302766 Thu Dec 08 19:36:16 -0800 2005 22 29 Not About Food 0 1697447 Another bill split dilema. I've never figured out how this happens, but I've figured out how to avoid putting myself in an awkward position. This is the senario - you go to dinner with a group 10-12+ (the larger the group the bigger the problem - $$$wise) Everyone is responsible for their own food, drink, tax, and tip. Somehow the money always comes up short. And the poor soul who volunteered to collect and count the money is left scrambling trying to straighten out the mess. Do people have selective recall, somehow remembering the entree, but forgetting the appetizer, or dessert, or coffee, etc. It happens almost without fail. I've haven't figured out why this happens, but I've learned NEVER to volunteer to count or collect the money. What is that all about? Thu Dec 08 19:36:16 -0800 2005 0 n 1 1697449 I've found that you absolutely CANNOT leave it to individual judgment, but must have one person do the calculating and allocating and tell people outright what they owe -- in my social group, thankfully, we're at the point where we most often just split evenly, which makes things much easier. But if there is a big difference in what people ordered, it is up to the allocator to decide and tell them what to pay. It's the only way. I have been to meals where I've literally seen somebody go round the table and ask each person how much they put in to find the perpetrator, which was both embarrasing and gauche. The above method is much more civil, and leaves little wiggle room for the cheapskates. Thu Dec 08 20:47:32 -0800 2005 1697447 0 DanaB 1 1697450 I've had people with me contribute enough to cover their meal but "forget" the tip & taxes. I always make sure to have cash in my pocket and never volunteer to be accountant. Thu Dec 08 22:40:02 -0800 2005 1697447 0 Larry 2 1697458 They know I'm an accountant, and so I always get the bill in these situations. Here's the deal: You don't merely collect and count. You tell them what they owe, and you round up. If their enchilada was $7.75 you count $8, etc. Then you add in tax and %20 tip. If it's a really big crowd, you're gonna want to get a pen and check off the items on the bill as you go. You'd think it wouldn't be that f-in' difficult to do separate checks in the electronic age, but apparently it is. The worst thing you can do is give the server your card and then let people "throw in what they owe". You will seriously get screwed. Unless of course you are eating with people that you would like to subsidize their meals without them knowing it. Fri Dec 09 09:40:52 -0800 2005 1697450 0 danna 3 1697463 I'm with Danna. It's a pain for the accountant. But to reduce the dreaded "there's not enough money here, did everybody include tax and tip?" you simply tell people how much they owe. If they decide to question you, you go through the itemization with them and ask if you did it right. You may have gotten it wrong (e.g. "No, I didn't order the quesadillas, Mary did.") or they may have been under the impression that they were a non-taxable entity under city/state regulations (e.g. "oh, I must have forgotten about tax"). Regardless, it's a clear discussion and you won't end up scrambling looking for money that nobody thinks they owe, and the folks who were already generous before just end up paying more for the tightwads. Fri Dec 09 11:02:16 -0800 2005 1697458 0 Smokey 1 1697453 Maybe for larger groups some ground rules can be set beforehand, but for smaller groups, say several couples, I just state at the outset that I want separate checks, for ease of figuring. Never had anyone object. If they think I am gauche, they keep it to themselves. I don't want to be manipulated by irresponsible people. Fri Dec 09 00:30:23 -0800 2005 1697447 0 Spudlover 2 1697454 don't you love those diners where the waitress asks right away, even if you are a party of 8, do you want separate checks? one tips well. I've had both individuals figure out the bill for all [and no, not the same person] or the check is passed around for individual reckonings. If it is short, a call is made to toss in an extra dollar. Known cheapskates may be solicited by name. Divvying up the bill equitably is one of my patriotic acts; helping to keep Amuricans math literate, so we can continue to rule the world. Fri Dec 09 02:43:32 -0800 2005 1697453 0 semmel 3 1697467 Where my parents retired to down in northern Arkansas, separate checks are the standard in many of the restaraunts. When we visit down there it's odd to actually have to tell the waitron to put the meal on one check. Fri Dec 09 11:56:17 -0800 2005 1697454 0 Larry 1 1697459 I'm sorry, but doesn't this go away as people get older? I remember this happening in college and right after, but since grad school and actually having a job, big group dinners usually end up having too MUCH money on the table and everyone ends up getting $5 back or so. This may be due to a couple things: 1) As the years have gone by, known cheapskates are no longer invited out. (You'll be surprised how quickly that cures their cheapness.-- This is the MOST effective solution.) 2) Everyone knows before hand how expensive (or inexpensive) the place will be so they can make their own decision about whether or not to come. 3) We tend to order the same amount of food per person so we don't have those big discrepancies like someone has a soup only and someone else has an appetizer, a main, dessert, coffee and a bottle of wine. 4) Alcohol is separate so people not in the mood to drink don't subsidize the alcholics. 5) We usually split the bill evenly (becasue of #3 and #4), but sometimes especially with new people, we will go person by person. Each person puts in what they think they owe and it's checked against the bill. (This totally eliminates the ability of those people who think if they've gotten something for $8.75 they can put in $9.00.) Fri Dec 09 10:05:40 -0800 2005 1697447 0 Jonathan Saw 2 1697466 >>I'm sorry, but doesn't this go away as people get older? I remember this happening in college and right after, but since grad school and actually having a job, big group dinners usually end up having too MUCH money on the table and everyone ends up getting $5 back or so.>> Some of the people who are really bad about this are really old, IMO. Fri Dec 09 11:54:01 -0800 2005 1697459 0 bibi rose 3 1697482 That's for sure. And some of them are pretty wealthy as well. The other day we split a bill at a modest steak joint with a comfortably retired 50-year old (the only child of two only children). When the four of us ended up with too much money for the tab, he immediately piped up: "Well then I should get something back. I put in $60!" He did contribute more than the rest of us. But he had steak and lobster, two glasses of wine and an appetizer. One of our guys had a burger and a Stoli and put in $40. Geez. Fri Dec 09 15:55:58 -0800 2005 1697466 0 quiz wrangler 4 1697489 You had dinner with my brother-in-law? I guess retired people and people living on trust funds feel like they have x amount of money per month and no more so they have to conserve. Fri Dec 09 19:06:33 -0800 2005 1697482 0 bibi rose 5 1697625 I guess that's the official version, the poor dears. BTW, I think I've heard tales of your BIL before, BR. Believe me, I feel your pain. Mon Dec 12 16:09:56 -0800 2005 1697489 0 quiz wrangler 2 1697475 Thanks, I was wondering if I was the only one who dined with people who actually wind up putting MORE money in than accounts for the tab. Maybe another thing to consider is income level as one gets older. When most people have more disposable income they are less likely to underpay. Sometimes the excessive bucks go to the server and sometimes it gets recalculated to see who overpaid. Fri Dec 09 13:34:35 -0800 2005 1697459 0 rworange 3 1697555 I thought that only happened with waiters. When we go out as a group, whether it's for drinks or a full blown dinner, there's always too much money at the end. Years ago I worked at a place that was killer busy on a Saturday night, and after work a bunch of us would go to a pub across the street, drink like fiends and tell our war stories. The waitress there LOVED us because we always ended up with too much money on the table and would just leave it for her. LOL! What goes around comes around...she'd always give us freebies in return. It was a good arrangement all around. Let's face it, some people are just cheap, plain and simple. I had a friend who used to complain about something every time we went out anywhere. It was like he looked for a problem so that he could justify stiffing the server. Needless to say, we don't dine out together any longer. Sun Dec 11 12:44:41 -0800 2005 1697475 0 lesommelier 2 1697491 > [..] doesn't this go away as people get older? Sometimes but not always. I've gone on luncheons with people from work and it amazes me how some people will act if they think there's a freebie involved. Age does not matter in these circumstances, either. You have to be as direct as possible with these people, not caring that they get hurt feelings. The people I dine out with outside work _never_ skimped on the bill! We've always ended up with a nice pot at the end... I guess it's a matter of who's collecting the money and whether they have Death's Spectre perched atop their shoulder. Fri Dec 09 20:36:19 -0800 2005 1697459 0 The Ranger 1 1697464 Funny, some folks have learned never to leave this task to the cheapskates, who appear to leave a 10% tip and pocket the difference. So then they take to never having cash so that they collect our cash and put the bill on their credit card to do likewise... Some people are very insistent on gaming things this way. I usually remind folks to add 25% for tax and tip onto their base; that seems to help (people may remember the tip, but they very frequently forget the tax). Fri Dec 09 11:06:44 -0800 2005 1697447 0 Karl S 1 1697465 I dunno if I agree with your solution, because it's still going to be insane for somebody, even if it's not you. What would be wrong with assuring right off the bat that it's "separate checks, puh-leeze!" Fri Dec 09 11:45:00 -0800 2005 1697447 0 Niki Rothman 1 1697498 Pity the poor sap who has to be the accountant at a meal with a number of people. The amount contributed always comes up short. It is always easier to just split the bill evenly but unfortunately someone always gets shafted when someone orders prime rib and another a sandwich. If you sit where the server is most likely to bring the check you will wind up being the accountant involuntarely. Try to sit where you know you will not get the check. Sat Dec 10 11:10:35 -0800 2005 1697447 0 malibumike 1 1697499 A lot of times people underestimate tax/gratuity, or they round down, etc. Try to make this easy. Add up your food and drink and round up on the stuff that is $$xx.95, $$xx.75 etc. Then in a high tax metro area where the tax might be close to 9% tell them to add another 25%; that leaves 16% for the server. If you live in a lower tax area, just add 20-25%. These figures are easy since you just divide by 4 or 5 or double the amount for 20%. Unfortunately, a lot of people today, both kids and adults are lost with simple arithmetic like this, so unless they have a calculator available mistakes happen. Link: http://www.thekidfrombrooklyn.com/movies/PennyPinchers_0205.wmv Sat Dec 10 11:38:59 -0800 2005 1697447 0 tony brooklyn 1 1697507 I used to work in a department that went out for lunch frequently for promotions, people moving to other departments, etc. There would usually be about 12-15 people. We would get a menu ahead of time, have everyone choose their entire meal, and put the prices into an Excel spreadsheet. The spreadsheet would calculate tax and tip, round to the nearest dollar, and split the price of the meal of the "person of honor" among the other attendees. Then everyone knew how much they owed, and we could even collect money ahead of time. Obviously, this works best in an office setting where everyone sort of expects to pay their own way. On some level, though, it's the perfect, if impractical, solution to this whole problem. (Or maybe I'm just a numbers geek...did I mention that it was an actuarial department?) Sat Dec 10 13:48:21 -0800 2005 1697447 0 maryelizabeth 2 1697513 I love this idea. I work in a small office, so we take turns paying for lunch- but I love your idea for a large crowd. Sat Dec 10 14:27:28 -0800 2005 1697507 0 macca 1 1697511 Interesting thread. I quit going to dutch lunches many years ago for this very reason. I own the company and everyone expected me to pay. Two hundred dollar lunches once a week are just a bit off the wall. I tried everything to let everyone know I was just going to lunch w/ them until I gave up and had them bring me a sandwich back. Not a good communicator I guess. Sat Dec 10 14:16:00 -0800 2005 1697447 0 michael b