303140 Thu Apr 27 14:44:00 -0700 2006 18 29 Not About Food 0 1702600 I was recently discussing stone crabs with a friend, and was telling him how only the claws are harvested. In order to protect the fishery (or crabbery), the commercial crabbers catch the crabs, snap off a claw, and toss the crab back in the water, where the claw regenerates. After I explained this, my friend said, "So would a vegetarian be willing to eat the claws? After all, the animal wasn't killed." I'd never thought about that. Of course, a vegetarian might still have ethical issues with this, since the crab probably doesn't enjoy having one of its claws broken off. Still, it's an interesting question -- any thoughts? -- Paul Thu Apr 27 14:44:00 -0700 2006 0 Paul Lukas 1 1702604 It would depend on the vegetarian! People are vegetarians for different reasons -- for example, for someone who is a vegetarian for health reasons, it would make no difference whether the crab is killed or not. Every vegetarian I know draws the lines in a different place. Thu Apr 27 15:39:53 -0700 2006 1702600 0 Ruth Lafler 2 1702651 That's why it's such a flimsy concept. Who says plants have no feelings? People talk to their cactuses and care for them just like pets, right? Fri Apr 28 13:26:41 -0700 2006 1702604 0 welle 3 1702663 :D Fri Apr 28 14:52:33 -0700 2006 1702651 0 Sir Gawain 3 1702797 Ah yes, the classic fruitarian point of view. I go off of two pithy arguments... If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat, or made them taste so good. And my ancestors didn't claw their way up the food chain for me to have a salad. Link: http://thecosmicjester.blogspot.com Thu May 04 00:40:35 -0700 2006 1702651 0 JK Grence (the Cosmic Jester) 1 1702610 Though not a vegetarian myself, I was raised in a vegetarian household and lived in a vegetarian co-op so I have a good understanding of the various vegetarian philosophies. Some folks call themselves "vegetarian" and still eat seafood, or processed food derived from animals, or only keep a vegetarian diet when it is convenient. But strict vegetarians don't eat meat, period. For a strict vegetarian the method of obtaining meat is completely irrelevant. Thu Apr 27 16:30:52 -0700 2006 1702600 0 Morton the Mousse 1 1702621 As far as I'm concerned, if a person eats a crab claw (or any crab, or fish, or chicken), they are NOT a vegetarian by definition. Of course there are lots of people that like to call themselves vegetarians but still eat animal flesh. Some of those will likely eat your crab claws, some certainly will not. But anyone who does is not a vegetarian in my book. I am not a vegetarian, by the way. Thu Apr 27 19:55:04 -0700 2006 1702600 0 nja 1 1702622 At a birthday party, we were passing around a platter of oysters, and on picking one up the sort-of vegetarian sitting next to me remarked, "I don't usually eat dead things." As he was swallowing, I said, "These aren't dead." Thu Apr 27 20:17:03 -0700 2006 1702600 0 Robert Lauriston 2 1702625 I almost never laugh out loud while reading, but I'm literally in tears right now. What was his reaction? Thu Apr 27 21:06:58 -0700 2006 1702622 0 nja 3 1702672 Can't remember. He didn't throw up or anything. Fri Apr 28 17:21:07 -0700 2006 1702625 0 Robert Lauriston 2 1702631 Not dead?? Hmmm... Unless you were eating whole oysters (unopened), shell and all they were most assuredly dead. Perhaps not long dead, but dead nonetheless. Gusman Thu Apr 27 23:52:59 -0700 2006 1702622 0 Gusman 3 1702634 Most assuredly NOT dead, unless opened a long time previous and/or not opened properly. A classic demonstration in invertebrate zoology lab courses is to open a live clam (admittedly not an oyster, but close enough) and sprinkle iron filings or similar small particles on the gills to watch the way ciliated cells move food from the gill surfaces to the mouth. If kept wet and reasonably cool, bivalves can live this way for some hours. Fri Apr 28 08:39:11 -0700 2006 1702631 0 FlyFish 4 1702712 I stand humbly corrected! I've not studied Zoology (but have just completed my first *human* anatomy course) nor the oyster book, but always understood that splitting the shells of bivalves rendered them... well, mostly dead. Live and learn! Cheers... Gusman Sun Apr 30 00:09:04 -0700 2006 1702634 0 Gusman 3 1702646 "they were most assuredly dead" Not according to the book, The Big Oyster. Fri Apr 28 11:46:59 -0700 2006 1702631 0 Alan408 2 1702697 Fantastic, brilliant, touche!!!!! My wife sits in awe when I write on this site and you are now an official member of the "sick puppy" club. Thank you so much for this laugh over coffee on a saturday morning. BTW - if the oyster was dead the eatee would have known about it a few hours later...so no dead, no harm no foul. Sat Apr 29 09:16:24 -0700 2006 1702622 0 ncchowdog 1 1702643 On a somewhat related note, rules of Kashrut (kosher-ness) include a rule that you can not eat a peice of meat cut off of a live animal. Obviously the crab is out of the picture anyway for Kashrut. But I would think this rule (and question) would also relate to the practice now being researched of 'growing' meat from meat stem cells, which can be taken from a live animal. Thank you. Link: http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/scitech/release.cfm?ArticleID=1098 Fri Apr 28 10:56:41 -0700 2006 1702600 0 Bride of the Juggler 1 1702707 It looks like I'm the first vegetarian to answer this question. As another poster mentioned, there are several forms of vegetarianism and everyone practices theirs for a different reason. I'm an ovo-lacto veg. and simply don't want to eat meat. I wouldn't eat the crab leg. I should also point out that when your stomach hasn't had to digest meat for a long time, trying to do so will make you ill. My DH doesn't eat red meat, but on the one occasion when he tried, it made him very ill. And when I have unknowingly eaten something that had meat in it (e.g., sauteed spinach I ate in a restaurant, that had chicken broth in it) I am sick to my stomach for days. So that crab would have it's revenge. Sat Apr 29 18:06:58 -0700 2006 1702600 0 Dev 2 1702831 I wouldn't generalize about this. Myself and just about all of my friends were veg in our 20s, and we all have stories about accidentally eating meat once every 5 years (things like Taco Bell tacos after a night at a bar), and no one ever got sick. Also, we all stopped being veg in our 30s, and no one had problems digesting meat. Thu May 04 14:59:01 -0700 2006 1702707 0 christy 1 1702722 You can be a vegetarian for other reasons than for the well being of animals. Your own well-being, for example, or for issues of the environment. I don't think a planet with 6.5 billion people can feed everyone the standard meat-heavy American diet. I worry about overfishing and think fish and seafood farming is bad for the environment, so even the crab claws are problematic for me if they are farmed. I don't think you have to be a vegetarian to believe that you don't want animals to suffer unnecessarily. When you learn about modern CAFO (concentrated animal feeding operation) farming, only those with the hardest of hearts can help feeling disgusted with it. Sun Apr 30 16:00:02 -0700 2006 1702600 0 Snackish