302454 Mon Aug 08 14:51:03 -0700 2005 53 29 Not About Food 0 1693415 ice in the past couple of months I have been in restaraunts where I have seen diners remove their shoes. At the first place, I didn't even realize it until I heard the manager asking her to put them back on, but yesterday I was at a busy coffee shop/deli, as we were waiting outside for our name ot be called and two ladies (mother and grown-daughter???) rollerbladed up, took off their skates and went inside in stockinged feet. (white socks actually). As luck would have it they were seated right across from us and dined in their socks with their skates on the floor at their side. I asked the waitress about it and she simply shrugged and said that "they do it all the time." I saw the manager on the way out and he laughed and said "Hey it's Los Angeles". I asked if there was health code violation, and he said no since they were diners and not employees and then added he thought "it is actually kind of cute". My husband and friends think it is no big deal, people are just acting like they would at home. Obviously I disagree. I am just wondering what everyone else thinks, am I a bit oversensitive, or should I walk out if I see this again? Thanks Lisa Mon Aug 08 14:51:03 -0700 2005 0 Lisa in Lake Balboa 1 1693423 Jeez, whatever happened to "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service"? I can't imagine there isn't some kind of health code violation there. Mon Aug 08 15:18:05 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Chorus Girl 2 1693430 Do you think stocking-ed feet are more of a health hazard than doggie-do brought in on the sole of your shoes? Does traditional Japanese dining violate health codes? I think the OP should loosen up a bit. Mon Aug 08 15:29:19 -0700 2005 1693423 0 Gary Soup 1 1693433 I wouldn't personally, remove my shoes in a restaurant unless it was done at the door (i.e., in a traditional Asian restaurant, damn few of which are left in Los Angeles, and in which case house slippers are ALWAYS provided). That said, I wouldn't fixate on it. I have bigger problems with people fressing at the table. (Asians eat whole banquets with two little wooden sticks and nothing is spilled. Americans use a fork, knife, spoon and loaf of bread and still end up with half the food down their shirts.) If it really bothers you, ask to be moved so you don't have to look at it, but I can't imagine walking out for that reason. Perhaps if it smelled terrible... Mon Aug 08 15:42:00 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Das Ubergeek 1 1693449 This, in my opinion, falls under one of the "life's way too short to get worked up over" categories. Mon Aug 08 17:13:57 -0700 2005 1693415 0 ladeeda 1 1693451 What is the downside of people having their shoes off? Some people may have stinky feet but if that isn't the issue, what is? I'd rather see someone barefoot than a guy with a furry back wearing a sleeveless t-shirt, but that's just me. Mon Aug 08 17:18:10 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Snackish 2 1693454 Right on, and let's don't forget those furry armpits, either. Just the thing to enjoy with my sandwich. Faded tattoos and flabby muscles make it perfect. Mon Aug 08 17:36:48 -0700 2005 1693451 0 Spudlover 1 1693452 At a coffee shop deli place? No I wouldn't have a problems at all. Is it better or worse than people wearing sandals with no socks? Mon Aug 08 17:26:08 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Peter 2 1693584 Not sure I'd have a problem with the bare sock thing either, but I definitely object to sandals with socks! One sees way too much of that inexplicable phenomenon here in Seattle! Tue Aug 09 18:39:58 -0700 2005 1693452 0 Bunny-Bunny 1 1693453 Lisa, I think some of the posters may have missed your main point. At what point are people "too casual" for the dining environment? My daughter & son-in-law just celebrated their anniversary at the local Morton's steakhouse. Reservations were Saturday at prime time, 8:00. They were dressed very well while surrounded by people in sleeveless T-shirts, flip flops, jeans and faux satin running suits. Begging the question: "Is Morton's a high end steakhouse or a low rent roadhouse?" Since the management didn't seem to care, one can assume the latter. Mon Aug 08 17:32:14 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Leper 2 1693468 The OP was talking about a coffee house/deli. Mon Aug 08 18:46:53 -0700 2005 1693453 0 peter 1 1693455 Only a skank would dine without shoes. That being said, I have never seen anyone dine without shoes. This kinda reminds me of when I was a sacker at the Grocery, and girls would come in without shoes. Black feet and all, we would affectionately refer to these girls as "loose". Mon Aug 08 17:40:40 -0700 2005 1693415 0 MidtownCoog 2 1693482 OK, Mr. Updike. :-) Link: http://www.tiger-town.com/whatnot/updike/ Mon Aug 08 20:38:18 -0700 2005 1693455 0 Laughing Goddess 3 1693491 I burst out laughing when I saw your link to the story "A&P". Thirty years ago I used to teach that story and had a job trying to explain to students why going to the supermarket wearing nothing but bathing suits raised such a hoo-hah. I should think nowadays, when everything is even more lax than it was then, the issue would be totally beyond kids' comprehension; vd the recent flap over a group of young women meeting with President Bush at the White House wearing flip-flops. But, speaking of restaurant etiquette, I have a 78 year-old friend who recently got asked to leave a nice Chicago restaurant (daytime, luncheon service) because she was wearing "athletic shoes". Her shoes were $300 Mephistos: she was pissed. Mon Aug 08 22:19:30 -0700 2005 1693482 0 N Tocus 4 1693499 Oh jeez, at 78, they may well be the only footwear comfortable for her. Would it have helped if she had a doctor's note? If she is really burned up about it, she could contact the local government consumer section or a local news station. I'd think the news would love it and the restaurant would be livid at the negative publicity. Tue Aug 09 00:03:30 -0700 2005 1693491 0 semmel 4 1693520 I am a bit surprised to hear about this; all the same, why is the price tag so relevant? $300 sneakers are still that - sneakers. If your sweatpants were designed by Dolce & Gabbana and encrusted with rubies, they are still sweatpants, and no, they are not suitable to wear to the opera. I'm not saying the restaurant was justified in asking your elderly friend to leave, but disagree with the worship of expensive sportswear as somehow more worthy of formal occasions than regular sportswear. Neither is appropriate. Tue Aug 09 10:26:13 -0700 2005 1693491 0 Sir Gawain 4 1693531 Good for the restaurant!!! $300 or $3...if they are inapropriate, they are inappropriate. If my wife beater t-shirt is a $400 Versace...can I eat in the French Laundry in it? Tue Aug 09 11:13:33 -0700 2005 1693491 0 ladeeda 1 1693465 I've been put off my chow far worse by perfume and cologne, than by feet. Mon Aug 08 18:30:03 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Shep 1 1693466 A number of years ago a group from my office and a few others decided to make a day trip to Churchill Downs and have dinner at Lynn's Paradise Cafe before returning home. One of the group was a person who avoided wearing shoes when ever she could. During the afternoon she consumed a number of mint juleps. I guess inhibition left her, because she got up from the table to go to the bathroom and walked across that floor barefoot. I was aghast. That floor really needed to be cleaned and swept. It really made me shudder to think about walking across it barefoot. Mon Aug 08 18:31:00 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Candy 1 1693472 Next time, bring something to read. It's a great way to take your mind off the affairs of others. Mon Aug 08 19:27:10 -0700 2005 1693415 0 flavrmeistr 1 1693474 Well, I certainly take off my ski boots before eating. I have several friends who request that shoes be left at the door. Yes, I think one began the policy after her baby became a crawler. It would be a nice touch if the homeowner provided slippers, as is customary in several cultures. And I am usually wearing clogs, so it is no hassle for me to slip in and out of them. In a restaurant, bare feet would be more annoying than stockinged feet. And I imagine women are often the more frequent offenders because of the insistence of many to wear "stylish" but uncomfortable shoes. What I do find really obnoxious is some guy propping up his feet on the empty next to me in a movie theater. Mon Aug 08 19:53:51 -0700 2005 1693415 0 semmel 2 1693484 I am a Realtor and often sellers request that when showing a home that upon entering we remove our shoes. I've only been in one home that provided slippers. I have never understood why someone would want sweaty damp feet on their carpeting and flooring. It is easy to vacuum up dirt or mop it up. To get other people's perspiration out of your carpting or off your floors requires shampooing or moppping. I have had people come into my foyer which is slate and see my cream colored carpet and immediately take off their shoes and I always have to beg them not to. I'd rather run the sweeper and shampoo maybe once or twice a year. A collegue told me about visiting St. Sophia in Turkey. There were layers of rugs all over the place and of course since one removes ones shoes upon entering those rugs were exposed to a lot of bare feet. She says the overwhelming odor of dirty sweaty feet is overwhelming. Mon Aug 08 21:14:24 -0700 2005 1693474 0 Candy 3 1693549 I don't think it's the dirt, it's the car oil, and other things that stain and don't come out. Tue Aug 09 12:44:09 -0700 2005 1693484 0 Liz K 3 1693555 According to friends of mine in the diplomatic corps, that is the smell of Turkey in general. Tue Aug 09 13:39:57 -0700 2005 1693484 0 flavrmeistr 4 1693572 And of human beings in general, in most of the world. Most of us on this list inhabit one of the very few parts of the planet where people even think about what we refer to as BO, much less consider it an issue...and an increasing number of those people are moving here. Better get used to it... Tue Aug 09 15:50:28 -0700 2005 1693555 0 Will Owen 5 1693598 Yeah, but they sure can cook! Tue Aug 09 22:45:11 -0700 2005 1693572 0 flavrmeistr 5 1693606 I had a doctor who was American in college who was constantly amazed at Americans' obsession with smell. Mainly b/c we try so hard to cover up smell we can often miss the early warnings of disease. She got me to stop using or even thinking about using deodarant feminine products by asking me if I'd ever considered putting underarm deodorant in my mouth. Wed Aug 10 08:27:05 -0700 2005 1693572 0 LisaLou 1 1693481 I've certainly seen things that bother me more, but I think if you feel moved to walk out, then walk out, regardless of what we think. But then make sure you mention it to the manager, or else the point is lost. Mon Aug 08 20:29:55 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Fida 1 1693483 You say LA...was it near the beach? If it's a beachside restaurant where most of the ground is covered in sand anyway, I don't see the objection at all. Otherwise, I see your point but agree with other posters that it's not worth getting to worked up about unless you could smell their feet. Mon Aug 08 21:12:04 -0700 2005 1693415 0 nooodles 1 1693503 I guess you would think that it would have been better for them to wear their rollerblades in the place? I don't know about you, but I don't usually carry a pair of shoes with me when I'm rollerblading. Tue Aug 09 07:48:29 -0700 2005 1693415 0 dinwiddie 2 1693504 Live and let live! Life's too short to worry about such trivia when you look at what's going on in the world, sorry but you need to loosen up! Tue Aug 09 08:15:15 -0700 2005 1693503 0 Lola 1 1693509 This is sort of a tangent, but along the same lines. We were on vacation last weekend and ended up eating in a tiny diner in the middle of nowhere. All of the waitresses were teenagers and, being bumpkin fashionistas, were wearing flip flops. Yuck, yuck, yuck. And their feet were not clean. Is this not a health code violation? Had there been any other place other than a gas station to eat at, we would have left. The meal was a disaster. We should have turned around and walked out the door when we saw the flip flops. Tue Aug 09 09:05:12 -0700 2005 1693415 0 MkeLaurie 2 1693524 There are very strict OSHA regulations about footwear for safety reasons, My understanding was that there are no open toes allowed in restaurants so that you don't lose a toe. from the Osha website: 1910.136(a) General requirements. The employer shall ensure that each affected employee uses protective footwear when working in areas where there is a danger of foot injuries due to falling or rolling objects, or objects piercing the sole, and where such employee's feet are exposed to electrical hazards. Tue Aug 09 10:45:39 -0700 2005 1693509 0 foodiex2 2 1693530 ??If this had been a fabulous little palm-roofed shack on Exuma, serving the freshest-caught fish in the islands, with cooling sea breezes blowing through the open walls, and the smiling island server was wearing sandals, would it then have been such an issue? Maybe a couple of rum punches before dining is the cure for "Foot Fear". Tue Aug 09 11:12:16 -0700 2005 1693509 0 Shep 3 1693561 This was not Exuma. This was Wilton, Wisconsin. Exuma would be an entirely different - and entirely acceptable - story. Tue Aug 09 14:33:44 -0700 2005 1693530 0 MkeLaurie 4 1693571 And the logic explaining this "difference" is...? Tue Aug 09 15:42:27 -0700 2005 1693561 0 Will Owen 2 1693536 Jeez, this is so ridiculous. Who BUT teenage servers in middle-of-nowhere diners should have NO restrictions placed on their footwear choices??? "Bumpkin fashionistas" or not, thong-type sandals (whether flat, a.k.a. flip-flops, or heeled) are what many elegant women in Manhattan wear in the summer too. I guess things must be way different where you are from if people are so horrified at the sight of a naked foot... Besides, thongs/flip-flops are a very healthy choice of footwear, provided the sole isn't paper-thin. They promote the use of foot muscles that remain passive in other types of footwear, are good for the toes, and don't cause fungus like closed shoes can when worn it hot, humid weather. Tue Aug 09 11:36:43 -0700 2005 1693509 0 Sir Gawain 3 1693563 Naked feet on the streets of Manhattan do not bother me. Naked feet on the streets of my hometown do not bother me. Naked feet in general do not bother me. But naked, dirty feet on people serving my food who are not a beach somehwere DOES bother me. Particularly when one of the waitresses at this fine establishment who, having no tables at the time, took one of her flip-flops off with one hand and used the other to pick some dirt off the bottom of her foot. She then replaced her flip-flop and waited for her next table. Yep, whoo. I'm a bit ridiculous about this. Tue Aug 09 14:39:45 -0700 2005 1693536 0 MkeLaurie 4 1693567 Yes, you are, because your original post was strictly about the very outrageousness of these girls' - "bumpkin fashionistas" to you - wearing flipflops AT A DINER, which, according to you, must be a health violartion. Which IS ridiculous, sorry. Tue Aug 09 15:12:42 -0700 2005 1693563 0 Sir Gawain 4 1693573 Your a bit full of it, too. And what other convenient detail did you leave out...she spread the mayo on your BLT with her toe? Tue Aug 09 15:54:33 -0700 2005 1693563 0 ladeeda 5 1693581 Thanks for making me laugh today! Too funny.. You know, what you really need to be concerned about is the footwear in the kitchen. I can't say where at the risk of outing myself, but at several three plus star restuarants in SF, I (the Sous Chef) was notorious for wearing flip flops and shorts in the kitchen, at my own risk of course! Tue Aug 09 17:24:20 -0700 2005 1693573 0 Pablo 2 1693539 I don't get it. What's unsanitary about a bare foot in a restaurant? I mean, unless the servers are picking at their toes or something, I just don't see how a naked or socked foot is more unhygienic than the sole of a shoe that has been walking on the street all day. And furthermore, if that naked foot were encased in a fancy Manolo Blahnik high-heeled sandal, would it have caused the same reaction? I think not. Maybe you'd prefer a dress code when you go out to eat. I can understand that - although it's not my personal thing. But to suggest that a bare foot is inherently unsanitary is simply ridiculous, in my opinion. Tue Aug 09 11:43:46 -0700 2005 1693509 0 Nyleve 3 1693552 AMEN! There is absolutely nothing that makes bare feet (presumably washed daily) dirtier than shoes (washed rarely, if ever). It's simply the etiquette of wearing flip flops that seems to offend people. To which I say: get over it, especially if you're dining in a casual place with country bumpkins. Tue Aug 09 13:16:57 -0700 2005 1693539 0 dch 2 1693544 "bumpkin fashoinistas"?? ROTFLMAO!!! What a pompous comment. hate to tell you, Skippy, but look around in the city sometime...there areflip-flops EVERYWHERE. They are feet. Everyone's got them. get over it. Tue Aug 09 12:13:27 -0700 2005 1693509 0 ladeeda 2 1693582 The other night this big, fat Italian cook comes clomping out of his kitchen in these ugly orange sabots, flapping thru the dining room like he’s some kind of culinary fashionista. Ugh! No more Babbo for the Grubs! Tue Aug 09 18:12:36 -0700 2005 1693509 0 Mr Grub 1 1693541 You know, I am usually very understanding of people's issues with restaurants. Everyone has a right to their opinion. And, maybe it's just becasue I got back from dealing with some harsh realities back home, but COME ON. There are SO many things to be concerned about in this world. A couple of relaxed people not wearing shoes in a casual deli shouldn't be one of them. If you need a place to vent your concern and irritation, go volunteer at a battered women's shelter or something - put it to good use. Tue Aug 09 11:52:30 -0700 2005 1693415 0 MM 2 1693542 Volunteer at a battered women's shelter or something? Oy Vey! Tue Aug 09 11:59:05 -0700 2005 1693541 0 MidtownCoog 3 1693546 Ha ha...sorry, I guess I got a little too into it : ) Tue Aug 09 12:33:57 -0700 2005 1693542 0 MM 1 1693564 Hi Lisa, It surprised me that you received so many negative comments from Hounds about the two ladies who entered a coffee shop in stockinged feet. Here's my take on this: Although people dining in socks wouldn't bother me personally, for their own SAFETY I think they should keep their shoes on - whether the footwear is a sandal, sneaker, or regular shoe. These women didn't know what sharp objects were on the floor that could have pierced their feet and they were putting themselves at risk and I'm sure the coffee shop owners didn't have insurance to cover this kind of liability. Let's then go another step further and walk into the bathroom in stockinged feet and yuck - the bathroom floor is icky! Get the picture Hounds? Get those shoes on! I believe in the live-and-let live attitude too but I also believe in safety first and yes - I don't want to look at someone's socks while I'm enjoying my food. Save it for the locker room ladies and gents! Now...I love to slowly remove my girlfriend's sexy sandals but that's another story (big wink!) Tue Aug 09 14:42:03 -0700 2005 1693415 0 Flynn 2 1693577 It IS an important safety issue. Glasses and plates get dropped all the time in restaurants, and shards get tracked all over the place! I used to step on glass AT HOME that my fiance would have stuck to his shoes from the restaurants he worked at. If I were the owner/manager of the coffee shop, I would not allow anyone in who did not have shoes on. If those women want to grab a bite to eat while rollerblading, they should carry some type of footwear with them. Tue Aug 09 16:50:46 -0700 2005 1693564 0 gina 3 1693591 ...like a pair of flip-flops, maybe? Tue Aug 09 19:32:32 -0700 2005 1693577 0 babette feasts 4 1693625 That was pretty funny... Wed Aug 10 12:27:12 -0700 2005 1693591 0 Sir Gawain 4 1693674 Exactly. :) Wed Aug 10 19:23:24 -0700 2005 1693591 0 gina 2 1696155 I diagree. I think it very attractive for women to walk in the coffee shop in their stockinged feet. They look comforable and classy as long as they are in stockings as opposed to bare feer. Sat Oct 22 18:09:19 -0700 2005 1693564 0 Mike Sullivan