316733 Fri Aug 11 12:23:11 -0700 2006 40 29 Not About Food 0 1801430 Forgive me for being TDQ-come-lately to this, but I have a few questions about the locavore trend. 1. Is it a trend? Any you have first-hand experience with this? 2. How does one balance the locavore diet with being a chowhound? I certainly believe that pursuing the freshest, most seasonal ingredients is consistent with the pursuit of deliciousness, but what about authenticity of ethnic cuisines? 3. I understand how Northern Californians can be locavores without sacrificing much, but what about those who live in climates where there may be 90 or fewer frost free (growing) days a year? Is it realistic to be a locavore then? 4. I was looking at the eating locavore decision tree. "If not local, then organic," then, "if not organic, then family farm." I would actually choose from a family farm first, then organic. I'm curious what the rest of you think. http://www.locavores.com/home.php For those of you who are more lately than me, locavores attempt to eat only food raised within 100 miles of their home for environmental reasons. If you can't eat LOCALLY PRODUCED, then Organic. If not ORGANIC, then Family farm. If not FAMILY FARM, then Local business. If not a LOCAL BUSINESS, then Terroir, ie., foods famous for the region they are grown in (i.e., Brie cheese from Brie.) I'm not a locavore, but I am thinking about it. I've been doing a lot of thinking about sustainable living and my impact on the planet. As always, thank you for sharing your thoughts. ~TDQ Fri Aug 11 12:23:11 -0700 2006 12005 The Dairy Queen 1 1801594 I'm a sorta locavore. I look for locally produced foods, in particular fruits and vegetables in season. As you mentioned, this isn't practical all year round in a colder climate, so compromise is necessary. I prefer to buy directly from the person who produces my food. It's the only way to get straight answers about how it's produced - how are animals kept, what do they put on their crops etc. And you also get a sense of what farming means to them. Is it just a business, do they take pride in their products? If I can't buy directly from the farmer, I look for good quality products sold by knowledgable sellers. Usually this means smaller stores where the people working there are responsible for choosing the products and can tell you why. As for organic vs non-organic, I think this is a factor but only one of many. I would prefer my foods to be free of chemicals, but in some cases that produces inferior goods. The quality of the product is more important to me. In some cases that means conventional farming and that's OK with me. All of this means that I'm paying more for food and spending more time looking for it than if I shopped at the nearest WalMart Superstore. So I make choices about what I buy based on what my budget can stand. For many, this is a huge factor in what they buy, perhaps the most important one. Fri Aug 11 13:55:31 -0700 2006 1801430 12335 cheryl_h 1 1801669 Thank you, Cheryl for your reply. Your approach sounds similar to the philosophy I'm moving towards. I agree with prioritizing buying directly from the person producing your food whenever possible over just buying simply based on the "organic" label, although, I confess, I haven't always been able to resist a Sam's Club bargain. But, I'm feeling less and less okay about that. A part of me feels that, if I'm not buying it local--organic or no-- at least buying "organic" from Sam's Club on occasion encourages good behavior on the part of one of the big guys. I would think having Sam's Club buying organic in enormous quantities has to be better for the environment than for them to not buy organic. It just shows you that this is not all black and white, I think. ~TDQ Fri Aug 11 14:35:26 -0700 2006 1801430 12005 The Dairy Queen 2 1801698 I'm also uneasy about buying the organic label from megamarts. WalMart is going to sell organic this year. I doubt they are going to look for produce that is grown well by farmers concerned about sustainable agriculture. I think they will force their suppliers to deliver organic produce at low cost, and that means either that farmers will have to cut corners or WalMart will find farmers who look for loopholes in the organic label. Earthbound who produce the biggest share of the US organic salad greens is an example of Big Organic. This link (from Michael Pollan's website) describes how they evolved from a small farm to a megacorporation: http://www.michaelpollan.com/press.php?id=49 As you say, it's not all black and white. Fri Aug 11 14:49:25 -0700 2006 1801669 12335 cheryl_h 3 1802116 There was a great op-ed yesterday in the Grist on the subject of corporations going organic: http://www.grist.org/comments/soapbox/2006/08/10/renstrom-perkowitz/index.html?source=daily Fri Aug 11 17:10:39 -0700 2006 1801698 12766 welle 4 1805058 Wow. That's a fascinating story. Look at this article on Walmart's green strategy. Walmart has a green strategy! The former head of the Sierra Club is a consultant to Walmart and Al Gore gave a presentation to Walmart execs. Pretty wild. http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/7/19/124747/844 ~TDQ Sun Aug 13 14:44:16 -0700 2006 1802116 12005 The Dairy Queen 3 1803768 Thank you for sharing that link. I guess my takeaway from that (relative to my question, there are many other interesting points in the article) is that if you're buying the organically-produced produce from the "big growers" rather than from your local grower, you're still taxing the planet with the fuel it took to transport your produce. But, it would then seem better for the earth to choose organic over non-organic if you're having it shipped from afar. But, the marginal positive impact of choosing "big" organic shipped from afar over local-non-organic is relatively small. Another take-away is that "big" organic producers are likely cutting corners in order to remain competitive and you're likely losing some of the positive impact you may have been hoping to have on social and animal welfare (over and above the environmental, energy conservation issues) ~TDQ Sat Aug 12 12:04:03 -0700 2006 1801698 12005 The Dairy Queen 4 1806595 TDQ, I agree with you on corporate organics, and I was first to be suspicious of Walmart going organic. It is much easier for big corporations to get certified 'organic', and they probably can find tons of regulatory loopholes. But their industrial output and impact on environment is so much greater than a dozen of local farms, even the littlest changes probably make much difference. When Pat Robertson talks about Global Warming, I think we're onto something. If you're truly concerned about your carbon emissions, here is a great article on where to start: http://www.nrdc.org/thisgreenlife/pdf/0606.pdf Mon Aug 14 15:22:09 -0700 2006 1803768 12766 welle 5 1808411 Very interesting info in that link--including greeh catering for weddings! Thank you! ~TDQ Tue Aug 15 02:57:55 -0700 2006 1806595 12005 The Dairy Queen 1 1802060 i would never associate myself with the title of "locavore", it just has this impression that you're abiding by certain rules but i think you need to pick your own rules regarding what makes you comfortable. but this is exactly the same for me as people who claim they're vegetarian but eat fish, no hun, you're a pescetarian. i actually live in toronto, canada... not exactly a haven for fresh produce year round. but for the month of may i tried an eat local challenge and came up with a few realizations. i've continued similar shopping habits but relaxed my restrictions of that month. first and foremost, you need to set your reasoning behind this and that will help determine that tree of exceptions with reasonable aims. are you concerned about supporting local farms? removing chemicals from your food? good eating period? environmental causes? big chain domination? while it's good to visit the farms you might be buying from... in a way i find it ridiculous that if you're concerned about the environment that one might shuttle themselves out on their lone car to get this information when said farmer is likely to be at your nearest farmer's market a couple days later. anyways... second, do not be intimidated. start small and consider everything you already have "local" but get to know the people in your neighbourhood who are in the know plus question question question anyone you buy items from. there are so many people who will glady tell you their full story and how they produce their food. i ended up meeting a woman who would host local/organic dinners in her house once a month using a lot of items she grew in her own garden. in turn i also met an organic farmer who produces much of his own stuff but does carry the generic mass organic items as well. i tend to focus on what he offers locally and have found some fantastic items he's hybridized himself. third, if you're worried at all about the colder months... since you're starting at a very prime season i'd suggest already starting to consider purchasing more than you can regularly consume fresh and freezing or learning how to pickle/can. it's not very difficult and threads about preserving are always popping up on home cooking. lastly.... ethnic food. that part killed me. i'm chinese and grew up on congee (a vast majority of the rice produced these days comes from california), noodle soups, spicy bamboo shoots, etc etc. and for me to find many of these items as organic was a lost cause, local just as difficult. so i would go into terrible bouts of frustration not being able to at least eat my fallback comfort foods. as a chowhound, you can't feel guilty about it. there are so many cultural foods that you would never be able to get where you live without imports. if your greater concern is politics/pesticides then it's not as big of a deal, but if you're simply trying to give your food more ethical thought then remember that you're allowed leeway for the sake of tastiness. Fri Aug 11 16:53:32 -0700 2006 1801430 10634 pinstripeprincess 2 1803783 You raise some interesting points, pinstripeprincess (look! a princess and a queen in the same thread--so much faux royalty!) I've been thinking about doing something like you did, maybe a "trial" month of eating local (I'd better hurry while the weather's good and there's lots of fresh produce!) I've also thought about a concept I read on the Sierra Club's website called "Sustainable Tuesdays," where you pick one day a week to live your life in as sustainably as possible. I like the sustainable Tuesday thing because, if you stick with it, over the course of a year, you've had good habits 1/7th of the time, which is actually quite a lot. My guess is the good habits would spill over (similar to how your good habits spilled over after your month-long trial,) and you'd be continually experimenting and transitioning new good habits in. As far as the question: are you concerned about supporting local farms? removing chemicals from your food? good eating period? environmental causes? big chain domination? The answers are yes, yes, yes, yes, not necessarily. You can kind of see my problem, I want to do everything all at once. (As far as big chain domination, I'm not against big chains for the sake of being against them, I'm only against them if they aren't pursuing the same social and environmental goals I am and if they are crushing the local guys.) So, it's really hard to try to decide what the best approach to take is when you can't decide what your priorities are. I think I've finally started zeroing in on the eating local concept as meeting most of my goals. As far as ethnic foods, yes, I think that's just going to have to be an exception. I don't really see anything around it. What am I going to do, substitute locally-grown wild rice for the rice in Asian foods? That just won't do. ~TDQ Sat Aug 12 12:26:05 -0700 2006 1802060 12005 The Dairy Queen 3 1804845 maybe we should hold court one day ;) i think your sustainable tuesdays are a good idea. my going cold turkey was a really extreme way of immersing myself into it and while i don't regret it, it just wasn't very realistic. there's a lot to learn about these things and beyond just doing sustainable tuesdays, you might want to make sure that you learn one new thing each week to keep challenging yourself and recognize that you're moving forward from where you were before. there are tonnes of ingredients that you can use to replace what you have, but i sometimes found i got into a rut and was just buying the same things from the same farmers. my thing about chain domination is slightly exacerbated by my reading of omnivore's dilemma. while i was doing the challenge, i realized how ridiculous whole foods was and completely useless they were to my cause. nearly everything was shipped in from CA to fulfill their organic needs with a TEENY portion recognizing Ontario grown. Additionally, should organic be a backup for you, Earthbound farms primarily grows their massive amounts of product from CA as well... so it travels a fair distance to ensure organic. You seem to be on the ball with most of your research though, so I won't rant any longer! for the challenge I took in May, a blogging effort, there was a website created by the organizer that is still going fairly strong. http://eatlocalchallenge.com/ you might find some helpful information for the area that you live in. my beef with the blog however is that nearly ALL the contributors own gardens or are not working full time and they don't cover a proper demographic to be good inspiration so much as something to curse at when you can't do as much as them. i read it sporadically. something else that you might want to look into is http://slowfood.com/ they just focus on slow food, the idea of rejecting fast food society and taking a step back to appreciate all that you have. events might be taking place in your area and conviva in your location might be able to provide you more information about sources for products. best of luck! Sun Aug 13 06:25:54 -0700 2006 1803783 10634 pinstripeprincess 4 1805628 Wonderful links, thank you. I like the advice to try to learn 1 new thing every week so you don't get in a rut. :) ~TDQ Sun Aug 13 23:17:11 -0700 2006 1804845 12005 The Dairy Queen 2 1803872 Thanks for all of your practical suggestions and thoughts on this. Your comment about driving to farms made me laugh, as I almost did that very thing ... I was seriously considering joining a CSA this year, but I would have had to drive about 45 miles roundtrip each week to pick up my share. As much as I wanted to support the farm, it just didn't make sense. I love the thought of hosting an organic dinner like the woman you mentioned. I don't garden (shady yard + dog who loves vegetables = no luck), but I have friends who do and, like all good gardeners, love to share their bounty. I may have to suggest a group dinner. Sat Aug 12 14:35:28 -0700 2006 1802060 18533 tapas 3 1804851 you're very welcome! to be honest, i did the challenge to provide a starting point for information about the entire experience within my own city. so many people in CA do it that i'm up to my eyeballs in their experiences but it doesn't help the girl stuck in the frozen wasteland. a group dinner is a fantastic idea! people were posting about their overabundance of items like zucchini and it would be such an ideal way to get rid of it. it would really be a fun way to assess the random items you have left and to just cook and experiment. looking at my post above, there's a link for slowfood http://slowfood.com that might interest you. they hold events regularly varying in price. their big fundraiser is to send artisans and farmers from your area to a large conference about slowfood in italy. you know what's also another interesting branch of all of this... foraging wild foods. there are often guides, books and people who are interested in this kind of thing and do it all the time. if you have time to garden, but no garden, what better way to spend it than reaping the benefits of a good ol' mother nature. Sun Aug 13 06:35:30 -0700 2006 1803872 10634 pinstripeprincess 3 4693084 Depending on where you live, you might be able to find a CSA who will come to you. It makes no sense to drive 45 miles every Saturday to pick up a basket of produce, but it does make sense for one farmer to drive 45 miles to drop off 30 baskets of produce at a central location. My friends do this, sharing the basket with another couple as there is way too much food for two people. Every weekend is like a little neighborhood party as folks walk over to the church basement where all the food is delivered. Mon May 18 00:32:32 -0700 2009 1803872 86221 lulubelle 1 1802127 Thanks for raising the topic of local vs. organic vs. I've got to eat something! ... I've been thinking about this a great deal too. Cheryl's suspicion about Walmart's negative impact on organic agriculture is confirmed in a February 2006 article in Consumer Reports. As with every regulation, there are loopholes in laws surrounding organic agriculture, and the increased demand for organic produce may encourage less ethical suppliers to jump in the game and exploit those loopholes. But other major companies take advantage of the loopholes. The article cites that "Horizon [Organic] says it uses no antibiotics or growth hormones in its organic herd, though it can't control what animals eat before they arrive there." That just takes the meaning out of their organic label, doesn't it? (Edited to add -- forgot to mention that the article notes Horizon was bought by Dean Foods in 2003 ... I wonder how/if their business practices have changed from pre-Dean days?) I hate to mention just one company -- I'm sure there are others -- and I appreciate how Horizon cares for their cows, as their farm is probably a much better place than most commercial farms, but things like that just muddle the decision for everyone. I think TDQ nailed it by saying that being so conscientious about our food choices takes time, more than most of us are willing to give. I love food and I'm working toward living a "greener" lifestyle, and I still fall prey to buying the cheap box or bag of whatever sometimes. I also think that most of us are so disconnected from our food sources that we don't see first-hand how our choices impact our world. Fri Aug 11 17:13:31 -0700 2006 1801430 18533 tapas 2 1803790 Those are all good points, tapas. That's why I've been thinking about doing the sustainable Tuesdays thing, where one day a week I endeavor to be mindful about how my choices impact the world. Even just being more mindful just one seventh of the time, can add up. It's a lot less overwhelming and a lot more practical than changing your entire way of living all at once. ~TDQ Sat Aug 12 12:35:16 -0700 2006 1802127 12005 The Dairy Queen 3 1803868 I really like the idea of having a sustainable/local day, too, and you all have inspired me to give it a shot. Since "do no harm" is simply not possible, I can at least try to lessen my impact. And to forgive myself when I'm less mindful than I aspire to be. We're all full of inconsistencies! Sat Aug 12 14:26:42 -0700 2006 1803790 18533 tapas 1 1805868 I'd not only buy family farm before organic, I'd buy family farm before local. Mon Aug 14 02:19:00 -0700 2006 1801430 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 1806285 I think that makes you a familyfarmavore, then. :) Funny, though, when I think "local," that almost means "family farm" in my mind. If you're shopping in your grocery or farmers market, a product that is "family farm" is almost certain to be "local," but not the converse: "local" is not always family farm. I can thinking of a major grocer, Cub Foods, in my area that touts that its produce is more local than the nationals, but that doesn't mean its from a "family farm." I can't really think of a product from a family farm that I've seen in my market that isn't local. This almost brings us back to the point pinstripeprincess made about not labeling oneself and just being mindful and informed about our food choices. Interesting thinking, thank you. ~TDQ Mon Aug 14 13:05:04 -0700 2006 1805868 12005 The Dairy Queen 1 1806874 To throw another wrench into the monkeyworks with regard to local vs. organic, I've read of multiple cases where local farmers decline to get certified organic (though for most intents and purposes they are) because the certification process is too expensive or actually requires them to be less environmental. For example, apparently to be certified organic in the US, you must use certified organic fertilizer (if you use manufactured fertilizer). If you don't have a local supplier, this requirement means the farmer has to drive a long distance to get the fertilizer or have it transported a long distance. Not an ideal situation. Mon Aug 14 16:57:01 -0700 2006 1801430 11819 Low Country Jon 2 1808419 Yes, the process to get certified can be very cumbersome. I've also heard of potential abuse where people get certified organic, collect "premium" prices for their good, don't properly rotate their crops thereby depleting all the nutrients from the soil, then move on. :( It is really very complex. It pays to be inquisitive and informed, I think. ~TDQ Tue Aug 15 03:01:23 -0700 2006 1806874 12005 The Dairy Queen 1 1806895 1. Is it a trend? Yes, it's trendy. Any you have first-hand experience with this? Not in practice; I am happy when buying local works out for me, but it's not practical, as there are hardly enough farms within 100 miles that distribute in ways I can readily access without excessive pollution on my own.... 2. How does one balance the locavore diet with being a chowhound? I certainly believe that pursuing the freshest, most seasonal ingredients is consistent with the pursuit of deliciousness, but what about authenticity of ethnic cuisines? "Authenticity" is, well, problematic as a concept. I don't get hung up on it as such; to me if a more traditional approach yields better results, then that's great. It's also important to pass techniques down that might get lost. But if it can be improved upon, that's also great. 3. I understand how Northern Californians can be locavores without sacrificing much, but what about those who live in climates where there may be 90 or fewer frost free (growing) days a year? Is it realistic to be a locavore then? Not really. 4. I was looking at the eating locavore decision tree. "If not local, then organic," then, "if not organic, then family farm." I would actually choose from a family farm first, then organic. I'm curious what the rest of you think. "Terroir" is full of contradictions for the rest. American-made Brie-style is likely to be tastier than the fake Brie we import from France (we cannot import raw milk Brie). And lots more pollution from transporting it so far.... * * * Generally, I eschew ideological approaches to food. As I've noted before, I prefer my dogma in my religion than in my food. Mon Aug 14 17:06:07 -0700 2006 1801430 13819 Karl S 2 1806942 The law says raw milk Brie can't be imported. In actuality I can get Brie de Meaux many places around Boston - Formaggio's and Russo's both stock it. Pasteurized milk Brie tastes like boiled rubber compared to the real thing. Mon Aug 14 17:27:16 -0700 2006 1806895 12335 cheryl_h 3 1806995 That "Brie de Meaux" is not genuine raw milk Brie under 60 days; it's older than that. It's not the real deal, for a reason. Blythedale Farm's Brie is, IMO, the best bet locally. Mon Aug 14 17:47:19 -0700 2006 1806942 13819 Karl S 4 1807032 Brie de Meaux is certainly raw milk cheese, and is one of the two AOC Brie cheeses - Brie de Melun is the second. It is typically 4-6 weeks old when imported, hence it is illegal. Whole Foods does not stock it for this reason. Mon Aug 14 17:55:29 -0700 2006 1806995 12335 cheryl_h 5 1807058 Really? I had always read that the "Brie de Meaux" we see here in the US is aged more than 60 days. Mon Aug 14 18:06:16 -0700 2006 1807032 13819 Karl S 5 1807067 I'm on good terms with the cheese people at my local Whole Foods. I asked why they couldn't get Brie de Meaux and was told it was under 60 days old, also one of their stores was raided and all raw milk cheese under 60 days, included the Brie de Meaux, was confiscated. I was also told where I could find it locally. I schlepp 40 miles round trip to buy it because I don't think anything else compares. Mon Aug 14 18:10:57 -0700 2006 1807032 12335 cheryl_h 2 1808436 Sounds like a lot of common sense, Karl! I'm too impulsive to be too dogmatic, but I do like to have well-informed opinions on these matters. I didn't even know there was such a controversy about Brie! That's a mini-education in itself. Thank you! ~TDQ Tue Aug 15 03:07:26 -0700 2006 1806895 12005 The Dairy Queen 1 4688234 Another problem according to a friend of mine (who tried it) is that, if you are strict locavore you also have to escew a surpising number of spices and seasonings, since many of them, by definition are only "local" if you live in the middle of the tropics. This means that a lot of recipes become either impossible or so bland that they really anrent worth eating. No black pepper, no Cinnamon, no Ginger, No cardmom, no allspice, no citrus etc. Oh and becuse of where he lived, no salt either since there were no deposits anywhere near him. Fri May 15 18:33:00 -0700 2009 4688011 24492 jumpingmonk 1 4688439 Even before reading Pollan's book, I have always tried to eat local and/or organic food. And yes, living in Northern California gives me a huge advantage - year-round great produce! - that I couldn't have back on the East Coast, where I grew up. The advantages include being more in touch with the seasons, healthier (and really, noticeably tastier!) produce, and knowing that one is having as minimal an impact on the environment as possible. I cannot justify supermarket, and especially not "Big Box," so-called organics, as I think that completely defeats the purpose. But I don't drive a car, anyhow, so I shop locally by foot or by bike, hardly conducive to purchasing huge flats of "organic" spring mix from Costco or Wal-Mart, anyhow... I haven't gotten around to emulating my sister-in-law & her husband, who participate in a "CSA Box" that they pick up in various locations in the City every two weeks...this really forces them to be creative with the local and organic items they receive. It's fun, but sometimes a bit of a chore to try to find a use for a huge bunch of some herb you've never seen before - sort of like a "Mystery Box" or some kind of Top Chef challenge! Fri May 15 20:13:51 -0700 2009 1801430 134351 Morticia 1 4688510 I support local businesses whether they be restaurants, retailers, jewelers, car dealers, service providers, etc. Yet I find two problems with being a locavore: #1 - Accessibility. In addition to seasonal shortages of produce, I am very constrained by my work schedule. Weekdays I cannot shop until after 8pm. The Farmer's Market is on Saturday mornings, and I work until 4pm. My one day off is Sundays and the local place that specializes in local produce is closed. This means that I am usually stuck shopping at grocery chains. #2 - Cost. We just bought a house and are on a budget. While my conscience might prefer that $3.99/lb veggie, my pocketbook would prefer the $1.99/lb one. In stores (not talking farmer's markets since that isn't an option), local and organic are more expensive. This is why I'm glad more and more restaurants are sourcing locally. I have numerous friends who own local joints and am more than happy to give them my business. And once or twice they've bought an extra pound of something for me :) Fri May 15 20:52:47 -0700 2009 1801430 76025 mojoeater 1 4699384 It's just another marketing term disguised as a lifestyle choice. Buying local is a great trend, but to do so for political reasonings, or as part of a manifesto is dangerous. Clearly people need to be able to buy and sell from outside their region, just as we aren't going to start limiting ourselves from our favorite imports. Are so called localvores also going to limit their recipes to regional fare as well? Of course not, and why should they? The accent should be on fresh locally grown items, and supporting businesses local to you when you can, but only when feasible. It's up to local growers and distributors to try and take advantage of the current interest in their products by making them accesible, and feasible, and best yet, of good quality. It shouldn't be a status thing though. Tue May 19 21:59:41 -0700 2009 1801430 145096 sugartoof 2 4699567 Hey sugartoof, the OP chiming in here. I can't believe it, but I posted my original query almost three years ago. Since then, I've become a pretty faithful locavore, although I hate the label and would never call myself that. I have not reached the point where I won't buy olive oil (olives don't grow in Minnesota) or sticky rice when I'm cooking Vietnamese (yep, you guessed it, white rice doesn't grow in Minnesota) and so on, but I have really learned to develop a greater appreciation for what grows locally, and, in my opinion most importantly, what's in season locally. If a product is grown locally using extreme means, say, tomatoes in a hot house in Minnesota in winter, it's a poor choice if your goal is to reduce your carbon footprint. As far as from a deliciousness perspective, neither hot house nor shipped green from California tomatoes is a good choice, so, I don't even eat them fresh in winter any more. Instead, I can tomatoes in summer when they are at their peak, and use that all winter long. I simply avoid fresh tomatoes. I can't tell you how many times I used go to a cookbook and choose a recipe, then grow to the grocery store frustrated because "the tomatoes weren't good" or "the asparagus wasn't great" and so on. Now, I use cookbooks that are more seasonally oriented and won't choose a recipe if I know the ingredients aren't in season. Also, I subscribe to a CSA and, well, they only drop off a box of what's in season. Anyway, the main reason why I posted is to address the comment you made about it being a marketing term described as a lifestyle choice. I've done a lot of reading, Peter Singers "The Ethic of What We Eat: Why our Food Choices Matter" comes to mind. One of his primary recommendations is to eat what's local and in season. His most important recommendation, though, is to avoid factory farmed meat and dairy. Lately being a "locavore" has been a good way to support local business while the economy has been in the tank. ~TDQ Wed May 20 03:18:40 -0700 2009 4699384 12005 The Dairy Queen 3 4701411 Well, the two things from your reply that stand out to me are that because of this approach in your life, you're no longer eating fresh tomatoes part of the year. I'm not sure if that's good, in a return to eating seasonal, or if that's worrisome to subtract a fresh ingredient from your staples. I still do see this as a lifestyle choice, which is reinforced for me by how much easier it's become to adhere to such a diet today, compared to a few years ago, thanks to the cook books, and whatnot. People in certain parts of our country have just lived this way without consciously being aware of it, their entire lives. In Vermont, for example, living off the land, canning for the off season, trading resources, is a tradition many towns carry on because it's how they do things. To do so in a city, with a city lifestyle, is a different challenge. I do agree that it's a good way to support our local economies, and that the timing is certainly right for that. Wed May 20 13:29:25 -0700 2009 4699567 145096 sugartoof 4 4701821 You raise a lot of interesting points! If you live in Minnesota, you don't eat fresh ANYTHING from Oct through April, unless it was grown in a hothouse or shipped from afar. The ground freezes in October and unfreezes in about April. It takes until mid May before you can plant and harvest even baby lettuces. It's a reality of the climate here. What we live off all winter long is what we canned in summer, and what we "cellar" over winter (that was picked in Sept/Oct before the ground froze): winter squashes, apples, root vegetables, etc. I can tell you that by February I am mighty sick of celeriac. But, is it a giant sacrifice to exclude "fresh" tomatoes from my diet? Not really. I don't think tomatoes shipped green and hard as a rock from California (or wherever) in January are really all that "fresh". ;-) They taste awful. I honestly think the ones I canned myself in July at the peak of the season taste better, have a higher nutritional value, and support the local farmers. And they certainly have a lower "carbon footprint". Of course, this means I'm not eating very many caprese salads in January, but, instead, a lot of spaghetti and chili. The first BLT sandwich of the year is a thing of beauty, I tell you. :). ~TDQ Wed May 20 15:38:29 -0700 2009 4701411 12005 The Dairy Queen 5 4702022 Well it sounds like you're having fun with it, and certainly committed! I'm not sure everyone needs to roll back the clock to the days before interstate railroads, or trucking, but if you love food and it's not a hardship then this is obviously a positive thing. Seems to me the renewed interest in "homesteading" or "localism" is at a really good point right now. ...somewhere between craft project, and health activism. If it goes the way of the Slow Food mindset, or gets a little too Alice Water-ist with enforcement legislation, then it's time to worry. In the meantime, I hope you allow yourself to splurge here and there. Wed May 20 16:51:34 -0700 2009 4701821 145096 sugartoof 6 4702237 Oh, don't worry about me and splurging! I splurge plenty! ~TDQ Wed May 20 18:32:08 -0700 2009 4702022 12005 The Dairy Queen 5 4703607 well said TDQ! a lot of folks decided at one time that getting rid of little diversified local food systems (called family farms) was a good idea-- instead, we could get all the pork from one location, all the salad from another, and the potatoes, and the wheat. . . but there are problems with industrial agriculture, and now many people are considering supporting the local farms (that still exist) again, and finding a lot of cool local products and dietary variety when they do. it seems to be a common mistake to think that people who commit to eating locally are nutritionally backward luddites, but a lot of the folks who embraced industrial ag 30 years ago have discovered that they no longer have a local foodshed to support even if they wanted to-- they are now completely dependent on trucked-in food goods, and they no longer have a say in how expensive, wasteful, contaminated, or unhealthy these foods might be. meanwhile the person who eats locally enjoys the best of the local growing season, and takes advantage of seasonal produce by preserving it, and her/his local foodshed will tend to grow and produce even better food items as more folks support it. . . nothing really feels as right as eating your own garden's tomato :) Thu May 21 09:31:52 -0700 2009 4701821 46030 soupkitten 6 4704262 I find that misleading, Soupkitten. It's not a matter of folks embracing industrial ag, it's a matter of how food distribution came about, originally to keep farms operating, and cities fed - and how that system was corrupted. The idea that every American will have access to a food pantry, the time and materials to can produce, and a garden to grow is a little far from reality. The idea that the local farms are the best providers isn't always true. I find it problematic that we have deemed something superior based on the idea of it, even though there is no real basis for monitoring "organic products", and those associations that do, had become detrimental to many good growers who didn't join their certification club. Thu May 21 12:38:04 -0700 2009 4703607 145096 sugartoof