301849 Tue Apr 11 23:38:36 -0700 2006 33 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1685567 The recent discussion below talks about Burger King at great length. I got to thinking about the whole fast food culture and why we (Chow Hounds) get so vehement about it. Some thoughts, no judgements. Most all fast food is convenient when you are hungry. All succesful fast food tastes good to the target market. TV ads can bring in first time buyers, but flavor and expectations must be met to get repeat business. Comments? Tue Apr 11 23:38:36 -0700 2006 0 Gypsy Jan 1 1685568 I misspelled the subject line, I apologize. Tue Apr 11 23:46:19 -0700 2006 1685567 0 Gypsy Jan 2 1685636 Taking this one step further, once you indulge, do you have any "weird" ways to eat it? For instance, whenever I get a McDonalds cheeseburger, I put the fries on it. It's the only way I truly enjoy it. Anyone else? Wed Apr 12 13:13:46 -0700 2006 1685568 0 suburban Sandy 3 1685647 My brother, who doesn't eat meat, likes those filet o' fish things. He always does the same thing with it. Removes the top of the bun and in one swipe against the edge of the styrofoam box scrapes off the tartar sludge, which remains in the box. Then presses the thing together and consumes in about 2 bites. Wed Apr 12 14:32:44 -0700 2006 1685636 0 Niki Rothman 3 1685654 i always shake the bag a bit so that at least some fries fall to the bottom of the bag. I get some sick excitement of finding those "freebies". (Shakes head in shame) Wed Apr 12 15:24:28 -0700 2006 1685636 0 lbs 3 1685695 Are you by chance from the Pittsburgh area? French fries in a sandwhich aren't that uncommon there.... Link: http://www.primantibros.com/ Wed Apr 12 22:53:32 -0700 2006 1685636 0 susancinsf 4 1685719 No, actually I live in a Chicago suburb. This is the only burger that I do this to, and I don't know why... Thu Apr 13 10:08:06 -0700 2006 1685695 0 Suburban Sandy 3 1685739 I ask for sweet and sour sauce (meant for McNuggets) for my fries. Thu Apr 13 13:04:02 -0700 2006 1685636 0 Jenn 4 1685795 In my case, I ask for the hot (not really) mustard sauce and dip my McDo French fries in it. Mayo is also a favourite. Link: http://patechinoisco.blogspot.com Thu Apr 13 21:53:07 -0700 2006 1685739 0 Pâté chinois 3 1685784 Maybe I'm just feeding my Inner Belgian, but the only condiments I like on fries are mayonnaise and its variants, such as tartar sauce. Or Arby's Horsey Sauce, into which I dip my potato cakes... When I was at Elmendorf AFB in the '60s I used to go over to the snack bar across from the barracks late at night and get a grilled cheese and fries, then take them back to my room and stuff those greasy, slightly mushy fries into the gloppy greasy sandwich and chow down. I also weighed about 150 then... Thu Apr 13 19:29:56 -0700 2006 1685636 0 Will Owen 4 1685807 Avoiding, I hope, the occasional moose encounter. Fri Apr 14 00:30:00 -0700 2006 1685784 0 Spudlover 1 1685591 I think a huge part of the appeal for the average fast-food patron is that it is reliable. They can go to any Mickey D's in any state and get exactly the same thing. No surprises. Plus it is cheap. The food is "designed" to make you crave it if you eat it regularly (salt/sugar/fat), to appeal to the majority of the population. Not everyone wants to explore "weird" ethnic resto's to find affordable alternatives (and in a lot of geographies, there really aren't any alternatives). Wed Apr 12 08:22:56 -0700 2006 1685567 0 BeeZee 2 1685619 Fast food is not cheap and not always consistent in Manhattan. With taxes and everything it could set you off 6-7 bucks and it's plenty to get a decent meal at some ethnic hole-in-the-wall or good enough to get a great sandwich with high-quality ingredients from many deli/market and some restaurants. And most places even are not good enough for bathroom use - overcrowded, locked or out of order. I love the fountain soda from fast food joints though - for some reason fountain coke tastes different from bottled or can (maybe the same way as draft beer?), but the last time I wanted to get it at a local McD's their ice machine was broken! As you can tell, fast food joints in NY are not good for anything. Wed Apr 12 12:11:45 -0700 2006 1685591 0 welle 3 1685622 I once met someone who claimed she could never find a soda as good as those served by fast food joints in Edmond, Oklahoma. I asked around and was told that different places put different amounts of syrup in their soda. Apparently, the places in Edmond put a LOT of syrup in, yielding a very rich, sickeningly sweet drink. I found her a pizza place in Tulsa that used a lot of syrup, and she was happy. Perhaps the fact that the syrup is put in when the drink is made makes it better than canned. This is true of draft root beer. Wed Apr 12 12:28:54 -0700 2006 1685619 0 Brian S. 4 1685629 uh-huh! thanks for enlightening me. though I find fountain soda less sweet, but it's probably all in my mind. Wed Apr 12 12:57:19 -0700 2006 1685622 0 welle 3 1685665 Ok, a couple of things regarding the sodas. First of all, with Diet Coke, fountain sodas se a different sweetener from what's in the bottles and cans. Now, here's the interesting one...according to my sister (whose husband is employed by a former VERY high ranking McD's exec), McD's has a different syrup formulation from Coke for their beverages that any other place. My sis majorly prefers Diet Coke from McD's and says she can absolutely taste the difference. Wed Apr 12 17:17:07 -0700 2006 1685619 0 RSMBob 1 1685594 Some things are better from fast food than what I can make. A few examples: Chick-Fil-A; The best chicken sandwich on the planet. Bojangles: Buiscits and fried chicken. Churches: Fried Chicken Wed Apr 12 09:43:13 -0700 2006 1685567 0 BlueHerons 1 1685617 Not only is the food consistent throughout all the locations, but everyone will be treated in the same way, so it's egalitarian. I think Americans love that. Wed Apr 12 11:51:21 -0700 2006 1685567 0 jillp 2 1685649 andy warhol devotes a whole chapter in one of his books (philosophy a-z, i think) on the nature of, and his fascination with, mass produced foods. i remember him being amazed that both he and liz taylor drank the same exact coke. there was no 'elite' coca-cola. i, for one, love wendy's chili and have been known to eat a burger king veggie burger or two. Wed Apr 12 14:45:55 -0700 2006 1685617 0 bryanj 1 1685620 I think there are a lot of reasons why people eat fast food. It starts with kids. The only time in my life I ate fast food with any sort of regularity is when my kids were small. They were drawn in by the commercials and the toys you get with the meal. I also ate fast food when I had a job that kept my on the road. We used to joke that Thomas Bros maps (way before the Internet maps) should have bells and arches and crowns and clowns to let drivers know which freeway off ramps lead to lunch. So, it was convenient and fast. If I knew then what I knew now, it would have been an opportunity to explore the chow all over the county. But it was really fast and really cheap and those things were important then. It wasn't always bad. I remember 35 years ago when I first tried fast food, we thought quarter pounders and McDonald's french fries were good. I think they were of much higher quality then. It's a habit forged in high school, when hanging out at the fast food is a way of life. Lots of people of my generation worked fast food jobs growing up. As some point, we stop being interested in fast food. You know, I'm more likely to eat in a fast food restaurant than I am to listen to top 40 radio. My search for deliciousness in music is probably more pronounced than my search for good food. But lots of people listen to the top 40. That's why it's the top 40. But most people are cool with listening to Britney or J Lo. Probably some people on this board who are vehement about never eating fast food and making every meal count won't even get why I would equate Clay Aiken or Jessica Simpson with Jack in the Box and Carl's Jr. And just like I can admit that a Subway sandwich or a Jack in the Box taco hit the spot once in a while, I can admit that Kelly Clarkson is pretty cool, even if she is top 40. Wed Apr 12 12:14:58 -0700 2006 1685567 0 PaulF 2 1685683 i'm really curious to know how much fast food has changed in terms of quality over the past few years. i remember when i was a kid that you could get this tray of burger stuff and put together your own burger at mcd's. i think the only things that came together were the patty and the bun, maybe the cheese so it melted a bit. but you could choose from this personal tray that you got whether you wanted to put on that piece of lettuce, tomato or pickle. i have to admit that i'm guilty of eating mcd's every so often. there's one right by my subway stop to work and sometimes you just want that sausage and egg mcmuffin. but the only real reason i feel guilty? because i'll chow down and get half way through and feel disgusting and not want to eat another bite. it tastes good after that first bite but the second is just too much salt, fat and sugar for my tastebuds and body. otherwise it's just a craving, like everything else, good or bad. Link: http://tongueandcheek.ca Wed Apr 12 20:21:48 -0700 2006 1685620 0 pinstripeprincess 3 1685782 My first McDonald's stop was in Champaign, Illinois, sometime in the late '50s. The sign said "ALMOST 1 MILLION SOLD!" and the burgers were 15¢ each, the shakes I believe the same. Came with a bare shred of lettuce and one slice of pickle, and the K&M were in squeeze bottles on the counter. Yes, that was very cheap, but not amazingly so, as the usual price then was about a quarter. Yes, I get that craving for the sausage-and-egg McMuffin, too. I don't usually get to feeling overfed until most of the way through the second one... Thu Apr 13 19:21:29 -0700 2006 1685683 0 Will Owen 1 1685627 There's also a certain "je ne sais quoi" quality to some fast foods (words you've probably never seen used together before and may never see again). Call it the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. A really good home-cooked burger on good bread with fresh toppings is great, but sometimes it's too much--there are too many distinct tastes demanding your attention. Sometimes you just crave a greasy fast-food burger where the total experience somehow overcomes the inferiority of each component. Thankfully, it doesn't happen too often. Wed Apr 12 12:40:50 -0700 2006 1685567 0 Low Country Jon 1 1685648 "Flavor and expectations must be met to get repeat business." Not great flavor, or great expectations. Fast food flavors are limited to the trinity of American obesity epidemic: sugar, salt and fat. What expectations get met in order to assure repeat fast-food business are the same as for any addiction - that it always be exactly the same every time. This is so the critical and conscious functions of the brain can go unconsious and the reptile brain stem can be lulled into a trance in much the same way as a baby at the warm teat. Wed Apr 12 14:44:50 -0700 2006 1685567 0 Niki Rothman 1 1685704 i am an unapologetic mcdonald's lover. i think it stems from when i was little and my parents or grandparents would take us there as a treat. it wasn't a frequent occurrence; we went maybe once a month. but it was special and different from the (wonderful) food we got at home. i'll still go there for the cheeseburger and small fries maybe twice a year. i always loved Eddie Murphy's bit about being a kid and wanting mcdonald's, but mom says she'll make you a burger at home, "better than mcdonalds." it's hilarious and true. i always say that being in the mood for a cheeseburger is definitely not the same as being in the mood for a mcdonald's cheeseburger. you can't satisfy the craving for one with the other. Thu Apr 13 04:48:44 -0700 2006 1685567 0 hobokeg 2 1685957 As kids, our "treat" was "White Castle"-where you could buy them by the sack-full. I think burgers were ten cents and cheeseburgers were twelve or fifteen cents. Those low prices allowed for lots and lots of sacks, which in the cramped environment of the family truckster generated an overpowering steamy luscious cloud of freshly fried food. The feeding frenzy that ensued was primative and unforgettable. That was then this is now-about a year ago (after a thirty year break) I bought a sack. The first bite or two was delicious and brought back all kinds of happy memories. The rest of it, sadly, was salty metallic bitter and downright disgusting. It literally made me ill. On a lighter note, I can't remember ever having so much gas in my life! Talk about bio-fuel-it was relentless, unending and eventually quite comical. What the hell is in that stuff? Sat Apr 15 11:15:50 -0700 2006 1685704 0 kelvin8r 1 1685706 There's only one good excuse for fast food: when you are hung over, and you want some greasy, fatty, cheesy, food. That said, when I'm in that mindset, I'm much more likely to hit up my local tacqueria for a burrito than I am to hit McDonalds. If I eat fast food by choice, it's really not a choice; it comes in late hours on the road, when there's nothing else to eat. In such case, I look for Jack in the Box, and get the spicy chicken sandwich, with cheese (because it kind of resembles the "Chicken Supreme" sandwhich of my youth). Or, I the the tacos from said Jack. Yes, I admit, they resemble nothing like the real thing, but they are better than anything you can get from Mc'Ds after they stop serving breakfast. Thu Apr 13 06:49:17 -0700 2006 1685567 0 DanaB 2 1685727 my hangover cure food is a full monty breakfast (eggs, buttered toast, home fries) at a local greasy spoon diner or korean instant noodles at home. Thu Apr 13 11:21:44 -0700 2006 1685706 0 welle 2 1685738 There's something about fountain Cokes from McDonald's that also does wonders for a hangover. Thu Apr 13 13:01:29 -0700 2006 1685706 0 Jenn 1 1685765 there is also a market out there for Budweiser and Miller and non-dairy creamer, but it doesn't include me. Most fast food leaves a nasty aftertaste in my mouth. But I will occasionally succumb to an Arby's roast beef. Thu Apr 13 16:08:52 -0700 2006 1685567 0 semmel 1 1685894 I am unapologetically happy that fast food places form part of our culinary landscape. Would I be pleased if they were the only available option? Of course not. But I sure would miss them if they were absent altogether. (In fact, I remember driving late at night on the French Autoroute and wishing to hell there was a Denny's or some other 24 hour chain where I could get a plate of eggs and a cup of coffee; at the time, the only thing available at 2 in the morning came from a vending machine.) Generally speaking, American fast food is reasonably priced, relatively consistent from location to location, so you usually know what you're getting, and by-in-large, nutritious and tasty. Sometimes these places produce bad food, which is, of course, to be avoided, but sometimes it seems to me that the anger/disdain the chains illicit on this board and elsewhere is just irrational, elitist, and/or motivated by political beliefs I do not share. (And the sanctimonious tones in which these screeds are frequently delivered doesn't help the message much either.) As far as fast food favorites, my personal choices for best of the genre are the Double-Double, or sometimes Triple-Triple (animal style) at In-N-Out, and the Santa Fe Chicken sandwich at Carl's Jr. The fries at McD's are pretty damn good too, but they were better before the fast-food-nation-supersize-me do-gooders made them take the beef tallow out of the frying oil! Fri Apr 14 17:28:49 -0700 2006 1685567 0 David Kahn 2 1685971 I agree that these establishments have solidified a niche in our culture and lives, but I have to disagree that "Generally speaking, American fast food is reasonably priced, relatively consistent from location to location, so you usually know what you're getting, and by-in-large, nutritious and tasty." I could never call these foods nutritious, ever. Unless of course you order the salad without the dressing or "crispy chicken," or get the fruit parfaits without the buttery granola, or etc, in which case, you've adulterated the foods as they are meant to be served--unnutritious and laden with unheatlhy fats and sugars. Sat Apr 15 13:32:05 -0700 2006 1685894 0 Emme 3 1685983 Yes, well, when I say "nutritious," I mean that they contain proteins, carbohydrates and fats, vitamins and minerals. Sat Apr 15 14:43:14 -0700 2006 1685971 0 David Kahn 1 1685935 Wow, the Chowhound community blows me away. BTW, the change to the subject header is intentional. Ciao babies! Sat Apr 15 00:16:35 -0700 2006 1685567 0 Gypsy Jan