302782 Mon Dec 12 15:56:59 -0800 2005 30 29 Not About Food 0 1697623 Among my many food disappointments this weekend, I had dinner at a sushi restaurant. When I last ate there, husband and I ordered omakase, and it was fantastic. We had a great experience, fantastic food, great service, wonderful evening. Saturday night, sitting at the bar, we asked the chef (same chef, the owner) for omakase, and he said he was sorry but he was too busy, and if he tried to do omakase it would be messy. Choose something, he says. I thought omakase just meant let him give me what he wants to. Seems that would actually be easier than making something specific. Does omakase imply something very special? Last time he made a spectacular presentation of a Mackerel, but I don't require that. I just want the best stuff he has that day, not americanized sushi, and a variety. I'll eat anything. The menu at this place is singularly undescriptive. Any suggestions? Mon Dec 12 15:56:59 -0800 2005 0 danna 1 1697633 Omakase actually involves a set dining course usually, and carries a connotation, I think, of an American "tasting menu"... a lot of prep work and detail; a lot of ingredients. You could have tried, "well, just make me whatever you feel like making"... I play that game at sushi bars a lot and it usually turns out amazing. Mon Dec 12 16:58:14 -0800 2005 1697623 0 Eric 2 1697640 Actually the set meal is usually called a kaiseki dinner. Omakase is really about having the chef make you what is freshest / best in the chef's opinion that day, (more of a jazz riff). You can put some strictures on the chef by telling them how much you are looking to spend or if there are things you don't / won't eat. At least that's the difference between the two to the best of my understanding. Mon Dec 12 18:42:37 -0800 2005 1697633 0 WLA 3 1697763 Your understanding is correct. Just spoke w/ my tutor in Japaneese food...he calls early from Japan. Also a past boss but no longer. Omakase is simply asking the chef to choose what is freshest (not possible w/ reservations, I would think) and best. What does he feel is within your budget and tastes. He sees you have nothing in front of you he prepares another serving. To refuse is unacceptable, according to Noritsugu Kaneshige who taught me to eat Japanese food. He is actually going to telephone Koji-san to express his displeasure. We recommend Sushi Koji to visiting Japanese. Got to love this guy...couldn't boil water but he bought me my first fugu dinner and also introduced me to grilled fish testicles. Fufu was great, actually fantastic but the reproductive organs at a robato...well did it once but probaly not again. To refuse omakase at a sushi bar is not acceptable. I will express these thoughts to Koji-San and Hata-San on my next visit. They can run off the henei gaigin (sp) if they please. Sat Dec 17 17:47:33 -0800 2005 1697640 0 michael b 1 1697643 Please tell me it wasn't at Sushi Koji. This kind of refusal is terrible. No matter how crowded or busy they MUST accept this request. They aren't Chinese so they can't say no. Fifteen years w/ Japanese companies and I never heard "neh". Please tell me it wasn't Sushi Koji. Mon Dec 12 19:19:46 -0800 2005 1697623 0 michael b 2 1697667 Sorry, my friend, it was Koji. He was very nice about it and apologized, but we were disappointed nonetheless, especially after the stellar meal we had last time. I ordered the "sashimi dinner", although I was a bit concerned that maybe he would frown on that selection as well, since he said "choose something". It was good, and he gave me a fantastic piece of uni, and some toro. and something pale yellow and ruffly I didn't recognize. All the fish were excellent. My husband was the one particularly disappointed. He preferes nigiri and rolls. You know how that menu is, he had no idea what rolls to order and wound up with two he did not like. (he dislikes the nori on the outside and can never figure out how to stay away from that) Worse, he felt the tuna quality used in the tuna roll was inferior. If you know of specific items to order off the menu at Koji, in case this happens again (or when I'm there at lunch and Koji is not there), please post it on the South Board. Husband is telling me "I knew we should have tipped him last time", but I told him you said that was not done when the chef is owner. Thanks! Tue Dec 13 10:03:29 -0800 2005 1697643 0 danna 3 1697668 "(he dislikes the nori on the outside and can never figure out how to stay away from that)" Tell him to try his rolls wrapped with soy paper instead of nori. That should do the trick, hopefully. Tue Dec 13 10:25:05 -0800 2005 1697667 0 WLA 3 1697681 You didn't tip him before? I'm surprised he even let you back in. Tipping is a way to reward extraordinary service and experiences - regardless of ownership. It is also a way to ensure that a person's next visit will be as good or better. ed Tue Dec 13 14:55:39 -0800 2005 1697667 0 e.d. 4 1697692 Let's discuss this further: There is no tip jar. None of the other sushi bar patrons, more than 50% japanese, could be spotted tipping (I was watching from the get go). There is no separate line on the cc receipt. Exactly HOW do I go about tipping? And once I figure that out, how much would I tip? Would I then leave the server less than 20%? At the only other sushi place we frequent, we usually tip the waitress per normal, and then drop $5 or $10 in the very prominently displayed tip jar in front of the young chef who we know is not the owner. (it's a casual place w/ no sushi bar). Tue Dec 13 17:00:48 -0800 2005 1697681 0 danna 5 1697693 The waitress may tip the chef out of her tips. I worked in several Japanese restaurants and it worked that way. Even when one of the chefs was the owner. All tips (to the chefs and the waitresses) were pooled and then distributed according to an amazingly elaborate and hierarchical system of percentages. It was always fun to sit around after the shift, eat a meal together, drink beer and try to do all that math. Tue Dec 13 17:05:12 -0800 2005 1697692 0 butterfly 5 1697695 It is traditional and also a lot of fun to tip the sushi chef during the meal by asking the waitress to serve the chef a beer or sake, preferably whatever you are already drinking. This is a big part about building your relationship with the sushi chef. Tue Dec 13 18:52:31 -0800 2005 1697692 0 Benny Choi 6 1697705 I have read that before, and to be honest it confuses me further. How can someone work with the precision and organization required of a sushi chef, and drink beers coming at him all night? Or is it just a tradition for show and he doesn't actually drink? I know I sound argumentative in this part of the thread...but, really, I take pride in tipping well, and I would LIKE to tip the guy, but the practical aspects are giving me fits. Wed Dec 14 09:27:48 -0800 2005 1697695 0 danna 7 1697708 If you want to tip the chef, you can give his tip to the waitress and let her know it's for the chef. Odds are that it will get pooled with all of the other tips, but she will let him know about it, in any case. Wed Dec 14 11:04:47 -0800 2005 1697705 0 butterfly 7 1697739 Sushi chefs are professional adults and are not slamming multiple beers or doing multiple sake shots while also trying to do precision slicing while drunk. They are able to handle gradual sips of beer or sake with little effect on their ability to produce your sushi. If anything, they may feel more at ease and in a better mood with the drink while making your sushi. Try it and see. Thu Dec 15 14:38:42 -0800 2005 1697705 0 Benny Choi 7 1697747 Danna, I empathize w/ your confusion since the etiquette discussions for sushi bars and omakase don't always make sense or fit for me. I've never done omakase before, but have eaten sushi regularly in the US and it has never felt natural for me to buy the sushi chef a drink...until last night. Husband and I went to a quiet neighorhood sushi bar that we've only been to once before a few months ago. Yet when we entered and sat down everyone there recognized us and we recognized them. We immediately felt at home. We were the only ones at the bar since we went on the late side. We were fed well and at a nice leisurely pace while we chatted w/ the two sushi chefs and the waitress. Towards the end of our meal, it felt completely right to buy these good folks a drink. We offered and they accepted and pulled out one big beer to share amongst the 3 of them. We clinked glasses and exchanged "cheers". Very convivial and heartwarming exchange. I recount this to illustrate one scenario of buying the staff a drink. It felt right to me this time, but this is not to say that we'll do it everytime or that we'll do that anywhere else. Just depends on the circumstances. I think the blanket advice of "buy the chef a drink" doesn't always fit, esp. when the interaction is limited or I've just sat down. I don't believe in forcing it. We aren't sake drinkers really, but if we had a carafe of sake, I'd certainly offer some to the chef if it felt right. We tipped the staff well, and I've never tipped a sushi chef exclusively. That may feel right one day, but again, I'm not going to force it. I can understand why you'd be disappointed about being turned down for omakase, but I respect the chef for having high standards and recognizing his limits at the moment. You may have been much more disappointed w/ a half-hearted attempt if he had complied. If your intent is omakase, then I suggest going during non-peak hours/days to increase your chances of omakase service and having more interaction w/ the chef. Thu Dec 15 23:28:56 -0800 2005 1697705 0 Carb Lover 6 1697762 Can't do it in SC. Against the law. Sat Dec 17 17:32:18 -0800 2005 1697695 0 michael b 2 1697674 Most omakase reservations are made in advance, so the chef can plan ahead. There is a vast difference between simply ordering a la carte, even giving the chef leeway in his selections, to allowing a fixed price complete presentation, which may require his undivided attention. Tue Dec 13 13:10:01 -0800 2005 1697643 0 Two Forks 3 1697680 But I thought omakase was a pretty casual way of stating you want the chef to choose (as indicated by Applehome). Now, if the chef wants to make a complicated selection available for when someone says omakase, that's his choice... but in a pinch I thought he could simply give the patron a selection of what the chef wants to make that day, whether it's just a couple of rolls or a selection of good sashimi. Tue Dec 13 13:43:18 -0800 2005 1697674 0 Curtis 4 1697682 i've always thought the appeal of omakase is that you're getting items that are not necessarily on the menu and made up on a creative whim by the chef. if this is the case, then if the chef is too busy to show his best then he shouldn't do it at all. he doesn't want to just throw out some rolls because he takes pride in creating a nice tasting menu for his guests and taking care of them the best way he knows how. if i were paying $50-80/pp for an omakase, i wouldn't want the chef to be sending me things that i could have just ordered myself on the menu. Tue Dec 13 15:00:41 -0800 2005 1697680 0 rebs 4 1697706 No, I believe you are mistaken. Wed Dec 14 10:45:25 -0800 2005 1697680 0 Two Forks 5 1697709 LOL. Then please, do indulge me and elaborate for my ignorant little self. Wed Dec 14 11:18:25 -0800 2005 1697706 0 Curtis 6 1697711 As I stated earlier, you can sit down at any sushi bar and simply give the sushiya full reign. That is not omakase. When ordering omakase you will get a far wider range of offerings, icluding dishes from the kitchen. Generally they will want reservations made in advance, although not always, so that they can give you the attention which is fitting for this type of service. They will also ask how much you want to spend, so they can tailor a menu to your budget. I would never expect to walk into a busy restaurant and expect to have omakase without having made reservations. Wed Dec 14 12:25:22 -0800 2005 1697709 0 Two Forks 7 1697721 I've been to some of the best Japanese salariiman only places in NYC, LA and Tokyo - the kinds that have no sign, but are exclusive to Japanese - no English spoken, with sushiyas that have trained exclusively in the best houses for years and that are incredibly creative in not only their sushi and sashimi but in lots individual dishes that are prepared and brought out all night long, as we drink our BYOB kept bottles of sochu and nihonshu... I've also become a semi-regular (as regular as my meager income allows) at my favorite Boston area sushiya which also has a significant Japanese clientele. Anyway - never, once have I made a reservation. Not once. We always walk in, tell the owner/sushiya omakase, and get fed some of the most wondrous items as we sit and drink all night. I was at a more family oriented place in NYC not long ago with my brother and friends - I don't remember the name, but it was on East Houston (it had a sign). Everybody spoke Japanese. (In NYC this may not be such a big distinction, but in the Boston area, where there are so few Japanese businessmen left, us imports - and the nisei/sansei are all that keep many authentic places going, it's just one place after another that caters to Americans - God only knows what crazy psuedo-Asian/American traditions have evolved.) Anyway, it was early, but busy - we had to wait for a table. Once we sat down, we ordered drinks and asked the waitress for omakase. The sushiyas behind the counter asked us a few questions about what we liked, and started to serve us small dishes of amazing stuff. NO reservations. (Bourdain, sliding across the ice...) Wed Dec 14 22:36:14 -0800 2005 1697711 0 applehome 8 1697724 I'm gonna back up applehome on this one. Sorry, Two Forks. I believe you when you say that the restaurants near you ask for advanced reservations to prepare something extraordinary. Not disputing what your local restaurant do, because I have no idea. As they say, your mileage may vary. However, requiring advanced reservations is the exception, not the rule. The Japanese owned restaurants that cater to a Japanese clientele do as applehome describe, in my experience. I too am Japanese born, speak the language as my first, and have lived in NYC, Tokyo, and L.A. I'm not flashing credentials for the sake of it, but it may be a factor in how the chefs perceive my expectation of the word omakase, both culturally and culinarily. Thu Dec 15 01:03:31 -0800 2005 1697721 0 Professor Salt 9 1697731 I see your point, and I agree it can be different at different places. However, if you read danna's original post, where the sushiya said it was too busy and he could not do it justice, this is in line with my experiences where reservations are preferred, if not flat-out required. Personally, I want the undivided attention and full ability of the sushiya when ordering omakase, which I still maintain is a different experience than just having the chef select what he thinks is freshest or whatever. Experiences may differ. Thu Dec 15 11:19:20 -0800 2005 1697724 0 Two Forks 2 1697696 No sushi chef "MUST accept this request" from anyone. They have the right to refuse service to anyone. Omakase puts extra pressure on the sushi chef to think about what dish to make you next, regardless of whether the series of dishes is planned ahead or not. If the sushi bar is slammed, the chef has every right to push back the responsibility of selecting the menu items onto you. The sushi chef at Tekka once refused to provide omakase for us. We took it in stride and simply ordered most everything on the menu anyways (we were a group of 7). Tue Dec 13 18:57:20 -0800 2005 1697643 0 Benny Choi 1 1697657 Oma has the same root as omae, which means "you", used in inpolite form. It's not "trust me", a suggestion from the Sushiya, but "you decide", an order from the customer. It's part of the vernacular that developed with sushiyas and their salariiman customers - you can just see the sacho and his workers puffing away, drinking sake, and deep into discussion - not wanting to bother with lots of orders and individual selecting, ordering more gari and namida. And yet, they wanted the best of the best, so there has always been an implied requirement that the selections be special. Sushiyas want to show off to their best customers. So how does that translate into today's "sushi for everybody" culture? Well, for one thing, there was never a paper checklist. That takes the place of Omakase from the perspective of "order once, sit all night". In the meanwhile, the implied quality part of Omakase has morphed into an almost formal Kaiseki-roryu, where a set presentation is expected - of the highest quality and creativity. From that perspective, I can certainly understand a sushiya begging out from that in the middle of rush hour. Sushi was not even a full meal dinner item until recent years. It was an appetizer or later night drinking food. The real afficionado went for lunch - right after the fish was delivered (still a good idea). Sushi in America today is far removed from the traditional ways. I don't think there's any expectation, in either direction, that traditional foods, training, processes, or words, will be maintained. I would give this sushiya a break. Come back when it isn't so busy and ask him to really strut his stuff. Mon Dec 12 23:22:17 -0800 2005 1697623 0 applehome 2 1697780 I'm not sure if your linguistic historical explanation is accurate. At least it doesn't make much sense to me. The word OMAKASE comes from the root word MAKASU. So whenever I ask for omakase in Japanese, you can say, "Omakase ni shimasu" (I'll do omakase), or "Makashite okimasu" (I'll leave it up to you). I said pretty much the same thing in this old thread. And I even mentioned that omakase is usually unavailable when the itamae is too busy to concentrate on individual orders. My best experiences at sushi places are the ones that aren't super-busy, so you can get some special attention from the chef. Also, I guess I'll reiterate that omakase generally refers to an interactive process, where the chef tries to create dishes to your tastes, so if it's a set menu, it's not really omakase. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/292121#1593356 Sun Dec 18 03:06:00 -0800 2005 1697657 0 Eric Eto 3 1697799 I'm no linguist - but I don't see the formulation of the O as an honorific here - more likely the contraction of omae ni makasu - and the friendly or impolite form of makasu instead of makaseru makes it a part of the vernacular, as I said - the set of words used in sushi bars originally exclusively, but long since in use more generally. I have not usually seen omakase used in a truly interactive process. There is always a greeting and a few questions about what's good, what special preparations the guy has made, etc... There is always the opportunity to say that something sounds really good and ask for that in particualr as part of the omakase. In one of my favorite places in NYC, the chef asks you if you want the short or longer version (say 5 dishes vs. 7), no different than asking how much you want to pay, I guess. But after that, there isn't much interaction - except sometimes, we'll comment on how delicious something was and could you give me another course of that? If you want a truly interactive process, you sit at the bar and yak with the chef and order basically one or maybe a couple of things at a time - there's no reason why he can't tell you what special items he has. Now - that's something I definitely reserve for unbusy times. One of the chefs I know preps all kinds of specialty items - quail eggs in special sauce, "fake caviar" (from wheat stalks). Other items are cooked on the spot - the grilled cherry tomatoes wrapepd in shiso and bacon... Other chefs specialize in sashimi and/or sushi only. It's traditional to end with a small bowl of ramen or chahan. But I don't believe that a truly interactive session could be called omakase. Sun Dec 18 16:23:59 -0800 2005 1697780 0 applehome 4 1697809 I think the difference with omakase is that you are honoring the chef in trusting him to select for you. Honor being a very important concept and by trusting the chef not to give you something he would not want served to him that night if he was sitting on your side of the bar he is really put in your debt in a very Japanese way. That is my take on it in any case. Sun Dec 18 18:41:22 -0800 2005 1697799 0 WLA 4 1697882 While it's plausible that your explanation on the etymology of the term omakase comes from a contraction of the informal "omae" (you) and "makasu", it just seems highly unlikely. I doubt that the word omakase was born out of the vernaculars of sushi bar culture. It's used pretty generically in Japanese, and among the native Japanese I polled, they can't agree with you either. As for my strict position on the term omakase, whenever I sit at a counter (be it sushi, kappo ryori, tempura, etc.) I usually get asked about my "suki/kirai" (likes/dislikes) and I usually pose the question to a chef about the "osusume" (specialty) of the house. This interaction allows the chef to understand your tastes, and for you to understand the chef's strengths, and I've had instances where the chef went into his personal stash of ingredients to make something that he thought I would like. This is the fun part of sitting at the counter. You're right that there are places where you get an omakase set course, and I have no complaint about those places. Places like Tsukushi, Toraya, or Ichimura in NYC come to mind. But I guess I've had really special experiences having a chef tailor a meal for me a few times and those couldn't have happened in really busy places or places where the chef wouldn't find out about my tastes. Tue Dec 20 12:32:20 -0800 2005 1697799 0 Eric Eto