On the word "chowish"...

[eleatic stranger]

Every now and then one comes across the word "chowish" on the boards. In such cases I find myself quite puzzled. It's a bit of jargon, and being a bit of jargon it's to be expected that innocent bystanders may not have the sort of facility with it as those in the know. So what does it mean? Does anyone in the know find it irksome?

[TheDexter]

Jamie Fox Quote: I wouldn't call Whitney a Crackhead, just Crackish....

Sums up Chowish, I think...

[fryrose]

This is slightly off the main topic, but has bugged me in the same vein as the term chowish motivated the beginner of this thread. What is a DH? I am sure I am not the only one in the dark.
I do like the term chowish--and I am known to be a stickler on vocabulary. The hounds have done a great job defining it and our quest for the best.

[PrincessBakesALot]

"DH" is message board shorthand for "dear husband", DW is "dear wife" etc. It gets really confusing when people go into DBIL, DSIL, etc to cover all the in-laws.

[Nosher]

ES: You'll also see it in a bastardized form, especially on the Manhattan board, where a few people in particular like to use it as shorthand for "very pricey and the sort of dish/food/restaurant that I think I'm supposed to like if I'm serious about food." Truffles and omakase meals, for example, are always chowish, if you're using this definition.

But I'm with Robert Lauriston on this: chowish is where you find it, and it is ultimately, necessarily, about the gustatory aspects of an experience, not about price or provenance, as those are often red herrings. I can spend $0.50 for a Thai cookie in Woodside, Queens that is every microgram as chowish as an appetizer at Per Se. That to me is "chowish" in its original, purest sense.

Nosher

NYCnosh* http://nycnosh.com

[eleatic stranger]

So far as I can tell, here are two of the ways folks are inclined to take "chowish".

(i) A thing is chowish if it's something someone finds delicious. That is, their delight in it is a consequence of nothing but its taste.

(ii) A thing is chowish if it's from "off the beaten path". That is, if enough people love it, then, regardless of whether it tastes good to those who love it, it ain't chowish.

Do these capture two ways people actually take "chowish"? Are there any other alternatives? And, most importantly, why should we take chowish to mean one rather than the other. Defenders of (i), why do you think it's right? Defenders of (ii), why do you think it's right?

[Alan408]

It is jargon. If you go to the "Getting Started" button, then FAQ, a chowhound is defined.

"Chowhounds spurn established opinion to sniff out on their own secret deliciousness. The places they find today will show up in newspapers two years from now and in Zagat’s in four, when they’ll undoubtedly have grown crowded and overpriced."

IIRC, the old site's description also included finding the best non restaurant foods.

[eleatic stranger]

I think it's right to suppose that what'd help is a definition of a chowhound. If we take this one as given, then it seems as though anything anybody likes--so long as they like it because it's tasty and not, for instance, because iall the cool kids do--is chowish. Even if a joint is regarded as good by "established opinion", in other words, it could still be a source of "secret deliciousness". I may love the hell out of Popeye's chicken even though it's widely regarded as being good. Are my Popeye's inclinations chowish or not? What shall we say?

By the way, Katie, if we take this as approaching a definition of "chowish" (and it's not yet clear to me why we shouldn't), then your affection for those chips is chowish!

[Katie Nell]

My point is, that it is to me, but sometimes not to others. (I'm sorry if I'm coming across snotty... I always seem to get in trouble when I move away from the Home Cooking board! ;-) Anyway, I get tired of the snobbishness of being a Chowhound sometimes, and that's probably what came across in my chip post and this thread. I just like good food, just like good music, regardless of whether it's a popular notion or not. Sometimes I love a greasy cheeseburger or Popeye's spicy fried chicken or Al Green or Dolly Parton; does this mean that I'm a bad Chowhound or am tonedeaf... I don't think so, but I think some people truly believe that. (Just read the McDonald's thread!) I like what I want to like... and I'm just talking in circles now, so I'm just going to shut up! What were we talking about again?!

[The Dairy Queen]

I don't think it makes you a bad Chowhound if you like Popeye's. Someone whose tastes differ from yours may indeed believe you are "tonedeaf" or that your palate is unrefined, but that's just their opinion. There's probably someone else out there who has tastes similar to yours. The key is, you pay attention to what you eat and are always in search of deliciousness, whatever that means to you. I think it helps, too, if you're constantly educating yourself about foods.

EDIT: Actually, I think it makes you MORE of a chowhound if you are true to what tastes good to you rather than be swayed by the opinions of others. I'm not saying you should be rigid and closed to new ideas, but if you honestly like the taste of something, and not just for nostalgia reasons, who cares what anyone else thinks?

~TDQ

[bbqboy]

That's what differs. For a lot of folks on the Outback boards, Zagat and Reviewers never enter the picture. "Chowish" to me would follow Mr. Lauriston's definiton pretty closely. Finding fresh food lovingly made, of whatever stripe.
Regional Foods done Well.
And Popeye's is Chowish, KFC is not.

[eleatic stranger]

As I suspected, there are (at least) two distinct notions of "chowhound", and so of "chowish", running amok on the boards. The question then becomes, as a way to settle the question what "chowish" means, "What's a chowhound, really?".

So what's a chowhound, really?

[Katie Nell]

This is my definition, and my definition only, but for me, it's someone who is more passionate about food than the average person.

[Robert Lauriston]

What is a Chowhound?

A Chowhound is someone who spends nearly every waking moment planning her or his next meal. Whether eating in a white-tablecloth restaurant or grabbing takeout on the way to work, Chowhounds hate to ingest anything undelicious. They won't hesitate to go far, far out of their way for even slightly better.

http://www.chowhound.com/home/faq

[eleatic stranger]

Mr. Lauriston's definition didn't specify "fresh" or "lovingly made" food particularly. In fact, it's compatible with his definition that stale food made by a curmudgeon could be chowish so long as the one who indulges finds it delicious...

[bbqboy]

You're right. I added the fresh and lovingly made.
Here's our PNW kind of Chowish debate.
How far would you drive to get a Chowhound Meal?

http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...

[eleatic stranger]

Thanks for the replies. I guess what's particularly puzzling to me is when the word is used in what (for all I can tell) are incompatible senses. For instance, surely one can find posts which suggest some spendy restaurant (sorry, I couldn't resist using "spendy") isn't particularly chowish. But one can also find posts which confess that taking delight in some tasty, though perhaps mass produced, potato chips isn't chowish.

Am I wrong that these are incompatible uses?

[bbqboy]

Well, different foods, places, and sensibilities seem Chowish or not, depending on which regional boards we're talkin' about.
Things are are a lot different on the "Big Boards" like SF, LA, NY
than on the "homey" boards like the Midwest , PNW, The South.....
Things differ both in attitude and # of posts.

[Katie Nell]

So, then I'm the one that made you irritated...
I was using the word in the sense that I knew that a lot of Chowhounds would probably look down on me because I like a mass-produced chip... maybe I should have said "Chowhoundish"... would that of made you feel better? (Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to find out why it irked you!)

[eleatic stranger]

I'm sorry if you have the impression that I'm irked. I'm not, just puzzled.

[Katie Nell]

Well, you used irksome in the original post, so I assumed, that you were indeed irked.

[eleatic stranger]

That was in the context of a question about what those-in-the-know think! I didn't mean to imply that my answer to that question was yes, since I don't count as one of those-in-the-know...

[prunefeet]

You know, I think true hounds can appreciate all levels of food, and need not look down on mass produced chips, for instance. If you love it, it's chowish to anyway. It's about the passion! just a little side note...

[Robert Lauriston]

To me, the Chowhound aesthetic is one of emprical subjectivity.

If I find something delicious, it doesn't matter if it's mass-produced, cheap, trendy, or advertised on TV.

If I don't find something delicious, it doesn't matter how much I paid for it, what kind of references or pedigress it has, or how elaborately it's plated and served.

If you like to eat something for some reason other than deliciousness--for example, nostalgia for Count Chocula or frozen fishsticks--you could say that was not chowish.

[Katie Nell]

Right, in a delusional Chowhound world, it would be that way. But, people often get flamed for saying that they love, let's say McDonald's Filet O' Fish, for example.

[The Dairy Queen]

People might flame you for it, but no one can tell you what tastes good to you. Taste is a subjective thing, and you like what you like. It makes it easier to "defend" your position here on the forum if you can be specific about what specifically appeals to you in a certain food, but, at the end of the day, we're all entitled to our own opinions, even when we disagree.

~TDQ

[Robert Lauriston]

People who think there's great food at McDonald's have the Chains board, where they won't annoy people who know better.

[The Dairy Queen]

I believe the McDonald's thread was on the Chains board...and, yes, the debate did border on "flamey."

~TDQ

[prunefeet]

Oops, you said it first, and said it better.

[silence9]

Bit of a tangent, but when posters refer to the (higher) cost of a meal as 'spendy', I wince. 'Spendy' doesn't seem to be much of a shorthand phrase for anything, but rather an ill-fitting catch-phrase employed for lack of a better description of pricing. No big deal really, and I suppose it's the awkward sound of the term that actually bugs me...

[Das Ubergeek]

That's an Upper Midwest thing -- things in Minnesota are definitely getting spendy.

[Robert Lauriston]

"My friends thought the place was good but they're not very chowish" = they aren't very critical about food.

"Any chowish places in the area?" = worth seeking out for good food

[jillp]

I don't find it irksome or even cute; it serves as shorthand in a couple of senses. It can be used to describe behavior appropriate to a Chowhound. For example: "My husband was particularly chowish last weekend; he made puff pastry from scratch and then a creme anglaise to go with it."

It can also describe the quality of a food, letting readers know that it's the sort of thing those of us who read Chowhound might find interesting.