Best Burgers in Los Angeles

[shaygo]

Looking for the best "cafe" burgers in L.A. and the two suggestions that seem to keep coming up are Father's Office and The Counter. . .Any further suggestions or preferences between these two?

Thanks!

[hrhboo]

I too am desperately seeking a good burger. Father's Office is great when I want a gourmet one, but sometimes I crave a good old-fashioned patty that doesn't need any fancying up. I find the Counter's burgers bland and disappointing.

[ryan0414]

If you want a good, classic burger that is nothing fancy, try Hanano in Venice (on Washington, a block from the beach). The bartender's make them behind the bar and they are fantastic.

[Servorg]

Emilyt did recommend Hinano's further down in the thread and it's been an LA board favorite for burgers for quite a few years.

[Burger Boy]

Yeah, the JO barteneder told me he was to busy to make a burger, I asked if he was to busy to pour a beer? He said no, then I asked him to make me the burger of take it off th F____ menu. We had words and he refused to serve me. It is a good burger but they have that biker bar mentality, this was a few years ago, but F them I say.

[sel]

And then you went to...............I know 26 Beach! Right?

[Burger Boy]

No, it was very late, we ended up at In n Out. God bless their late hours! But I like your set up, I should have run with it, especially since I am on the payroll, oh wait, I was fired. Can I collect un-employement?

[mijollner]

Vinoteque on Melrose has the best burger in town...period. It's a Kobe Burger for only 13 dollars with fries. Juicy, a bit spicy and oh so delicious.

[wilafur]

the hellman burger at pete's cafe in downtown LA. corner of 4th and main.

get it with the bleu cheese fries and you'll be in heaven.

[ipsedixit]

Ditto.

[calabasas_trafalgar]

I work very close by, I'll have to check it out.

[chowmominLA]

If you work near 1st and Main, the cafeteria at the Caltrans Building (100 N. Main) has a pretty good basic hamburger lunch special (hamburger or cheeseburger, fries or fruit and a 12 oz drink for about $4.) I mention it only if you work right around there; it's nothing fancy or worth going out of your way for. But I think it's the best thing they serve!

[mitchrc]

The Counter in Santa Monica or the Farm in either Beverly Hills or the Grove.

[blevine99]

Um...I think the question was "other than The Counter." But I second The Farm. Surprisingly awesome.

[estone888]

I'm only lukewarm about their BBQ, but I think Zeke's has a pretty good burger.

[JimN]

I agree, Zeke's has a very good burger. I've only been to the Montrose location, though.

Couple more good choices: Billy's Grill in Van Nuys and 26 Beach in Venice.

I can't recommend The Counter. Tried it twice and didn't enjoy it either time.

[wizardx]

I have to agree with Billy's Grill also.. their exotic burgers are very good but their regular cheesburger is great!

[blevine99]

Problem with Zeke's is: overly smoky. Works for ribs but not in my burger thanks.

[Wes]

Get the hamburger at George Petrelli's Steak House in Culver City. Some have not liked the Steaks here (I do) but the hamburger has not yet been dissed.

A very large patty of real beefy tasting meat with all the condiments. Since they grind their own fresh each day they will cook it any way you like. Comes with fries.

==WARNING== The sodas are from the bar with bar size and price and NO refills. Get the Iced tea instead. Free refills.

George Petrelli's Steak House
5615 Sepulveda Blvd, Culver City, CA

Really great burger!

[Dommy]

Thanks Wes! I've been craving a burger all week and was FINALLY going to have one today. George's it is! :)

--Dommy!

[MarlaPR]

I couldn't agree with you more!! Absolutely the BEST!

[David Kahn]

It seems to me that there's an important distinction to be made here. There are, really, two different classes of burger, which are very different animals.

First, there's the high-end steak house type burger. This is typically made with very good beef, is thick, can be cooked to order, and usually costs more than $10. In this class, my favorite is the $13 prime sirloin burger on the lunch menu (only) at Arnie Morton's -- http://www.mortons.com/website/index.... . (I've only had the one at the downtown branch, but maybe, hopefully, they're as good at the other locations). Served with your choice of cheese (I go with cheddar) and grilled onions and/or sauteed mushrooms (I get the later), with fries (although they'll sub sauteed spinach, etc., if you ask them). This burger is excellent. Thick, perfectly cooked and seasoned, massively juicy, with a nice char on the outside. Really excellent.

Of course, the other important category here is the fast food type burger. These, of course, have thinner patties of which there are often more than one, are generally not cooked to order (i.e., medium rare, etc.), and are usually under $10. In this class, In-N-Out, Apple Pan, and Pie and Burger are the perennial favorites, but I also really like the burger at the Beverly Hills Diner (474 N. Beverly Dr., at Little Santa Monica, [phone]). Since it stopped being a Johnny Rockets, I think the food here has turned around. Stuff is made to order, served piping hot and fresh, and the quality of the ingredients seems to have improved markedly. I get the standard double cheese burger with grilled onions and a side of onion rings. Very delicious. Excellent turkey burgers as well. Plus, you can get a diet cherry Coke. (Why, you may ask, would one bother with a diet Coke when one is pounding down a double cheese burger with onion rings? Well, I always say, it's our little idiosyncrasies that make us special.)

[hrhboo]

The first kind you mentioned is the kind I'm after. I am usually prejudiced against sirloin since it is too lean to pack a decent flavor punch. The best burgers I have eaten (including Father's Office) are made with a proportion of ground chuck which usually contains about 15-20% fat. Kobe and ribeye burgers are full of flavor for the same reason - the higher fat content. Does anyone at all do a ground ribeye burger?

[ipsedixit]

Dunno if this counts as a "cafe" but the Sirloin Burger at MORTON'S is fabulous.

[Michelle]

Hi,

My current favorite restaurant burger is at Wild Thyme in Pasadena. You can actually get a rare burger there, yum! On grilled sourdough, with jack cheese and avocado, it is really good!

[calabasas_trafalgar]

Cassell's
Fatburger
Farmer Boys
Tommy's
Apple Pan

I won't go near Father's Office(no ketchup)

[foodseeker]

Barneys in Brentwood on San Vicente (close to Barrington), and also on 26th and San Vicente.

[FKA Andrew]

Count me out on Barney's. I went to the one at the Brentwood Country Mart (26th and San Vicente) and was extremely disappointed. The burger had very little flavor and came with deep-fried bacon and dried out blue cheese. Bacon should never be deep fried unless you are making it into a bacon bit and even then I would question the cooking method. The onion rings were also over cooked and over priced for what I got. The experience was so disappointing that I don't think it deserves a second chance.

[blackbookali]

Go to 25 degrees in the Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood. They have a large selection of cheeses and other various toppings for a buck and a bunch for free too. You can get it all done up and try and imitate the FO burger or the Pug burger at Hungry Cat. Or you can do a strip down burger, similar to the "classic" style of Pie N Burger and Apple Pan. The buns are terrific and they are not afraid to cook it to order. It is by far the juiciest burger in town and with all the options you can fit your burger to any kind of mood you are in.

[blevine99]

I was ver disappointed here. Dry and flavorless for a place that specializes.

[JPomer]

It doesn't get much respect, but I happen to really like the chili cheeseburgers at Pinks.

[blacksab67]

Jack's Classic Hamburgers on Riverside (on the western edge of Toluca Lake, sort of). Amazing.

Cassell's.
Pie N Burger.
Rick's makes a decent burger...

And there's nothing wrong with In 'n Out.

[mark sferas]

Being from Chicago and also a meat lover. I tried a place in Hollywood called 25 Degrees. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the meat and it juiciness also the texture of the buns. The fries are very good, they have a hint of tyme. The dipping sauces were excellent. You must try the milk shakes, they are a meal in themselves. I think in general the food in LA sucks especially when IN & Out is one of your only options but it's getting better thanks to 25 Degrees.

[jackattack]

I like the burgers on the appetizer menu at Cheesecake Factory.

(O.k., line me up in front of the firing squad! )

[dinami]

I personally like the bacon cheeseburger at Houstons with a side of fries with ranch. Mmmmm.

[lil mikey]

The straight hamburger at Houston's is pretty good, too.

[cowbs]

Houston burgers are always good.

[runyonesque]

Bowery Bar on sunset/Vine- "the works" burger makes me happy as heck. But for you purists I warn that it is served on an english muffin. I don't usually go for this kind of transgression, but dang, that thing is good.

[riceflour]

Agreed on the burger at Bowery. Especially when enjoyed with a (shared) bottle of Malbec and some sweet potato fries.

[SauceSupreme]

Malbec? I usually have my Bowery burger with single malt!

Bowery is a great burger, but IMO it's not even the best burger in a 50 yard radius, given that Hungry Cat is, um, catty corner to Bowery. But I do like Bowery's burger better than Father's Office, in terms of gourmet burgers.

[justanotherpenguin]

does "shared" mean two straws instead of one?

[riceflour]

My usual lunch partner is a friend of mine who found this place when working at a studio nearby. She and I frequently split the Malbec, regardless of a burger or not. It's a pretty consistent wine, IMO. At least, the one at Bowery is. Can't speak for others...

And I agree, SauceSupreme, that the Bowery burger isn't the best out there. However, I have a thing for English muffins and St. Andre, which is why I'd rather go to Bowery than Hungry Cat. HC makes a good Dark 'n' Stormy, though. Maybe I'll try that with their burger next time I'm there.

[justanotherpenguin]

btw: i think that malbecs are great. discovered them several years ago from a califonia winery called "imagery", which is owned by a member of the berringer family. have been buying regularly since then. hope that you understand that i'm kidding about the straws... sometimes, anyway;)

[riceflour]

I'll definitely hunt down the Imagery Malbec on my next wine-buying day. Which could be tomorrow, now that you've got me thinking about it. Thanks for sharing :)

And yeah, the straw thing amused me!

[slowcooker]

Way too few people are recommending Houstons. Get the California burger or the Cheeseburger. Beef ground to order. A long line, so plan accordingly, and slightly pricey, but you can keep that in check by sticking to a burger, fries and coke. No booze, no appetizers, no desert. Unbelieveable.

[russkar]

We love Houston's but Morton's is just so much better!

[smonkey]

Which Houstons are you talking about? The only Houstons I know is the BBQ place on Cahuenga, but I can't imagine that's what you're refering to here...

[wilafur]

i believe russkar is refering to the houston's restaurant chain.

[Marianna215]

I myself am a huge fan of Lucky Devils -- I dunno if that's too upscale for your prompt, but in my opinion their kobe beef burger, medium-rare, is fantastic. Grab a chocolate cake shake, and enjoy.

[gregg1]

Mortons, Houstons for high end...in and out for patty.

I'll tell though, when I kick and scream loud enough and get them to cook it med rare, the Maui Burger at Islands (guac and swiss add bacon) is one of my favorites. Juicy and seasoned perfectly plus, with respect to Skoobys, still my fav fries in LA. Freshly cut and again seasoned just right.

[SauceSupreme]

I've never had a problem with my local Islands making my burger medium rare. All in all, pretty good for semi-fastfood.

[byrd L.A.]

On the Westside, for a "gourmet" burger:

Father's Office is amazing. Ground sirloin not too overcooked, bleu cheese, carmelized onions, fresh arugula, toasted roll... and it comes with the most amazing shoestring fries and their house aioli. For the whole package, it's a to-die-for burger. The downside is you're going to have to throw blows to get a table or barstool as it's strictly first-come-first-serve and quite packed all the time, unless you come on an off night or early (they open at 4pm I think). Bonus: tons of great beer on tap.

Another option: Beechwood on Washington Blvd at Abbot Kinney in Venice/Marina del Rey. Same type of burger like at Father's Office. Really good, gives Father's Office a run for its money. Your choice of 3 different kinds of fries: shoestring, regular, or sweet potato. Also they have 3 great dipping sauces (including ketchup). Bonus: cool scene, great music, nice "modern" lounge feel. Eat in the bar, not the restaurant. Much easier to get a table here.

[chowchow12345678]

My favorite burger is at Green Street Restaurant in Pasadena called the San Rafael Burger. Don't know why it's not on the menu anymore, but thank goodness they'll still make it if you request it. The beef is nice and thick and is served on sliced grilled baguette so it's crunchy and flavorful, and there are some green chiles added to the burger which gives it a mild kick. I usually ask for fresh fruit for the side which they give generously -- I usually can't finish the the burger and all the fruit. It's particularly enjoyable to eat out on their lovely patio on warmer days, whether it's daytime or nighttime.

[jtartar]

High End: 25 degrees and the Hungry Cat makes a ridiculouly good burger.
Fast food type: Irv's on SM next to the Coast Playhouse makes a mean burger. Great when the Apple Pan is too far.

[2chez mike]

I like the ground steak at Musso Frank. They don't have buns so I get it on white toast.

[lapchern]

in n out, double double w/ grilled onions

[hungryhyena]

I don't know if any of you have ventured over to Opus on Wilshire between Oxford & Western. It has a phenomenal (IMHO) basic cheeseburger. No sauces to cover up for anything, just lettuce tomato & onion on this great egg bun.

For diner style burgers that are consistent, I like pie & burger in Pasadena. I agree that father's office has a great gourmet burger, but there are some good places further east.

[ktm]

Moonshadows on the PCH in Malibu has a great Kobe Beef burger served with carmelized onions, asian slaw and homemade taro chips. And you get to eat it basking in the sun with the ocean below you.

[swisscharred]

The BEST TASTING burger is a little known stand on the northwest corner of Broadway and 20th in Santa Monica. I don't know the name of it -- Big Joe's or something. They're not the biggest burgers, but I've never had a burger with so much flavor!

They're char-grilled, the only kind of burger I'll eat. Give yourself time... there are lines out the door around lunchtime. They're only open till 3pm.

For the best fancy burger, 25 Degrees in the Roosevelt definitely -- green chile with drunken goat cheese -- the best.

[Will Owen]

I will eat a char-grilled burger if I must, but very much prefer them done on a surface grill. I have yet to try Pete's, but my two favorite high-end burgers to date are at Second City Bistro in El Segundo and Ford's Filling Station in Culver City - $12 and $14 respectively. Excellent beefy flavor, bun both tender to the bite and able to hold up at least MOST of the way through. Julienne in San Marino has exactly the same basic concept - big patty, cheese, onion, tomato and lettuce - but the flavor is lacking and the bun starts dissolving almost immediately. It's also the most expensive, I believe around $17.

Next on my agenda is Central Park Cafe here in Pasadena. Soon!

[Will Owen]

As a very belated follow-up, Central Park's burger was one of the best, and far the cheapest at under $10. The big winners at the moment? A tie between Oinkster and the Redwood Grill. Next up is Fred 62...

[cvc]

Although, I like many of those mentioned here on this perrenial topic, especially Pie 'n Burger and Father's Office, the Oinkster in Eagle Rock does a great old fashioned 1000 Island dressed version for $4.50 while Billingsley's in W.L.A. prepares a terrific half pounder for $8.95.

[ellewoods]

I saw BBQ King's burger featured on the Food Network (I think). They grill them in the smoke barrels underneath the ribs, etc., so that the burgers soak up all the rib juices that drip down onto them. Sounds like a heart attack waiting to happen, but if you do try it, and live to tell the tale, let us know how it is.

[Burger Boy]

they used to, years ago they made a greak smoked burger, now it is just a BIG Burger.

[malibumike]

I used to work down there(sunset/ceasar chavez and figuora) and a couple of years ago I had one of their burgers. Usually a long wait, the burger was the size of a dinner plate, but it was dry and tastless. Unless they cook them different now I wouldn't bother. If the above mentioned process of cooking is new it sounds tempting for me to try again.

[broncosaurus]

Yep, BBQ King's burger is huge, but it's fairly average-tasting. Don't recall anything about rib juices the two times I've ordered one of these.

I thought that place was going to be torn down.

[snooze button]

Today I had the King burger and some fries... huge patty (well it better be if it's a 1 pounder). The meat was okay but definitely not juicy. The fries were seasoned but only in certain spots, and kinda soggy. I still enjoyed the meal since I wanted to pig out, and it was on my way home. I also like their outdoor patio and the people there were nice.

[dkent]

This is a burger no one would ever know about, but I believe it's one of the best out there. Would be on my same list as Father's Office, The Counter, Houstons, and SF Saloon...

AMER'S FALAFEL in ENCINO. Trust me. A truly unique and awesome burger along with amazing seasoned fries.

[kiwi]

dkent said:
"A truly unique and awesome burger"

ooh, please elaborate...

[miffy]

second SF Saloon-

[girlflorida]

gotta go with The Counter in Santa Monica!

[Get my grub on]

If you like, read my recent post titled "Bleu Chesse Bacon-y Lovliness" it's all about a great burger at Islands in Burbank CA :)

[BrookeN]

A burger and a malt says "California" to me... A few of my 'fast food' favorites all vary (in no particular order):

+ The Bucket, Eagle Rock Blvd (fries are good and seriously greasy! Rumor is they use mink oil - just kidding)
+ Pie N Burger, Pasadena (one has to have a malt or be drummed out of Burgerdom)
+ Apple Pan, Westside (one has to have pie a la mode or be committed to Atascadero)
+ Petes, Downtown (fries come in a metal cup)
+ In N Out, Everywhere (try em animal style - protein style is pour moi)
+ BBQ King, Fig and Sunset downtown (mmmm, greasy and smoke all over your clothes)
+ Cassels, 6th St! (with apologies to Randy Newmann) mid Wilshire
+ The Boat (is temporarily gone due to construction of a Kohls - Huntington and Rosemead) The burgers are just okay but the place is a trip - take a kid with you
+ The White Spot (oops that's in Vancouver - try a triple O cheeseburger, eh? - Still a actual car hop drive in)
+ The Pantry Annex (hickory burger's okay but one comes here for the coleslaw, period)
+ Bob's Big Boy, Toluca Lake, on the weekends when they have car hop service - burgers are not that special but it's car hop service, man.
+ Wolf Burger - Colorado + Lake, Pasadena - good in a pinch

To the fellow from Chicago somewhere on this page who said food sucks in L.A., huh? Sure, there are lots of sucky fast food and crappy places, as there are all over "Anywhere USA". I think the rest of the country is becoming Van Nuy Blvd. I have been finding that in smaller cities it is hard to find places that are not chain restaurants. But in this city (meaning not just L.A. but So Cal) has lots of unique, locally run and owned "one-off" restaurants - all over -- in my area - Hollywood/We Ho/Bev Hills, in the "new" Chinatown (Valley Blvd in the SG Valley) - I could go on and on!

Ciao, hounds!

Brooke

[pamm5959]

I love 26 Beach Cafe burgers, great beef just enough fat tto make it good

[Burger Boy]

THANK YOU PAM! 26 Beach has been making great gourmet burgers for 25+ years, they make their own buns, their secret sauce. Check out some of the burgers on their website, a very eclectic mix, long before Father's Orafice and all these others were making exotics, 26 Beach wrote the book and is still writing it! www.26beach.com

[beachcats]

The Counter in Santa Monica
In 'n Out
Brentwood Inn on Barrington (don't know if the menu has changed, but if it still offers a burger, go for it, expensive but excellent)
Houston's

I prefer the Counter over FO simply because of the customization. I can be as traditional as I want with cheese, onions, pickles, tomatoes or get really creative with garlic aioli and avocado. Either extreme is excellent.

[iknowfood64]

Double Double from In N Out with extra spread, extra cheese, and grilled onions.(So. California)
The Hat has a delicious double cheese burger.(Alhambra, Upland, Monterey Park)
Chronies also has a excellent doudle cheese burger. (East L.A)

[somenoise]

You can also order it as "Double Double Animal Style" if you want to simplify things

[manku]

Animal Style has mustard on it, which IMO, should never be on a burger...others may disagree, but I just don't like the combo.

[maxzook]

Here's a more recent thread on the same subject:

http://www.chowhound.com/topics/429948

[ripken00]

ERCOLES in Manhattan Beach 1101 Manhattan Beach Blvd AN ABSOLUTELY AWESOME burger, price for the cheeseburger and a soda about 8.95,so good and LARGE one can easily feed 2 adults. Beware cash only and stop serving food at whatever hour they feel like , usually only serve food until happy hour times, when it apparently becomes a total dive, even more so than during the day, and have great drink prices as well, good stiff drinks and low prices, the epitome of a DIVE BAR

[Jeryy]

I live on the Westside so I don't really know a lot of the previously mentioned Pasadena vicinity spots but my three favorites are, oddly, all on Pico Blvd. In ascending order of price, Rae's, near 26th Street, SF Saloon near Gateway, and Whist in The Viceroy Hotel near Ocean. Rae's is a classic inexpensive diner burger, SF Saloon is a heartier and much discussed her pub-burger, and Whist serves a Kobe beef burger that's simply celestial (I think it was 15 bucks) And all three offer charming, characteristic experiences. Maybe Pico Blvd is the Main Drag of Burgers??? Go ahead, somebody start a "Best Food Street in LA" thread.

[humbop]

Molly's on Vine at Selma in Hollywood. Burgers the way they were meant to be: cheap, charbroiled, and delicious. Nothing hoity-toity, just a good old-fashioned, no-nonsense American burger. Cheeseburger Combo: burger, fries and drink for under six bucks!

[wutzizname]

Always wondered about Molly's 'cause it looks like a place you want to love, but I assumed, since it's right in the middle of everything but I've never heard a single person recommend (or even mention) it, that there was no reason to give it a try.

I don't need hoity-toity in the least, but wondering if the burger itself, the meat, is actually any good? Or if it's just a frozen mass-produced thing that passes 'cause that's all you're looking for?

Appreciate any other details on this joint/burger stand.

[JeMange]

Cafe Stella in Silver Lake - the burger is fantastic. It's served on a great artisan roll and has blue cheese mixed in with the meet. Comes with small mounds of caramelized onions and roasted tomatoes for topping. The fries can be drizzled with white truffle oil on request. Not on the menu, but it's an open secret. You can only order it if you're sitting in the bar area. It's pricey though, close to $20, I think.

On the flip side, there's The Bucket, which has already been mentioned. More down and dirty but maybe just a shade less delicious.

[nrique]

Cafe burgers you say?

I recommend the Montebello Country Club. They got a VERY GOOD burger, Fresh patty, cooked to order and toppings by request.

They remodeled the place so it's more restaurant now. But the food is still good!

5 minutes east of Downtown L.A. by the 60 freeway. Look for the big MCC sign and exit. Turn right at the Mobile station and then another right at the MCC entrance. Head to the top of the hill and park and walk past the golf cart rentals.

[goldenpoppy]

awww montebello! I come from montebello/whittier. And i've been to the counrty club for numerous events throughtout the years, but never tried the burger there. Gonna have to try it since its so close.
And i don't know maybe know one likes it here, but how come Tommy's isn't on this list at all? I love the chili cheeseburger with everything

[Servorg]

calabasas_trafalgar had Tommy's on his/her list above.

[Jolly]

I just tried some organice grass fed beef cheese burgers in West Hollywood. It was pretty good. I liked the bun which some people say fall apart too easily but not for me. I thought they put too much thousand island sauce on there but otherwise very good. I used to go to organic burgers in San Francisco near the castro but have been surprised not to find any in this area. Now, I can go and get one if I crave healthy unhealthy food. It is a bit pricey, 7.99 for a burger. But everything is organic including the ketchap. It is a small tidy place and a bit claustrophobic but oh well, can't have everything. There is more comfortable outdoor seating as well.

[sel]

O! Burger on Santa Monica Blvd. across from L.A. Fitness? Went a few days ago and got the combo that added fries and a drink for 3 bucks more. I substituted a green salad for the fries and enjoyed everything. Good tasting healthier burger plus sides and very friendly service. They didn't flinch when I requested rare and that is what I got. Tomorrow I'll probably take my GF there!

http://www.oburger.net/index.html

[Jolly]

Yeah, that's the one. I forgot to mention the name. They're pretty friendly and I enjoyed their food. Have fun w/GF.

[schrutefarms]

I heart burgers. Here's some of my faves...
25 Degrees, at the Roosevelt. Really great toppings, super juicy, high quality meat, great bun (if a little greasy), dipping sauces are awesome, also, you can get a half fries, half onion rings if you can't decide.

Applepans, only had it once, but I remember it fondly.

Irv's Burgers, on Santa Monica and Sweetzer. Good burgers, crappy fries, and the friendliest service in town.

The Village Cafe, Beachwood Canyon, had a burger there the other day, and I gotta say, it was great!! Really tasted like a backyard barbeque burger.

And lastly, when I'm hungover, McDonalds.

[cdmedici]

For all of you living in Orange County such as myself, word has it that they are going open a 25 Degrees in Newport Beach very soon. I love those burgers!!

[pamm5959]

I prefer the Counter over Father's Office just because they don't let kids in at their CC location. At the Counter get the 1/2 & 1/2 it's half sweet potato fries and half fried onion strings! There's also Barney's Gourmet Burgers. I am predispositioned to places that serve sweet potato fries! Skip the onion rings at Barney's, you only get four rings. What ever you do do not go to the Apple Pan! Don't listen to what they say, the burgers are slathered with ketchup to overcompensate for the lack of taste and quality.

[JeMange]

I love the idea of a burger place that doesn't allow children. That's just so... wrong!

I'm looking for investors in a new food venture - a frozen yogurt/play space that doesn't allow children. Who's with me?

[sel]

True, kids are not allowed in either location of Father's Office which is a BAR that serves some great food including the famous Office Burger, part of a menu designed to go along with their wonderful selection of BEER. The Counter is a burger restaurant, not a bar. Some like it and some don't. I went two or three times shortly after they opened and while the options on the check list menu looked interesting, the end result both times was not cooked as I had ordered it and tasted just ok but not really great. I tried Barney's in Brentwood shortly after they opened there and they refused to cook my burger as requested, never returned. Now folks may or may not like The Apple Pan, I have enjoyed them for years but it is not true that their burgers are "...slathered with ketchup..." as you state. Their Steak Burger has a red relish and their Hickory Burger has a hickory sauce that while it may look like ketchup and does have a similar consistency; tastes NOTHING like ketchup! While you and some others may not like the taste, style or price of their product, their meat is very high quality. I knew their former meat supplier, who did go out of business but that was after supplying not only The Apple Pan but many of the finest restaurants in the L.A. area with very high quality meats for decades.

[malibumike]

Sel, you are right, the Apple Pan Hickory burger is great even if a little pricey, I had my first one in about 1953 and they do not have ketchup on them and never did. The hickory sauce resembles nothing like the taste of ketchup, it makes me wonder if the above poster actually ever had one!

[maatkare]

Father's Office is still the best, but the seating irritates. I went to the Counter once, my burger was dry, never again. I do love Lucky Devils. I really love the bun they use. But I have to starve all day so I can finish an entire burger. I just went to a new place on Melrose just east of Fairfax, 8 Oz. Burger Bar. Great cocktails, plenty of unique beers, burgers start at $8, everything from ketchup to aoli to ice cream made in house, awesome desserts, and great service. In a lovely, calm, atmosphere with normal table service where you can hear yourself talk. Highly recommended! (and kids welcome)

[Servorg]

The new FO's in LA on Helms Ave. hard by the Culver City border has cured the "seating" irritation problems at the original on Montana in Santa Monica.

You are right on the money about the burger at the Counter (which on its best day doesn't hold a candle to the burger at FO's).

[wutzizname]

I've been to 8 Oz twice now, once on the front end of dinner when it was only half full, and once in the heart of it when there were no empty tables and 20-30 people in front of the bar. The noise level was fine for the former, but when the place is filled it is a complete conversation killer. The LOUDEST restaurant I've ever been in, including Comme Ca. So if you do want to "hear yourself talk" there, I recommend choosing your visit times wisely.

[tappleton2]

My favorite burger in LA has to be the Apple Pan. I've tried them all - my partner is a recent immigrant and huge American hamburger fan - and the burgers that stand out are the ones that are not overly garnished with gourmet filler. Father's Office, is of course, perhaps the best in the gourmet category. The Apple Pan's business is burgers. They are always consistent, inexpensive, and fresh. The waiters have been making burgers practically their whole lives! and are so focused on burger making they barely register your existence. I prefer the Steak burger; my partner prefers the Hickory burger. Both have their special apple relish, which is not as sweet as it sounds. They also have a great follow up of various freshly made pies. MMM!

[manku]

Hardly inexpensive...a burger, fries and drink will run close to $15 w/tax&tip!

I can have three in n out combos for the same price.

I like Apple Pan, but it's too pricey for what it is.

[drewnkatie]

Honestly, I admit that we haven't been to Father's Office (going today!), but we've found quite a few good burgers out in the Pasadena Area.

Hawkins House of Burgers, in Altadena, is actually one of the best I've had. The patties are incredibly thick and juicy, and the prices are fantastic ($5 for a burger, a giant coke, and fries). If you're feeling adventurous, try out the Hawkins Special, three 9 ounce patties, a sausage, bacon, pastrami, and two fried eggs. Definitely a stomach blaster. The place is a bit on the tough side to find, considering it's basically just a door in the non-descript "Hawkins Beauty Supplies" building. Also, service is a bit slow, so be prepared to wait for your burger.

Pie N Burger is good, but the lines can be fairly devastating and the prices aren't fantastic.

The Original Topps (the one on Colorado, not the one on Foothill) makes a good Kobe burger. They also have excellent zucchini fries.

Lucky Boy's patty melt, if you're into that kind of thing, is pretty great, but primarily a hang-over food style. And the guy who runs the place is incredibly grumpy.

But honestly, for my money, the best burger in Los Angeles is at Comme Ca, a high dining establishment in West LA (on Melrose). They only serve the burger at lunch, but it is well worth the fairly high price they charge. They don't do any of the fancy crap, no portabello mushrooms or foie gras or anything like that. It's just a perfect piece of aged beef on an excellent bun, with a strong cheddar on top. While you're there, try to get the cheese plate as well. Fantastic.

[bakedwiththemunchies]

I really love the Double Supercheese Burger at Snax Burgers in Torrance. (Corner of Sepulveda & Anza) A truly great tasting cheese burger... I like them with grilled onions.

[swojahn]

Father's office in Culver City is a home run. Counter-not near the best. Inventive and fun, but go for the sweet potato fries instead. No one has mentioned Josie on Pico/24th in Santa Monica. High dining but an incredible buffalo sirlion burger stuffed with gruyere and truffle fries to boot. Absolutely killer.

[mopeyboy]

Burgers, huh? OK, Apple Pan is still good BUT you need to add salt and you need to order your fries well done. And the pie? I laugh about some places mentioned for good pie. Skip the apple pie and get one of the cream pies at Apple Pan and you won't be thinking about hell-holes like Pie n Burger's pies, Marie Callendar, or House of Pies. FO has a great burger but it should be and maybe even better, for the price. J'n'J Burgers and BBQ, at 5754 W. Adams off Washington in E. Culver City, has a good "old-time" cheeseburger. I have tried The Counter maybe three times. Would rather go to Fatburger or even In 'n' Out. Someone wrote about Philly West - great Cheesesteak with mushrooms, no sauce, and a very good burger. Also have a good sub. Lucky Devils was OK. Best Burger on Western, South of Expostition, has a great chili-cheeseburger. Seriously. Hungry Cat has good meat but I don't like bleu cheese or avocado on my burgers. 5 Guys Burgers, fairly new to Carson, has great meat and excellent fries but the buns are terrible. Even though they grill the buns right in front of you, the quality is terrible and they are still soggy. Bandera, Sister of Houston's, has a serviceable burger but too expensive. Have their French Dip instead - Excellent, made from prime rib.

[sbritchky]

You need to add a lot more than salt to make the Apple Pan beef-type substance interesting. Try a completely plain corner of your next burger there to see what I mean. Far from the AP of my youth, or maybe I'm the one too far from my youth.

Ten years ago, I used to eat at 5 Guys in their original locale (Washington, DC, area), and they were great -- juicy, tasty burgers and outstanding fries. I've been to the new one in Carson only once, and the burger was merely decent -- better than Apple Pan, for example, but not as flavorful as at such fellow corporate entities as Fatburger and Houston's. By the way, anyone who thinks those cardboard sticks at In n' Out are good enough should stop by 5 Guys for fries.

I'm still hoping desperately I haven't found the best burger in Southern California. I may have to turn 17 again for that.

[foodiebiz]

The Pub Burger @ The Hungry Cat is always great. Comes with bacon, avocado, and blue cheese.

The French Burger, Bombay Burger, or the Patty Melt @ 26 Beach

[millions]

It's the PUG burger, not the PUB burger.

[ReelMike84]

To me the Pug Burger is a great burger but only for one or two bites. Then its lousy "Tower of Pisa" construction kicks in and the whole thing tips explodes out of the bun. Messy burgers are fine by me, I just don't want to sit there having to reconstruct my burger from the rubble.

[rednyellow]

I hate a burger with a bun that wont last for the duration.

[troublemaker]

Believe me, as a burger aficionado I have to say COMME CA is HANDS-DOWN the best burger I have ever had. Try it and argue to me otherwise. Then again, the burger is $16 so you're really getting what you pay for. But you know what, the day after we had gone and tried their burger, literally everyone in our party was still raving about the taste of their burger. The meat is something else, unreal.

[TonyC]

I have tried it. And I'll argue with you every time. At $16, I'd rather have 25 Deg and or Bar Marmont's Burger. The beef is fine, but the greens they use is just disgusting after it's heated by the patty. The brioche bun is also much too porous thus couldn't contain / control the juices coming out of the medium rare patty. Tres disgusting. And I ate it pretty darn fast.

[Servorg]

My brioche bun held up to my med. rare patty without any structural failure. This may have something to do with my rate of "burger inhalation" I will admit.

[a213b]

I just had the Comme Ca burger at lunch today (split with a friend), and while I do not think I'd call it the best burger in the city, it was certainly a damn good burger.

There weren't any greens on it, just a slaw mixture, and since my friend cannot eat mayo we had it on the side. I applied some to my half of the burger, though not too liberally, and it worked really well.

The bun was great ... toasted, but with some give. The meat seemed very high quality, and was cooked perfectly (MR). The bun absorbed the juices without getting soggy and falling apart, as others have complained, and the taste was just great, beefy goodness with a bit of clean slaw flavor and rich mayo combined with a nice sharp bite of cheddar.

So, in short, it was really a very good burger -- I wouldn't call it transcendent, but it is certainly a yummy bite.

[tablefor1]

troublemaker, i agreed with this until i went to umami burger last week and the week before. comme ca still has THE BEST french fries in town, but umami's burger is otherworldly.

[peppermonkey]

umami burger is bleh, flavors too disparate..don't come together well

[rednyellow]

I think Umami's flavors blend/ balance beautifully and I'll take their fries over the hard dark things I was served at comme ca any day.

[peppermonkey]

the burger isn't bad...but if you're gonna compare to the likes of father's office, it's just not in the same league. The individual components are all good, but they don't help each other. Everything is too separate. The fries are even worse..they're cut too thick so you get that drying effect like when you eat a baked potato without any butter.

[rednyellow]

I guess thats why there's choices, I completely disagree with you.

[foodiemahoodie]

rednyellow feels that the Pacific Dining Car is one of the best restaurants in Los Angeles. I personally wouldn't put that in the top 100. So if you agree with him - that the Pacific Dining Car is one of your favorites, then run, don't walk to Umami. If it isn't, then don't bother.

[wienermobile]

Umami is burger heaven. I had the Manly burger and the Pork burger and all I can say is wow. Not the biggest burgers in size but they are gigantic on flavor.

[dfoldes]

it's been said before but for what you're describing:
father's office
lucky devil's
houston's
hungry cat
comme ca
bowery bar

[ohdaylay]

Carney's at 8351 W Sunset Blvd. is the best in town. I really like the simplicity. Also, Pie and Burger in Pasadena on California is pretty good, too.

[whatsfordinner]

Anisette: flavorful and juicy beef topped with brie, pancetta and avocado on a grilled brioche bun.

[us2sinrz]

I love this post! I'm new to the LA area (Santa Monica) so I'll have to start checking off some of the recommendations on this post. My favorite (after 3 months here) is the San Fransico Saloon on Pico in West LA. Good burgers cooked exactly how you order them. And stiff drinks.

[Poeticalmath]

does Fat burger still exist?

[maxzook]

Absolutely, they're still in the parking lot of the Jon's at Vermont and Hollywood Blvd., and elsewhere in the area:

http://www.fatburger.com/Location/Loc...

[jerseygirldawn]

Applepan - tradional and yummy.. Chez Nous in Toluca Lake has a "brie burger". It is a juicy patty served with thick slices of brie. I have never had brie on my burger before and it was delicious! The fries were also great. Hungry Cats burger and fries were very nice. Very flavorful but pricey. The burger w/fries costs $16!
Houstons is awesome too. Five Guys is a fast food chain that started in Virginia. They finally have made it to the west coast. You can find one in Long Beach. You have got to try these burgers if you are in the area.
I have not tried Fathers Office or Pie N Burger. I am definatly going to after reading all these posts!

[Harry Nile]

Five Guys is in Carson and Cerritos, not Long Beach. Even though local management seems very confident -- I met one of them right after the opening -- the burger is merely OK, not great. It's better than In N Out, e.g., and like nearly every restaurant in America has better fries than INO (actually, quite good fries). But the burgers are nowhere near Pie 'n Burger in juiciness or flavor. Fatburger (among many others) is also superior. 'Hounds looking for a quick, casual meal in Carson should head to Jay Bee's BBQ, which is a short drive from Five Guys up Avalon.

[wutzizname]

Tried the Five Guys in Cerritos recently. Nothing mind blowing, but within the In 'n Out universe, it's definitely worth a try. And yes, though their fries also looked somewhat similar to In 'n Out's, they were actually much better.

[lilbuddha]

Have to put a word in for Hole in the Wall Burger Joint. Really good burger. Don't know if they cook to order, but mine was juicy and tasty. You can fancy it up a little, but it doesn't need it.

http://www.holeinthewallburgerjoint.com/

[Servorg]

Because this thread started before Hole-in-the-Wall burgers got going it didn't get added here, but there have been several long and enthusiastic threads about it elsewhere on the board. And they do offer to cook your beef to order (and get it right).

[CraigChinoHills]

Clearman's Galley - "The Boat" is back! It was mentioned above as closed. Much of the menu is the same, a few added items. More space, more bar offerings, just south of Clearman's Northwoods Inn and the firestation on Rosemead.

Burgers made the same way as before. They aren't bad for fast burger, but I'm still a bigger fan of the salads and cheesebread.

[wutzizname]

Although comments on other posts have been surprisingly mixed, I believe the burger at the newish Golden State on Fairfax deserves a mention here. I've taken half a dozen people there to try it, and every one of them has ranked it among their favorites.

[rednyellow]

Golden State was a big disappointment. I didn't care for it at all.

[Cinemaverite1]

I love the burger at Nook- it's amazingly juicy and I love the red-wine onion jam they use

[emilyt]

Father's Office has a serious attitude problem. We boycott them even though their burgers are great. So I recommend The Counter, where the burgers are yummy, you don't get shouted at and you can put ketchup on if you want!

Otherwise the cheeseburger at R&D Kitchen on Montana in Santa Monica is supposed to be excellent and you just can't beat the burgers at Hinano's at the bottom of Washington in Venice. So cheap, and very yummy!

[jayspun]

Umami Burger both hands all the way down!!! If you're in the mood for the old-fashioned nostalgic burger experience of your childhood, order the So-Cal. If you're in the mood for a gourmet upgrade, try anything else. Umami seriously knows how to make a burger but they do not overdo it; striking a perfect balance of flavors and coarse ground meat cooked to perfection... and the bun, oh the bun... don't get me going. I've tried FO and The Counter and they make a decent burger but just lack that special something that Umami posses.

[Lady Marmalade]

I've got two suggestions... Rustic Inn - a divery-dive bar on Hillhurst in Los Feliz and The Bowery a little place decked out in floor to ceiling subway tile on Sunset just East of Vine. Fantastic burger if you can get in!

[Servorg]

Rustic Inn - home to the best buffalo wings in LA.

[Lady Marmalade]

Oh, my friend, I agree!

[rednyellow]

Gotta love the Mertle Burger

[Rho]

Just went to Umamiburger last night with friends -- amazing! The specials were the pot roast burger and the open-faced scallop burger. No worries, the more traditional burgers are on the menu too. They make their own condiments. It is a 'must' for any burger lover -- 850 S. La Brea Avenue (bet. Olympic and Fairfax). I think it is BYO (we brought wine).

Also, I think Tom Bergins on Fairfax near Olympic makes great burgers -- nice touch with the potato buns.

[Burger Boy]

I do not know if I consider a pot roast burger or a scallop burger a traditional burger, like the OP was asking for! We should go apples for apples not apples for watermelon.

[ov1]

Blue Palms Brewhouse in Hollywood has a great burger. This place has quickly become a favorite of ours - they've got a lot of interesting beers on tap and they're constantly rotating them through (which can have downside if you find one you like and it's gone next time). Cool waitstaff - maybe a little shorthanded at times, but they're always helpful in giving tips on what to order.

But back to the burger - I had Burger # 2 - which was a Kobe Beef burger topped with braised short ribs, porcini mushrooms, caramelized onions and gruyere. It was one of my favorite things I've ever ordered from anywhere. I almost don't want to go back so I can preserve the memory of it - I'm worried somehow I caught them on a good night or I was starving or something - it's just too good in my mind.

[sel]

I've had both burgers at Blue Palms. Both always good with their often exemplary craft brew selection!

[Mel Gee]

You're very wise to worry about that, but you have to go back, don't you?

Incidentally, were those porcini the dried, reconstituted type or were they, by chance, fresh? Was the gruyere spear-caught or net-caught? ;-) Seriously, it's almost impossible to find fresh porcini around these parts -- unlike the Bay Area, where the Oregon variety made regular appearances at my grocery store -- so I'd be very interested if Blue Palms serves them.

[Crowley]

Laurel Tavern on Ventura Blvd just east of Laurel Canyon has amazing burgers. Meat's got just the right amount of fat and the buns are perfection. The awesome microbrews bring out the best in a tremendous burger.

[schrutebucks]

i love 8 oz burger's melrose burger, the father's office burger, in-n-out and five guys. i did NOT like umami burger at all (had the truffle burger and the umami burger and found both weirdly greasy and the sides overpriced).

rush street makes a very good burger, and the fries with asiago and truffles make a great side.

[Burger Boy]

Check out 26 Beach Restaurant. www.26beach.com

[mdpilam]

I went to Rush Street last week, and was going to order the burger, but ended up being tempted by their Turkey Burger, but was completely underwhelmed. I rarely order a turkey burger, so maybe that was part of it, but it just lacked flavor and character. And the avocados were more yellow than green. Their sweet potato fries are solid, but whenever I eat sweet potato fries I crave FO's aioli, and when I asked the waiter if they had aioli for the sweet potato fries, he brought me something that tasted like pine sol and ranch. I shudder thinking about it.

The fries with asiago and truffle oil were good and so was the mac n cheese though.

[a_and_w]

Count me among the cult of 26 Beach! Had an exceptional burger there the other night. Meat was juicy and fatty, and cooked a perfect medium rare. Brioche bun soaked up the juices wonderfully, retaining structural integrity right to the end. Even the fries were perfect -- cooked extra crispy as requested. I usually prefer a slightly smaller burger, but this still ranks among my favorites.

[jamiemica]

Apple Pan is the best burger in LA. The Counter is design your own so not that amazing in my opinion. Try Apple Pan and get fries extra crispy! Cash only, counter-style.

[mdpilam]

Eeek!

[sel]

"Eeek!"???

[mdpilam]

Was my thought when Apple Pan (ie, In N Out, but double the price) was proclaimed the best burger in LA. Especially, considering there are alot of real good to excellent burgers here, most notably FO and Umami.

[Burger Boy]

Eeeekkk! ! ! Fathers Office, Umami.......... Go to 26 Beach for a real burger experience. Great meat on a homemade bun and original topping combos for the last 25+ years! JMHO

[a_and_w]

I recommend not overloading with toppings at 26 Beach -- they distract from the quality meat and bun. I loved my medium rare 26er with cheese, but I think my friend regretted all the goat cheese on his Napa(??).

[A5 KOBE]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Scootrvil]

Fred 62!! They have two sizes if you arent that hungry.

1/2 lb Juicy Lucy or 6 oz Whimpy

Both under 10 bucks

Open 24/7!!

http://www.fred62.com

[maxzook]

They also have a good patty melt.

[hungrykitty]

I will agree that Hungry Cat's burger are great. I have heard from several different people about Father's Office. I do not like that fact they don't have or allow ketchup. Also I heard that you have to wait in line to order and then possibly wait for a table too...I love the burgers at Island's! (Did anyone else notice that this post originated in July of 06?)

[Will Owen]

Yes, I did notice that, and have been noticing since, oh, about July of '06. Just proves what we knew all along: LA residents never get tired either of eating burgers or arguing about them!

[Burger Boy]

I am calling a "Throw Down" not Bobby Flay style. Old School Echo Park style, Mano y Mano! Midnight tonight, Echo Park & Sunset. Bring your best burgers and lets do this bad boy!

[hungrykitty]

Very true!

[peppermonkey]

I am a FO burger lover...i'm ok with the fact that there is no ketchup b/c it's almost like you're ruining the chef's creation by adding it. I think there was a lot of thought and care into making that burger. His ketchup component is the tomato compote. If you add ketchup to that thing you will ruin the balance. And while I love ketchup with fries, the aoli is good enough and i can see many people dumping the ketchup onto the burger.

[Will Owen]

That's exactly the problem. A burger is not a composed dish, it is an item that demands adornment, like a taco or a pancake, and the proper person to select and apply such adornments is the diner. This is why in many establishments the burger is served with most of the plated trimmings to the side, so that the diner can include or exclude whatever he wishes to. Many of us, I included, consider presenting it fully adorned as a Chef's Masterpiece a perversion, an arrogant oddity, and even more so if the Chef forbids the addition of any unapproved substance to it. He can call it perfection if he wants; I call it an example of a cook who doesn't know his place.

[Servorg]

"A burger is not a composed dish"

It's funny, Will. People on this board complain, for instance, that the Counter makes them (for the most part) select all their additions and they'd rather have predetermined choices that bring a "fully formed" burger to their table that the chef designed.

Look, FO would get very boring if it was the only burger in town. But to have it occasionally is a wonderful thing. But having places like 26 Beach and Lucky Devils and Morton's to order up burgers at is also wonderful. Even the Apple Pan has its place in our hearts. The old school vibe can resonate at just the right pitch when you feel like stepping back in time. We're lucky here to have so many great places to eat burgers. I don't hate any of the board favorites. I just like to rotate them to keep my burger palate "fresh!" lol

[Will Owen]

I agree, really I do. I just feel like slapping that FO guy around once in a while. One of the principal articles of whatever religion I've got is, "The customer may not always be right, but he is always THE CUSTOMER." And anyone willing to patronize someone who disagrees with that is perfectly free to do so.

[Servorg]

It would be a drag if most of the chef /owner's did what Soon does. But since he is the true exception in LA, rather than the rule, it sort of tickles the iconoclastic cockles of my heart to have him marching to the beat of his ketchupless drummer. ;-D>

[A5 KOBE]

Can't you just sneak in ketchup packets from Micky D's if you really wanted it.

I hate ketchup with a passion, so the no ketchup policy is fine by me but if I really wanted it I would just bring my own.

[Servorg]

People do it, but I believe they will ask you to leave if you get caught doing it. Reasons for the "ejection" policy has more to do with bringing "food" items in from the outside and the resultant liability that FO would assume if something was wrong with the outside food and they allowed it.

[a_and_w]

The waitress did tell epop he could bring a pickle from the supermarket LOL!

[Servorg]

Are you certain that she wasn't employing one of those (old by now) Aussieisms I learned while traveling through Oz back in the early '80's and calling someone a "dill brain?" ;-D>

[maxzook]

I could've sworn that Soon made it clear he would *not* object if people brought their own ketchup.

But I wouldn't know since I haven't been to FO for years.

[Burger Boy]

I agree, if I want to compose my burger I do it at home. I enjoy tasting the chefs creations. I really miss a double Jay all the way with an egg, it sounded so bad until one of the cooks convinced me. Fo is a really good burger but i think the my way or the highway attidtude is a bit much.

[Harry Nile]

"[T]he proper person to select ... adornments is the diner."

The obvious reply for anyone who dislikes being told what to do is, "Amen."

Which is why I skip Father Sophist.

[bulavinaka]

>>Which is why I skip Father Sophist.<<

LOL - well put...

[peppermonkey]

For me, I want my gourmet burger as a composed dish. I view it the same way I would view any other restaurant dish. I actually don't like having too many choices and I feel that the chef with all his training and testing should choose for me which ingredients go best together in his opinion. The complexity of ingredients from the sweetness of the carmelized onions with the bitter argula and the use of dry aged beef with a toasted french roll, and how they come together all point to a composed dish that the chef has taken time to create. Whether the customer likes it or not is a matter of personal taste, just like any other dish. And the customer can choose to order it again or not.

[Harry Nile]

F.O. could present their brilliantly conceived compositions for those who want them while letting the rest of us make our own choices, correct?

That's what you get at most hamburger places and especially at pizza houses, from low- to high-end. Bollini's, for example, has 15 or so "Signature Pizzas," which you can order as is, modify to taste, or simply ignore while creating your own complex pie with extra nuance. The chef-owner there is apparently confident that he and his kitchen staff can efficiently handle new ideas from their paying customers. In real-time, no less!

[a_and_w]

Come on now, Harry, it's not at all unusual or unreasonable for chefs to insist that you experience their carefully composed dishes with no alterations or additions. Like many serious chefs, Sang wants diners to experience a specific taste combination with his burger and has every right to insist that you have it his way or the highway, provided he does so politely. Not every restaurant needs to be like Burger King or even Bollini's.

PS: With due respect to Will, I see absolutely no reason why a burger can't -- or shouldn't -- be a composed dish. That's sophistry verging on snobbery.

[bulavinaka]

<<That's sophistry verging on snobbery.<<

And with all due respect, you know as well as I that folks on either side of this issue will point to the other about both s-words...

[Harry Nile]

To the contrary, a_and_w, I find F.O.'s policy both unreasonable and, in my experience, unusual. I often ask the kitchen at restaurants ranging from nice to very fine for accommodation on ingredients, even in composed dishes. To mention only the first few examples that come to mind, I've requested additions (convert sauteed spinach into spinach au gratin -- Charlie Palmer), deletions (no beets in a salad -- Michael Mina in San Francisco), or substitutions (tagliatelle for some other pasta with ragu bolognese -- either Piatti in Thousand Oaks or Celestino in Pasadena) when I can't eat or don't like something, and I cannot recall ever being refused. At top places, I frequently order a chef's-choice tasting dinner and in that case invariably request one or more ingredient substitutions after hearing the specific menu. In the past year, I've done that without fanfare at Stonehill Tavern, the Water Grill, Arterra in San Diego, the Dining Room at the Langham, and various other restaurants here and around the country.

I've even asked Big Mista to mix his brisket with broccoli so it won't taste as good, thereby giving me one less thing to pine for when I'm on the road! (Just kidding. ;-)

Of course, you can't always get exactly what you want. Some dishes fail or lose their point or require extraordinary additional effort if you tamper too much. But at normal, reasonable, "serious" restaurants, you can usually come very close merely by asking politely, because serious cooks put customers first. Incidentally, some of us customers have been eating in great restaurants and cooking our own serious meals for decades. Our preferences and suggestions can convey important information that restaurant kitchens shouldn't run away from.

I know that many of you love Father's Office, and you should go on loving it. But I hope you now understand a little better why some of us deeply dislike their don't-touch-the-merchandise policy.

[a_and_w]

Harry, order the omakase at many places like Sasubune here in LA and you get what the chef serves you -- no alterations or substitutions. Charlie Trotter and Alice Waters are two other well known chefs off the top of my head who don't allow alterations or substitutions to their tasting menus. And that's all just at the high end -- there's also low-end places like Louis' Lunch in New Haven where requests for ketchup on your burger are summarily rejected. I'm not saying such policies are the norm (at least in the US) and we can agree to disagree whether they're unreasonable. But you can't seriously be suggesting what Sang does is somehow unprecedented or otherwise exceptional.

b, I see your point but don't get your sentiments. At all. How is it either sophistry or snobbery to say a burger can, in the right hands, be a composed dish like sushi?

[bulavinaka]

Sushi can be as sophisticated or as humble as one wants, as can just about anything. It's FO's call to set ironclad rules for how things are to be done in their house. As many have already mentioned in one form or another, it's your choice as a consumer where to patronize. My long-burning issue is how they issue these directives, which I experienced a couple of times and why I choose not to go anymore.

[Harry Nile]

Let me close by reiterating: I'm not claiming the problem is snobbery. It's fine for a hamburger kitchen to say, "Here are the ingredient combinations that we particularly like on our sandwiches." (As I've noted, many pizza houses do something similar.) But demonstrate as much respect for customer diversity as you do for your 'burger-vision, F.O. Show a little on-the-spot creativity, not to mention confidence in your kitchen staff, by allowing people to choose what you lay on top of their ground-beef patties.

[farmertomato]

When a legend like Alice Waters decides the way a dish should be presented, I'm with the program. On the other hand, when a hack like Nozawa uses his sushi-nazi schtick to divert attention from the poor quality of his fish, it's another case altogether.

I'm not willing to accept on faith the credentials of a burger-making anonymous doofus in a bar somewhere on the westside until I see overwhelming evidence that his is the true and righteous path toward culinary enlightenment. Such evidence has yet to appear, so I must cast my lot with the stayaway crowd.

[peppermonkey]

if you've had one, you should be able to see that there is a lot of thought and care going into it. The ingredients and how they come together show this and point to someone who is trying to create something unique and also satisfying like a burger should be
Whether you like it or not is a different issue. For example I know that thomas keller is a great chef who is the most meticulous and puts so much care into every detail. One look at his food and you can see all the love and care that he's put into each dish. And while I did enjoy some dishes, overall the meal was not as good as other places where I payed half as much.
I don't think Sang's policy is to divert/attract attention. Many chefs view their dishes as their babies, their precious creations. I wouldn't want anyone to mess with something that I took great care and effort to create.

[A5 KOBE]

You should try the aioli in the burger.

[bulavinaka]

You're channeling Sang... next up, 1984...

[wooster]

Nope, no tomato compote on an FO burger. It's applewood bacon compote. That said, I disagree with the guy below suggesting that a burger is not a composed dish. I love to see who is "composing" the best burger out there.

[kushnerom]

This is the longest thread ever! I actually haven't tried it myself because it was too packed in there when I went, but the Backstage Bar on Culver Blvd. in Culver City apparently has a really yummy burger. Another one I am excited is here (as an alternative to In n Out) is the east coast favorite, Five Guys Burgers and Fries (in Carson, near Ikea). They let you pick out whatever toppings you want at no extra cost (i.e. peppers, mushrooms, jalapenos, etc.) and there's endless amounts of peanuts that you can just bag up and eat at your table while you're waiting for your burger!

http://talk.2itch.com

[Melvin Surdin]

Fat Burger, Moe Beefy Burger, Chez J, Hamburger Hamlet, JAXs ....

[addy rourke]

I have lived in several major cities in America and have tried nearly 1000 burgers around the world, and I can say, without a hint of irony, that the best burger I've had in Los Angeles was at Fuddruckers. Whether this is a testament to the quality of the Fudd burger or to the lackluster burger landscape in LA, I'll let you decide.

I will simply say this: the LA burger-shack style (with shredded iceburg lettuce, thin patties and mixed condiments) is shameful. But, to each his own. I know many a transplanted New Yorker out here who agree. I think the biggest mystery to me still is the unconditional love that is granted to In-n-Out Burger. I have tried in vain many times to enjoy one of these things, in every possible style and variety they offer. I find that LA natives seem to glorify this place, while those who perhaps have a broader burger perspective (if such a thing can exist) tend to be left scratching their heads.

[A5 KOBE]

I am scratching my head wondering how Fuddruckers is your favorite. Either you simply have not tried some of the aforementioned places or your taste buds are uniquely different. That place would not even be in my top 10, In n Out either.

[addy rourke]

I should probably clarify that the only burgers I've ever had in my lifetime, apart from Fuddruckers here in Burbank that one time, were McDonald's burgers. So, that's nearly 1000 burgers around the world, but only at McDonald's.

Now, are you implying there are other burgers to be had here? Because, around the world, which is where I've eaten nearly 1000 burgers, there is only McDonald's. For example, if you go to Helsinki, where do you find the burger? McDonald's. Go to Cairo, where's the beef? McDo's. Let's grab a burgy in Milan. Where will they serve one one up hot and fresh? That's right. Mack Deuce. New York City? The House that Ronald Built boasts the only burger in town.

If these "other places" really exist, as you claim they do, maybe they'll be better than Fudds. But I'll tell you this, Fudds was the best burger I've had in LA and I've eaten nearly 1000 burgers around the world at Mickey McDonktsched.

Sayin, brah?

[A5 KOBE]

I am saying that you should really try some of the better burgers here in LA. Fuddruckers is alright, but definitely not even close to the best that LA has to offer.

Read this whole thread, and try some of the places being recommended.

[Deidre7]

LOL @ Fuddruckers!!!!!!!! That is like Applebees. I'd have to say 8oz Burger Bar or if you want to be really cheap, FLAMING PATTIES on Vine LOL

[Burger Boy]

have not been in years but Flamming patties used to have a good burger.

[Akitist]

If I might interject, one thousand burgers eaten at McD's isn't really a thousand burgers; it's one burger a thousand times. Maybe four 250 times, but you get the idea.

[addy rourke]

The McD thing was a joke.

[Akitist]

But you made it sound so serious. Didn't square with your previous post, which shorted my logic circuit.

So how were the hamburgers in Hamburg?

[malibumike]

In n Out burgers are fantastic, especially the double double animal style, always fresh ingredients, The famous late french chef, Julia Childs carried around a paper in her purse that listed all the address' of In n Out burgers in California, they were one of her favorites. So to each their own.

[OC Mutt]

Agree 100% about In-N-Out. It's vile, overcooked, and inedible (I've commented on it a few times before so I won't expound). How it's popular is one of the world's greatest mysteries but I guess at one point, everyone thought the world was flat. And you're also right, Fuddruckers makes a terrific burger. Just because something is a chain does not mean it is implicitly bad. I've eaten all around the world as well, and yes, I prefer a family run place over a chain most of the time, but it's absurd to rule something out for arbitrary reasons. I don't like Fuddruckers for other reasons, like the infestation of screeching children running around like zoo animals, but the burger is terrific.

[A5 KOBE]

Terrific is a bit of a stretch to me. It is mediocre at best. Like I said I didn't say it was bad, just that it is not even in my top 10.

Mickey Mantle was a terrific baseball player. Fuddruckers is definitely not the "Mickey Mantle" of LA burgers.

[foodluverla]

My votes:

Cafe burger: Pie 'n Burger for classic, juicy consistency. I've tried Apple Pan at the behest of this board but to me it didn't compare. I was surprised people rated it so well. Cora's Cafe in Santa Monica makes a juicy, tasty one also.

As for high-end, my vote is with 25 Degrees ... pretty darn great patty. Add to that the yummy selection of cheeses, toppings and sauces. And wine.

I like Father's Office -- well executed -- just not my style of burger by choice.

[JBC]

The Shack - I've only just read the newer posts, but I'm surprised no one has mention The Shack Burger. They trick it up by adding a Louisiana Hot Link making it a unique burger experience which a few people I know love; however, I didn't become a raving convert but would have it again. Santa Monica & Playa de Rey. Picture:

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/Rc-kQwrngQzXu6CiizlTVA?select=4uxyT2aAECopEAOstjrKZg

http://www.shacksm.com/

Apple Pan - Their hickory burger for $6.00 (?) is just a In-N-Out with a pound of extra iceberg lettuce. Truly, the most lettuce I've EVER had in a burger. Once was enough.

[DrBruin]

I had a surprisingly tasty burger at the LAX Hilton (off of Century) at their Cafe Restaurant while staying their the past week for a conference. Normally, I find hotel restaurant burgers to be "blah." I wasn't even that hungry when I ordered it but after a few bites, I probably could've downed 2-3 of them (if my wife wouldn't give me grief for doing so... and, if they were less expensive..$15 for burger and fries).

The bun was firm (not entirely sure what the bread was... kinda had a brioche-type look to it but I don't htink it was brioche), the beef was moist and beefy (a thicker patty), the arugula added another layer of flavor (I wished there was more of it), the bacon was lean, meaty and crispy (something that I find most places can't deliver... since it's either crispy overcooked or too limp) , and their cheddar (they said the name of the type of cheddar on their menu but I can't recall it... taligia or something along those lines but not taleggio) was firmer than most cheddars I've had, having almost a parmesan-type texture. The accompanying fries were thick cut and sprinkled with garlic and parmesan. I normally don't like thick cut fries, but these were tasty.

[Harry Nile]

It wasn't a Tillamook cheddar from Oregon, was it? They currently have a "Vintage White Extra Sharp 3 Year 100TH Anniversary" cheddar that must be pretty firm (and most likely crumbly).

[DrBruin]

No, I would have remembered Tillamook.

[ReelMike84]

I wouldn't go as far to say it's the best burger in town, but I just had a great BUFFALO BURGER at BILLY'S GRILL in SHERMAN OAKS with a side of ONION RINGS.

Juicy burger with great grilled onions. The venison my friend ordered that I got a taste of tasted great as well. Next time though I'd forgo the cheese so I can really taste the meat, and I'd pass on the onion rings. They were OK rings (beer battered) but I think I'm more partial to breaded.

The place was also kinda pricey if you get the combo like I did. For the rings, drink, and the burger it cost me around $12. It was priced higher because it's exotic meat, but even their basic burger sans a combo is just under $7.

[wooster]

Randomly had an amazing chile burger at Le Grande Orange the other day. They nailed it with the meat..

[mopeyboy]

Please! I'm looking for a specific type of burger. Some call them "Cafe", "Old Fashioned", "Drive-In", or "Drugstore". Pie & Burger is an example but the trek from Culver City is too far to go on a regular basis. I wrote last year about Apple Pan. I have since decided I was wrong. They are tasteless. Look, all this stuff about the add-ons is fine for some but the real way to taste a burger is: the burger, the bun, and maybe some cheese. Then, if you must, go from there. No arugula. No bleu cheese. No lettuce. No tomato. Anyone out there?

[JAB]

In-N-Out double double with grilled onions and spread only. And so much cheaper than Pie & Burger.

[Harry Nile]

"Cheaper" is correct. Let me just say that I prefer the taste at Pie 'n Burger.

Here's a challenge for INO-ters. Get at least a half-order of the luscious hashbrowns at Pie 'n Burger and then stop by your favorite INO for the tender and tasteless cardboard they call french fries.

Too cruel? Challenge #2: Finish the Pie 'n Burger meal with your favorite pie, and then head to INO for their concession to dessert -- a decent but unexciting milkshake. (If you really want to challenge PNB on dessert, go to Portillo's for a chocolate cake shake or to the Bake 'n Broil for almost anything on their pie and cake list.)

[westsidegal]

i think you are being overly kind in your description of the in and out milkshake.
has the plasticky taste and mouthfeel of artificial goop (sort of like cool whip)

[Ernie]

Bake 'n Broil in Long Beach make one of my favorite burgers in LA County. Nothing fancy, just quality meat and bun, and I like it with grilled onions, lettuce, tomato, and cheese. Fantastic

[maxzook]

Andrew's North Hollywood Diner (formerly known as Sitton's). Bun, ground meat, one slice of non-artisan Kraft American. Everything else on the side.

[Harry Nile]

I can say from experience that's absolutely right, mopeyboy. In fact, pulling off a bite or two of plain beef from every burger to test separately -- no bun, no cheese, no dressings -- could bring one's confident burger world tumbling down. (This is a risky scientific procedure that children should NOT attempt.)

[annapurna7]

I recently had both Umami and Father's Office burgers for the first time this week.

We shared a Port & Stilton and a Casablanca burger from Umami and we both got the signature burger at FO.

I have to say that I love both places. The burgers at Umami and FO were so different that I shouldn't even compare the two places, they both serve VERY good burgers. They both use quality ingredients and have a good contrast between sweet and salty.

However, If I had to choose between the two for dinner right now, I would choose Father's Office. Their burger is a more substantial burger, I felt full after eating it. After eating at Umami, while the burger was good, I still felt a smidgen hungry. While, eating the Office burger, as my husband said, I felt like I was eating a farm. The mix of the Maytag cheese with the onions, arugula and a perfectly cooked medium rare patty just did it for me. I really didn't get that impression from Umami, which isn't a knock on them, but I think I need to try the SoCal burger or Umami burger, which may be more similar to the Office burger.

[Servorg]

I really can't say that I have ever had a better quality burger (in terms of the beef used) than the one served at Father's Office. It is stellar. And I always get mine medium rare and it's always done perfectly. I like to let the bartender choose a beer for me (I always tell them to surprise me with something they like). Did you go the LA FO or the Santa Monica one?

[annapurna7]

The LA one. It is close to work and convenient for me to get to.

[dineomatic]

Went to Golden Harvest cafe a few days ago just before the place really filled up. However, we were seated within five minutes and the food came promptly. The bacon cheeseburger and blt avocado sandwich we shared were very good. Their house dipping sauce was also terrific. Beer selection is limited but excellent (I like stouts). Also their menu has other choices besides only burgers. On the downside the place is tiny, a bit uncomfortable and overlit.

Went to the Silverlake Umami Burger tonight. We shared the So Cal and the Umami Burger with fries and onion rings. Liked everything very much except for the semi-slimy mushroom that goes on the Umami (you really can't taste it and the texture is off putting).

I am not a big ketchup fan but their take on it had a great complex flavor.Aioli sauce was also fine. The butter pecan ice cream sandwich we shared was outstanding. Judging from the Thai lager beer that accompanies their burger combo #1, The Golden Harvest Cafe is way ahead of them in that department. otherwise the space is larger and more relaxed than GHC and burgers are maybe a bit tastier. Prices are similar but no waiter service at GHC means you save on a tip. Hmm. It's a toss up.

[sel]

Golden Harvest Cafe? Do you mean The Golden State on Fairfax Avenue?

[dineomatic]

Yes, I do! My apologies. Typed that one late at night.

[jayspun]

Just tried Bill's in Van Nuys and while the burger did not claim the best burger status in my world, it was a tasty burger. Definitely in-n-out style, perhaps better than in-n-out. Make sure to get the double though cause the patty is quite thin.