Nicolas Joly http://www.coulee-de-serrant.com/ Sat Sep 16 03:18:39 -0700 2006 1879980 28703 RicRios 1 1880475 I've plugged this before but I'll plug it again: Gruner Veltliner from Weingut Hofer. In New York, anyway, it retails for between 9 and 10 bucks for a litre bottle. You'll be surprised by how much more "expensive" it tastes. Maybe it can be your budget wildcard for the evening. It's Austrian, bright, super-clean. Sat Sep 16 03:23:04 -0700 2006 1879980 40307 frenetica 2 1880833 I am fond of the organic wines from Coturri. I especially recommend their Carignane, which sells for about $20. http://www.coturriwinery.com/main.html Sat Sep 16 14:10:00 -0700 2006 1880475 39783 RichardA 3 1902140 I agree - Coturri is completely natural - not only in the vineyards but in the cellar - many producers of "organic" and even BD use yeast additives, add acids, and chemicals like sulfites that take away flavors - Why grow organic and then process out all the goodness of the natural grapes? Tue Sep 26 02:02:55 -0700 2006 1880833 43040 Omega 4 1903143 As far as I know, you cannot properly make wine without adding some sulphites as a preservative... otherwise you end up with balsamic vinegar Tue Sep 26 16:38:02 -0700 2006 1902140 22015 newJJD 5 1904707 incorrect many wines are made without the ADDITION of sulfites. It, however, does not make them Sulfite free or organic. Wed Sep 27 02:09:10 -0700 2006 1903143 11445 Winemark 6 1904791 your right - wine has been made for eons without chemicals added Wed Sep 27 02:53:02 -0700 2006 1904707 43040 Omega 7 1906226 I stand corrected, I'm not sure why I thought that Wed Sep 27 19:33:06 -0700 2006 1904791 22015 newJJD 1 1881387 If you can find any wines by Marc Kreydenweiss.... The Riesling is amazing. The 2003 Barbabelle is a good red. Sat Sep 16 21:03:22 -0700 2006 1879980 16309 h2o 1 1882744 Might I ask what you notice if anything about biodynamic wines that differs from organic or for that matter non-organic? In taste and/or effect. Have been curious about biodynamism but only really reached it from a skincare point of view w/Dr. Hauschka and Weleda products. Had a biodynamic wine of some sort once. Sun Sep 17 21:05:29 -0700 2006 1879980 40486 Cinnamon 2 1883516 I, too, am interested in whether anyone can taste a difference - that's the motivation for this tasting. I'm not sure I've had a BD wine yet. I'll post a report after the tasting, which is in mid-October, presuming I can find any biodynamic wines in this podunk place (as far as alcohol is concerned, we're kinda in hicksville). Anne Mon Sep 18 06:41:42 -0700 2006 1882744 12541 AnneInMpls 3 1886443 Sounds like a fun tasting project. Enjoy! Tue Sep 19 14:51:15 -0700 2006 1883516 40486 Cinnamon 3 1902926 There may be some pretty sophisticated palates out there, but I think tasting the difference is not so easy and not really the point of the whole thing anyway. Lots of the org. of biod. wines I've had actually have some real earthy flavors (read:funky dirty etc) in very lovely ways. The idea we have of organic products is often of cleanliness which can have a converse effect on wines. Wines that taste super clean are sometimes the product of lots of manipulation and intervention by winemakers. Hard to tell. I just like to support farmers and winemakers who are the best stewards of the earth. Tue Sep 26 15:13:13 -0700 2006 1883516 19172 redhookandrew 1 1882746 I a familiar with five California wineries that are organic and, I'm pretty sure, certified biodynamic. Frei Brothers Robert Sinskey Benziger Patianna (owned by Patti Fetzer) and, I think, Fetzer is also qualfied. Of those, only Patianna is relatively obscure, but then, we're in the backyard of all of them Sun Sep 17 21:09:52 -0700 2006 1879980 11405 Midlife 1 1882754 Only a few wines from Benziger are Biodynamic, actually more like Demeter and that wine is TRIBUTE Sun Sep 17 21:19:37 -0700 2006 1879980 11445 Winemark 2 1885368 They have a biodynamic lineup of all kinds of wine (white, red, and maybe port), just call and ask. I love the way they explain biodynamic farming, so take a look at their website. Maybe your friends would like the info at the tasting. www.benziger.com PS. They just added a video tour explaining biodynamic farming! I really enjoyed their wine tour, so take a look and see what you think. Biodynamic or otherwise, Benziger makes some of the most consistently wonderful wines I've had from Sonoma. Of course, I'm talking about their reserve bottles which retail for $30+. Their $10-20 ones are just okay. Mon Sep 18 23:32:48 -0700 2006 1882754 11577 Pei 3 1885678 This must be a newer or only from the winery thing. I sold these wines at the wholesale level up until 1 1/2 years ago and they were only making Tribute bio dynamically. Even more interesting is the Demeter certification which goes well beyond Bio dynamic Tue Sep 19 01:33:30 -0700 2006 1885368 11445 Winemark 2 1906571 I believe all the wines from Sinskey are biodynamic. Member of their wine club. Outstanding pinots. Wed Sep 27 21:20:40 -0700 2006 1882754 10925 rtmonty 1 1885565 masut out of cali is biodynamic-- it's ceago's other line. they make a fantastic pinot. brooks, from oregon didier dagueneau (not really in the price range) lolonis (cali) lorca (cali) pinot gris is outrageously good. Tue Sep 19 00:46:29 -0700 2006 1879980 14280 HeelsSoxHound 1 1886439 porter creek, russian river valley. most of the wines are $25 and up, but they are delicious. i had a lovely syrah and viognier there. Tue Sep 19 14:48:16 -0700 2006 1879980 19646 laguera 1 1893756 Preston of Dry Creek is biodynamic. I haven't had a wine I didn't love from them. http://www.prestonvineyards.com/index1.html Fri Sep 22 00:13:45 -0700 2006 1879980 13834 oaklandfoodie 1 1893880 Thanks for all the great recommendations! Please keep 'em coming - I have another three weeks to shop... Thanks, Anne Fri Sep 22 01:15:49 -0700 2006 1879980 12541 AnneInMpls 1 1894350 I can't believe that nobody has mentioned the superb organic wines made by Bonterra in California. Likewise, don't forget that most of the M. Chapoutier wines from the Rhone are biodynamic. Fri Sep 22 08:28:34 -0700 2006 1879980 16797 bogie 2 1894667 Bonterra is made of organicly grown grapes but is not organic wine. There is a fine line. Fri Sep 22 14:40:53 -0700 2006 1894350 11445 Winemark 3 1897250 I did not know that...now that I take a fresh look at their website, I realize that they do not discuss winemaking practices at all. Sat Sep 23 18:21:07 -0700 2006 1894667 16797 bogie 4 1897257 If you look at the package it says made with organicly grown grapes. One of the problems is that retailers put it in the organic section of a lot of stores. To be totally organic your vineyards need to be certified (which Bonterra's are) and you can not hit the grapes with a bit of sulfur on the crush pad and many other things which are tough to follow when mass producing wines. From a consumers standpoint it is confusing. Sat Sep 23 18:24:18 -0700 2006 1897250 11445 Winemark 5 1902907 There are plenty of producers out there who meet and surpass the requirements used to certify who do not actually go through certification, an therefore can't label organic. There are real financial reasons why this may be a difficult process for some to go through. I still would consider these to be organic wines with out getting into word play, but that is up to each consumer. The sulfur issue is a confusing one. As fermentation goes along some sulfur compounds are created and can not be removed. Sulphur-dioxide is an anti-bacterial agent and can be added to wines that will be labeled "certified organic" as long as it does not exceed the limit the certifying board has chosen (a tiny ammt). Tue Sep 26 15:04:52 -0700 2006 1897257 19172 redhookandrew 6 1904717 Redhook, Your points are primarily on point but it depends on which country you are making your wines in. Re: Sulfuring. As far as producers being organic without certifacation, sometime this cert. hurts sales. Like labeling a wine Kosher. People do not understand it Wed Sep 27 02:13:35 -0700 2006 1902907 11445 Winemark 1 1897139 no idea about local availability for you, but here's a few from the Biodynamic French tasting at Astor Wines in NYC this year. I think if you spot anything from ANY of these wineries, it'd be worth a shot. Fitou, La Grangette, Clos des Camuzeilles 2001 deeeelicious, $30 bottle anything from Dom. des Deux Anes in the Corbieres -- they had several bottles from 2003 in the $10 -$15 range that were QUITE nice. There's a little cap accent on top of the A in Anes. It's two donkeys on the label... St Chinian "Mas au Schiste"' Rimbert 2004, $15-ish Fontedicto 2001 Coteaux du Languedoc "Promise" (might be more like $37) one that I've seen around alot more... Dom. des Sablonettes 2004 "Les Copains d'Abord" I thought it was plonk, but plonk with a fun and freaky taste of black pepper. go poivre! It's a $10 bottle that would be fun at a tasting. can't wait to read what you end up with . . . Sat Sep 23 17:13:09 -0700 2006 1879980 11989 pitu 1 1897820 I like to Fitzpatrick winery, the fact that they sell organic wines is an added bonus. Diana and Patrick are very helpful about educating people about organic wines. You might be able to get the wines shipped to you. http://www.fitzpatrickwinery.com/wineryinfo.html Sun Sep 24 00:43:54 -0700 2006 1879980 13030 free sample addict aka Tracy L 1 1912766 the heller estate wines produces a good wine that happens to be organic. this carmel valley winery has been certified 100% organic and make some good and interesting wines. http://www.hellerestate.com/index.html Sat Sep 30 04:25:33 -0700 2006 1879980 11779 tuborg_gron 1 1934376 I've had a Vicien Malbec from Argentina that my friends enjoyed. It's about $12 in New York shops but I've seen it on-line as well. The store owner told me it's organic, biodynamic, and unfiltered. For once, I didn't have a headache after drinking red wine. Tue Oct 10 02:20:50 -0700 2006 1879980 14011 vicki_vale 1 1936683 Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice! We've purchased the wines - we bought them all at one store, so we mostly went with their recommendations. (We wanted to focus on smaller and family wineries, and many of the ones recommended here are hard to find in the Twin Cities, alas.) We also had a budget, so we needed some cheap wines to balance the expensive ones. Here's what we got: - Albet i Noya Cava Brut (biodynamic) - Alois Lageder Pinot Grigio (organic) - Pares Balta Blanc de Paes (organic) - Les Heretiques Vin de l'Heraut (biodynamic?) - red - Yorkville Cellars Richard the Lion-Heart Red Blend (organic) - Chateau Pierre-Bise 1997 Coteaux du Layon Beaulieu (grapes organically grown) Now we just have to figure out a menu that works with these wines! Thanks, Anne P.S. I'll post a report after the tasting, in case anyone is interested in hearing about these wines. Tue Oct 10 23:28:44 -0700 2006 1879980 12541 AnneInMpls