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Effort to lose wt -- I ask myself if I really am hungry for a 6oz salmon fillet.... or just pasta/ sandwich/ a sweet, etc....

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Seems to tell me when I am Really hungry.... and I love salmon, btw -- but could Never eat a ton of it, like I could pasta, bread, fruit, etc.....

Funny how Some of us seem to be strangely affected by carbs..... many of my friends are not. But also know a lot of people who can similarly eat large portions of rice, cereal, bread, pizza, potatoes, cookies, chips, etc, but who don't overeat when eating other favorite foods of theirs liked smoked fish, asparagus, arugula salads, etc....

Seems weird how carbs make some of us Ultra-hungry!!!

Anyone feel the same?

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  1. Take it from someone who has a lot of experience with this, complex carbs (i.e. grain and refined sugar based) breed the need for more carbs. I have been doing a modified liquid diet for 7 months, I do not eat grain based carbs. Liquid protein drink three times a day, one *reasonable* meal, which usually consists of as much raw vegetables as I like and a portion of protein, skinless chicken breast, roasted turkey breast or baked fish.

    Once you purge your system of all the crap that comes with complex carbs, and too much meat and fat, you begin to really taste food. The raw veggies are great, especially when livened up with some salsa. The fish has been wonderful. Had a baked salmon filet last night, and one of the left over ones cold tonight.

    Lose the complex carbs.

    Link: http://www.indefatigable-indolence.org

    5 Replies
    1. re: Chino Wayne

      >>Take it from someone who has a lot of experience with this, complex carbs (i.e. grain and refined sugar based)>>

      Do you mean simple carbohydrates by any chance?

      1. re: bibi rose

        Bibi, when you are right, you are RIGHT. I keep getting this backwards. "Complex" carbs are the good ones, "simple" carbs are the bad ones. I keep getting it backwards because the simple carbs are the ones that have a complex effect on me (i.e. they stimulate the intake of even more, and they exacerbate my diabetes and add to my weight).

        It is the complex, high fiber carbs (like green vegetables) that we need, and the simple, low fiber carbs (refined grains and sugars) who are the bad boys.

        Link: http://www.medical-library.net/sites/...

      2. re: Chino Wayne

        I agree with you... it's amazing how much I've become attuned to the inherent sweetness of food since I cut sugar and almost all white flour out of my life.

        Peanut butter is sweet. Brown rice was a revelation -- so nutty, though I know there are people who can't abide it. Red bell peppers are like candy to me.

        As much as I hate to admit it, Dr Atkins had the right idea, just bad execution. Clean yourself out for two weeks -- no bread, no sweets, no rice, no fruit -- then slowly starting adding things from the low end of the glycemic index scale, and you'll notice food is different, and you don't crave the horrible-for-you carbs.

        Someone gave me a packet of Kandy Kakes (a Tastykake confection from Philadelphia that was my favourite sweet in the world for a number of years) the other day. I took one bite and gave the rest away -- it was so sickeningly sweet that I couldn't eat it. For dessert, I had an Asian pear with a few drops of real balsamic and a twist of black pepper and it was much better -- and better for me.

        1. re: Chino Wayne

          Chino,

          How much weight have you lost, if you don't mind my asking? And/ or was it tremendously faster losing it at the beginning?

          I feel so much better and more energetic when I eat lean proteins, salads, and low-carb veggies. When I get into the carb frenzy, my appetite for pasta, bread, rice, beans, dumplings, ice cream, or Anything carb-rich becomes enormous and vicious.

          Will try the cleansing (eating low carb and not all that much) for a few days and will try to last two weeks. It's worked before, and I feel glorious when doing it, and of course shed pounds and keep them off!!

          1. re: Elise

            Since this really is getting away from the normal Chowhound discussion, please email me and I will fill you in.

            Link: http://www.indefatigable-indolence.org

        2. Most of the carbs are high on the glycemic index and are pumping a lot of sugar into our diets, sugar where you least suspect it, and thinking you are doing something good for yourself when you are doing the exact opposite. It boosts you way up and then drops you back down again and makes you hungry and craving more of those sweet (though they don't taste sweet) carbs.

          1. i find that carb feast frenzy can be broken via a careful fasting regime. it's temporary, but it will give you a good symbolic start to take it from there. bonus is all food tastes so much better after a fast.

            1. There are a few meats I can really go nuts on with no carbs required, like rare roast beef with dijon mustard or aged menonnite summer sausage. Like I'll eat a satisfying roast beef dinner and still be in the fridge for a nibble several times that evening.

              But I have the same problem with sweet carbs (not so much bread, chips or pasta). Since I became aware of the whole idea of GI, tried South Beach for a while, and permanently adjusted my way of eating somewhat, I find I am more easily satisfied with smaller amounts or no starch with my meals, but cookies etc are still a major weakness.

              1. I crave carbs; my husband craves meat. Very typical. We both love veggies too, but it's a given that at dinner, I'll eat more carbs and he'll eat more meat. A symbiotic chow marriage. I know all the stuff out there about the problem w/ simple carbs, etc., etc. but every body is different.

                I'm of normal weight for a petite 30ish woman. For me, carbs make me feel sated so I don't eat like a bottomless pit. Deprivation of something that my body craves is what messes me up physically and mentally. When I have a low to no carb dinner, I feel like I'm missing something and still a bit wanting. Having just a little rice, pasta, polenta, or couscous makes me less inclined to snack later. In fact, I rarely snack anymore and think that's a huge trap for many people. I also don't eat many processed foods anymore, and even indulgences like store-bought potato chips taste increasingly disgusting to me.

                From the Home Cooking boards, it's no secret that I love homemade ice cream, but I only eat a small scoop at a time. The better it tastes, the less I need to eat to feel sated. I guess this is to say that it's not about the carbs but about one's ability to moderate intake of anything. Sounds like your body has difficulty regulating carbs, so perhaps a "cleansing" in some healthy manner is necessary so you can reset.

                Here's something that I noticed though...the better quality produce, dairy, meat, and seafood that I buy, the more I truly revel in eating from these groups. There's a reason why I never got excited about that apple or chicken from Safeway. I get about 95% of my veggies and fruits from farmer's markets now and get giddy over eating a radish, tomato, cucumber, avocado, peach, you name it. I've always enjoyed fresh produce, but stellar stuff from the farmer's market *is* addictive and generally good for you. Best of luck w/ your weight loss goals.

                9 Replies
                1. re: Carb Lover

                  You are right about being sated with less, and truly tasting food. I believe part of the problem with the general public in American culture is that people don't realize when they are sated, and just keep going. My typical one meal a day is raw cucumber, radishes and green beans, chased with salsa, and some protein. Radishes actually can taste sweet.

                  Link: http://www.indefatigable-indolence.org

                  1. re: Chino Wayne

                    I don't think it's so much people not realizing they're satisfied - I think the quality of much of the food Americans eat is basically not satisfying - and that's why people keep eating it, trying to get the "fix" that isn't there. The fake flavors of processed food fills the stomach and taste buds in the immediate sense, but since it really doesn't resonate with the palate; you end up eating more and more because the real fulfillment of taste and real flavor isn't there.

                    And it's not just a problem of processed foods - peaches, tomatoes, apples, etc, that are in general circulation, ie grocery stores, have become flavorless too. Americans seem okay with having crappy strawberries all year long, rather than great ones for a few months. It's all part of American as nation of consumers being sold things that just make you want more. Big quantities of empty things...

                    ( I like to think of Chowhound as a revolutionary counter-culture gang of subversive eaters....it gives me hope! )

                    1. re: hattie

                      Oh, I agree on your points. The nutritonal foundatin of this country seems to now be processed foods - very bad stuff. I also agree about a lot of the produce being just subpar. I figure some of that is due to "factory farm conglomerates" "engineering" food for looks (but not taste), productive output per farmed acreage, size, and shelf life, none of which are conducive to good, quality food.

                      I also believe that today's consumers don't understand the concept of "seasons". When you can get a peach virtually 365 days a year at your local supermarket, that is not always going to be a very good peach.

                      I think it boils down to a matter of economics and commerce. The big money, in volume, to be made, is providing what is demanded by the masses. It is also a matter of efficiency of manufacturing and distribution.

                      But none of that should stop any of us who are so inclined, and able financially, to seek out and acquire those foods that are more "natural", and from teaching our children the value of eating well.

                      Link: http://www.indefatigable-indolence.org

                      1. re: hattie

                        >>> I like to think of Chowhound as a revolutionary counter-culture gang of subversive eaters <<<

                        You must not read the general board where the biggest response has to do with chains and processed foods ... and usually not in a negative way.

                        That being said, we all have our guilty pleasures and most people on the board are seeking ways to eat more creatively.

                        Your comments along with the low carb cleansing post have unfortunately brought out my inner Andy Rooney. I am possessed and Andy will not shut up.

                        I'd rather die than eat that low carb crap ... no, I mean that quite literally.

                        Better to get felled by a heart attack or something else young than live to a ripe old age eating boring food.

                        And geez, Atkins died of a heart attack anyway. Don't give me that PR nonsence about his death either. He could have gone happier munching fragrant, fresh peaches and gorging on sweet watermelon.

                        It’s been said that even Jack LaLane has his guilty pleasures. It won't be mentioned because it is hear say, but good for him. Everybody needs some little vice and the man is ninety.

                        It is really depressing ... chemical laden low-carb Atkins puddings and shakes, splenda, low carb bread, pastas, yogurt, etc. etc. etc. Unsweetened soymilk. Gag.

                        I am no one to talk, unsuccessfully being on a diet since five (really lousy genes). But then again, maybe the right person ... tried every diet, fad or not ... even in the pre Metrical days.

                        There is a lot to what you say. When eating top of the line food, I don't feel hungry. If I could afford to eat at Chez Panisse every night I'd probably be thin as a stick. Hey, there's an idea for a book, the Chez Panisse diet. Maybe AW would sponsor that. So much nicer than having Subway as your sponsor.

                        However, given that, I do have certain triggers. Baked sweets like cakes, cookies or pies make my appetite going insane. Breads and pastas don't do that, but everyone is different. However the calories in those starches are usually not worth it most of the time If choosing bread, it is going to be incredible and not some sad, dry Trader Joe’s cracker.

                        Despite battling the bulge forever, I’m incredibly healthy ... normal blood pressure and arteries so clean they could host the bobsled team.

                        Soda was eliminated decades ago and the artificial diet junk wasn’t a substitute. Good tea, coffee, water are a lot more satisfying than the swill Coke and group make. That’s not to say that now and again I won’t try some gourmet soda or something for nostalgia sake, but it isn’t often.

                        It is more likely whole oat oatmeal for breakfast. I’m a farmers market groupie buying as much top quality produce as possible. It is so rare that red meat or pork is eaten instead of fish or chicken (a recent carnitas crawl tbe exception). Eggs are eaten mostly at Easter, though there’s a weakness for omelettes with cheese when at a restaurant.

                        Except for a recent detour with some Trader Joe fig yogurt, it is top quality plain yogurt with controlled portions of fresh fruit or designer farmers market jam that is mainly fruit.

                        The most successful diet was just sticking to a certain number of calories instead of relying on magic formulas. I lost a lot of weight and kept it off for years. Unfortunately for the past few years for various reasons, I haven’t been as careful.

                        So the latest strategy is just to combine calorie counting and exercise with top of the line ingredients.

                        If drinking wine ... and a glass is scheduled every day … it's going to be above average … with all the flavor, aroma and whatever else that can be had out of that glass.

                        If it is yogurt, it is going to be the most wonderful to be found. I'm on a smoked salmon kick now and seeking the best ... ditto fruits, veggies, coffee, etc. etc. etc.

                        While trying to avoid restaurants, when eating out it will be with someone who will share a plate, or half will be eaten and the rest goes home for future meals.

                        Damn it, if I’m going to eat pasta, it’s going to be from the best restaurant in town and lovingly made by a chef direct from Italy. I refuse to eat low carb dried out pasta that’s been sitting on a shelf forever topped by metallic tasting low carb tomato sauce.

                        The bread thing is under control at restaurants. Unless it looks amazing, it is sent back. If it is amazing I have a small piece and take the rest home and freeze it. Love those places serving tapas and small plates.

                        And if indulging in desserts, it's going to be made by some master baker. Ice cream limited to those small cups of designer gelato made with top quality ingrediants.

                        I find I can be satisfied with smaller portions if what I'm eating is exquisite. I can even be satisfied with one piece of chocolate if it is the best chocolate out there.

                        I think we need balance in our diets. If we cut too much of anything, eventually the cravings kick in. That isn't to say that everything else doesn't need to be factored in ... you can't live for long on a high fat, high protein diet. There are only so many grapefruits, bowls of cabbage soup, protein bars, etc. etc. that can be consumed before the body protests. Ditto any other trend of the moment.

                        If people think they can't afford to live high on the hog, so to speak, if you are eating smaller portions, really it almost evens out.

                        This isn’t about anyone with severe medical problems and is medically supervised.

                        Despite my bravado statement that I’d rather die of a heart attack than live on a restricted diet, unfortunately it doesn’t usually work that way.

                        The medical repercussions of eating poorly don’t usually wipe you out in one lucky whack. There is the risk of living with a stroke, diabetes, blindness, etc. I’ve spent too many years watching people suffer from the ill effects of eating incorrectly for their particular needs. The most horrifying was a woman who had diabetes and couldn’t control to the sweet intake. I watched as they amputated piece by piece. So if it was a choice between blindness and a glass of wine, the wine would go.

                        However, for most people, there are not the serious medical conditions, and IMO, eating a well balanced and quality diet would be a lot better in the long run than pumping artificial junk into our stomachs. Who can say for sure that that stuff isn’t going to give you cancer in the long run?

                        However, if it works for you, it works for you. That Jared guy lost weight eating mediocre sandwiches. I’m certainly no medical expert or snake oil salesman with a good line. I can only say what works for me which is cutting calories, exercising and eating the best food I can find.

                        Apologies
                        Andy

                        Link: http://chowhound.safeshopper.com/21/c...

                        1. re: rworange

                          "You must not read the general board where the biggest response has to do with chains and processed foods ... and usually not in a negative way."

                          You're right! I employ selective perception - I blip right over the posts that don't appeal to my interests - my Chowhound is full of discussions about good chocolate or favorite food writers or ethnic restaurants. I graze on what I like - food or Chowhound!

                          1. re: rworange

                            Hi Andy, er, rworange. I believe that Alice Waters has been spreading the doctrine of the Chez Panisse diet for many years but approaching it in a much different way than the Atkins, South Beach, etc. camps. Look at all of her cookbooks and community-based projects. Eating at CP every night would be very enjoyable; however, I don't think I'd lose any weight doing it. While it's not crappy fast food, it's still restaurant food, and ultimately, it still has a good amount of calories, fat, etc. and isn't customized for any individual. I believe the true CP diet is based on lovingly shopping and cooking for oneself, ideally even growing some of your own food. Hope that doesn't sound too precious.

                            If I were trying to lose weight, I would def. cut down eating out. This may mean having to stifle one's inner chowhound or at least redirect it. Sure there are healthy options outside of the home, but the more healthy the food, the more I feel like it's not good value and that I could assemble it at home. It also seems like alot of work to figure out healthy options and advocate for such when eating out that I'd rather just spend that energy shopping and cooking. Eating out could be an occasional indulgence.

                            There are all kinds of ways that people incorporate low carb into their lives. What you outline is the extreme, yucky version that doesn't seem the least bit delicious or that healthy, really. There are naturally low carb whole foods and then there's the hyper-processed and hyper-marketed stuff. Those who want low carb w/o having to cook are most susceptible to relying heavily on those products IMO. "Cleansing" for me is about leaning towards the whole foods and reducing the processed in a gradual manner, I repeat gradual.

                            In order for me to continue my homemade ice cream experiments, I'm seriously getting back into the yoga routine today...I wish my body craved exercise as much as carbs.

                            1. re: Carb Lover

                              If I eat the USDA rec of 2000 calories per day (175lbs/6ft), it would take me 2.5 hours on a stairmaster to burn that off. No wonder people are fat! People need to eat less and exercise more.

                      2. re: Carb Lover

                        Ditto to all that.

                        I just came home from the beach yesterday. Thank God I can eat again now!

                        I spent 3 weeks trying to get in bikini shape...as the diet ramped up I cut out wine, dessert, and my beloved morning Powerbar. It was rough going through the morning without something substantial. Fruit and yogurt was starting to P me O.

                        Two days before I went to the beach, I was thinner, but still not a flat stomach. I had to go two days with no fruit or dairy. Nasty high-protein bars and thank God for Salmon and my garden tomatos. That did the trick, but I think that result is what confuses people about Atkins. It's such a temporary solution. It's my year round good diet of healthy carbs and low-fat eating that puts me in a position to be able to get bikini ready in a couple of weeks.

                        And now, I think I'll go get a bagel *wink*

                        1. re: danna

                          Yeah, going low-carbohydrate for a certain period will get rid of the bloat and make you show less weight on the scale. But I find I can only diet long-term my having some protein and some carbohydrate in nearly every meal. What does screw me up is eating simple sugar early in the day. I crave it all day long if I do that.

                          I completely agree that every body is different.

                      3. I hear you saying it's really you who craves carbs. You know, the "some of my friends..." way of projecting the truth.

                        I used to be real fat, now I'm not. I have stayed at the weight I am now (dumpy as I wanna be) for long enough to feel pretty confident that it's permanent (with God's help). So I think I can speak to your issue as well as anyone.

                        Here's how it works.
                        You can't lose weight by forcing yourself/denying yourself.
                        The child that's deep inside you will be hurt and eventually rebel. That's when you'll go out of control
                        and then hate yourself.
                        The old vicious cycle.
                        Your body has a natural balance that it wants to find.
                        It will. If mine did, any body can.

                        1)How to eat:
                        2)Only eat when you're hungry.
                        The little voice inside you says, "I'm really hungry."
                        3)Eat only what is delicious.
                        Go ahead, follow your cravings. When your body feels secure enough that it's going to get what it wants,
                        it starts telling you, "Hmm...today I want a really delicious salad. Now what would my most delicious salad have in it? Let's get THAT." Or, "God, I'd love some fresh chinese greens and shrimp, over rice. YUM!" All healthy. Sure you get dessert, but when you are really listening to your inner voice (perhaps your inner chowhound), you wouldn't think of eating in a way that made you physically or mentally uncomfortable. No, it's all about the happy, the pleasurable. And that means healthy mind and body.

                        That was a digression - back to how to eat.
                        1)Eat only when you're hungry.
                        2)Eat only what's delicious.
                        Notice how delicious each bite tastes, really enjoy it.
                        3)There will come a bite where your little voice says,
                        "That bite didn't taste quite as delicious."
                        4)Listen now, the next thing your little voice may well say is, "I guess I had enough."
                        5)Stop eating.

                        Repeat from the top when you're hungry.
                        Take a vitamin/mineral pill for insurance.

                        1 Reply
                        1. re: Niki

                          Rumor has it that it takes your brain around fifteen minutes to realize that your stomach is full. So, small portions. Don't eat in the kitchen--go to another room and sit down, so that you have to get up and go back in the kitchen if you want more. Keep nothing in the house that can be eaten without at least one preparation step, except maybe baby carrots. Use the microwave for some other purpose, like a bread safe. The more I exercise, the less I eat, don't know why.

                          That first heart attack will focus your mind wonderfully. For a while.