303081 Thu Apr 06 22:02:17 -0700 2006 13 29 Not About Food 0 1701622 Whether I'm planning a dinner party or organizing a group for a dinner at a restaurant I'm in a quandry about the "etiquette" of inviting friends I know will probably not be able to attend ~ other commitments, group dynamics, etc. As we all know, planning the menu or making a reservation at a restaurant is dependent on the number who have accepted the invitation. Recently, I offended a friend because I didn't invite her to a lunch and when I asked her if she would have attended she admitted she probably wouldn't have. My response was...that is why I didn't invite you. Now my friend thinks I still should have invited her and given her the opportunity to tell me she wouldn't be able to make it. This a very good friend of mine and I didn't mean to offend her but damn...why would I invite someone if they can't make it. I guess I'm stuck in the middle ~ I see her point that she felt left out and maybe it is proper etiquette to invite a person no matter what but I also see it a bit like banging my head against a wall to ask someone I know who will tell me they can't make it. This isn't a life or death issue but nobody I've spoken to can tell me what the proper etiquette is in this instance. Thank you for your advice and comments... Thu Apr 06 22:02:17 -0700 2006 0 IslandGirl 1 1701636 Your friend is way out of line. Don't strain to see her point; you might go cross-eyed in the process. You were perfectly correct in the first place. A putative guest have no "right" to hospitality unless and until an invitation is tendered. The point of an invitation is not to make someone feel included; it is to arrange for specific hospitality. Ritual family events (weddings, christenings, et cet.) where ritual invitations are tendered to incapacitated friends and relatives as a form of announcement are to be distinguished (though it would even there help if people remembered the now-almost-lost art of announcements doing the work they are supposed to do....). Fri Apr 07 08:42:25 -0700 2006 1701622 0 Karl S 2 1701637 Well put - I agree - that as my first reaction as well - you are free to choose your guests. Fri Apr 07 09:34:27 -0700 2006 1701636 0 MMRuth 1 1701638 I am sorry your friend feels slighted, but I do not think the perceived insult will linger. In the past I have put myself through utter Hell by inviting 2 dozen guests to an event I thought only half would attend, only to be unexpectedly deluged with last minute acceptance notifications! COnversely, my workplace was attempting to host a reletively (for us) formal event with a visiting presenter, but approached the invitation process so casually, our expected hoards never materialized and we wound up cancelling the event. From my experience, the more formal the event, the broader and earlier the invitations should be extended- guests will have ample time to accept, decline, or alter their own schedules to accomodate the event and leave you with enough time to tailor your plans to an accurate venue/menu/seating plan... If, however, this was an idea you hatched on Sunday for a convivial lunch on an as-yet-undefined weekday, or, like my friends: Hey! I'm going to the movies- any body wanna come with me?- kind of situation, picking an choosing who you call is just a more effiecient way getting to the fun. I am under the impression that you like to host these events with some regularity (even if it is somewhat spontaneous), so I wouldn't worry about this one slightly less than perfect guest list. You'll get your friend the next time! Fri Apr 07 09:35:27 -0700 2006 1701622 0 jdherbert 1 1701641 The bottom line is if you want the person to attend, send the invitation. If you don't want to invite that person, do not send and invitation. It is poor etiquette to extend an invitation under the guise of being polite. By second guessing your guests, you have backed yourself in a corner and hurt your friends feelings. Fri Apr 07 10:06:27 -0700 2006 1701622 0 BlueHerons 2 1701686 Exactly. Whether you invite someone should be based on whether you sincerely want them to attend, not on your assumptions about whether they will attend. If you really would have invited her if you thought she would attend, you should have done so, and let her make the decision for herself. You can always accompany the formal invitation with a note/conversation saying something like, "I really hope you can come, but I'll understand if your other obligations mean you'll have to decline. We can always get together another time." Conversely, if for some reason you don't want to invite her, don't invite her (of course you don't rub it in, either, by talking to her about it unnecessarily). That said, the other posters are right that your friend shouldn't be too bent out of shape -- you don't owe her an invitation. Or rather, although hospitality you've received should be reciprocated, you don't owe her a *specific* invitation. Fri Apr 07 15:41:46 -0700 2006 1701641 0 Ruth Lafler 1 1701644 i struggle with the same thing. there are several people within my group of friends that seem to be ultimately offended when they're not notified of some "event" going on even if i know that they're going to be out of town. the way that one of them put it is that "it's nice to be known that i'm being thought of". so the way i deal with it now? formal events have strict invitations with strict rsvps. otherwise i've learned to take things more lightly and roll with the punches. Or should there be any growth in number for my reservation at the last minute, i make them call and try to change it. if you can't abide by my rsvp rules, i'm not obligated to host you to the full extent. i don't think you're in the wrong btw. people feel slighted all the time without rational thought. Link: http://tongueandcheek.ca Fri Apr 07 10:38:09 -0700 2006 1701622 0 pinstripeprincess 2 1701648 Invitations are *not* a way to let people know you are thinking of them, and people who complain that they are not being used as such have no ground to do so. Perfectly Proper notes, letters, flowers, candy and phone calls and e-mails (though given the clutter of email for some folks, I'd make the last an emergency crutch only) are the tried and true ways to let someone know "thinking of you". Fri Apr 07 11:21:32 -0700 2006 1701644 0 Karl S 1 1701678 Thanks for your comments...as always very insightful and helpful. You are right my friend is fine it was just the particular event this week that really got me thinking about what I should do in future when the situation presents itself again. I try not to second guess my friends but when they tell me they are busy with guests from overseas AND I know they can't stand most of the people attending...I take those as hints and act accordingly. Also without realizing it I was treading into that minefield of group dynamics and how my friends from different groups interact with one another... I need a nice glass of wine and some nice dark chocolate to ponder that one... Fri Apr 07 14:48:23 -0700 2006 1701622 0 IslandGirl 1 1701680 You should always extend the invitation if it is appropriate, even if you know the person can not attend. You can preface it by saying, I know you have plans, and you don't like the people . . ., but you are invited. Fri Apr 07 14:49:50 -0700 2006 1701622 0 eric 1 1701682 I agree that no one should be guilted into extending an invitation. However, if you would otherwise invite somebody to an event but don't because you think they can't or won't accept, then that is an insult. The reason being that you are not allowing that person to make the decision for herself. Fri Apr 07 14:59:19 -0700 2006 1701622 0 mw 2 1701691 Normally I agree (though I wouldn't go so far as to call it an insult). I think there were 2 other factors in play here: 1. She had several friends she was sure wouldn't attend, and believed that, were she to invite them, they would not RSVP and she would be forced to make a restaurant reservation that included them, then be faced with a much larger table than she needed. 2. She has two friends who cant stand each other and she fears that, if she invites the one who normally wouldnt show up, that friend will feel obliged to come, and she will come and unpleantness will ensue when the 2 incompatible people meet. Fri Apr 07 16:37:46 -0700 2006 1701682 0 Brian S 3 1701698 You're right, insult is a bit over the top. I reread the OP and I didn't see any mention of friends that wouldn't rsvp, just that she didn't think one friend would accept, which is why she didn't invite her. As for inviting people who don't like each other, if for whatever reason you don't want them both there, for heaven's sake don't invite one of them. It's not a breach of etiquette to not invite someone based on group dynamics. My question to the OP would be what would she have done if she thought the friend was available? Fri Apr 07 17:36:47 -0700 2006 1701691 0 mw 4 1701731 You are right, I didn't mention the "friends" comment in the original posting...I figured the original post was near the end of its life so in my second post I just wanted to thank everyone who had posted and jokingly added the side comment about the dynamics of putting friends together as well ~ it seems most issues are multi-dimensional. I didn't put that in the original post because I was just trying to get opinions on the broad subject. My general rule is to invite a person and give them the option of saying "no" but I just wasn't sure of the proper etiquette and I was curious to hear what others had to say on the subject. Sat Apr 08 08:54:12 -0700 2006 1701698 0 IslandGirl