302691 Mon Oct 31 19:57:02 -0800 2005 18 29 Not About Food 0 1696403 Last night my fiance took me to dinner at a local steakhouse, not a chain, that we had never tried. When we sat down I asked for a wine list, as the place has displayed prominently in the foyer two Wine Spectator Awards of Excellence for having "one of the best wine lists in the world." Since we live in a small agricultural community half-way between Santa Barbara and Los Angeles, and we are definitely NOT known for sophisticated food and wine consumption (the most popular places are Macaroni Grill and Mimi's Cafe), I was intrigued. The waitress said they didn't have a wine list for ordering by the glass, (she assumed correctly as we were sipping martinis) but she could tell us what they had. She mentioned a Columbia Crest and Mt. St. Michelle, neither of which are impressive wines in my experience. She said her favorite was Byron Pinot Noir, so we took her up on it. The wine that came with dinner was inky dark red and tasted like a flabby merlot -- none of the smokey complexity of a pinot. We questioned the waitress and she insisted that it was pinot, but a "medium-bodied one." I trust my palate enough to know the difference between varietals, but I didn't want to push it because she was so insistent and I didn't want to make a big deal out of it. The shocker was when the bill came: $9.95 per glass. I've paid that much, but at places like Gary Danko in San Francisco, or Charleston Grill in Charleston, SC or Brigsten's in New Orleans when the wine was wonderful. What the heck happened? What would you have done in my position? Does anyone know what a Wine Spectator Award really means? I've never had such an odd experience... Mon Oct 31 19:57:02 -0800 2005 0 AmySue 1 1696405 Apparently it means "Now you can charge ridiculous prices for plonk you couldn't give away before." Two thoughts: first, I would've declared the wine unacceptable and asked for another recommendation. Of course you ought to do this before drinking more that a bit of it. Second, if an establishment sells wines by the glass they need to have a list of those so available, with PRINTED PRICES. You were misused there, period. Mon Oct 31 21:21:42 -0800 2005 1696403 0 Will Owen 2 1696568 Yeah! What awesome responses. You have no idea how giddy this thread makes me. As a former wine director I'm so happy w/ every last snarky one of you! Another rule: Beware a bottle or list that has to tout its so-called awards. 5$ Aussie Shiraz with 10 gold medals on the front? Hmmmmm... A brass plaque from the Whozitwhatzit County Fair? Uhhhh.... There are no Wine Oscars, no Super-wine-bowl, no Westminster Wine Show. A blue ribbon means nothing if, like the first poster, you don't like the bloody wine. Reviewing wine is a million times harder than reviewing movies. Awarding wine? That's even more futile. Link: http://www.wineoffensive.com/blog Thu Nov 03 20:47:00 -0800 2005 1696405 0 maggie 3 1696713 "A brass plaque from the Whozitwhatzit County Fair? Uhhhh.... There are no Wine Oscars, no Super-wine-bowl, no Westminster Wine Show." Hee, hee - so true - awards are pretty much meaninless. Two examples: a friend won medals in homewinemaking competition with a syrah so full of hydrogen sulfide it was ghastly and totally undrinkable. Another friend, a professional winemaker, was ready to toss a barrel of bad chardonnay. A critic/writer was visiting and insisted on trying it. The critic raved, friend bottled and went on to win several awards. Wed Nov 09 14:24:40 -0800 2005 1696568 0 Junie D 1 1696409 Amy, I have a rule of thumb about Pinot Noirs: Never order an inexpensive Pinot. They are invariably dreck. (And those served by the glass generally fall into this catagory.) From the sound of it, your waitress was clueless or simply trained for the upsell. While they may have made a few extra dollars on your order, I am fairly certain they eliminated the concept of repeat business from you. As to the Wine Spectator awards, I'm not impressed. Having a good cellar and a clueless waitstaff is not my idea of great customer service. I've seen this scenario before; my suggestion, let them keep their extensive cellar entirely intact--permanently. Mon Oct 31 21:43:34 -0800 2005 1696403 0 Leper 1 1696410 I've only seen the so-called "Wine Spectator Awards of Excellence" so far in places with lousy, overpriced lists. Undoubtedly, some kind of marketing gimmick. As the entire WS empire, for that matter. Mon Oct 31 21:45:25 -0800 2005 1696403 0 RicRios 2 1696420 Rarely is the receipt of an "award" a guarantee of excellence, especially with wine, and actors. Tue Nov 01 08:28:12 -0800 2005 1696410 0 beevod 1 1696412 I thought that you could purchase the Wine Spectator awards. Mon Oct 31 22:28:15 -0800 2005 1696403 0 wally 2 1696536 Yes, my understanding is that you send money and they send you the "award." Thu Nov 03 10:41:10 -0800 2005 1696412 0 Steve 1 1696413 i don't think the waitress was lying to you. byron pinot noir is a big pinot, especially if it was their "hangtime" (the name comes from the fact that they leave the grapes hanging on the vine a little bit longer so that the grapes get very ripe/just under raisinated to achieve a bigger, darker wine). it's almost like a syrah. Mon Oct 31 23:08:41 -0800 2005 1696403 0 rebs 2 1696434 I'm glad to get that information on the Byron pinot. I know I should have asked to see the bottle -- maybe I would have learned that this was a special bottling, a reserve that would make it different from other pinots. Since the wineries the waitress did mention were sort of supermarket wines that most places around here sell for $6-$7 a glass, I assumed the pinot would fall into the same price/quality category. I wasn't expecting great wine, but I also wasn't expecting $10 per glass. Tue Nov 01 13:13:25 -0800 2005 1696413 0 AmySue 3 1696444 You can expect a glass pour at a restaurant to be the wholesale cost of the bottle. The retail price tends to be, at least in my area, about double the wholesale price. So, a $20 pinot. Not usually a good sign. And it sounds like a terrible one too, a "pinot more like a syrah" sounds like crap to me. Tue Nov 01 15:49:37 -0800 2005 1696434 0 Morgan 4 1696450 typical cali style grape juice bomb. Tue Nov 01 20:13:49 -0800 2005 1696444 0 mrnyc 5 1696651 Blow me up...sorry but I love our insane fruit bombs. I also like something a little more subtle too but the big fruit is good for me. Mon Nov 07 19:12:11 -0800 2005 1696450 0 Snackish 1 1696416 I think the award means that you faxed your wine list to the magazine and they felt the selection of wines on the list was interesting. Not to defend the magazine but I do not think the award reflects on price and it surely cannot reflect on the knowledge of the individual servers. In this case the server was a disaster. And I do not mean for serving you a wine you did not like (tastes vary greatly between people). The reasons she failed miserably in her job are first not pouring the glass at the table so you could see the bottle and thereby eliminate all questions about what the wine was before they arose, second for not bring the bottle once you questioned the wine, and third for not picking up that you were not happy with the wine and offering you an alternative. So all in all, a very bad server. But that is as good a reason as any for not returning to the establishment. It is managements job to make sure all servers are properly trained in service. Tue Nov 01 02:34:29 -0800 2005 1696403 0 mdibiaso 2 1696638 "The reasons she failed miserably in her job are first not pouring the glass at the table so you could see the bottle and thereby eliminate all questions about what the wine was before they arose" I have never been in a resto that poured wine at the table when the wine was ordered "by the glass"; I have only seen this done at the bar. Mon Nov 07 12:53:47 -0800 2005 1696416 0 GooGLeR 1 1696567 Oh boy. A Wine Speculator Award of Excellence means many things depending on who answers the question. My answer? The more Wine Spectator advertisers you have on your list, the better. (for example, Columbia Crest and Chateau St. Michelle) Most lists with this award carry a high percentage of corporate wines. Many wine snobs will argue with me, but it's true. But who am I? Just someone who's been in the business their entire life. On the Pinot issue: You are right and not right. Scary but true, $10 a glass isn't out of bounds any more. Restaurants have to cover costs. Basically, you're paying for them to have a selection of glass pours and therefore lots of waste. And you probably didn't know that it is a fad in California to make high alcohol Pinot Noir that tastes like Syrah. So you were right to be suspicious and the server should have offered another wine. In the words of Charlie Brown, "Good grief." and "Blech!" Link: http://www.wineoffensive.com/blog Thu Nov 03 20:34:31 -0800 2005 1696403 0 maggie 1 1696688 The Wine Spectator awards are not mearly bought,but not too far off the mark. I used to run a luxury hotels wine program and we had a major investment in wine and a full staff of Wine Stewards. We all trusted our palates and knew every wine on the list (600 plus) intimately. The Spectator pulled our award one year and would not offer explanation, to me the answer was very clear, we did not stock wines that either A.) Advertised in the publication and B.)didn't buy into their bought and sold ratings. A resto not far from my estalishment came out with a credo that they would only stock wines recieving 90 points or more was granted a best of award of excellence the first year they were open. To drive the point home a friend of mine who owns a well known winery caled the Spectator to ask how to submit his wines for review, they directed his call to the advertising department, he said there must be some mistake. they assured him there was not. Wed Nov 09 09:33:02 -0800 2005 1696403 0 Winemark 1 1696807 I would not be suprised to see a glass of Byron go for $10 a glass, a little high, but not out of line with what many restaurants would charge. It is a big Pinot, and does taste a lot like a Syrah, but that is the current CA style for the Pinot fruit bombs. As to the Wine Spectator award, the restaurant is requried to send the following for entry into the program: Thier current wine list. Thier current dinner menu. A cover letter explaining the restaurant's wine program. The cover letter must be on restaurant letterhead with phone and fax number, and must be in English. A nonrefundable entry fee of $200, payable by credit card or check in U.S. dollars. The basic award is the Award of Excellence. WS is looking to recognize a commitment to a fine wine list, with a sufficient selection of better producers along with a thematic match to the menu in both price and style. Award of Excellence lists typically offer at least 80 selections. Does the fact that you have wines that are advertised in WS have an effect, that is a topic for much discussion on the WS forums, but more likely, the restaurant that tailors its list to meet the criteria stated above and pays $200 will get the award. Obviously WS does not and cannot visit and verify every restaurant wine list, but at least if you see a restaurant with an award you will know that there is at least some effort to have a decent wine list. Prices of the wine is not a factor, but WS does say in the magazine whether a restaurant's list prices are inexpensive, moderate, or expensive. Tue Nov 15 08:33:30 -0800 2005 1696403 0 dinwiddie