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1988 Mouton-Rothchild - Which rating is correct?!

Charles Yu Jun 27, 2006 12:07 AM

For my best buddy's upcoming birthday, I am planning to bring along a really special wine from my cellar for his birthday dinner. I set my eyes on the 1988 Mouton since my notes told me it has a 'Wine Spectator rating of 100/100!' However, recently, I came across a copy of Robert Parker's Wine Buyer's Guide which only rated the wine a non-spectacular 88/100!! A whopping 12 points difference!! Now, who do I believe?! Any fellow chowhound tasted the wine before and can provide me with some non-bias input?! I just wanted to make sure my wine will not be the culprit of an anti-climatic experience for that special evening! Thanks!

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  1. Fwagra RE: Charles Yu Jun 27, 2006 02:18 AM

    Ahhh, very interesting.

    First, are you sure that both of those disparate ratings refer to the exact same wine? I know that sounds dumb, but you must check to ensure that, for example, one of the ratings does not apply to the Chateau's second wine, or something like that.

    Second, assuming that both ratings apply to the same wine, I prefer WS ratings, especially with respect to Old World wines. I think that WS seems to favour California, while it is tougher on European wine.

    Third, let's face it: I don't really know the answer, and neither does anyone. Parker liked it, and WS loved it. Try for yourself and remember which critic you agree with. I keep notes and "rate the critics" in an attempt to figure out who really recommends well.

    Fourth, enjoy that incredible and rare wine. Forget what they say, and just enjoy it. Then compare. And, let us know too!

    3 Replies
    1. re: Fwagra
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      Lord Griffin RE: Fwagra Jun 27, 2006 05:30 PM

      just checked out the wine spectator rating and with two listings, no differentiation except for the taste description it received a 94, and a 100. the 94 must be the second wine and thats probably the one parker gave an 88...

      1. re: Lord Griffin
        Robert Lauriston RE: Lord Griffin Jun 27, 2006 05:54 PM

        The difference is the issue date. Rating from 1991 was 100; rating from 1998 was 94.

        1. re: Robert Lauriston
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          Lord Griffin RE: Robert Lauriston Jun 27, 2006 08:04 PM

          ahh indeed did not see that

    2. c
      Cladmadder RE: Charles Yu Jun 27, 2006 02:22 PM

      Trust your own tasting skills! Don't worry about what the WS and Parker say, they exist to offer you opinions. Dont allow them to be your opressive overlords of wine-dom. 1988 was a very good vintage which is often overlooked due to the two monster vintages of 1989 and 1990. It should be in (or entering)its peak right about now and should be an excellent "special occasion" choice. So decide for yourself who was better at rating the wine, Parker or WS after all, you have the final say. If you are still worried bring an alternative. It can't hurt to have another great bottle ready, just in case.

      1. d
        Darren72 RE: Charles Yu Jun 27, 2006 02:46 PM

        I can't help but point out that the advice to "Trust your own tasting skills!" doesn't really help in this situation. If he tastes the wine, then he can't bring it to the party. :)

        5 Replies
        1. re: Darren72
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          Cladmadder RE: Darren72 Jun 27, 2006 03:30 PM

          Sorry Ill try to be more specific. It should be a great bottle of wine, don't worry about the ratings. Also dont open it before the party to taste it, then drive to the party with an open bottle in your car. It will probably spill thus wasting a super bottle of juice and potentially filling up your car with millions of fruit flys.

          1. re: Cladmadder
            Robert Lauriston RE: Cladmadder Jun 27, 2006 04:35 PM

            Driving an unopened bottle of old wine to a dinner can mess up the flavor.

            1. re: Robert Lauriston
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              Darren72 RE: Robert Lauriston Jun 27, 2006 05:14 PM

              I presume you are referring to the idea that vibrations can ruin a wine's flavor. People were very worried about vibrations coming from cellar cooling units. This worry turns out to be unfounded. Vibrations do not affect a wine's taste (Emile Peynaud's book 'The Taste of Wine' goes through this and perhaps has some references).

              Vibrations do, however, stir up the sediment. So you might want to let the bottle stand upright for 30 minutes or so once you get to your friends house, if you are worried about this. The taste won't be affected one way or the other. Decanting would also relieve this issue.

              1. re: Darren72
                Robert Lauriston RE: Darren72 Jun 27, 2006 05:21 PM

                If you drive gently and keep the wine upright, a short car trip might not matter, but after a long drive with lots of stops and starts, it may take days for the wine to recover. Even wines with no sediment sometimes need to rest for a few weeks after shipping before they taste right.

              2. re: Robert Lauriston
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                mpalmer6c RE: Robert Lauriston Aug 23, 2008 09:39 PM

                So you recommend driving only with an opened bottle of wine?

          2. l
            Lord Griffin RE: Charles Yu Jun 27, 2006 04:57 PM

            its a 1988 mouton-rothschild, one of the most legendary wines there is (not the vintage). which means one of two things: first, its definitely a damn good wine, and second, if its not ridiculously amazing you will at least have something to talk about. if someone let me open a bottle of mouton-rothschild that was filled with mud for my birthday i would be happy.

            1. Robert Lauriston RE: byrd Jun 27, 2006 06:38 PM

              I haven't seen the print edition in years but winespectator.com's user notes are often useful for confirming or adjusting the magazine's published ratings.

              1. Charles Yu RE: Charles Yu Jun 27, 2006 11:13 PM

                Many thanks for all your feedback, Fellow Chowhounds. Irrespective of whether its WS or RP, their early or recent review/edition, looks like the Mouton is only a 89-94 pts wine. ie., Good to great but not a classic. Since I promised my buddy that I'll bring along a wine that would provide the 'WOW' factor fot that evening ( winewise ), I guess I'll play it safe and bring along a 1990 Latour instead. At least I know for sure its going to be near perfect to perfect, according to BOTH WS and RP!! However, the wine might be 'corked'!!! Ha!

                4 Replies
                1. re: Charles Yu
                  byrd RE: Charles Yu Jul 2, 2006 02:42 PM

                  it will be a shame to drink the 90 latour at this stage of its life, i guarantee you it is still closed and tannic, the 88 mouton should be drinking perfectly, 5 years from now start drinking the latour.
                  JMHO

                  1. re: byrd
                    Charles Yu RE: byrd Aug 23, 2008 08:28 PM

                    You are right!! The Latour was still 'closed' and far from ready!

                    1. re: Charles Yu
                      r
                      RicRios RE: Charles Yu Aug 23, 2008 09:11 PM

                      Readers of this thread, don't miss the up & coming posting, Year of the Lord 2018.

                      1. re: RicRios
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                        whiner RE: RicRios Aug 23, 2008 11:56 PM

                        ^^^

                        :-D

                2. z
                  zin1953 RE: Charles Yu Aug 24, 2008 02:26 PM

                  >>> 1988 Mouton-Rothchild - Which rating is correct?! <<<

                  Both.

                  Regardless of WHAT the number is, the wine itself will taste the same.

                  1 Reply
                  1. re: zin1953
                    c
                    chefdilettante RE: zin1953 Aug 24, 2008 03:17 PM

                    Couldn't have said it better myself.

                    This anxiety over numbers is what's wrong with the current American wine scene.

                  2. b
                    Brad Ballinger RE: Charles Yu Aug 24, 2008 07:21 PM

                    Years from now when I open mine, I'll come back to this board and let y'all know.

                    4 Replies
                    1. re: Brad Ballinger
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                      WineGuyToledo RE: Brad Ballinger Aug 28, 2008 06:52 PM

                      I opened one this weekend and it was drinking quite nicely- medium body with decent, but somewhat light, fruit. No sharp tannins; all the edges have rounded off, but it isn't showing any fatigue yet. It is a classic Mouton that won't get any better, but I think it will stay at a very nice place 5-10 more years (which I am banking on since I still have some).

                      1. re: WineGuyToledo
                        Charles Yu RE: WineGuyToledo Aug 28, 2008 08:59 PM

                        Thanks a lot for your latest tasting note/input. May be I'll wait till 2018 to open it along side with a bottle of 1988 D'Yquem.

                        1. re: Charles Yu
                          girobike RE: Charles Yu Oct 2, 2008 05:11 AM

                          Hi Charles,

                          My family and I tried many bottles of late 70s Sauternes - they are all drinking perfectly. Magically. I really wouldn't open the Sauternes until the opportune time. The high sugar content will keep it going for a while. Figure a few more years (25 sound like a lucky number) and pop it.

                        2. re: WineGuyToledo
                          J.L. RE: WineGuyToledo Oct 2, 2008 03:39 AM

                          In completely agreement with WineGuyToledo above, since I had myself tasted a bottle of this exact wine myself last night (sans food).

                          I will be having another bottle of this 1988 Mouton this weekend with some steak. Will report back afterwards!

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