303246 Sun Jun 04 03:28:02 -0700 2006 19 29 Not About Food 0 1704194 A poster on the LA board asked about East Coast style diners in LA. I wonder, when I think of places that serve "Diner " food, institutions such as "Delores", "Raes", "Panns" etc, they are "Coffeeshops" . How are "Coffeeshops" and "Diners" similar, how are they different? They serve many of the same foods. Is a"Diner" a place evolved from roadhouse, truckstop, early 20th century working class roots? And is "Coffeeshop" more of suburban, leisure class,idea? Just wondering?? Sun Jun 04 03:28:02 -0700 2006 0 ciaolette 1 1704202 Where I grew up--St. Louis/Chicago--diners were urban working class places that served shift workers at factories/plants/breweries where people worked around the clock. They are open 24 hours. Sun Jun 04 07:58:31 -0700 2006 1704194 0 butterfly 2 1704203 I always think of diners as having lots more seats than coffee shops, and are usually in their own separate building, most often railroad cars around here. They have 20 page menus, and usually make mixed drinks, and are open 24 hours. Coffee shops (luncheonettes) are usually a single counter with maybe a few booths behind, serve only breakfast and lunch, and have a one or two page menu. They both cook almost everything on a grill though. Sun Jun 04 08:37:02 -0700 2006 1704202 0 coll 1 1704214 You may be refering to my post. I had recently visited Boston and ahead of time posted on the Boston Board a request for old Diners with a counter and good food. The Boston Hounds had some great recs. Our Fav Diner was the "Deluxe Town Diner." A MUST try. I wrote about the Deluxe on The Boston Board on April 14. I am still thinking about the smoked and grilled pork chop. The link below is for the meaning of "Diner." Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diner Sun Jun 04 12:45:33 -0700 2006 1704194 0 Like-Go-Eat? 2 1704215 I found My Boston Post -- Link below. See the address for Deluxe Town for a web page. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/boards/notfood/notfood.html Sun Jun 04 12:51:09 -0700 2006 1704214 0 Like-Go-Eat? 1 1704216 A Diner is a state of mind in the American imagination; a coffeeshop is not. Sun Jun 04 13:24:04 -0700 2006 1704194 0 Karl S 2 1704412 beautifully said. Thu Jun 08 16:15:47 -0700 2006 1704216 0 rm33 1 1704220 Ok, from the posts so far I guess that "diner", evolved from 24 hr, urban or industrial area , workingclass basic place to eat, sometimes including a bar. And that a coffeeshop started out as more of a lunchcounter. Of course I am speaking of pre Starbucks coffee shops. If you google "Coffeeshop" , most of what is found are along the Starbucks model. What I mean by coffeeshop would be something like Panns, here in LA The Panns website describes a "coffeeshop" thus: "The growth of the coffee shop was proliferating. Throughout Los Angeles these restaurants were fast becoming known as the place where you could meet for breakfast lunch or diner. And they served more than just coffee! Coffee shops were not pretentious or formal. They were known for friendly service, antiseptically clean spaces and, most importantly, good honest food. This is exactly what they wanted... and more! They believed in the importance of a scrupulously clean restaurant that featured polite, courteous service and good honest food produced from the best products available." Link: http://www.panns.com/ Sun Jun 04 16:24:35 -0700 2006 1704194 0 ciaolette 2 1704223 When I think of an LA coffee shop, I always think of that infamous scene in Pulp Fiction. That was a coffeeshop, right? Where I grew up, we wouldn't have called this a diner, but we wouldn't have called it a coffee shop, either.... We just called places like this by name. And then there are cafes, which are sort of like fancy coffee/sandwich shops with a limited menu. And cafeterias, which have little or nothing to do with coffee... Sun Jun 04 16:54:22 -0700 2006 1704220 0 butterfly 3 1704253 I don't know..... I grew up in New Jersey (know for its Diners) and the place in Pulp Fiction sure looked like a something I'd call a Diner. It had a counter with stools for individuals. It didn't seem to have any sort of quaint theme to it's decorations or waitstaff (no flare apparent). and the food was served on basic plates with no nonsense. That's a diner to me. Mon Jun 05 12:04:16 -0700 2006 1704223 0 Insatiable 4 1704271 For us, diners were always less homey than this one. Stark lighting. White tile, stainless steel or otherwise stark walls. Limited menu. As I remember, the coffee shop in the movie has an earthy, seventies color scheme. And perhaps even carpet (really need to rent the movie to confirm all of this). It just a California kind of feel that no diner where I grew up would ever have. Kind of like a Wags, which I would never call a diner. A little googling confirmed my suspicions... the manager of the restaurant in Pulp Fiction is credited as "Coffee Shop." This due to the one line that he uttered: "I am not a hero, I'm just a coffee shop..." Mon Jun 05 15:18:48 -0700 2006 1704253 0 butterfly 5 1704282 ...and in LA, that's what these places are called, even if they have the word "diner" somewhere in their name. OTOH there are those cutesy "retro" places like Ruby's or Johnny Rockets that also called themselves diners, and in conversation they might be called that, or they might be referred to simply as "burger joints". I do believe that the only eating establishment in LA that uses a former rail car as part of its structure is the Pacific Dining Car, which is emphatically NOT a diner, but one of the most expensive semi-casual dining places in town. Mon Jun 05 16:41:23 -0700 2006 1704271 0 Will Owen 5 1704292 FWIW, The coffee shop in Pulp Fiction was called the Hawthorne Grill (and before that Holly's). It's since been demolished which is a shame as it was a Googie style restaurant designed by Armet and Davis, famous for their Southern California coffee shop architecture. More on Googie and Coffeeshop Modern: http://www.spaceagecity.com/googie/ Link: http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southwest/california/socal/socaleats/socalcoffeeshop/index5.htm Mon Jun 05 20:31:07 -0700 2006 1704271 0 petradish 5 1704296 For anyone from Northern NJ, a diner certainly does not have a limited menu. Every diner I've been to has at least an 8 page menu with breakfast dishes, sandwiches, grilled cheese, seafood, veal, etc. even though I've never seen anyone order the Veal Piccata there. If someone said coffeshop, I think of the informal restaurants in hotels. Mon Jun 05 21:39:14 -0700 2006 1704271 0 ES 1 1704231 coffee shop - usually named after owner. counter is center of attention. maybe 5-15 additional tables. griddle man (usually owner) prepares eggs, omelette, toast, bacon and other normal breakfast fare. muffins and donuts maybe. bottomless coffee cup. at lunch they add burgers, fries, egg and chicken salad sandwiches on a few bread choices and rolls. couple of flavors of ice cream and one or two pies/cakes. menu normally written long hand diner - usually named after town, location or american hero, followed by "diner". counter overlooks spinning cake and pie holder, which overlooks glass fridges with even more cakes and pies. menues slighly shorter than War & Peace. every imaginable ethnic cuisine (except chinese) from italian to greek to jewish to american. tables are the center of attention. Sun Jun 04 19:57:39 -0700 2006 1704194 0 jfood 1 1704235 To me, 'diner', is the prefabricated restaurant that the Wikipedia article describes. Decorations tend to be in the art deco or stainless steel style. It says 1/3 of them are in New Jersey. The Wikipedia article on coffeeshops is not as helpful. Actually they are discussed in an article on coffeehouses, which has a more international character. To me a coffeeshop is similar to a cafe, and probably has more emphasis on baked goods than a diner. I think of Dennys as a chain version of a coffeeshop. paulj Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diner Sun Jun 04 20:48:52 -0700 2006 1704194 0 paulj 1 1704240 For me, a coffeeshop is one of those places that function as the hang-out center in college towns. They serve bagels and maybe some sandwiches. Coffeeshops might have internet access and lean towards the "healthy" versions of things. Coffeeshops focus on coffee, and not as much on food. You either get your coffee to go or hang out in the wooden chairs at wooden tables drinking your coffee from a plastic cup and studying. They are the local pre-starbucks inspiration. They are not "cafes" because there is nothing cafe-ish about them. They are not elegant, they are hippie-ish or extremely plain. People hang out there to talk about serious things, not to people watch. At a diner, the table is greasy formica, there are booths, and the coffee is served to you in ceramic cups. The menu is laminated and they serve breakfast, at least. The food is better than in a coffeeshop, and usually the coffee is too. You eat in, you don't take out. You usually get the greasiest thing on the menu. Their "healthy"offerings include cottage cheese plates with melon. There are often pies on offer which may be made in house. They are often open until late at night, though some close after breakfast. Both diners (in the U.S.) and cafes (in Europe) are the most fun when tired/ hungover. Coffeeshops make you feel worse in that state of mind. Sun Jun 04 23:09:43 -0700 2006 1704194 0 fara 1 1704241 As we can see from the crossfire of all these postings, what's a diner and what's a coffee shop depends very much on where you grew up and what the local milieu is. I have been to both fullblown restaurants and tiny corner joints that called themselves diners, or coffee shops, or cafes, or lunch counters...I like the fact that John Baeder's books of diner paintings cover pretty much all of these places, excepting only the ones inhabiting space in bus stations, hotels, bowling alleys and airports. I don't see any good reason to differentiate one from the other. To me, they're all the kinds of places beloved be both me and the Sterns and their ilk: places where you can drop in for a burger, bacon and eggs, a cup of coffee and a piece of pie just about any time. Let me have my food first, and then you can ask me to figure out what to call it. Sun Jun 04 23:17:40 -0700 2006 1704194 0 Will Owen 1 1704297 The difference is the coast you're on. Mon Jun 05 22:27:56 -0700 2006 1704194 0 Amuse Bouche 1 1704308 The link below has several links with photos of the American Roadside including Diner, Coffee Shop, Drive-in and more. The photos reflect the original use of the words but more recently these words have a more liberal regional use much the same as "Barbegue" and "Grill." In a nut shell, In the old days we would say... Diner is a small pre-fab building able to be moved like a trailer. The counter is the hart of a diner. Most times a Art Deco style street car look. A Coffee Shop or Cafe is like the place in Pulp Fiction or Pann's in L.A. (photo in link below). May have a counter but tables or booths will be there for a more private conversation ("Lets talk-it over a cup of coffee and a slice of pie"). A Coffee House is a place where Beatniks gathered to drink coffee and read poetry. Today Yupies gather at Starbucks, sit outside and read the paper (brining a dog is not required but some do it). "Be Somebody." A Lunch Counter is really most often just a counter located inside a department store, Woolworth's and other "Five and Dimes." A great place to order a cup of Coffee and Stage a "Sit-in" to make the world a better place. http://www.civilrightsmuseum.org/gallery/studentsitins.asp A Greasy Spoon can be any of the above with a "C" rating from the local Health Department. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greasy_spoon Link: http://www.dinercity.com/ Tue Jun 06 13:14:29 -0700 2006 1704194 0 Like-Go-Eat?