HOME > Chowhound > Outer Boroughs >

Discussion

Di Fara history question

Can someone tell me when Dom got pizza religion and start making the pies he is now famous for?

I ask because I grew up in the neighborhood when Di Fara was just a good but nothing special pizza joint (60s to mid-70s).

I'm going this afternoon after a short work day--for the first time since I left the neighborhood in 1978. I'm planning to write about it and I want to get my facts straight. Any other historical details/tidbits/trivia would be appreciated too. Thanks.

http://petercherches.blogspot.com

  1. Click to Upload a photo (10 MB limit)
Delete
  1. If it's still on the site, you should read the original What Jim Had For Dinner when he went to DiFara's back in 97 or thereabouts.

    1. Read this thread -
      http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...

      and scroll down to the part where Steve R. and I both start to discuss Di Fara history.

      4 Replies
      1. re: Bob Martinez

        Bob, great link to a great discussion -- thanks!

          1. re: Peter Cherches

            And thanks, Bob, for being able to dig these threads out so regularly. Dont know how you do it.

            1. re: Steve R

              The new search engine makes it a whole lot easier.

              Now if only they'd resurrect the old Not About Food threads ... there were some real classics there.

        1. I'll post my experience on one of the other, more appropriate, Di Fara threads when I get some more time, but right now another question:

          While the square & round were both excellent, the square was significantly more excellent. Besides the difference in the crust and the fresh basil on top, are there different cheese combinations, sauce variations, other ingredients, etc.?

          1 Reply
          1. re: Peter Cherches

            Absolutely. Maybe Bob M. can dig out another old thread on this or someone with better knowledge of this than me can chime in (unfortunately, the absolute expert on this issue is no longer on CH), but the major example of the difference is the sauce. It's a meat sauce on the square that he simmers in the back and is quite rich. This does not get on the round slices. As I said, details on this would not be my forte.

          2. I might as well just continue on this thread. Here's my long Di Fara report:

            I was never a regular reader of food blogs, bulletin boards or columns until I started writing Word of Mouth earlier this year. One of my greatest surprises when I did start following what other foodies were talking about, especially via Chowhound, was that a pizza place (that's the traditional, official New York term for "pizzeria") from my old neighborhood, Di Fara's, had achieved legendary status among pizza cognoscenti. Now the last time I had eaten at Di Fara's was probably in 1978, the year I left the old neighborhood, Midwood. Back then it was a good, solid, by-the-slice neighborhood pizza place, but I don't remember it being remarkable. So I wondered what all the fuss was about. And I'm talking fuss. At times the Di Fara devotees come across like a weird religious cult.

            What I eventually pieced together, through Chowhound and coverage in other media, like the excellent pizza blog Slice, is that some time in the '80s Di Fara's owner, Dom DeMarco, who opened the place in 1964, got pizza religion and started devoting an almost obsessive artisanal attention on his pies, switching to quality imported ingredients unheard of in most neighborhood pizzerias. I was able to glean from the gospels that Dom achieved pizza divinity by about 1990, and that he continues to tinker with his recipes. Dom, however, plied his trade in relative obscurity until the internet revolutionized the nature of "word of mouth." Some give Chowhound's founder Jim Leff much of the credit, citing a 1997 kvell that caused an avalanche.

            As far as the recipe is concerned, Slice's Adam Kuban writes, "Mr. DeMarco uses a combination of fresh and canned San Marzano tomatoes for the sauce, which he makes daily—sometimes several times a day, from what we understand. Then there's the cheese: a combination of high-quality regular mozzarella, fresh buffalo mozzarella that he imports from Italy, and a dusting of sharp, slightly nutty-tasting grana padana. All this goodness sits atop a thin crust that Dom somehow coaxes to near-coal-oven crispness." There's also the extra virgin olive oil.

            Now the corner of Avenue J and East 15th Street in my old neighborhood is a major foodie's destination. A once-quiet neighborhood pizzeria has become a constantly busy pilgrimmage site. And like any good pilgrimmage site, there are trials to endure.

            The long waits at Di Fara's are legendary, with forty-five minutes for a slice being perhaps the most cited average. A number of factors account for the long wait: Dom's care and precision; the fact that he and he alone makes all the pizzas, from start to finish; the fact that all the pies are freshly baked (i.e., no cold pizzas waiting to be reheated); the fact that only one level of the oven (your basic convection oven, by the way), the one closest to the flame, is used to bake the pies, meaning that there is room for only two at a time; and, of course, the incredible popularity of the place. Another factor is that at times, apparently, Dom works alone, with no help to take orders or money from the patrons, or to grate cheese, or to fill the olive oil decanters. The crusts for the square pies are now partially pre-baked, apparently a recent change that keeps them from tying up the oven too long.

            Dizzy from the buzz, I figured I had to give Di Fara's a try, even though returning my old neighborhood always gives me the creeps. Given my mistrust of all religions and mass movements, I was skeptical. I was sure Di Fara's couldn't live up to its reputation. I was also reluctant to wait in an interminable line for a couple of slices of pizza, so I put off my visit until I could get there at an "off hour," or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof. On Friday, August 4 I left the office early and headed out to Midwood on the Q Train. I got to Di Fara's at about 3:15 PM. It looked exactly the same as it had in the 70s--same crude, hand-painted sign, same grungy interior, same oven, I'm pretty sure, which looked like it had seen active battlefield duty. The only thing different was the fact there were articles, tributes and awards hanging all over the walls.

            There were about three or four other patrons in the shop. I gave my order to Dom's daughter, whose assistance helps things, in a small way, to run more smoothly. I ordered one regular slice with artichokes, a house specialty, and one square slice. In less than five minutes a round pie came out. Dom's daughter spooned the sauteed artichoke hearts on my slice. I brought it over to a table, along with my can of Limonata, and dug in.

            Yes, it was good. It was very good. But was it transcendent? No. It was a very good slice of pizza, and the thin, dense, nutty crust was very impressive. Still, I wondered, is that all there is? Has buzz and momentum caused people to come from all corners of New York, not to mention the world, and wait on long lines for a non-transcendent, very good slice of pizza?

            I finished the slice. There was no square pie in sight. I waited. People came and went, some for slices, some for whole pies to go. At about ten to four there was still no square pie in sight. A regular pie had just come out and, miraculously, there were still a couple of slices left after all the pre-orders were taken care of. I decided to claim one, to eat while I waited for my square. I ate it. It was very good, just like the last one. Still, I wasn't convinced it was worth all the trouble.

            By 4 PM I had been there 45 minutes and still no square. So my quick, early slice was really part of the test. I now had endured the famous Di Fara 45-minute wait, wanting to try both types of pie, but I also had the option leaving, relatively sated, and being able to say I had made the pilgrimmage. That just wouldn't do. I was determined to try a square. I figured I had waited 28 years to go back; a couple of more minutes wouldn't kill me.

            There was no square because Dom kept putting regular pies in the oven and hadn't started on a square in all the time I'd been there. Then some people came in and ordered a square pie to go. Dom's daughter asked him, "Are you going to do a square next? There are people waiting for slices, and there's another one to go." Dom kept working on round pies, and every five minutes his daughter reminded him that people were waiting for squares.

            I started talking to some of the people who were waiting. A couple of guys who had been there almost as long as me were also waiting for square slices too. One lived in Manhattan, but his friend was visiting from Dublin. The guy who had ordered the square pie to go, a former Brooklynite, had driven from Long Island with his teenage daughter. After Di Fara's they were off to Coney Island. I have no idea where they planned to eat their pizza.

            Finally, at close to 4:30 Dom finally got the message and started working on a square pie. He lifted the crust from the pan and poured a copious quantity of extra virgin olive oil under it. Then he added the sauce and cheeses on top. Then it went in the oven. I had been there for about an hour and fifteen minutes, during off-peak.

            In a very hot oven, with the crust mostly pre-baked, it doesn't take too long to cook a square pie, once Dom gets around to it, that is. Dom's daughter served me my slice and I took it back to the table. It was oily and messy, so I used a fork and knife on it. I took a bite.

            It was transcendent. It was unique. It was delicious.

            Now for a disclaimer. While I like pizza, I'm not a pizza fanatic. I've enjoyed pizzas in Italy, but I don't tend to order them too often when I'm there. I also prefer Turkish pides and Alsatian tartes flambees to pizza. Still, as far as pizza goes, I can't think of any I've had that was better than the square slice at Di Fara. The major difference between the two kinds of pie is apparently the sauce. For the square Dom uses a sauce that has been simmered with prosciutto or pancetta. I think it is the heartiness of this sauce, along with the way the cheeses marry on top of it that perhaps makes the noticeable difference. In addition, Dom added fresh basil to the square slices, which gave another dimension to the flavor.

            So now I'm a Di Fara's true believer, but a sectarian of the square. Nonetheless, It might be some time before I go back. Like I said, I'm not a pizza fanatic.

            http://petercherches.blogspot.com

            6 Replies
            1. re: Peter Cherches

              Excellent writing. Even better than your blog's usual excellent writing.

              1. re: Brian S

                Thanks, Brian. Feedback like that is my paycheck.

              2. re: Peter Cherches

                Great post Peter. We should gather a bunch of Midwood-ites or CHs and get you back for another, more complete, go round. When there's a group, you can order several round and square pies, as well as calzone (yep, they're very good too) and really get the flavor (pun unavoidable) of his craftsmanship. I've done this several times now (as well as going on my own several hundred times now, since I'm still in the neighborhood regularly), claiming the back table and bringing wine, and find it a relaxing way to eat there.

                1. re: Peter Cherches

                  Holy freakin' heck, I went out there for the first time Friday, and I had a round slice and I thought it was really spectacular, and now y'all're telling me the square is EVEN BETTER?! And it has more tomato sauce?! Mmmmmm. Jeez, guess I gotta go back.

                  Hot in there. Next time I'm bringing a hunk of ice in a ziploc bag to stick on my feet while I wait. But watching Dom DeMarco scissor that fresh basil onto those pizzas was pretty dang cool.

                  1. re: Peter Cherches

                    This is the same experience I had the one and only time that I've been to Di Fara's. I had read so much about this place on Chowhound that I knew it wasn't going to live up to its reputation. It was a hot August Sunday afternoon and I had a round slice (good but not great) followed by two square slices. The square was the best pizza I've ever had and I've had a lot of pizza.

                  2. Well, Peter, If feedback is your paycheck let me make your day. Not only did I enjoy your post, but I have been reading about this DiFara Devotion for months now and could not get it.
                    Now I do...you see I was born and raised in Canarsie, went to Tilden but have lived in Maine for the last 30 years, where Pizza is nothing more than cardboard with tomato soup on top...but thanks to you I have decided today to go back to Midwood for the weekend just to eat a DiFara's Pie. I only hope that what has happened to Canarsie has not also happened to Midwood..You have made me a pilgrim, Peter, and I thank you...but tell me when is the best time of day to get there on a week end to minimize the wait..or is there Some Soup-Nazi like decorum to follow ?

                    1 Reply
                    1. re: Jimmy

                      Just to point out that while waiting may be uncomfortable (I always bring a bottle of wine and just enjoy the wait), there is absolutely no "soup Nazi" aspect to Dom. He is the ultimate sweetie. Wait, drink, enjoy!

                    2. I believe the only decorum is to wait patiently. There have been other threads on timing strategy.

                      You've made my day.

                      1. Just one more vote as if the place needed it. I was there for lunch (I'm not working now, so I have been going frequently at lunch). It was wickedly hot and humid there.

                        When I got there, there were round slices ready -- a line had formed but it was all people who had bought whole pies or who were waiting for squares. I prefer the squares usually, but I've had round slices that were up to that standard -- usually they're a bit burnt and a little less soupy than his round slices often are. Anyway, the round slices were excellent. Transcendent? Hard to say, but the experienced seemed to be getting better bite by bite. When I finished up, I decided to wait a bit as he had three square pies in the oven, and to me seeing the pizza come out of the oven is like going to an art gallery -- I would put it on my wall as art if it weren't pizza. One of them was slice-fodder, so I had a square slice, my first in a while. Yes, it was seriously good.

                        1. I love watching all the eager eaters waiting not so patiently but trying soooo hard to remain calm because they know that they MUST MAINTAIN DECORUM and not ruin the vibe in order to just...get...the ...slice.....must ....get ...the ....slice. Next time you are there...look at Dom's hands...ever notice that he doesn't EVER use a mit or utensil to put the pies in or take them out of the oven? Now those are "verging on burnt" or charred if you wil.......lol