31732 Mon Sep 27 16:00:19 -0700 2004 12 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 139343 a recent thread on the irish bank brought up an old question of mine. is guinness really different in it's various forms? i've actually spoken to irishmen who won't touch the stuff here in the states, claiming it's nothing like the real thing. but i haven't had the pleasure of a research trip to ireland, so i can't confirm this for myself. and aside from draught, what about the various portable versions? finally, just here in the bay area, is there a place that pours superior guinness, and who has the cheapest pint, imperial or otherwise? obrigado Mon Sep 27 16:00:19 -0700 2004 0 ed 1 139347 Having had the great good fortune to visit the Guinness distillery in Dublin - what you get here is vastly different. I don't really much like beer but I sure liked what I drank there. I believe we were told it isn't even made there - the stuff you buy here. Mon Sep 27 16:23:06 -0700 2004 139343 0 Mad 1 139348 I have had multiple people that Guiness is "graded". The first grade stays in Ireland, the second grade goes to commonwealth countries. The third grade goes everywhere else. So I believe the answer is "No, there is no place in the Bay Area where you can get the first grade of Guiness" Mon Sep 27 16:23:47 -0700 2004 139343 0 Pssst 1 139352 My brother in law lives in Dublin. He refuses to drink the Guinness in England, even. Only in Ireland. This suggests the earlier theory could be true. I have never drank a Guinness as good as the one I did have in Dublin, not here, not in London, not anywhere. Before I had a chance to test it myself I thought the distinction was just a rumour or a fallacy. But once you try it in the Emerald Isle, no other Guinness anywhere els quites lives up to the original. Although I am sure someone told me recently that they stopped making Guinness in the original Dublin factory. Not sure how that affects things... Mon Sep 27 16:50:52 -0700 2004 139343 0 Sixy Beast 1 139370 Guinness is owned by an English company now, btw. in bottles it is carbonated, although very little. Have you been to Ireland's 32 on Geary? this reminds me how Budweiser tastes better in England. Guinness is stout, not beer as we know it. Mon Sep 27 18:14:24 -0700 2004 139343 0 sailorbuoys 1 139372 The Star and Plough, The Chieftain, Mad Dog and The Pig and Whistle all pull good pints. The Guinness in Ireland is much better than here, but that doesn't mean the Guinness here isn't good; just not as good. I believe that Guinness is brewed in the US under contract, so the ingrediants are different (eg water). Mon Sep 27 18:19:13 -0700 2004 139343 0 SF-Glen 1 139375 Multiple versions of Guinness for different markets? Brilliant!!! Different levels of alcohol content by volume served in each? Brilliant!!! Not sure about the absolute best SF source for strictly Guinness pints or other units of measurement, but the Edinburgh Castle in the Tenderloin pours some very fine examples of a Black and Tan (Guinness and Bass Ale) and they also serve up an excellent Half and Half (Guinness and Harp Lager). This discussion reminds me of a story that takes place at a beer festival in Ireland, where the various Presidents from different breweries were sitting in a pub for a beer. The Corona President says to the bartender: "Senior, I'd like the world's best beer -- a Corona". Bartender grabs a dusty bottle from the shelf and hands it to him. The Budweiser President says: "Bartender, I'll have the King of Beers, a Budweiser." The Coors President: "I'd like the only beer that's made from pure Rocky Mountain Spring Water, a Coors". The Guinness President says: "Bartender, I'll have a Coke." The other Presidents then ask him: "Hey, why aren't you drinking a Guinness?" To which, he replies: "Well, since you guys aren't drinking beer, neither will I." Let us close with a famous Irish prayer (overheard): "May you be in Heaven at least 30 minutes before the devil finds out you're dead". Mon Sep 27 19:05:03 -0700 2004 139343 0 wedgeheadjunkie 1 139387 The Irish will tell you that Guinness doesn't travel, so there is no way you can have a good pint here. Even in Dublin, some people believe that good pints can only be had in pubs that are near the Guinness factory. I have had quite a few pints of Guinness in Dublin, and even there there are definitely nuances across pubs. However, I think the differences are due much more to the bartender pulling the pint than to any distance issues. There are 51 Guinness factories around the world, and supposedly the largest production is at the factory in Nigeria! Guinness in the US used to come from a factory in NY state, but that plant has since closed and all the Guinness served here comes straight from the St James's Gate brewery in Dublin. So provenance should not be an issue, though transportation could be. The main problem with getting a good pint in San Francisco is that very few bartenders know how to pull the pint. It involves tilting the glass at the right angle (usually 45 degrees) and filling it about 3/4 full, then letting it rest for a bit, and then filling it up to the rim. The rest time is critical to getting the pint right. Wait too long, and you end up with a dead pint, do it too quick and the head doesn't develop right and you end up with too many bubbles in the beer. Similarly, once you get your pint, you cannot wait too long to drink it, as the head will turn from creamy to foamy with time, at which point it needs to be discarded. On a good pint, the head should be creamy rather than foamy (a bit like on a good cappucino), and it will stick to the sides of the glass as it rests, giving you the famous guinness rings on your glass when you're done. The beer itself should taste just a tad sweet and chocolatey, whereas I get a more bitter and burnt coffe taste on a bad pint. As for the pre-packaged Guinness, your best bet is those Guinness draught cans, as they contain a little widget that dispenses nitrogen to give the head to the beer as you pour it. Just make sure the can is chilled properly when you open it, and pour the contents into a good glass (preferrably an actual Guinness glass). Unlike regular beer, the bottles are actually not as good as the cans, mostly because they do not have the widget to dispense the nitrogen. I tend to avoid Guinness in San Francisco, having had too many poor pints over the years. But in general, try to stick to an Irish pub, where high turnover should result in fresher kegs, on a night when they're not too busy, so they don't let your pint linger too long during the pour, and preferrably with an Irish bartender, as they are more likely to be trained properly. There's an urban myth in Dublin about the Guinness employee who accidentally fell into a vat of beer and tragically died. The question the Irish ponder is: “Did he suffer?” Dubliners proudly respond: “Of course not! He got out 8 times to use the toilet!” Mon Sep 27 20:28:01 -0700 2004 139343 0 Malik 2 139415 I had a long rag on blind tasting versus some vacation theory that they must ship an inferior product to the US. But I will let the Guiness web site tell some of the detail, to wit: In how many countries worldwide is GUINNESS® stout brewed and sold? In November 1995, GUINNESS® brewed locally was launched in El Salvador, making it the 51st country in which GUINNESS® is brewed and the 150th in which it is sold. How much GUINNESS® is sold worldwide? 10 million glasses of GUINNESS® are enjoyed every single day around the world, and 1,883,200,000 pints are sold every year. Is it true that you get a much better pint in Ireland? For GUINNESS® brewed outside Ireland the water will be different of course because we always use pure, fresh water from local natural sources. In blind tests though, (with a bunch of highly cynical journalists!), none of our sample could tell the difference. That said, all GUINNESS® sold in North America is brewed in Ireland at the historic St .James's Gate Brewery in Dublin. So, the only real difference you should be able to spot is the pub that you're drinking in! (back to editorializing) There is some variation in freshness, poor handling in transit, poor barkeeping (pulling), etc. I assume the beer sits on a boat, then a train to get to SF. That is a lot of wear, even if kept cool. The best you can do is to visit somewhere that has frequent turnover. Because no bar is going to dump half a keg of beer just because it's old/stale/cooked, etc. And avoid the canned stuff which is total crap. Link: http://www.guinness.com/guinness/en_ZZ/knowing/pearls/faqs/0,6415,125540_126325,00.html Tue Sep 28 01:24:44 -0700 2004 139387 0 SteveT 2 139439 Re Shipping Beer When I was travelling in Northern England about 20 years ago I had Newcastle Brown (on draft) for the first time in Newcastle. Several days later I caused some amusement at a pub about 30 miles outside of Newcastle when I asked why they were all drinking Newcastle from bottles. "Everyone knows Newcastle doesn't travel well. Outside the city limits bottles are better than draught. [You American fool]" About four weeks later I moved San Francisco, where the latest beer in the lower Haight was Newcastle on draft. Everybody swearing that the draft was better than any bottle. Tue Sep 28 12:24:14 -0700 2004 139387 0 SF-Glen 1 139408 Well, I certainly thought the Guinness I drank in London last time I was there was better than that here in Reno!!! (although that may not be saying much; and the food was so lousy at our hotel that anything would have tasted good!)....However, a beer distributor I know and trust told me that there is indeed a difference; he says its due to pasteurization requirements here. FWIW. Mon Sep 27 23:32:37 -0700 2004 139343 0 janetofreno 1 139420 I have traveled the US extensively for work/fun, and have tipped a many pints of Guinness. . In San Francisco, I have enjoyed drinking with real "off the boat" Irish folks who drink at the Fiddler's Green located at 1333 Columbus Ave, San Francisco, 415-441-9758. Cross St: Beach. It's small, close to the Fishermans Wharf tourist trap; however, the touristy types never stop in. The bartenders are Irish, and they know how to serve up a proper pint of Guinness. Try it, its worth the cab fair! BTW.....the best pulled pint in Philadelphia is at the Bishops Collar located on Fairmont Ave. You will not be disappointed. Tue Sep 28 03:01:26 -0700 2004 139343 0 Mangler-Irish-Hockey-Stud 1 139427 Dunno if it's the best, or the cheapest, but the Holy Cow pours a mean Irish Car Bomb: Irish Car Bomb - 1/2 pint(s) Guiness Beer - 1/2 oz Bailey's Irish Cream - 1/2 oz Irish Whiskey Directions/Comments: Mix the Bailey's and the whiskey in a shot glass, drop it in the Guiness, and chug. Tastes like a chocolate shake, but after several of these you will feel like an Irish Car Bomb victim (at least in the morning anyway). Tue Sep 28 11:03:39 -0700 2004 139343 0 Anne in SF