302899 Tue Jan 31 20:46:06 -0800 2006 115 29 Not About Food 0 1699073 Hardly anyone gives the vegetarians,vegans,diabetic, or low fat posters a hard time about their meal/life styles. Why the hostility to low-carbers? I was just wondering because there was a post on Home Cooking and someone suggested that the cook just ignore the low carb life style and feed them something they would prefer not to eat and suggested that they go burn off the the carbs with exercise over the weekend. I am asking because excess carbs are something I try to avoid, most carbs leave me feeling bloated and gassy. It is unpleasant. We used to follow a low fat plan and continued to gain weight. Our MD suggested low carb and not only have we lost weight and are about where we should be but our blood pressure and cholesterol has been significantly lowered. Why would someone suggest feeding something to someone with no alternative choices that makes them feel unwell? Tue Jan 31 20:46:06 -0800 2006 0 Candy 1 1699074 I don't know the answer to your question. My husband and I both lost about 20 lbs on a low carb diet, though we've not been the best at keeping it off. However, it only seems sensible to me to stay away from foods that have little nutritional value - pasta, white bread, white rice, sugar, etc. Although we no longer stick to the regimen (will power issues), I do find myself much more aware of fruits and vegetables that have higher sugar/lower fiber contents, avoid fruit juices (eating the fruit instead) etc. I try to have pasta as an appetizer, rather than a main course, focus on whole grain breads, balance carbohydrates with fats in a meal. So, I say congratulations for sticking with it. Tue Jan 31 20:54:00 -0800 2006 1699073 0 MMRuth 2 1699076 Limit pasta? I.Live.For.Pasta. I'm a pasta whore. Lisa would be so sad w/out her pasta :( And being half Asian I couldn't give up the white rice (don't tell me brown rice 'cause it just doesn't taste like my mommy's cooking) . But everything you said makes perfect sense. I'm just weak willed. Tue Jan 31 21:15:40 -0800 2006 1699074 0 Ch Addict 3 1699080 Lol, I love that you said [insert food of your choice] whore. My pals and I say that all the time. I just thought it was a little demanding on a weekend trip to expect your dietary preferences to be primary in somebody's prep of a meal. But the OP said it was her bf, so then yes you don't want to sabotage the getting healthy. I know my mom is very good at her dietary restrictions, so I do always put a chocolate treat in front of her when I see her too rarely these days. I've usually been slightly chubby most of my life, but an illness has left me looking anorexic. I need to fix that and then go back to my usual healthy ways. Must go out and buy donuts and ice cream now. Tue Jan 31 21:52:07 -0800 2006 1699076 0 semmel 4 1699089 Gee, semmel. If you need to gain weight, come to the carbo love-in at the Il Borgo chowdown. If interested, hit my email up. Wed Feb 01 01:22:17 -0800 2006 1699080 0 CH Addict 1 1699075 3 thoughts come to mind (not the opinion of this poster - just observations): 1) many people who are vegetarians made the change for ethical reasons...so it's sorta like telling someone you don't accept their religion (for some people). 2) perception that low carb is a "fad diet" and therefore frivolous 3) un-natural attachment (or addiction) to simple carbs (I'll kill you if you tell me I can't eat white bread and wash it down with cola)! I think it's a question of education...if your friends know you eat in this way for health, that it is a permanent lifestyle change, that it makes you feel *GOOD*, any problem they have is their own insecurity over their own (unhealthy) lifestyle! Tue Jan 31 21:14:19 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Aimee 2 1699078 I think it's more of an over-exposure kind of thing. I know, as a carb-lover, (but not THE Carb Lover) I got a little tired of seeing it everywhere and I got a little tired of having to adjust my meals to other people. But, I don't begrudge you or other low-carbers... I'm glad it worked for you (and many others, including my mom.) It's just like the whole Rachael Ray thing... would people really hate her so much if she wasn't everywhere?! (I don't think so.) Tue Jan 31 21:31:44 -0800 2006 1699075 0 Katie Nell 3 1699081 I sort of agree (although I tried it once upon a time), and adding to the annoyance factor, many people who do it seem to think it's "Eat a burger without the bun and drink bacon milkshakes", which is not only sort of not what the whole diet is about, but somewhat disgusting (Although my inner self may disagree). Tue Jan 31 22:17:28 -0800 2006 1699078 0 Curtis 3 1699088 Ok, the original carb lover checking in here. I remember choosing that handle after I pondered what kind of food I could be known for loving...lots of things fell into carb-heavy foods and I was tired of the carb bashing by the media and dieters (in my daily life, not CH since I was new). I personally believe in a well-balanced diet so low-anything just doesn't sit right w/ me. For me, it implies deprivation and not listening to one's body. But for those sensitive to carbs, perhaps having even moderate simple carbs messes up the body's signals and rhythm. In the same vein, high carbs aren't great either, but I'm enjoying my youth while I can. This doesn't mean that I begrudge others of their own personal choices, but that I just don't relate and can't really contribute to low-carb lifestyle discussions. Now, if you want to discuss mac n' cheese, I'm there...(and will shortly reply to Dommy! on the HC board). Image: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/btdoan/macaroni.jpg Wed Feb 01 00:58:04 -0800 2006 1699078 0 Carb Lover 4 1699090 Definitely. I'd rather cut back on a little of everything and not eat right before bed each day than dramatically restrict any one food group from my diet (especially carbs!) I was miserable and had horrible breath the two weeks I tried to do low carb with my friend for moral support. I thought it'd be fun to see how much will power I had and be able to eat pork rinds and egg salad up the wazoo. Problem is, that's how a lot of fad dieters think. They go completely nuts with it. Candy's idea of eating pastas as appetizers and cutting out junk carbs is great, but the "20 carbs or less" that Atkins prescribes for the first few weeks is silly and not very healthy for your insides. Wed Feb 01 01:46:15 -0800 2006 1699088 0 nooodles 5 1699105 I just need to stop and say how much I love Carblover and Nooodles. Jus' sayin'. Is it time to talk ice cream yet? Wed Feb 01 10:17:27 -0800 2006 1699090 0 krissywats 6 1699128 Right back atcha, krissywats! I was reflecting on how I haven't made ice cream lately and started feeling sad...let's rev up those machines!! Wed Feb 01 12:59:21 -0800 2006 1699105 0 Carb Lover 7 1699132 (blushing) aw, shucks. I miss ice cream too. I found myself staring blankly at the Ben and Jerry's at the corner market the other day and knew I had to do something soon. Wed Feb 01 13:17:57 -0800 2006 1699128 0 nooodles 6 1699130 oh, yes, yes, yes--and with pictures! Wed Feb 01 13:15:48 -0800 2006 1699105 0 smokey 4 1699149 NO FAIR, NO FAIR...those pics are just indecent! My name is Aimee, and I am a carboholic... Wed Feb 01 16:39:23 -0800 2006 1699088 0 Aimee 5 1699153 :::::altogether now a la an addicts meeting::::: Hi, Aimee!! Wed Feb 01 16:54:48 -0800 2006 1699149 0 krissywats 3 1699091 I'll only answer for the Rachel Ray thing. It's not that she's so ubiquitous that annoying. It's that she's perky. Perky is the most annoying personality trait with which a person can be cursed. Just think-have you ever met a person who didn't hate cheerleaders? Wed Feb 01 02:37:21 -0800 2006 1699078 0 Bunny-Bunny 4 1699093 I agree about "perky". Being perky at 40 is not cute. Saying yumm-o is even worse! Wed Feb 01 04:29:30 -0800 2006 1699091 0 Fleur 1 1699079 Because its adherents are so "righteous" about it and it's really just another "diet of the month", that's why - add to that our general embarrassment over our weight and you're just asking for us to issue some snarky comment. When I was brought up, red meat would make you strong and healthy. Then it would kill you. Then it was good, then bad again, and now it's good again. (Yawn...) Tue Jan 31 21:34:37 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Wayne Keyser 2 1699148 Seconded! I don't have hostility towards the low carb people, I just wonder what's the next fad diet they'll buy into. Serial dieters get up my nose, even moreso when they use it as an attention seeking device. I don't hate them, I just want them to go away. Wed Feb 01 16:27:10 -0800 2006 1699079 0 Larry 1 1699082 It's interesting that you post this. Actually, the poster you were referring to mentioned that she thought vegetarians were silly, so I think that was an equal opportunity dietary restriction-bashing post. At least it's honest, though I was slightly offended, as I'm a vegetarian. And I was surprised at the suggestion to ignore the low-carb requirement. As I've written before, I have my reasons for my dietary preferences and I I respect other people and theirs. To give you a view from the other side of the spectrum, I've read a few (though very few) disparaging posts about vegetarianism since I've started reading the Home Cooking Board. But I do feel that since we've all come to together on that board to talk about great food, a common passion, it's only natural that we all post passionatly. And of course it's hard to catch another writer's 'voice' to know what they really mean. On a positive note: we often color our posts with talk of nationality, religion and ethnicity, but there is NEVER any judging or negativity around our backgrounds. I think that's pretty great. Great chow comes from all places and people. Tue Jan 31 22:18:38 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Dev 2 1699084 Jeez Louise I am here! My doc has me on a VERY low sodium diet, but I'm not gonna cough up a cow if a host serves yummy french fries. It was just one weekend for crying out loud! You eat what you feel comfortable with and keep to your regimen on Monday, Tuesday, etc. I have limited cooking skills, so unless it is an allergy, I really wouldn't appreciate someone telling me they "can't" have x for one effing meal. I hate basil, should my host not serve spaghetti in pesto? I'm fine with that, would just ask give me some plain ghetti with butter. I'm filled and enjoying the company. I never accommodate my exbf vegetarian when he urges me to get the chicken, so he can have a bite. Tue Jan 31 23:46:21 -0800 2006 1699082 0 semmel 1 1699083 I'm glad it's worked for you. I've talked to many people that adhere to the low-carb thing and lose weight but then as soon as they go back to eating what they actually want (which will almost inevitably happen when you deprive yourself of what you actually crave) they gain weight. And for those of us that have been saying 'MODERATION - no one natural food is BAD' for years and years (even if WE struggle with it) the strict and irritating 'oh i cannot eat bread' group that then eats the bread and gains the weight back becomes tiresome. A lot of 'low carbers' become very hoity-toity about their low carb choices, as if there is no other way to eat and the rest of us are unwashed masses. I think if a vegetarian did this, they would be met with similar hostility - but i haven't really seen that much. It sounds as if you've made healthy changes for yourself that involve whole foods not, as one woman i know of, eating six eggs a day (with bacon!) losing 60lbs but now taking Lipitor for her cholesterol. Ya don't really hear about such retarded things from vegetarians. I wouldn't take it personally. Tue Jan 31 23:41:34 -0800 2006 1699073 0 krissywats 1 1699086 In addition to what's been said below regarding the 6 eggs a day versions, I think it's because it's become so out of hand. I've had someone at my job ask me if we made any low carb wines. I mean, I know some exist but please! It's become the Paris Hilton of diets. Everyone is so sick of hearing about it but then everyone keeps talking about it. Wed Feb 01 00:06:40 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Morgan 1 1699087 Must be a regional thing, 'cause we've found being accommodated in restaurants to be the easiest part of doing the South Beach thing here in SoCal. The hardest part is trying to think of mac'n'cheese or a baked potato as The Enemy...no, actually it was harder convincing my actually very smart brother-in-law that a sweet potato has a lower glycemic index than a russet! Wed Feb 01 00:36:31 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Will Owen 1 1699092 The reason IMHO is ignorance. Why are you being intimidated when your body and common sense are right? Lower carb is for everyone. Sugar is not a food. I understand your situation, and I have found that low carb eating (around 100 grams/day)is the best way to stay lean and healthy. Vegetarians and Vegans who eat "organic" potato chips, and desserts made with "organic" sugar are still eating junk food. I have found that saving sweets for special occasions works. Wed Feb 01 04:24:20 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Fleur 2 1699106 I love my geek husband. When I told him about this post he said: "sugar does not occur randomly in the crust of the earth - living things produce it to store energy, and consume it when they need energy - the ONLY thing sugar is, is food" Doesn't mean YOu have to eat it. More for me. Wed Feb 01 10:20:31 -0800 2006 1699092 0 krissywats 3 1699110 :-) Don't you just loving geek husbands? They're the best! Wed Feb 01 11:06:07 -0800 2006 1699106 0 Dev 2 1699118 "Lower carb is for everyone. Sugar is not a food" To make those (erroneous) comments, and then call other people ignorant...I think this is EXACTLY why people have a knee-jerk anti-low-carb reaction. Many low carb "converts" seem to preach their new findings with almost religious zeal, and with disrespect for others of differing opinions. I'll be happy to show total respect for someone who eats low carb (i may not change my menu to suit them, however...they can just not eat the parts they don't care for) , just as I would vegans or whatever else. When they start spewing bad science, or implying that I am ignorant for the way I eat...then I'm going to be less tolerant. Wed Feb 01 12:20:29 -0800 2006 1699092 0 danna 2 1699150 Yes: Ignorance of common principles of agreeable behavior that is, but on the part of the dieters, as demonstrated by the post above. To be polite means not pushing your own agenda on other people, especially when you are sharing a meal. Please don't try to "teach" them when they are not in a classroom and you are not the teacher. Then they won't be hostile; they'll be friendly and nice. Wed Feb 01 16:51:33 -0800 2006 1699092 0 Sir Gawain 1 1699094 Well, I think at Chowhound you will encounter a skeptical attitude towards the American habit (long before low carb) of dividing the food world into Good Foods and Bad Foods (in the moral sense of the term). A number of people adhering to special diets tend to fall into that trap. The fact of the matter is that -- other than folks with medical needs like diabetes and celiac disease, who do have a genuine issue with certain (not all) carbohydrates -- special diets (other than for allergy) work mainly because food restriction (that is, eliminating categories of foods, especially foord you tend to overeat) is simply a short-cut around the harder (but actually more fulfilling) work of (1) knowing what you eat (not just content but amount) -- that's what food diaries do, (2) eating in moderation (portion control), and (3) regular exercise (4-5 days a week, 30-90 minutes). My brother and I each lost 160 pounds over 18 months (at different times) without restricting carbohydrates following the above. At my brother's place of work, all the folks on low carb diets abandoned them when they saw how he was able to eat anything he wanted (just less of it). Which makes sense, if you think about it, because human beings have for millennia eaten a carbohydrate-rich diet (and far from always complex-carbohydrate rich diet). The problem with carbohydrates in the US in the past generation has another factor that people often overlook: the low-fat fad. Lots of foods and food habits developed to eat lots of simple carbs in higher quantity and with less fat to moderate how the body digested them. Which is a warning that special diets not required by medical necessity can be a cure worse than the disease. All that being said, I am more than happy to accommodate low-carb eaters so long as they avoid moralism about the foods themselves. Wed Feb 01 05:24:45 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Karl S 2 1699100 Karl, Your weight loss accomplishment (and your brother's) is amazing! Congrats Wed Feb 01 09:16:21 -0800 2006 1699094 0 Dev 1 1699095 i haven't read all the responses so sorry if this has been said before. i don't think anyone begrudges your decision to eat lower carb. i think there's just a lot of fatigue around here with the sudden onslaught of people out there who insist that they can't touch any form of carbohydrate without breaking out in hives. certainly there are people who want to eat low-carb (or vegetarian, or whatever) for legitimate reasons. i'm not talking about health restrictions here. and there are also people who have turned their diets into attention-seeking behavior. i think most of us here believe in balance, and in eating what works for you. it's great that your low-carb lifestyle has been good for you. but nothing should be taken too seriously. and i repeat, i'm not talking about serious health restrictions here. Wed Feb 01 07:10:58 -0800 2006 1699073 0 hobokeg 1 1699098 It seems that more and more discussions on this board (and in the country for that matter) are turning into "all about me" rants. "Why can't I eat smelly foods on the plane?" "Why did those stupid people give me a gift certificate to Red Lobster when they know I only eat at Daniel Boloud's?" "Why didn't the restaurant kick out the people with the whiny kid at the table next to me?" "Why can't I charge a $.75 cup of coffee." "Why doesn't the world revolve around MEEEEEE!?" In my view this problem reflects the larger trend away from basic courtesy for others that we see everywhere. This includes what should be considered hospitality from the host's standpoint and the corresponding courtesy expected from a guest. Hosts will and should try to accommodate guests up to a point, but not to where they have to change everything they plan to serve at a party or dinner to accommodate one person's lifestyle choice or religious preference (sometimes people seem to get those confused). For the guest's part, it is their duty to be gracious, no matter what they are served. If they don't like or want something, they don't have to eat it! What a concept. But what really chews my shorts is when I announce a party or a dinner and I get the inevitable response from that person on the [name your] diet, basically saying, "Well I'll come, but only if you bend over backwards to accommodate ME ME ME and don't serve anything that's not on my diet. Otherwise, I'm not coming." It just drives me nuts! I can't imagine saying that to someone who invites me to their house. People really need to get a better perspective on what it takes to live in a world with other people. Otherwise they should stay home. End of rant. Wed Feb 01 09:07:45 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Ellen 2 1699103 Amen!! Wed Feb 01 09:56:46 -0800 2006 1699098 0 macca 3 1699134 I hope you respond with, "Oh, I'm so sorry that you can't make it." Wed Feb 01 13:49:58 -0800 2006 1699103 0 LizK 2 1699154 Yes! Yes! Yes to all that!!!!!!!! What kills me is that CH seems to be full of people who seemingly ONLY socialize with people who are abysmal hosts, clueless guests, miserly gifters, clueless parents, ungrateful siblings, poor dressers, picky eaters, abysmal cooks, appalling conversationalists and lovers of all that is cheap and tacky - in a word, the dregs of society. It does make one wonder why all the nice people out there - surely they exist - won't be friends with these put-upon, perpetual victims who are so perfect at everything they do. Thank god I have retained the ability to choose my friends... Wed Feb 01 17:02:39 -0800 2006 1699098 0 Sir Gawain 3 1699163 Just makes you want to go over to Rachel's house, doesn't it? Wed Feb 01 22:43:29 -0800 2006 1699154 0 Spudlover 3 1699171 hear hear to both posts- I have wondered about that as well- pile on is what it seems to be about Thu Feb 02 09:33:17 -0800 2006 1699154 0 cocoagirl 2 1699234 You are my hero! "These people" cannot and I mean cannot look beyond their own existence. They see themselves as the lead in their own movie and expect everyone else to kowtow to their "world". Fri Feb 03 10:43:15 -0800 2006 1699098 0 Scagnetti 1 1699099 Moderation! A lof of people like to throw that around. It sounds reasonable enough. But what does that mean? Surely not taking every food catagory in equal measure? Surely not eating according to that food pyramid the gov put in the 80s. The food pyramid overloaded with, you guess it, carbs! And demonized fat. Sugary processed foods were labeled "Diet". And you wonder how we got real fat (without eating fat!) in the 80s and 90s. So the gov has put out a new one last year. Anybody taking that bait? Let them eat bread! Wed Feb 01 09:16:04 -0800 2006 1699073 0 mod'ern 1 1699101 Candy--I've actually encountered similar attitudes when I posted looking for suggestions for dairy/meat/soy free meals. (Look at the link below for just such an example.) So I don't think the attitude you describe is limited to a low carb diet. I think the causes of frustration about food limitations are many. 1. As others have noted, a presumed moral superiority (on the part of some) either to certain foods or certains ways of eating. 2. Generalization of the frustration felt at others one has known who profess a 'low fat' or 'low carb' or 'vegetarian' or other restricted diet, but who take a lot of, umm, shall we call them breaks? from such a lifestyle. 3. The realization that many who claim limitations don't actually have them (they're not actually allergic to something, they just don't like it). It's the boy who cried wolf problem--once enough people (never mind that it's not the same person over and over again) say they're allergic to something when they're not, you stop believing anybody is allergic to anything. I just wish that folks would live and let live. If it works for you, great. Don't try to force your choices on me and I won't try to force my choices on you. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/278217#1472074 Wed Feb 01 09:26:27 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Smokey 1 1699102 I don't care what other people eat, but it annoys me when I have to hear the evangelizing of a low carb (or any other kind of) fanatic. As long as you aren't telling other people what to do, then I wouldn't worry about the naysayers. But if you feel tempted to spread the word, then I fear that you may be reaping what you sow. Wed Feb 01 09:30:31 -0800 2006 1699073 0 butterfly 1 1699104 >>Hardly anyone gives the vegetarians,vegans,diabetic, or low fat posters a hard time about their meal/life styles.>> I would beg to differ, at least in the case of vegetarians and vegans. Wed Feb 01 10:16:48 -0800 2006 1699073 0 bibi rose 1 1699107 I followed a High Carb, low fat diet of my own and lost a tremendous amount of weight, go figure. I think the lo carb fad is a yuppie creation that is now in its death throws. Wed Feb 01 10:28:36 -0800 2006 1699073 0 malibumike 1 1699108 My friend's doctor suggested a low carb diet to her, but in the context of a hurried OBGYN appointment a lot of the subtleties are lost - as in, he gave her a list of foods to avoid including "fruit". Well, a lot of people will react badly to the suggestion that the entire fruit category is unhealthy and off-limits (especially for a pregnant woman, this was not meant to be a Phase 1 drastic Atkins diet but a way to keep her weight gain within reason and avoid diabetes). By the time I try to tell her that there is a difference between say pineapple juice and blueberries, it's too late because she's already decided the concept is ridiculous. And I can't really blame her because the doctor is not giving her a very full picture. Wed Feb 01 10:46:00 -0800 2006 1699073 0 julesrules 1 1699109 I am the original poster on home cooking. Interesting that this caused such a reaction. I don't personally agree with Atkins. I think there are better ways to do it. However, it works for my bf so I support him. As for the weekend, he was willing to cook something seperate for himself if we made pasta or something. I think what it comes down to for me is just to be aware of what others are doing and to be respectful. And again, thanks to the suggestions I got. Wed Feb 01 11:04:50 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Ruthie 2 1699111 >I think what it comes down to for me is just to be aware of what others are doing and to be respectful.< I couldn't agree more. When I invite people to my home for a meal (or any occasion), I want them to be comfortable and enjoy themselves. If this means working within the guidelines of their dietary needs, I don't mind. Nobody says, 'Fine, I'll come over, but not if you're going to cook those nasty noodles of yours.' But I do understand that a person who is on a low-carb diet, or GERD diet or pregnancy diet may want/need to keep up that lifestyle on the evening in my home. If it's going to present a challenge, I can always call them for ideas. There are so many amazing foods and cuisines -- there's always something that works. Now, if you had posted that you were trying to make this ski night dinner for a low carb dieter who would only eat oysters and caviar, and you were on a budget, those would have been tough guidelines to work with. But the parameters you mentioned weren't impossible, just challenging. And it's nice of you to be supportive of your BF. Enjoy the chili (I think that's what you're going with) and definitely enjoy the skiing! We leave for Jackson Hole in a week! Wed Feb 01 11:15:22 -0800 2006 1699109 0 Dev 3 1699114 I'm with you. I have a friend that can't eat yeast OR dairy - oy, talk about a cooking nightmare...and I do thanksgiving with her! However, we always talk beforehand and she never DEMANDS - I always ASK because I want to be a good and gracious host - and she contributes (an amazing quinoa salad with roasted red pepper soup ladled over it one year). I used to be a vegetarian (but never in a million years expected those around me to be) and always knew there would be something I could eat. I'm much more obnoxious about eating organic and I feel a million times better now that I don't eat chemical laden food. (which is something I often wonder about low-carb people - do they feel better because they aren't eating carbs or because they aren't eating processed carbs with high-fructose corn syrup and a gazillion other chemicals. Also, contrary to what another poster said - organic chips DO feel differently than their non-organic counterpart. I can tell a huge difference if I happen to indulge in a Dorito...the MSG weighs me down and I feel bloated...but an organic or natural chip? Doesn't happen) Wed Feb 01 11:43:06 -0800 2006 1699111 0 Krissywats 1 1699112 I think low carb is not normal. Bottom line for weight loss is calories in/calories out. And any diet that tells you to eat all the bacon and eggs you want but an apple is bad just isn't right. Go to an eating disorder unit at a hospital (where I've spent some time), and they do say things like "normal" and "not normal" with respect to food (and I'm not only talking about weird food rituals). And demonizing an entire food group is not normal. If you eat more calories than you burn be it from gummy bears or cheese, you'll gain weight. Wed Feb 01 11:34:14 -0800 2006 1699073 0 xoxo 2 1699117 >>If you eat more calories than you burn be it from gummy bears or cheese, you'll gain weight.>> I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. A lot of things like hormones, metabolism and so forth affect your ability to lose weight and one can lose or gain weight in apparent contradiction to calories in/out at least as far as the layman can estimate them. I have lost weight with Weight Watchers, and so have some of my friends. WW allows you *any* kind of food up to your point allowance. I've found, however, that the only way to lose steadily is indeed to cut down on simple carbohydrates as well as fat. Those are the only foods I can cut out and lose steadily and not have my body go into starvation mode. So, yeah, in order to lose weight you eat fewer calories than you are burning but in my experience you can't do that effectively over a long period unless you pay attention to the balance of nutrition you are getting. That said, I don't think drastic low-carb is good but something like South Beach which limits your carbohydrate intake seems to work for a lot of people. Past the induction phase, though, most people seem to be able to do SB without driving everyone around them crazy. Wed Feb 01 12:12:25 -0800 2006 1699112 0 bibi rose 3 1699119 It's really not an oversimplification. If metabolic or homonal issues effect your ability to burn calories it still holds true that the amount you consume must not be greater than the amount you burn in order to lose weight. You may not be getting great nutrition from 2000 calories of gummy bears. But if you're burning more that that, you'll see the weight come off. Weight Watchers helps with the caloric intake through their portion control via the points system while giving you balanced nutrition through a variety of foods. But if you wanted to eat point allotment in chocolate cake every day and nothing more (although I'd be starving in about half an hour after I ate), then it holds true that you should lose weight. Wed Feb 01 12:23:55 -0800 2006 1699117 0 xoxo 4 1699123 Right - 3500 calories burned means one pound,no matter who you are. How difficult it is to burn 3500 calories and how much you burn standing still DOES depend on who you are - this is why some people have to limit more than others to lose weight. Frustrating (for me!) but true. My husband just cuts out the second cheeseburger and he loses weight. Wed Feb 01 12:38:02 -0800 2006 1699119 0 krissywats 5 1699126 whew. thanks. it was getting a little lonely here, all by myself! I also find it interesting that most no/low carbers have no qualms about drinking (and I mean booze other than the clear stuff). Talk about carb laden empty calories. Wed Feb 01 12:41:36 -0800 2006 1699123 0 xoxo 6 1699135 If you are talking about beer, most low carb folks won't drink it. Rum, whisky, vodka, etc have little or no carbs. They are discouraged during the primary phase of the diet because the effects of the alcohol are likely to cause hunger and reduce one's willpower. Why do feel it necessary to dump on people who are successfully dieting using a reasonably safe and healthy diet tool? Wed Feb 01 13:52:18 -0800 2006 1699126 0 Two Forks 7 1699138 I'm not dumping. Just trying to explain why it might not make sense to some people (namely, me) as the original poster asked. Wed Feb 01 14:23:54 -0800 2006 1699135 0 xoxo 4 1699144 My point is that when people say "just eat less and burn more calories" it is often no help at all. Different people require different strategies to achieve this effect in the long term. Wed Feb 01 15:04:12 -0800 2006 1699119 0 bibi rose 5 1699145 At the risk of sounding antogonistic, which I assure I'm not, I ask the following: Isn't watching your intake and exersizing really the only surefire way to lose weight and maintain weight loss? I really hope you don't think that I'm trying to bait you. I just thought that was what it all boiled down to essentially. I appreciate your feedback. Wed Feb 01 15:56:15 -0800 2006 1699144 0 xoxo 6 1699155 >>At the risk of sounding antogonistic, which I assure I'm not, I ask the following: Isn't watching your intake and exersizing really the only surefire way to lose weight and maintain weight loss?.>> Sure. But "watching your intake" means many things to many people. On the one hand, you cannot lose weight unless you are running a calorie deficit. (People who think they are just cutting out food groups and losing weight are probably cutting down their calories without realizing it.) On the other hand, a calorie deficit alone will not give you a *healthy, sustainable* weight loss if you are not getting enough protien and other nutrients. Whenever you have a discussion of diets, you get people who say stuff like, "Diet, schmiet! Just eat less and move more." Or people who tell you to eat exactly what you are eating only cut all your portions in half. If sheer calorie restriction worked, there wouldn't be so many fat people who earnestly want to get thin. It takes a lot of thought and planning into exactly what your body needs. You will have an easier time losing weight if you cut in some places rather than others. (And I think where you need to cut varies by person too. Some people really feel they don't tolerate certain foods very well, and I suspect they are not wrong.) Wed Feb 01 17:05:52 -0800 2006 1699145 0 bibi rose 6 1699185 I think you are missing a real significant point. A lot of people who are on diets for health reasons are doing it to improve their health in terms of the standard blood tests (as well as losing weight). If you are one of those lucky few who have good blood work then all the more power to the way you approach maintaining your weight. If not, I suggest doing some research on the subject rather than reading my opinion or other people's opinions on the subject. I also suggest going to a health fair, they have loads of information, lots of experts and they are fun too. Thu Feb 02 14:08:15 -0800 2006 1699145 0 Tracy L. 4 1699159 Actually, it is an oversimplication. Your assumption is that whatever you eat, your body will digest and process completely and equally no matter what. It isn't true. And there's science to back this up. Wed Feb 01 17:50:54 -0800 2006 1699119 0 mod'ern 2 1699121 Right. Sugar, white bread, high fructose corn syrup are normal. Wed Feb 01 12:28:32 -0800 2006 1699112 0 Two Forks 3 1699122 I said low/no carb isn't normal. I didn't say that hypersweetened processed chemical food was normal either. But yes, I think sugar is normal. I think white bread is perfectly normal, too. Not wonderbread. That's a lab experiment gone bad. Wed Feb 01 12:35:05 -0800 2006 1699121 0 xoxo 4 1699124 p.s. i think potatoes are normal, too. (and rice and pasta, as well, for that matter) Wed Feb 01 12:38:31 -0800 2006 1699122 0 xoxo 3 1699125 Oh please please don't lump white bread and sugar in with high fructose corn syrup.....that's just unfair. Sugar (in all of it's beautiful forms) and bread have been consumed since the dawn of man. High Fructose Corn Syrup was constructed in a lab sometime in the middle of the last century. Wed Feb 01 12:40:11 -0800 2006 1699121 0 krissywats 4 1699127 Again, I thank you. Also, isn't milk a no-no for the no/low carb set? But I wouldn't lump lactose in with high fructose crap syrup. Wed Feb 01 12:42:54 -0800 2006 1699125 0 xoxo 5 1699133 only in the brief induction period, i.e. the first two weeks in South Beach. After that is allowed. Wed Feb 01 13:49:44 -0800 2006 1699127 0 Two Forks 6 1699141 what's the purpose of the induction period? if it's a healthy diet, why does it need an induction period? if something's not good for the first 2 weeks of the diet, why is it good after? Wed Feb 01 14:51:00 -0800 2006 1699133 0 ivie 7 1699169 because the diet authors want you to loose a lot of water weight in the first 2 weeks so you get excited about the diet and tell others to buy their book? just a guess ;-) Thu Feb 02 09:10:04 -0800 2006 1699141 0 danna 7 1699177 Why? It is all about how your body handles insulin. It is indisputable that carb-laden meals cause hunger spikes as the carbs are used up and the body's glucose level drops. Carbohydrates cause insulin levels to rise and tells the body to store fat. For the first two weeks, you restrict carbs, basically changing the way your body's blood sugar levels are processed (I'm not a scientist--you'll have to research this yourself). On SB at least, after two weeks you are allowed "healthy" carbs, mainly ones with accompanying high fiber content. I have seen friends on this diet become drastically healthier, and get off their meds. They still eat a satisfying range of foods and are truly happy, whereas some of their conditions (high cholesterol, pre-diabetes, digestive system issues) which had them miserable are now compeltely gone. I read the book several years ago, so I am a little rusty, but the science makes sense, and there is quite a bit of literature validating it. Perhaps the linked article may help. Link: http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/riskfactors/a/lofatlocarb.htm Thu Feb 02 12:51:26 -0800 2006 1699141 0 Two Forks 8 1699183 Excellent post. Well written- I did not respond to the post as I did not want to sound like an evangilist!! Well put and spot on! Thu Feb 02 13:40:59 -0800 2006 1699177 0 macca 7 1699182 Induction phases are not new or a gimmick. A goal of a lot of weight loss programs for obese people is to lose 5-10% of of their weight as early in the diet as is healthy. According to my doctor and other medical experts it really helps for people who have high blood pressure and/or are borderline diabetics to lose the 5% early. Even Weight Watchers (they don't have an induction phase) will give an intial goal of losing 5% of body weight for their members. IMHO there is also a psychological factor. Losing several pounds at the outstart and making changes that make you really think about what you are eating can be a real inspiration for some people. Keep in mind if the diet is medically recommended, then we're not talking about people needing to lose 10lbs, we're talking about people who need to lose 30 or more lbs. Thu Feb 02 13:36:07 -0800 2006 1699141 0 Tracy L. 8 1699251 I work part time for WW, and 10% is the first target goal, but we always say, however long it takes you, is fine. Meaning, no rush to lose that first 10%. Some members lose it quickly, some members don't. 10% helps reduce the risk of certain cancers, lowers high blood pressure, and other health benefits. It's also a less intimidating goal than a much bigger, long term one. Fri Feb 03 14:59:33 -0800 2006 1699182 0 Renee 9 1699255 That's great that you work for WW. It must be very fulfilling. I just went back to WW Online at the beginning of the year, after living with the "Newlywed Nine" for the last year. I'm already down 7 pounds, with 3 more to go. It's the program that works best for me. Fri Feb 03 16:09:07 -0800 2006 1699251 0 Dev 10 1699275 It's extremely fulfilling, but I also work (full time+) in sales for a catering company that does very large events year-round. So my whole day is spent thinking about food. That's why I loved discovering Chowhound--I can legitimately read it all day in the name of "research." Sat Feb 04 12:23:46 -0800 2006 1699255 0 Renee 2 1699137 You are so right xoxo! Hello? Pasta, rice, white bread, etc. ARE normal for a LARGE section of the world. (And to the person calling carb eaters ignorant, you just wiped out a big section of the globe.) When I lived in Italy I never saw an obese person, rarely if ever a fat one. Never been to Asia but I've never seen an obese Asian in the Bay Area. The U.S. is where I see the highest percentage of fat people. I don't think it is due to sugar or pasta or what have you. It's due to processed foods. The French are happily eating their baguettes, the Italians their pasta, and the Chinese their rice. It's all good. With that said, do Atkins if it makes you happy, more power to you and I won't comment on your choice. But don't call me ignorant because I eat pasta. I never had hostilty towards low carb eaters but I'm starting to with this thread... Signed, Pasta Whore Wed Feb 01 14:09:41 -0800 2006 1699112 0 CH Addict 3 1699156 I'd add that in the US, the biggest problems are: - processed food laden with chemicals and high fructose corn syrup - no physical activity, driving EVERYWHERE - enormous portions. In the US, many people who follow a diet tend to believe they can eat unlimited quantities of their "allowed" foods, be they fat-free baked goods or artificially sweetened stuff. The consumption of food has evolved in ways which have nothing to do with the body's real needs; many people eat mostly to satify (chemically-induced) cravings & emotional needs. The "carbs" aren't at fault. It really is all about calories in, calories spent. Wed Feb 01 17:18:33 -0800 2006 1699137 0 Sir Gawain 2 1699231 You are 100% right on. If you eat more calories than you burn you are going to gain weight, it doesnt matter if its fat, protien, or carbs. Protien and Carbs have 4 calories per gram, fat on the other hand has 9 calories per gram, 125% more calories, it makes more sense to cut fat than carbs. Your body does not have to expend as much energy to store the fat you eat as fat, it's already fat, but it does have to expend energy to convert carbs to fat. The Atkins craze was an early yuppie trend in the early 70's and failed then just as this one will. Almost any diet you go on will work for a while but Atkins and other low carb diets have the highest failure rate because they are just not natural or sustainabe. Fri Feb 03 10:35:01 -0800 2006 1699112 0 malibumike 3 1699261 In your dreams. Low carb will not go away, you just reinforced what the poster was asking about. Fri Feb 03 20:01:36 -0800 2006 1699231 0 MZG 4 1699264 Please, can't we all just get along? Please, for the sake of the children! I'm feeling like a kid in between parents during a bitter divorce :( Someone's low carb diet isn't hurting the non-low carb dieters so why tell them it's a fad or silly? Someone else's love of carbs is making them happy, not hurting you, so why call them ignorant? Everyone, just stop criticizing food choices you don't agree with. DISCLAIMER (before everyone jumps the gun): yes, a loved one's health, diabetes, etc. (esp. if they are being naughty w/ their prescribed diets) is cause for concern and you can pipe up. And if I invite someone w/ special dietary needs to my home, I will try to accomodate them. If I invited them into my home, it means I like them! So naturally I'll work w/ them. That is all! Love you, mean it! You can now aim all the hostility my way: I'm a wimp when it comes to offal and won't even try it. Discuss... Fri Feb 03 22:35:29 -0800 2006 1699261 0 Ch Addict 5 1699270 We have pruned back some messages that were off topic and degenerating into back and forth chit chat out of this discussion. It seems as though this particular subject has run its course and we ask that everyone please go back to finding great chow and repoting those finds on their local or regional message boards. Thanks for everyone's cooperation. Sat Feb 04 08:34:36 -0800 2006 1699264 2 The Chowhound Team 1 1699115 Becuase they are not your personal chef. Nobody likes a picky guest. Wed Feb 01 11:49:10 -0800 2006 1699073 0 ODB 2 1699129 Agree. I'm not inclined to answer posts with specific diet restrictions. (I know I could not marry a vegan or vegetarian--too limiting culinarily!) P.S. I too watch carbs. Wed Feb 01 13:15:28 -0800 2006 1699115 0 Funwithfood 1 1699131 Candy- As you can see- lots of hostility has come out. I think the posters who suggest a balanced diet make sense. And I do not really know a lot about Atkins, so I will not slam it, but if it does cut out fruit and breads and pasta, etc it would seem to be a very hard diet to follow- never mind talking about the fat content. I do know about the South Beach Diet. I guess it is classified as low carb- but I think it is a good diet for some. I lost more than 50 pounds on the diet. Easily, and I felt great. My doctor suggested this diet, as my sugar levels were creeping up, there is heart disease in my family, and I wanted to lose weight. The South Beach diet seemed to fit the bill. I never really felt deprived- ate fruit, made choices on fruit juices and vegatables. I lost weight, was able to avoid using insulin, my chol. levels reduced and I felt good. REally did not have problems eating out, or cooking for others. At home, I would eat sweet potatoes while the family had mashed. Just made choices that were good for me. But for some reason, people have really strong opinions on this. Sometimes the people who are the most vocal really do not know what the diet entails ( which is why I cannot really comment on the Atkins diet- I only know a bit about it). I have seen posters rail against the South Beach diet- and by reading their posts, it is apparent they have no idea what they are talking about!! do what works for you, and let the comments roll off you back. Not worth responding to, IMHO. Wed Feb 01 13:16:21 -0800 2006 1699073 0 macca 2 1699136 Bravo, macca. Well put and sensible. I wish others shared your lucidity. Wed Feb 01 13:54:55 -0800 2006 1699131 0 Two Forks 2 1699139 Great post! I think the 'hostility' came out in this post (I personally never felt hostile) when people start throwing around words like 'ignorant' etc for those that might not choose to eat low-carb. In the original post there was a direct question: why are people hostile? I said basically what you said - moderation, except I also explained that for SOME people (not you or Candy, obviously) it becomes like an evangelical religion and the low-carber has to convert or berate those happily enjoying their sugar. There are also scientific issues: reality is that 3500 calories burned loses one lb of fat, no matter WHAT diet you are on....this is just basic science. So when a low-carber (again, not you) says that 'ONLY THIS WAY WORKS AND THE REST OF YOU ARE IGNORANT' rather than just speaking to the actual science it becomes quite frustrating. I'm GLAD you and others have found things that work for them. Woohoo. There is a possibility that OTHER things might work for you, too. Who knows? Who cares? You've made your choices and that's fine. My only frustration is that it felt a little as if you were putting all the non low-carbers under one umbrella - "hostile". We're not. We were asked. We're explaining. I love sugar. Amen. Wed Feb 01 14:26:18 -0800 2006 1699131 0 Krissywats 3 1699143 Sorry if you took my post as a slam against you. CErtainly was not. In my post I was referring to ( and was specific about it)people/posters who slammed teh South BEach diet without knowing what it actually entailed. Your post did not do that. Any one- low carb pro or against- who becomes evangelical about their stand is only courting hostility. I actually hesitated to post my message, as I was sure some posters may take it the wrong way. I know 3500 calories less results in losing weight. My problem was sugarlevels, potential heart issues- and my excess weight was of the "belly" variety- which is a precursor to future health issues. The South Beach diet simply allowed me to lose the belly weight quickly, improve my health and ( a good point for me) do this without being hungry all of the time. As you posted, another diet may have worked just as well. But my doctor and nutritionist thought this was best for me. Woohoo! Wed Feb 01 15:03:06 -0800 2006 1699139 0 macca 4 1699151 Thanks for clarifying. I try hard not to say 'you DID this' but rather 'I felt like you were doing this' leaving communicatin open for others to correct where I've misunderstood. Thanks for taking the time. Wed Feb 01 16:52:11 -0800 2006 1699143 0 krissywats 2 1699140 Thanks- I learned a long time ago- you can't change another person- you can only change yourself. So- make your own choices and let others make theirs. Of course, I sometimes have to bite my tongue when trying to abide by this!!!! Wed Feb 01 14:29:02 -0800 2006 1699131 0 macca 1 1699146 This is a food community, and I think there is some hostility to diets in general. There is particular hostility to low-carb diets because they don't let you eat a lot of foods that people on this board really like to eat. Some people can lose weight by eating everything they want in moderation. Some people can't. But the people who successfully eat in moderation, without diets, can be pretty critical to those who need to diet to lose weight. The evidence that the low-carb diet has worked for you and thousands of others is more convincing than the opinions of those who haven't tried it but are compelled to criticize it. Wed Feb 01 16:01:56 -0800 2006 1699073 0 cornflower 2 1699152 > But the people who successfully eat in moderation, > without diets, can be pretty critical to those who > need to diet to lose weight. And you might be surprised to learn that those who diet are very often critical those who are lucky enough to eat what they want in moderation and not have a weight or health problem. I can't tell you how many coworkers, friends, family, etc. have told me that I should follow whatever their diet-du-jour is for health reasons. I'm not overweight, and I have always had low blood pressure and low cholestorol. I don't eat junk food. I just can't understand why people feel the need to evangelize to me. I never comment on anyone else's food habits--it just seems like a very personal decision. And I don't think it is okay to evangelize to those who have the aforementioned issues unless they ask for your advice. Now that I live in Spain, no one does this. Not about religion, food, childraising... It must be a cultural thing. I think the bottom line is: don't expect others to make the choices that you have made and don't expect everyone to be able to accomodate your special needs. When you decide to do something that goes against the grain, you have to get used to providing for yourself or it's just not going to work out long term. Wed Feb 01 16:54:25 -0800 2006 1699146 0 butterfly 1 1699176 Thank you for posting this. I recently started South Beach. It's interesting to see the crticism I will be facing. I think I'll need a thicker skin more than I will need 'will power' to stick to the diet. Thu Feb 02 12:41:45 -0800 2006 1699073 0 Tracy L. 2 1699187 Tracy--Have you read many of the posts on this thread? In general, most of the folks who responded here said that they have no problems with low carb. What they have a problem with are people who are insufferably inflexible (I would love to accept your dinner invitation, but I can't come over unless you promise not to use [insert list of 20 everyday items used in cooking here] in anything you serve me) or who prosltyse (ok, I know I'm spelling that wrong, too lazy to look it up) (e.g. "I can't believe you're not cutting back on the beer you drink. You know it's really high in carbs and with your diabetes problem you'll be losing a toe soon if you keep consuming high carb foods." or "Why are you eating lowfat? All kinds of scientific research proves that my way is the only way to lose weight.") I think we all know that the insufferable and the missionaries of the world don't only come in the low-carb flavor. As long as you're not one of them, I don't think you need to worry about developing body armor. Thu Feb 02 14:17:01 -0800 2006 1699176 0 Smokey 3 1699192 Exactly. I know some people on South Beach and other diets, and it never is an issue b/c they live their lives, make their choices, try to be flexible in group situations, and don't go preaching about it. You (in the general sense) don't have to HIDE the fact that you're on the diet, but it doesn't have to be a central theme that needs to be advertised. Best of luck, Tracy L. Thu Feb 02 15:03:20 -0800 2006 1699187 0 Carb Lover 4 1699198 I have the opposite problem. I never mention my food choices to my dining companions, but I am careful of what I'm eating lately: and then I find that they will comment on what I'm eating or not eating anyway. Like why aren't I eating all my bread or whatever. Maybe I just have weird friends? (It's not like they're paying for the meal or anything!) Thu Feb 02 16:56:13 -0800 2006 1699192 0 coll 5 1699204 I think commenting on a person's food choices is just rude. I have a friend who eats toast dosed in vinegar and a layer of salt so thick you'd think she was eating toast w/ sugar and cinnamon. Do I think this is weird? You bet! Would I say anything? Nope, live and let live. Thu Feb 02 17:33:22 -0800 2006 1699198 0 CH Addict 6 1699212 I am with you. I was eating alone at a restaurant the other day and ordered what amounted to a big flat tortilla with some peppers onions and tomatoes with just a dash of cheese on it...the guy at the next table had the nerve to look over, interrupt my reading, and say "That is ALL carbs!" I was so flabbergasted I was speechless. I could not believe the rudeness. Thu Feb 02 22:58:29 -0800 2006 1699204 0 Snackish 5 1699209 yep, that's just as rude as the evangelizers. it's up there with the folks who ask if you're pregnant when you're not drinking alcohol. I doubt your friends are weird--unfortunately, I think it's common (meant in more ways than one) behavior. Thu Feb 02 20:42:37 -0800 2006 1699198 0 smokey 5 1699210 Now that you point it out, I can totally see how some people might do that! That is annoying, but I can see how they might be curious if it's a change in pattern for you. My friends would be aghast if I didn't finish my bread... Thu Feb 02 22:03:53 -0800 2006 1699198 0 Carb Lover 5 1699228 Maybe they just want to eat your bread for you! Fri Feb 03 09:45:10 -0800 2006 1699198 0 danna 3 1699213 >most of the folks who responded here said that they have no problems with low carb< I beg to differ, I counted all the posts and tabulated the responses, I know it is a pretty geeky thing to do. There are nearly twice as many posts that either disagree with the low carb life style or are proponents of carbs. Quite a few were boiled down to 'it's not for me because of XYZ, but whatever floats your boat, is fine by me'. These responses weren't counted as they went both ways and I was looking for either pro or con not both in one post. There were actually a few posts that addressed the dinner guest and vegetarian issues brought up in the original post, go figure. I feel for you. I don't know any other people who are going low carb so I have not been exposed to the prosilitising, I wouldn't like it either. I think it boils down to the idea that diet preferences are very individual and when attacked or called into question feathers get ruffled. To be honest, I accomodate my guests as best I can. My grandma was kosher and her DIL, my mother, wasn't and she loathed making special meals for GM. It would get pretty ugly whenever GM would visit. I swore I would never be that sort of host. So over time I have accomodated all kinds of people with dietary restrictions, preferences etc. What did I learn? It makes people happy. For the most part I get to experiment and have fun and my guests are usually touched that I made them something that they really enjoyed, even the wheat free, vegans who liked a limited variety of organic veggies (and i was on a tight budget!). As a guest in other people's homes I would never make a special request unless I was on a medication that prohibited dairy or something. That whole GM thing made a huge impression on me. Thu Feb 02 23:01:35 -0800 2006 1699187 0 Tracy L. 4 1699218 >For the most part I get to experiment and have fun and my guests are usually touched that I made them something that they really enjoyed< Exactly! Thu Feb 02 23:52:47 -0800 2006 1699213 0 Dev 1 1699189 My reasoning for being critical of low-carb diets came from working as a waiter at TGI Friday's. When the low-carb craze got going, people would order a double bacon cheeseburger with a side of cottage cheese and consider it health food. It doesn't take a genius to see that while it works on a low-carb plan, there's enough cholesterol to drop an elephant in its tracks. Add to the list that it's a really trendy diet. Americans are conditioned to think that the next big diet craze is going to be the magical one that lets them eat all kinds of junk food and still lose weight because they aren't eating a particular type of food. Guess what? They don't work! They never have, they never will. Ten years ago, people were avoiding fat like it was deadly poison. Problem was, they ate a whole box of SnackWell's cookies since they were low fat, cancelling out the benefits of eating healthier food by eating too much of it. I'm not saying that a low-carb lifestyle is a bad thing. There are just too many people who don't go about it right. There's a really simple diet, guaranteed to work. It's called the Put Down the Damn Fork Diet. Commit to eating only foods that are delicious. Pay attention to the food. Enjoy and savor it. When it stops being delicious... Put Down the Damn Fork. Thu Feb 02 14:47:40 -0800 2006 1699073 0 JK Grence (the Cosmic Jester) 2 1699191 In other words, you aren't going to answer the question, you are just going to be hostile. Very constructive. Thu Feb 02 15:01:33 -0800 2006 1699189 0 Two Forks 3 1699194 I think JK did answer the question and is being honest about why he is prejudiced against low carb and what kind of negative associations he has to the label. I personally don't detect any strong hostility; strong opinions are different from hostility. JK, I laughed about the SnackWell's comment b/c I remember when those came out and all the ladies who were on low fat diets were so happy and gorged on them. I tried one and was disgusted...if I'm going to eat stuff like that, I'd rather have Oreos. I don't think they're as popular as they used to be... Along w/ your PDFD diet, I would add the concepts of GOC (get off the computer) and MA (move the arse). I'm certainly including myself in this since I'm allergic to regular exercise, but will force myself to go to yoga later tonight. In this way, I can relate to dieters since I don't have much will power for exercise... Low-carb is just a label that can mean lots of different things to different people and can be implemented in many different ways. There is clearly a sensible route that's working for some of you and then there's those who get caught in the fad diet cycle for whom this is just another passing diet that contributes to yo-yoing, which def. isn't healthy. It's what I've seen from the latter group that makes me cynical about any diet. This is not personally directed at Candy or anyone else here since this is a discussion forum, but I've noticed the most successful dieters are the ones who just live it and do it and rarely talk about it. Kudos to anyone who's trying to better themselves in whatever way since change from habit and desire is very hard... Thu Feb 02 15:59:37 -0800 2006 1699191 0 Carb Lover 4 1699200 >JK, I laughed about the SnackWell's comment b/c I remember when those came out and all the ladies who were on low fat diets were so happy and gorged on them. I tried one and was disgusted...if I'm going to eat stuff like that, I'd rather have Oreos. < I couldn't agree more. As the typical college student trying to lose the "Freshman 15," I used to eat lots of fat free everything. Since being diagnosed as hypoglycemic several years ago, I was advised to limit my refined sugar intake and opt for lower GI foods. I couldn't believe how much sugar was added to all kinds of fat free/lower fat foods! Now I've learned that a tiny bit of Brianna's French Vinaigrette is much better than a glob of FF ranch dressing. And when I crave something sweet, my ocassional indulgence in refined sugar will be reserved for a sliver of the real thing rather than a box of Snackwell's. Thu Feb 02 17:03:37 -0800 2006 1699194 0 Dev 3 1699196 Please - critical is not hostile, calling everyone you don't agree with non-constructive does not advance the discussion. He did answer the question as it relates to his experience, he's seen behavior by dietary dilletantes that claims to be low carb related but is in his experience not rational. The original question was about the (subjective) hostility experienced, I think most of the people who have stated that it isn't that we hate low carb lifestyles, just that we don't care for them. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference, thinking people are hostile is just paranoia. Thu Feb 02 16:42:07 -0800 2006 1699191 0 Larry 2 1699193 I wonder if this is actually a better answer to the "why does there seem to be such hostility...?" than most have been. I think the answer is hidden somewhere in the fact that as a society, we're sick to DEATH of the magic-bullet mentality. So here comes the segment on 20/20 with the low-carber eating a pound of bacon a day, losing weight AND lowering his blood lipids, followed by the guy coming into TGI Fridays for his burger and cottage cheese. It doesn't sound logical, it doesn't sound reasonable, it doesn't sound like something he "should" be doing - so it MUST be a magic-bullet! Put down the fork and show some damned restraint, fat-boy! Somehow, people aren't listening to the rest of us - those that've lost weight (roughly 35/40lbs for me) and kept it off (for over 6 years, again, in my case only). Not necessarily eating pounds of bacon (but if I wanted to I could, LOL) but by making the non-standard choice that works exceptionally well for some people. But I've heard and seen all the reactions you could imagine ("Oh, honey, no nachos? What's the point to living?") and I'd say the magic-bullet-response is the one I've received that the most. It's the knee-jerk "that's not good for you." Mmmm-hhmmmm. And the maintained weight loss, low cholesterol & almost nonexistent triglycerides must be a figment of my imagination? An interesting aside; the "that's not good for you" response does seem to come more often than from those that say they've "tried everything" and "nothing works" in other conversations. Thu Feb 02 15:38:01 -0800 2006 1699189 0 ShanAgain 3 1699220 Putting your body in a state of ketosis is NOT A GOOD THING. Unless, of course,you are looking to develop gout. Low carb diets have been around in various forms since the very early 60's - first "The Drinking Man's Diet," then Atkins, now the more moderate South Beach diet. There is nothing new under the sun, my friend. The end result is either you go off the diet and gain back the weight with startling rapidiy, or compromise your long-term health, as noted above. Fri Feb 03 00:36:49 -0800 2006 1699193 0 sdp 4 1699243 This is precisely the "it's bad for you" response that I referred to. BTW, no gout here, no dramatic weight gain over the six years I've been at around the weight I prefer (roughly 125 for a 5'5" female, give or take five lbs), and your claim that I'm damaging my long-term health is nothing short of absurd. May I ask, what makes you better able to define the quality of my health than my doctor? Just 'cause you said so doesn't exactly hold up. Fri Feb 03 13:10:45 -0800 2006 1699220 0 ShanAgain 4 1699246 Interestingly, we have a friend who was an eating machine and was diagnosed with gout. He could make 6 donuts disappear in the blink of an eye. He's an MD himself (doctor, heal thyself) and decided to give the South Beach diet a try. He lost about 60 pounds, has kept them off b/c he loves eating meat and the SBD allows more carbs than Atkins, and no more gout. He now eats lots of lean chicken and veggies instead of everything that's not nailed down. I think that's a pretty good success story. Fri Feb 03 13:40:24 -0800 2006 1699220 0 Dev 5 1699256 Hard to laugh with my foot up and trying to type sideways...yup, gout attack, first one in almost a year, and it follows a major fall off the South Beach wagon. On top of some painful stress on that foot, I had a bottle of red wine last night and chased it with about a pint of Jello just before bed. BAAAAD move. Doing the colchicine routine today... South Beach isn't really about losing weight, it's about shifting your body's preferences and priorities. My big gut is a problem, and it's going down, but my biggest problem is LCL and triglycerides. Much more noticeable to both of us than the weight loss was an increase in alertness and appetite, and a big decrease in our usual post-prandial torpor. Now, if I could just stop whimpering every time I go past a KFC! Fri Feb 03 16:15:30 -0800 2006 1699246 0 Will Owen 6 1699265 Oh no, Will Owen. I saw your reply mentioning the Lipitor on the Home Cooking Board, AND colchicine? That's a lot of medicine for one person to have to take! I hope you're feeling better tonight! Sat Feb 04 00:29:33 -0800 2006 1699256 0 Dev 7 1699358 Gee, and I didn't even mention the atenolol! All better now, thanks. And spending a day drinking lots of water and not wanting to make a lot of trips to the fridge stripped off the extra pounds I'd picked up from my partying weekend! Mon Feb 06 14:48:21 -0800 2006 1699265 0 Will Owen 6 1699303 Hsve you tried the cherry / cherry juice thing, Will? It seems to have helped me. We have a local company that makes 100% juice, and I always have a bottle in the fridge. Sun Feb 05 01:00:34 -0800 2006 1699256 0 Spudlover 3 1699347 Honestly, having spent my entire life overweight, and then, at 29 deciding not to be, having also spent most of my life talking about how hard it is to lose weight, I don't buy the South Beach or the Atkins stuff at all. It all comes down to portion control. An equation based on calories in vs. calories out. I've had two friends now who have tried all manor of fad diets, etc, and eventually claimed they couldn't lose weight by conventional means and went for the gastric bypass surgery, and yet, I couldn't get them to stay on Weight Watchers with me for a month. The problem isn't that metabolisms are complicated or anything like that. we're just not willing, as a society, to exercise appropriate levels of restraint. Low carb might work for you. There's a lot of evidence to suggest it's dangerous, too. On the other hand, there is no evidence to suggest that portion control and increased exercise are anything but good for you. Mon Feb 06 03:05:23 -0800 2006 1699193 0 Bunny-Bunny