303068 Mon Apr 03 21:26:44 -0700 2006 37 29 Not About Food 0 1701447 Anyone read the time article on Mario Batali? A very interesting piece on his success. Being a woman he does come off as an ass however with his remarks when he has been drinking. Mon Apr 03 21:26:44 -0700 2006 0 jsl 1 1701448 My son works at a local Irish pub here in Naples and met Emeril Lagasse when he was here as a celebrity chef for a Wine Auction-fundraiser last month and he said Emeril was a 100% nice guy, came in two nights in a row to have a drink to unwind and my son served him both times; everyone who worked with him for the event said he was great. My son had heard that Batali was the celebrity chef last year and did make an ass of himself when things didn't go just right, people didn't do what he wanted quickly enough, you get my drift. No law against being temperamental, I suppose but the way he treated the help was not admired. Mon Apr 03 21:41:21 -0700 2006 1701447 0 Val 2 1701452 I used to go to Po a lot back in the day. It was a happy place, and the staff used to hang together and party wildly after closing. (Or so I heard, I never joined them.) One of the staff went on to become the owner of several critically acclaimed restaurants. Though Batali was building Babbo at the time and wasn't always at Po, I dont think the atmosphere would have been nearly as happy had Batali not been the genial guy he seemed to be when I saw him...wearing shorts and sneakers usually. By the way you say, "Being a woman he does come off as an ass however" If Batali is a woman, I would be very much surprised. Mon Apr 03 22:18:01 -0700 2006 1701448 0 Brian S 3 1701455 I obviously didn't word my sentence right. What I meant was...I am a woman and am repulsed by the way he treats women when he is in the party mood. Having said that... he is certainly one of the most knowlegeable celebrity chefs around and I have been watching his shows on FN since inception. Mon Apr 03 22:48:01 -0700 2006 1701452 0 jsl 4 1701457 That's interesting. How many parties have you been to where Batali was present? Mon Apr 03 23:25:46 -0700 2006 1701455 0 Jim H. 5 1701458 Read the acticle on Time.com if you don't receive the magazine. Mon Apr 03 23:30:50 -0700 2006 1701457 0 jsl 6 1701487 JSL, I now take that Time, Newsweek and The New York Times write with a grain of salt. They have all proven they have an agenda and have lost credibility. Frankly, I would discount what the writer tried to impune unless you were actually there. Tue Apr 04 15:47:21 -0700 2006 1701458 0 Leper 7 1701605 Actually on this issue the writer was quoting a book which seems to add a bit of credibility. Thu Apr 06 18:22:10 -0700 2006 1701487 0 Bean Counter 7 1701606 Actually on this issue the writer was quoting a book which seems to add a bit of credibility. Thu Apr 06 18:22:16 -0700 2006 1701487 0 Bean Counter 2 1701456 Val, Mario has built a virtual restaurant empire based upon his food knowledge, his accomplishments and his name. He has millions of dollars committed to a high stakes game with a fickle market. If I were under that level of pressure, I don't think people would describe me as "easy going and congenial". (I would be lucky not to be like Jack Nicholson in "The Shining"!) I once met Jeremiah Tower. Even if Mario became a complete ogre, he could never catch up with that guy. Mon Apr 03 23:23:29 -0700 2006 1701448 0 Leper 3 1701494 No problem, I'm pretty aware of how bright and successful he is and his recipes are awesome...I was only commenting on his personality and people skills, that's all. Tue Apr 04 18:41:21 -0700 2006 1701456 0 Val 3 1701495 So please explain the relentlessly nice Rick Bayless..... Tue Apr 04 22:30:37 -0700 2006 1701456 0 peg 4 1701497 Peg, That's easy, he's an anomoly. But you're right, I recently heard a radio interview with Rick. I think he embraces life and generally just has fun being Rick Bayless. Wed Apr 05 10:22:44 -0700 2006 1701495 0 Leper 5 1701539 Which is what it's all about, really. If you have to be a butthole to make the bigtime, only a butthole would even try. And the review I read recently of Mario's latest flight of fancy in New York, in which diners are NOT ALLOWED to order their food as they want it, just confirms to me that he's lost sight of what his work really is. And Rick never has, and I hope never will. Long may he wave! Thu Apr 06 00:58:10 -0700 2006 1701497 0 Will Owen 5 1701619 Maybe it has something to do with Rick originally being from Oklahoma. Or at least I would like to think so. Thu Apr 06 21:01:36 -0700 2006 1701497 0 Betty 1 1701462 I don't know if he is drinking on the telvision show but he comes of as an ass there too. He is among my least watched along with the the food ho Sandra, Paula fascinates me with the amount of sugar she manages to work into a dish, but making any of her recipes is not gong to happen, the whole concept of fast and easy is not happening around my house Tue Apr 04 01:22:27 -0700 2006 1701447 0 Candy 2 1701488 I do find him a bit overbearing, but I think he is a very good teacher and has a lot of great lessons. I love getting into a challenging and creative dish to cook as much as the next person, but now and then I need fast and easy. I've make some Paula recipes-apps,vegie dishes, potatoes and southern shrimp dishes-- and find them all very good. I think any cook or chef that can get people to stay home to cook and eat is a real plus in our fast food society. Tue Apr 04 16:02:19 -0700 2006 1701462 0 jackie 3 1701510 I don't subscribe to TIME, so I can't comment on the article. I don't see a problem with his show though, in fact I enjoy watching the show and him giving general catgegorization and lessons about how to prepare certain dishes. I like watching Paula's show too, but I gotta say, just watching the show gives me a virtual heart attack and sugar coma. Wed Apr 05 13:13:09 -0700 2006 1701488 0 zorgclyde 4 1701534 you can read it for free at time.com Wed Apr 05 22:23:39 -0700 2006 1701510 0 kim shook 5 1701749 not even for "free"... Sat Apr 08 13:28:45 -0700 2006 1701534 0 feelinpeckish 5 1701750 not even for "free"... Sat Apr 08 13:29:28 -0700 2006 1701534 0 feelinpeckish 5 1701752 not even for "free"... Sat Apr 08 13:34:46 -0700 2006 1701534 0 feelinpeckish 5 1701753 not even for "free"... Sat Apr 08 13:36:27 -0700 2006 1701534 0 feelinpeckish 3 1701744 Yesterday, I was on the edge of my seat, notebook and pen in hand, watching Mario prepare the very timely recipe for baby artichoke fritters. OK, he's properly stating the amounts for the ingredients the as he goes along. Then he reaches for a big bowl full of flour and says, "And add some flour", dumping it in. I immediately tore the page out of my notebook, ripped it up and turned off the TV. Thanks for nothing, Mario! If we were to have a thread about the worst Food Network offenses, not giving basic bone-head recipe instructions like amounts and oven temps would be number one! Thanks for allowing me to vent. Sat Apr 08 12:07:59 -0700 2006 1701488 0 Niki Rothman 4 1701747 Umm....The Food Network shows post their recipes on the website...and say so ad nauseum on the shows!!!....so if you really wanted the exact amount of flour, one minute or less on google and you would have it. I've never seen a TV food show that relied totally on someone sitting their with pen and pad to get the recipe. In the old days there was a PO Box to write to to get the recipe, these days there is the internet. Link: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_22258,00.html Sat Apr 08 13:20:56 -0700 2006 1701744 0 susancinsf 5 1701754 Thanks so much for posting that recipe. This is the first time I've been able to get a recipe from Food Network. For some reason, the recipes will not come up on my computer screen. And I've had several computer savvy people try to do it here too and it's just not happening. I can do the search, but then I get the title of the recipe but no recipe. But in any case, just for the sake of, not argument, but perhaps reality: there are a lot of people out there who might be interested in copying the recipes while watching a cooking show who do not have computers, such as many of my elderly friends and relatives. My mother watches several hours a day, and she's a great cook too - it's her hobby. No computer. Is there really some problem for Mario to have a monitor in front of him with the actual recipe on it, so he could - um...read it? But I do recall quite clearly what I saw him doing yesterday and this recipe, which you so kindly provided to me, is significantly different. And that, also, is problematic in terms of Mario's integrity - if this is the only fried artichoke recipe from Mario on the website, then there is a serious disconnect - this is not what I saw him do and the amounts of the ingredients are radically different. The amount of flour I saw him use was a lot more than the 1 2/3 cups this recipe states. So, is it a completely different recipe, or was Mario just winging it on the show? The vast majority of Food Network chefs DO, in fact, state the amounts of the important ingredients as they go along. Sat Apr 08 13:47:25 -0700 2006 1701747 0 Niki Rothman 6 1701762 Of course, your original post made it sound as if you were unaware of the internet option...but be that as it may, and regardless of your personal computer problems, my point was really that the cooking shows and internet are INTENDED by the Food Network to be used together for those that feel an obligation to follow a recipe. That is why they tell you over and over and over again to click on the internet.... I can't say why you think the ingredients are different, either: It might well be that it is just too hard to get ingredients right when you try and both write and watch (which could be part of the reason that you are encouraged to get the recipe from the website, although I am sure all those ads on the internet site have something to do with it also), or it could be that there is more than one recipe on the site, or most likely of all, it could be that yes, Mario varies it when he does it on TV because YES, of COURSE he is winging it, it is a TV show!!!. The intent is to give you the sense of the recipe, which you then follow exactly by getting it off the internet if you are so inclined and are one of those that wants an exact recipe (I tend to use recipes as a starting point for my own experimentation, but I realize not everyone sees it the same way). Since their intent is for you to go to their website, what does Mario's integrity or lack thereof have to do with anything? If he really had integrity in the sense in which you are using the word, I am not sure he would be on TV at all! (because yes, there is always a possibility that no matter how specific he is, that someone else won't be able to duplicate his work, either because of lack of skill, weather conditions, lack of equipment, lack of ability to take perfect notes, just the phase of the moon, or whatever..... If anyone, (age has nothing to do with it, as lots of seniors I know are totally wired) can't afford a computer and wants to be sure he or she gets the exact recipe, she or he could go to the Library or local senior center or some other center and print it off the internet, (which is no more expensive and quicker than the old fashioned way of sending in a self-addressed stamped envelope). Sat Apr 08 16:27:56 -0700 2006 1701754 0 susancinsf 7 1701774 I don't want this to sound the wrong way or harsh, because I think you are really kind to have gone to the trouble to find that recipe for me. When you say "Of course he was winging it, it was a TV show!!!" that is no excuse. My point is simple: Is there something more important than giving the amounts of the ingredients in the recipe, when it really IS going to make a difference - as in for flour and yeast. Is that really too much to ask? It would seem to be the most basic possible level of integrity. These shows could not be further from improvisation. There are a zillion production assistants only slightly out of camera range and TV these days is so far from winging it as to not even be in the same universe. For example, have you ever noticed there are Foley artists providing the sizzle sound effects when any of the Food Network chefs toss food into an obviously not really hot pan? Come on Mario, do we have to beg you to tell us approximately how much flour you are using? We're only asking for maybe three words. If it was a loosey goosey recipe like dumping vegetables in a pot of soup I wouldn't have minded, but a specific amount of yeast and eggs/liquid were involved, so it could have made a big difference. But, oh, right - it doesn't matter. The truth is in the computer. Then why bother watching him at all? Sat Apr 08 18:58:36 -0700 2006 1701762 0 Niki Rothman 8 1701775 "My point is simple: Is there something more important than giving the amounts of the ingredients in the recipe" yes I think the flow of the show, the visual information, and the general food knowledge (like who uses what fats ad why) are all more important. For me, anyway. It's clear you have a bee in your bonnet about the measurements, and that's your opinion, no problem. You're a baker, right? That's cool. But there *is* another way of thinking about it. I've just started watching this show, and I like the flow. I don't watch much cooking on tv 'cause most of it doesn't speak to me. Something that pretends to be be exact like Test Kitchen totally irritates me, actually. This Mario show happens to be heavier on the elements that I like, and exact measurements are not high on that list. Plus I find it hilarious how much olive oil he douses everything with. It's positively unamerican! Sat Apr 08 20:28:13 -0700 2006 1701774 0 pitu 9 1701778 I find the flow of Mario's show enjoyable, both intelligently entertaining and truly informative. I'd love to sit in Mario's "kitchen" as one of his guests but would probably go mum so as not to have that double-barbed wit of his turned on me. I cannot enjoy ATK's Pompous Bowtie Guy, even when he's not mugging the camera. My daughter-units love him, though, so it's my oaken cross to sit through that 26-minute torture. Sat Apr 08 20:49:17 -0700 2006 1701775 0 The Ranger 9 1701794 You got me pegged! I love American Test Kitchen. And really, I enjoy Mario a lot, it's not that I have any problem with being free wheeling - but only if the amounts are irrelevant. Sun Apr 09 16:44:51 -0700 2006 1701775 0 Niki Rothman 8 1701779 as Pitu's post also says, perhaps better than I, I don't watch him to get the recipe. For that there is the internet. When I watch food shows, I watch to get a sense of the technique, because I am a visual person, and when someone says (for example), to 'smash a clove of garlic' it is much harder for me to know what is expected by reading than by watching!...In addition, I watch to get inspiration and ideas for my own cooking, in the same way that tonight I read recipes in three different cookbooks before starting my own short ribs recipe... btw, you are giving me too much credit when you say I was being kind when I looked up the recipe. I did it to illustrate how easy it was to do. Took me all of thirty seconds. The wonders of Google. Sat Apr 08 21:12:17 -0700 2006 1701774 0 susancinsf 6 1701765 > The amount of flour I saw him use was a lot more than > the 1 2/3 cups I saw this episode, too, and the reason you think there was more flour than 1 2/3 cups is the bowl that he dumped the flour from. If the recipe calls for 1 2/3 cups, it requires 1 2/3 cups. Sat Apr 08 17:35:48 -0700 2006 1701754 0 The Ranger 7 1701771 It looked like around 4 cups to me, maybe more. Sat Apr 08 18:28:52 -0700 2006 1701765 0 Niki Rothman 8 1701776 That amount of flour would have made the fritters too doughy and more loaf-like. I'm doing the breaded mozzarella slices for dinner tonight. Sat Apr 08 20:37:11 -0700 2006 1701771 0 The Ranger 6 1701784 If Mario upsets you, then you might be really upset if you try to write recipes from watching Italian nonnas or other home cooks who cook by feel. It doesn't feel like any of Mario's shows are very scripted, and he seems to do a lot of cooking by instinct, but that's a sign of someone who's been doing it for a long time. It seems to be a common criticism that cookbook recipes from chefs or restaurants often don't produce the same dishes at home since many times, quantifying instinctual measurements can be erroneous or those measurements don't work with the limitations of home appliances, or many other factors. Seems that testing recipes for the home kitchen gets neglected more often than not. My suggestion is to learn to use textures, sight, taste, and sounds as cues to help your sense of how much of any ingredients you should put into your dishes, and also how to adjust any of those to your preference. But I guess that's what instinct is. Sun Apr 09 04:06:10 -0700 2006 1701754 0 Eric Eto 6 1701827 Interesting. I've not followed a recipe in years as I cook by taste, feel and whatnot. I'm hosting an event in Hawaii for a wedding and have helpers and actually had to break down what I'm making into measurements, which was a really odd experience for me. Many, if not most, of the pros do it this way as well. Mon Apr 10 19:05:15 -0700 2006 1701754 0 oc climber 1 1701498 I am probably in the minority, but Mario just grosses me out. I do like Lidia, however. Wed Apr 05 11:05:41 -0700 2006 1701447 0 eLizard