301965 Mon May 01 16:01:29 -0700 2006 32 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1687128 while other people are happy with mcdonalds 6 nights a week and taco bell the 7th? is it some sort of gene, early memory of food, etc that makes a person a 'foodie' while other people dont care for the beauty that is a fine meal? Mon May 01 16:01:29 -0700 2006 0 alex 1 1687134 my 'guess" is thats its all about ones ability to get passionate about things, ie-person that doesnt get excited about a goood meal, usually doesnt get excited about good music, good art, good cars, good clothes, etc etc...its about ones ability to enjoy sensory things Mon May 01 16:28:20 -0700 2006 1687128 0 jerryg 2 1687143 I think you're on the right track--but an appreciation of good food is not just about passion but about a willingness to open oneself to new, and potentially risky, experiences (like tasting bitter melon for the first time, or trying to make a dessert souffle for one's in-laws...) In my experience, people who are passionate about food (not just snobby about it) are open-minded, roll-with-the-punches types, while the pathologically picky eaters in my acquaintance are also timid control freaks. I'm sure there's a correlation there! Mon May 01 16:45:39 -0700 2006 1687134 0 Hungry1 2 1687145 I would agree with you, except on the car portion. All i care is that it gets me from point a to point b. I guess i am just not a car person Mon May 01 16:52:57 -0700 2006 1687134 0 MV 2 1687164 Totally disagree - I have friends who are plenty passionate about, say, music or dance or nature and whatnot but not about food. Mon May 01 19:19:51 -0700 2006 1687134 0 Sir gawain 1 1687137 There's a story out there about a guy who became a major food-lover in midlife, after suffering a stroke or a brain injury. He had no previous such interest. The theory is that a certain section of his brain was awakened or changed... my own brain isn't working so I can't think of search terms to find the article but maybe somebody else will know of it. Mon May 01 16:34:12 -0700 2006 1687128 0 julesrules 2 1687141 "Gourmand syndrome." Link: http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc97/6_7_97/food.htm Mon May 01 16:40:32 -0700 2006 1687137 0 Robert Lauriston 3 1687154 I find it interesting that the journalist seemed to have somewhat of a specific compulsion, i.e. for fine dining in nice restaurants. If the trauma can truly introduce a new awakening to the pleasures of food in a person, wouldn't they also seek out those special taco trucks, pho joints, dive diners, etc. etc.? Mon May 01 18:28:39 -0700 2006 1687141 0 PolarBear 1 1687147 The person who eats at McDonald's 6 nights a week and Taco Bell on the 7th is in fact food obsessed, jut not with good food. Mon May 01 17:14:47 -0700 2006 1687128 0 ipse dixit 2 1687151 Or too LAZY and cheap to cook for themselves. Mon May 01 18:19:05 -0700 2006 1687147 0 JBC 1 1687158 I get where we are all coming from here and also know of some people, my family MD is a case in point, who loves good food but when you talk about preparation the light goes off. I don't think either he nor his wife are at all interested in cooking and the kids are too young. And I think the desire to cook and create good food takes a "creativity gene" that some people just lack. They don't know and don't want to either. What I find truly pitiful is someone who cannot feed him/herself and do it well and with a modicum of skill. And what is horrifying to me are those who are proud of the fact that they cannot cook. We've all heard it lots of times, "I don't cook" and these idiots are bragging. I think it is something you are born with I was passionate about food and cooking from the beginning according to my mother. What I think is amusing is that the food passion and the willing to be adventurous also happens with other species. I have 3 standard poodles whichh are each good eaters. My oldest you put her food down and if she is hungry she will eat until the bowl is empty. If not she comes back to it but never really turned her nose up and refused to eat what was given. My middle is pickier and no matter what is offered she has to sniff and decide if it is something she wants to eat, especially little treats and maybe it is something she has not had before my baby is the gourmand and everything she encounters is potential food right down to my DH's wedding band, a needle and thread among other tasty morsely Mon May 01 18:36:04 -0700 2006 1687128 0 Candy 2 1687185 I can't cook and I'm proud of it. Who else would patronize the restaurants? Who would coo over the delicious dishes you cook in sheer admiration? I'm proud I don't turn lovely fresh ingrediants into inedible garbage. What I find incomprehensible is why some people insist people who love food must love to cook. Using the music analogy does one need to play the piano to appreciate music. Do people pity those that can't make their own music. My first real post on Chowhound got trashed because I asked where to buy a frozen pie crust and had a zillion people berating me for not making my own ... flour, water, fat ... voila ... what kind of idiot can't make that. Four years later and I'm still bitter. People have fingers, there's the piano, why can't everyone sit down and play? Eh, I'm not all that bitter. Anyway, I really agree that food obsession crosses species. I have a cat that is a chowhound. Loves food, yet has some discrimination. The first night I had her, she ate my tiramisu when I walked out of the room. On the other hand, her sister ate to live. period. And it had better be the same thing every day or that cat wouldn't eat. In this case the fat gourmet cat outlived the skinny picky eater. So I think there is something, if not genetic, at least some physical thing that gives some people more of an appreciation for food than others. Like everything else, environmental influences determine some of it ... family get togethers, happy times associated with food. Some people are happy with McDonalds because they have never tasted good food. I stayed with a family like that where everything was frozen, out of a box (hamburger helper) or fast food. The 13 year old talked about her aunt who made weird food like "pot roast". However, I think the drive for deliciousness is part of our physical make up. If you have it, when someone exposes you to deliciousness, it is like opening a present. If you don't have it, no amount of delicious food will make you interested. Mon May 01 21:59:09 -0700 2006 1687158 0 rworange 3 1687220 I've tasted and know good food and I still like McDonald's. I wouldn't eat it everyday, but I wouldn't dine in the same upscale restaurant everyday either. Tue May 02 09:57:29 -0700 2006 1687185 0 rolypoly 4 1687236 That wasn't the point. I think I can appreciate a lot of good food and I like McDonald's. The point was that some people who eat at fast food places just have never had the opportunity to try much else. In the family I was talking about, I can verify that the aunt's pot roast was delicious. If the children in that family had that inner drive for good food, it would have been a revelation. They would have started looking beyond frozen or fast. Instead it was just weird. With my S/O's family, half are of the opinion that cheap Chinese buffets are fine dining. I have dragged these people to every level or restaurant and it was a waste of time and money and frustrating for everyone. I just take them to Hometown Buffet, Sizzler, or the Chinese buffet of choice and everyone is happy. Hey, I can appreciate these places too ... defective gene? However with my S/O and his genetic side of the family, when I bring them to someplace really delicious, it is a revelation to them and they go back. When I brought home the first baguette and the first croissants from a top-line bakery, it amazed him. His first reaction was to buy less expensive versions that he saw at grocery stores. He only did that once, and could recognize medicore from great. The other side would have scarfed down Food4Less croissants without a thought and never recognized the difference. Also, due to growing up poor, my S/O is very careful with money. However, on his own he found the most wonderful tortillas that are not inexpensive. He will pay for that extra quality. When he brings home Mexican food from wherever, it is not just good it is mind-blowing good. He is a great cook too and can turn the most mundane food into something amazing. He thought, at first, that it was amusing that I didn't cook. Now there is an involuntary wince every time he sees me turn on the stove. What can I say, for me cook is another four letter word. So there is just something in some people that makes them appreciate food more. Maybe some gene or something in the brain. Some people have more sensitive taste buds or a better sense of smell. I don't think it is any one physical thing, but a combination. And it is not something you have or don't. It is just the degree to which you have it that pushes a person more in the live to eat catagory from the eat to live catagory. Tue May 02 11:23:04 -0700 2006 1687220 0 rworange 3 1687260 rw, I apologize. No criticism intended. Certainly didn't want to imply pity. Pity is disrespectful, and I have enormous respect for you. You are the ultimate chowhound. Tirelessly sniffing out food treasures and so eloquent in describing them for us. You're right, appreciating good music has nothing to do with being able to play the piano. Yet...I don't HAVE to listen to music, but I do have to eat. 3 times a day. And feed family and friends - entertaining them with my creativity and skill is very satisfying. And since this thread is about obsession, I think I can convey how cooking validates the obsession. Thinking about food when not actually eating is a big part of being a chowhound. And boy, do I ever enjoy thinking about food. Planning, strategizing - research and development. And thinking (obsessing) about food allows me to easily forget those boring, annoying little non-food related thoughts that seem to bother non-chowhounds. And unlike some other things which give pleasure that people obssess about, thinking about food has no downside. But, if I didn't love to cook, my food thinking would have to be limited to thinking about restaurants. And thinking about what I'm going to eat the next time I go to a restaurant only goes so far. But thinking about what I want to cook, and how to make it better, is endlessly enteraining. Tue May 02 15:00:10 -0700 2006 1687185 0 Niki Rothman 4 1687263 >>> And thinking (obsessing) about food allows me to easily forget those boring, annoying little non-food related thoughts that seem to bother non-chowhounds. <<< Wow, you just saved me a lot of money in therapy. Great insight. I'm lucky or unlucky enough, depending on how you look at it, not to have a large family. Eating out for one or two makes restaurant roaming more accessible. If I had to feed a group, it would be a different thing. Sometimes the costs of cooking for two and the endless leftovers make eating out a more viable option. However, there's a lot to think about food-wise if you eat out. I actually buy cookbooks for cuisines I am not familiar with just to find out what it is I'm really eating. Then I get off into non-food realated research that never gets reported on the board because ... it's non-food related ... like learning about the history and a particular culture. Sometimes I get into learning a little about the language ... very little. Not too Chowhoundish I guess as it is not all about taste for me. Well, I better get back to working on a non-food things I've been avoiding by thinking about lunch ... and dinner. Tue May 02 15:16:30 -0700 2006 1687260 0 rworange 5 1687265 I think about restaurants as much as Niki R. thinks about cooking. And after all if you cook a wonderful meal you will give a few lucky eaters a supernal experience. If you search out restaurants and post them on Chowhound, you will give thousands of eaters many many good meals. And if you also post why you find that restaurant good, perhaps the criteria used to evaluate the food of a particular cuisine, showing how that cuisine, like any, is a glorious tapestry of history, flavor and love, you will have given many people good eating for a lifetime. Tue May 02 15:29:15 -0700 2006 1687263 0 Brian S 6 1687267 I don't think one is better than the other. All you said can be said of the recipes shared on the home cooking board. My only point was there can be alot of food related thought that goes into eating out. Tue May 02 15:42:22 -0700 2006 1687265 0 rworange 7 1687275 I agree. And I profit from reading all this thought, especially yours. Tue May 02 16:48:40 -0700 2006 1687267 0 Brian S 2 1687235 What I find truly pitiful is people getting so taken with their own specialness that they start passing judgment on others who simply don't share their enthusiasm. That they can't just be quetly pleased with themselves and leave others alone is truly horrifying to me. Tue May 02 11:15:05 -0700 2006 1687158 0 Sir Gawain 3 1687283 Ok - what's this board about? Sharing, right? Why would we bother being on here if we didn't want to learn from each other? I don't think that the MCDonald's only eaters are being insulted by us... they're NOT HERE! They're not sharing and they don't care! Every bit of info we put out here can be interpreted as spewing forth our own specialness. Well.. duh... that's what we're doing here. We find a special place, we try a special recipe, we think it's unique enough that others may not have heard of it, and we post about it. Aren't WE special... (Yes!) Sometimes we ask others about food issues that aren't directly about a place or a recipe. Some of it you learn from, some of it you ignore - that's all part of learning and sharing. We don't all appreciate everything that others put out here. That's ok. But there's nothing pitiful here at all, and we're ALL special for sharing what we know and who we are. Tue May 02 18:10:04 -0700 2006 1687235 0 applehome 4 1687292 Yeah, we are all special. :D Tue May 02 19:50:15 -0700 2006 1687283 0 Sir Gawain 5 1687334 Not when we look down on and put down others to feel special. I'm all high and mighty because I can cook and understand the complexities of food. Give me a break. I don't give a crap if something is complex or simple. If it tastes good. That's all that matters. If I enjoy scarfing down a Big Mac, don't judge me. If my cooking abilities don't go far beyond boiling water, don't pity me. Are you going to tell me that if I eat McDonalds everyday and I don't know how to cook a simple meal, I'm not special? Get over yourself. (Sir G, this isn't directed towards you by the way.) Wed May 03 10:33:48 -0700 2006 1687292 0 rolypoly 1 1687161 Well, I like good food BUT I am also the type that could eat McDonald's every day. In fact, there have been times when I have. I love it. I enjoy eating just about everything from potted meat sandwiches to filet mignon. I just plain love to eat. I think a lot of it has to do with being raised in the South, where people, for the most part, enjoy food. Plus, our family was very poor and wasting food was discouraged. Now, my wife was raised in Pennsylvania. Not that Pennsylvanians don't know how to eat and enjoy food also but she was never exposed to the wide range of veggies that we seemed to have in the South. Her dad was a plain eater - roast beef (dry), plain potatoes or a sliced tomato on a lettuce leaf. Applesauce. No seasoning in anything - and her mom catered to that. The first time my wife came home with me (as my girlfriend), my mother had fixed fried chicken, gravy, biscuits, squash, black eyed peas, cream corn, potatoes and green beans ("snaps and potatoes), sliced tomatoes, etc. etc. My wife had never even eaten a biscuit. You could see the confusion in her face. To this day, I don't go to buffets with my wife because I don't get my money's worth. BTW, I am 6'5" and 260 lbs, she is 5'0" and 108. There are just some things she won't eat... I'd say about 40% of any given food at any given time. She won't even TRY them. I can't see that. For me, I'd say there are maybe three things I don't enjoy - asparagus and wild rice, but I'll still eat them. I won't eat anything with cilantro, though. Tastes foul to me. We personify the Chowhound motto.... I live to eat and she eats to live. Mon May 01 19:07:03 -0700 2006 1687128 0 Jimmy Buffet 1 1687171 Perhaps you ought to pose that question at foodie.com. My understanding from people writing on chowhound.com is that foodies are obsessed with what foods are fashionable/trendy/cool, but that chowhounds are obsessed with deliciousness. When I first started writing here I thanked Jim Leff for the epiphany that I no longer had to feel sort of weird because cooking and eating really delicious food was so important to me. I was actually a chowhound, and it was really cool to be a chowhound. A big change in my life, as a result, is that now I no longer ever feel guilty for refusing to eat anything that isn't absolutely delicious. It's a GOOD thing. Thanks again, Jim Leff! Mon May 01 20:07:48 -0700 2006 1687128 0 Niki Rothman 2 1687179 Well said! Mon May 01 20:26:46 -0700 2006 1687171 0 liu 1 1687188 There is neither a simple nor an entirely satisfactory answer. Even within Chowhound there are certainly a wide diversity of individuals the only really uniting feature is that they are all read and respond to the questions. My own feeling is that many, although not all, feelings about food are learned through early experiences. In our family of quite diverse personalities and genetics the only unifying principle seems to be food...either home cooked or restaurant. While it may be appealing to think of our interest in food as evidence of high intelligence, passion and open-mindedness there are many folks with all those qualities who just do not care that much about what they eat. I believe that one of the charms of cooking is that it is something we can control in this largely uncontrollable universe. We can become "passionate" about various restaurants because, quite frankly, there is no "risk" in arguing about restaurants; politics, religion and the geopolitical situation are infinitely more important yet more frustrating and depressing to consider. Dining and cooking are some of my great joys but contrary to some of the previous answers I am probably not what is described as a "passionate free spirit" in other spheres of my life. And I do not think I could ever use the terms " a lot of yum" or "deliciousness." And yes, I am a bit of a curmudgeon...but part of my point is that I do not think there is a simple answer to the question. Mon May 01 22:51:01 -0700 2006 1687128 0 Karl 1 1687192 I think for myself, there's just something about satisfyingly good fare, and the whole experience (expectation plays a large part of it too) of trying out a place, including those others have gushed about and some hidden gems I have found myself. Food and enjoying food is simply a great feeling. A lot of people ask why I'm so obsessed, when in a few hours, it comes out the other way (not to make anything disgusting, but the obvious truth). But I guess that's the main difference between foodies and those less of; when it comes to food, we can't get enough, even if it may only last a few mouthfuls, and satiate us for only a few hours. But even this recurring need for food (since it is a basic human need in everybody), makes me love it even more, because each day is a new chance at delighting my tastebuds. I guess this need is just more heightened in some people (maybe we have sensitive tastebuds that demand more of us) - but aren't you glad to be one them? :) Mon May 01 23:12:41 -0700 2006 1687128 0 KL 1 1687194 It can't be genetic - my mom has Naugahyde tastebuds, but I'm so picky that I won't eat plastic out-of-season tomatoes even when I'm starving. (My mom has yelled at me for this very thing.) I used to think I hated green vegetables - I wouldn't eat them as a kid, because all I got were grey, soggy canned monstrosities. A high-school friend forced me to try fresh steamed brocolli, and I've been a fresh vegetable maniac ever since! Now I eat mostly organic and biodynamic food because it tastes better to me. Besides, why should you be considered "obsessed" if you like good food? There's a weird puritanical streak in North America that insists that liking something sensual - like good food - is wrong. In other cultures, like France, an "obsession" with good food is considered normal. Anne Mon May 01 23:16:17 -0700 2006 1687128 0 AnneInMpls 1 1687205 I grew up in a family of engaged cooks that valued the food they made, and of engaged eaters who cared about what they ate. My maternal grandfather and paternal grandmother, though poles apart in the personality department, were both brilliant at the cooking they did, and while my maternal grandmother could ruin a hot dog she was a drop-dead-perfect baker. Grandpa Kuntz was from a mid-Illinois Mennonite family - what you might call Reform Amish - and the production of food, from soil or pasture to kitchen, is a passion for those folks. As the only brother of three fated to wander in the wilderness of bachelorhood (he and my grandmother were divorced for twenty years, then got back together), he was forced to learn to cook well if he were to eat well, and as he could accept nothing less he became an excellent cook. My own story is not dissimilar... I remember my parents making regular visits to a store that specialized in oddball canned goods, coming home with such exotica as anchovies with capers and mock turtle soup, when I was in grade school. Although we were quite poor, we managed to have garlic wieners in real casings for our weenies-and-kraut dinners, and the rabbits my dad brought home from his hunting forays tended to become hasenpfeffer. These examples of reaching for something beyond the mundane, and outside of the demographic our financial status would seem to dictate, were all of a piece with our radio's being tuned to the Metropolitan Opera on Saturdays during the season, and to whatever classical music was available otherwise. We were strivers, and our food was something we considered important enough to be included in that striving. Tue May 02 00:56:30 -0700 2006 1687128 0 Will Owen 1 1687219 Because we're better than everybody else? :-) Let us not be too self congratulatory here. I'll make a guess that serious appreciation of food is something we're lucky enough to be born with. It can be *cultivated* in children and even adults but that doesn't guarantee that it will take. U.S. Grant once said that he knew only two songs - one was "Yankee Doodle" and the other one wasn't. All the music appreciation courses in the world wouldn't have made him into an opera lover. Tue May 02 09:18:18 -0700 2006 1687128 0 Bob Martinez 2 1687234 You may have a point there. Nobody in my family cooked or truly appreciated good food. Watching Graham Kerr when I was growing up was a HUGE influence, the passion he exuded was infectious. When he tasted the food at the end--wow--the ecstacy! My mom would listen to restaurant shows on the radio (L.A). That was probably a factor too. Tue May 02 11:10:59 -0700 2006 1687219 0 Funwithfood 1 1687278 ahhh...because it's fun? Tue May 02 17:33:27 -0700 2006 1687128 0 furryabdul