301571 Tue Feb 21 20:57:38 -0800 2006 51 36 Spirits 0 1682351 A friend just gave me a couple of hot bourbon tips. Any where-to-buy (mail order) suggestions, or other obscure brands to add to the list (my preference is less for new-fangled yuppie products than for lesser-known older/quieter ones)? George T Stagg (http://www.greatbourbon.com/antiquecollection.html) AH Hirsch (http://www.hirschbourbon.com/), but beware the last bottling is from a distillery that burned down, so the label will continue but the contents will be different. Tue Feb 21 20:57:38 -0800 2006 0 Jim Leff 1 1682352 Jim, Don't know where to get those brands, but thought I'd throw in my two cents. I've always enjoyed Rebel Yell, found it to be very smooth and tasty. A very good "drinking" bourbon, although it might not be as "obscure" as you desire. It's also pretty reasonable, about $14 for a 750 ml bottle. And it's Keef Richard's favorite. Pete Link: http://www.rebelyellwhiskey.com/ Tue Feb 21 21:12:24 -0800 2006 1682351 0 Pete G. 2 1682353 You know, my father in law had Rebel Yell one time, but also had Old Forester another night. One night I discovered O.F. and Fresca and I am not kidding - it is a great mix. While I truly stand behind the O.F. now, I don't remember the Rebel Yell for taste, but I have increased that certain bourbons are good for certain things. Turkey 101 for shots, turkey 80 and coke, jack and coke, beam never (now that I'm not in college - and on that note, a room mate and I almost bought a rooster as a pet and called it Old Fitzgerald after a particularly cheap whiskey). Anyway, I know what you're looking for, and neither Pete nor I probably answered specifically what you're looking for. I'm huge into Scotch straight, I go Irish for shots and then hate myself, and then most of the time I enjoy a bourbon - usually mixed, but with reason. By the time I'm going to have the bourbon like Bookers (I believe either Turkey or Beam refined), I might as well have Scotch - but that's just my two cents. Any way you go, enjoy the trip. Tue Feb 21 21:48:04 -0800 2006 1682352 0 Dennis S 1 1682356 Woodfords Reserve... really nice. Readily available but no one talks about it much. Runs about $25-30 750 ml and worth twice the price. Newest strange bourbon... Pogue... tastes like vanilla and coconut. Tue Feb 21 22:48:53 -0800 2006 1682351 0 JMF 2 1682491 Second on the Woodfords Reserve. A local bartender turned me onto it, now my favorite. Thu Feb 23 12:27:41 -0800 2006 1682356 0 susancinsf 3 1971880 I love the stuff too. We visited this summer. Really nice place. DT Wed Oct 25 18:12:58 -0700 2006 1682491 11291 Davwud 1 1682358 I bought a bottle of the Eagle Rare 10 awhile ago and was just having some tonight, I think it's got a bit of a metallic hint that slows it down a bit, but only at the first drink. I'm not sure about the physics of it all but it does seem to benefit from 'opening up' for awhile. Not to say it doesn't have a sweet spot, it's got a nice sort of caramel-y bit of toffee in there as well. Haven't tried the 17 yr. I've also recently tried the Willie Nelson brand, "Whiskey River" and it was good as well. Smooth but without as many interesting flavors. I've read good things about the Michter and one of those might be the next one I try (also, I think they're on sale). Pennsylvania liquor stores, though state run, seem to do a decent job of finding interesting stuff. I'll link the bourbon page below. Dax also recommended the Bookers so that's on my short list as well. We literally just had this conversation offline. He's from Georgia, I'm from Nebraska, hence, bourbon. Basil Hayden is still my guy. Smooth, interesting sweet flavors, maybe a bit too 'corn-y' for some, but I really like it. Link: http://www.pawineandspirits.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catIdent=S_Bourbon&catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&categoryId=25210&level0=25208&level1=25210&parent_category_rn=25208&langId=-1 Wed Feb 22 00:32:10 -0800 2006 1682351 0 joypirate 2 1682453 Surprised not to see Maker's Mark on there, a popular-priced bourbon that's very nice indeed, with great oaky vanilla and cinnamon. Had a twinge seeing the Evan Williams down the bottom. I'd assume that's the black label, and worth the price. I got a few bottles of the red label back in the 70s, and it was wonderful, but no more. Either out of production, or bespoke by some overseas market. Jack Daniels I don't think of as bourbon at all. It's blended whiskey, which is something else. Wed Feb 22 22:44:26 -0800 2006 1682358 0 Shep 3 1682461 bourbons I don't know; but my dad loved his old crow and coke Thu Feb 23 00:22:04 -0800 2006 1682453 0 semmel 3 1682470 Maker's Mark is in the store, but not on the website. Actually, last time I was there they had something I'd never seen before, 1.75's of Maker's Mark. Now that's a LOT of bourbon. Thu Feb 23 08:59:12 -0800 2006 1682453 0 joypirate 4 1682516 The "Family Reunion" size. Thu Feb 23 16:10:01 -0800 2006 1682470 0 Shep 3 1682478 Jack Daniels is not Bourbon, it is Tennessee whiskey, Boubon must be from Kentucky. Thu Feb 23 11:16:58 -0800 2006 1682453 0 StriperGuy 4 1682485 I was googling that lately and it appears that "Gentleman Jack" is made in exactly the same way as bourbon is made, though since it's from Virginia they don't call it bourbon. Thu Feb 23 12:09:55 -0800 2006 1682478 0 joypirate 5 1682551 The Tennessee whiskeys have a charcoal filtering stage that bourbon typically doesn't have (although I think there's at least one exception). But I'm not sure if it's required in order to call it Tennessee whiskey. Thu Feb 23 23:59:44 -0800 2006 1682485 0 Jim Dorsch 5 1971899 First of all, Gentleman Jack and all other Jack Daniels products are from Lynchburg, Tn. No where else. Secondly, the difference between bourbon and Tn whiskey is "The Lincoln Process." It is filtered through charcoal to mellow it. I'm not sure if bourbon HAS to come from Ky. I do know that "all bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon." That is courtesy of our friends at Makers Mark. DT Wed Oct 25 18:16:25 -0700 2006 1682485 11291 Davwud 4 1682514 not true that bourbon must be from ky, although that is a common misperception. see jim's festival link above for more on that topic. Thu Feb 23 16:08:39 -0800 2006 1682478 0 mrnyc 1 1682362 Jim, you probably know this already, but just in case: Stagg and Hirsch -- along with a few jillion other bourbons -- are both available at LeNell's in Red Hook. I don't think she does mail-order. But if you have a car, it's worth the trip from Queens. And hey, if you don't have a car, LeNell lives in Queens herself, so maybe she'll bring some back from the store for ya. Anyway, I'll link to her bourbon selection below. I love the history and heritage of bourbon more than I love the drink itself -- I ain't no connoisseur. That said, I'm fond of Elmer T. Lee, and the Pappy Van Winkle 20-year (never had the 23-year, which is really pricey). -- Paul Link: http://www.lenells.com/selections/whiskey.php Wed Feb 22 01:06:53 -0800 2006 1682351 0 Paul Lukas 2 1682364 You've made me a happy man! I'm loving the link. Can't wait to get down there. How could I not have known about this?? Alas, no IW Harper, though. I heard there may be a bottle in Newark, NJ... ciao Wed Feb 22 03:07:21 -0800 2006 1682362 0 Jim Leff 3 1682365 Wow...the RYE SELECTION!! Wed Feb 22 03:12:07 -0800 2006 1682364 0 Jim Leff 4 1682372 I used to enjoy Old Overholt (largely due to the price, I suppose, not to mention there didn't used to be many brands of rye available), and settled in with Wild Turkey Rye for the long run. Fortunately, I left the game before all the pricey stuff hit the market! Wed Feb 22 07:23:51 -0800 2006 1682365 0 Jim Dorsch 4 1682389 "Beer is for women, wine is for men, and rye for heroes...” -Bismarck Wed Feb 22 10:05:32 -0800 2006 1682365 0 joypirate 5 1682397 Wow, I knew it was delicious, but I didn't know it was noble! OTOH, not sure I'd want to be a hero in Bismarck's eyes... Wed Feb 22 12:11:58 -0800 2006 1682389 0 Jim Leff 5 3931007 Isn't Bismarck a herring? Does it go well with bourbon? Love Woodford reserve. Do not care much for Makers Mark. Tue Aug 05 06:42:36 -0700 2008 1682389 28638 phantomdoc 3 1682373 Of course if you put off your visit for a few months you could combine the trip to LeNells with a visit to the Red Hook ballfields. They're only about a 5 minute drive away. Wed Feb 22 07:41:18 -0800 2006 1682364 0 Bob Martinez 2 1682463 Here's even better prices....wine store in Mill Valley, CA (Bay Area) Link: http://vintagewines.biz Thu Feb 23 01:09:18 -0800 2006 1682362 0 Jim Leff 2 1682649 Didnt notice this thread till Bob Martinez told me about it tonite. Now that you have LeNell's listing, here are a couple of things about her place: 1- she does tastings from her well stocked bourbon cabinet whenever anyone comes in and is interested. She'll pour from more than 20 and educate you on all aspects of the productions; 2- she's friends with a # of producers, so the Van Winkle family, the Maker's Mark people.... have all come for weekends and brought great stuff for us all to sample. I've had excellent "white" Makers (not sold retail) that is the product before it's oaked & incredible Van Winkle's that way. 3- she has an e-mail newsletter. Get on the list. 4- as Bob M. said, she's only a couple of minutes from the RH ballfields. It's a ritual with a # of us to go there after eating. She's also just down the block from 360 if you want to go before dinner at one of the best $25 pre-fixe places in the city. Recommendations: I really think Makers Mark is the best in its price range. Go up a notch and the Van Winkle 12 year old "special reserve" is excellent. Both of these are the ones I just drink. Up again and either Michter's or Blanton's. Another notch up and there's Stagg and the better Van Winkles. Other than DiFara's, I shill for her the most. Fri Feb 24 23:26:16 -0800 2006 1682362 0 Steve R. 2 1683780 Just so you know, we've got a couple of bottles of this past release of Stagg left over at LeNells. Found a couple we had put back. We can deliver some places, just depends on where you are. Mon Mar 13 21:08:12 -0800 2006 1682362 0 Ben Peikes 1 1682366 Found this very cool photo essay about the KY Bourbon Festival, something I've long dreamed of attending. See link. Link: http://lewbryson.com/kyfest98.htm Wed Feb 22 03:14:58 -0800 2006 1682351 0 Jim Leff 1 1682382 I don't know where it fits in your selection process but if you haven't tried Blanton's you have missed the best. Wed Feb 22 08:58:52 -0800 2006 1682351 0 Tom 1 1682384 LATELY, I'VE BEEN GROOVING W/ NOAH'S MILL & THEDFORD. NOAHS MILL IS FAIRLY COMMON ABOUT $36-50 A BOTTLE. IT'S FROM A CLOSED DISTILLERY THAT WAS BOUGHT OUT BY ANOTHER (http://www.kentuckybourbonwhiskey.com) AND NOW MARKETS 4 DIFFERENT LABELS. I ALSO LIKE THEDFORD (http://www.thedford.com/home.htm) WHICH IS A LOT HARDER TO FIND. THIS BRAND IS PROBABLY ANOTHER MARKETING GUYS IDEA, BOUGHT A COUPLE OF CASKS AND PRESTO, THAT SAID, IT'S A NICE SIPPING BOURBON. MAIL ORDER: BINY'S www.binnys.com IN CHICAGO AND SAMS IN CHICAGO http://www.samswine.com CAN'T BE BEAT. Wed Feb 22 09:21:53 -0800 2006 1682351 0 MORE KASHA 1 1682390 I recently bought a bottle of J.W. Dant here in Boston, reasonably priced, pretty tasty. I also think Jim Beam Black Label (8 year), which I found for $19.99 for 1.75L is as good as any foofy bourbon out there. Link: http://www.kybourbon.com/english/pages/brands.html Wed Feb 22 10:10:43 -0800 2006 1682351 0 StriperGuy 1 1682423 I dunno if it's a yuppie product but I've always sworn by Booker's. Barrel aged, barrel strength (125 proof), and I can sip a shot straight up for an hour, reveling in the caramel aftertaste. That said, there are many kinds I haven't tried; one of my friends, for example, always recommended Pappy Van Winkle's. Wed Feb 22 17:14:58 -0800 2006 1682351 0 Brian S 2 3833162 I used to drink Bookers straight no chaser in the early 90s until Booker Knoll told me, himself that he made it to drink 2 fingers Bookers, 2 fingers branch water, no ice. Like single malts, the water opens up a whole new range of flavors. Wed Jul 02 10:07:51 -0700 2008 1682423 51743 crewsweeper 1 1682476 I've tried most of the brands mentioned so far, but for my money cheap old Evan Williams is the best all around. A full taste sour mash. Though I admit, Evan was better 15 years ago when it was 7 years old and 90 proof. If smooth is what your looking for, you shouldn't be drinking bourbon. Thu Feb 23 10:26:24 -0800 2006 1682351 0 e.d. 2 1682479 "Smooth" is ambiguous enough a term to be completely meaningless, anyway. For most people, it means mild and low-flavored (i.e. "goes down easily"). For others it means balanced. Needless to say, any fluid without stuff in it is texturally smooth. Thu Feb 23 11:34:11 -0800 2006 1682476 0 Jim Leff 1 1682504 Another good one is Blanton's. This was the first single barrel bourbon released (1984.) My husband and I like it a lot, but the price has really gone up in the past few years. It's now definitely a special event bourbon. The bottle is very distinctive -- it's round with a sculpted horse and rider on the cap. Link: http://www.blantonsbourbon.com Image: http://www.alcoholreviews.com/SPIRITS/blantons.jpg Thu Feb 23 13:43:26 -0800 2006 1682351 0 Nancy Berry 1 1682582 My favorite bourbon is Knob Creek. Excellent flavor and not too high a proof. For rye, if Pikesville is available, that's my 'everyday' rye. Not a super premium rye, but pretty darn good and always available for around $8 or so making it a great bargain. Thanks, Kevin Fri Feb 24 14:24:22 -0800 2006 1682351 0 KOK 2 1971911 Knob Creek is good stuff. I have a bottle in my cabinet at all times. Great with a cigar. DT Wed Oct 25 18:21:32 -0700 2006 1682582 11291 Davwud 1 1682723 i told my friend about this thread & after talking he and i went to lenells this weekend. he knows it and had previously gotten a bottle of maple hills there that he had enjoyed sipping, i dk which one it was. so lenell just got in sazerac 4yr rye and he got a bottle for $25(raw, fruit and wine-like notes). i went nuts and got a bottle of the classic cask 21yr rye for $80(mellow, caramel notes here). i enjoyed the visit and we had a nice rye tasting that afternoon! ps--they will pour you a taste of anything to try out. beside what we bought, they had michters 4yr out which we tried & i have had before & do not care for. pss--we stopped in at HOPE&ANCHOR for lunch. nice wet roast beast hero. boo on the otherwise nice server for her naive and idiotic hipster "i hate oh" tee shirt. Sun Feb 26 14:42:16 -0800 2006 1682351 0 mrnyc 1 1682854 I'm Canadian, living in the Mountains north of Vancouver and I've been enjoying Bourbon for many years. I've tried Pappy Van Winkle, Makers Mark, Knob Creek, Buffalo Trace and Bookers. But... it wasn't until I had my 1st taste of Labrot & Graham's Woodford Reserve that I kicked my single malt habit. As for coctails, I'm going to stick my neck out. I'm a classic martini, dark rum & coke kinda guy. Don't go for no stinkin' Chocolate Cranberry Slush Puddles, I like to taste my liquor. But it was the Manhatten that got me hooked especially when my old cocktail book mentioned Bourbon as an alternative to Rye, though I have a variation: 3 oz Woodford Reserve over ice (quality bourbon makes a big difference here). Add 1 maraschino cherry (& just a bit of the juice) and 3 dashes Angostura Bitters. Top with 1 oz Orancio (Martini's orange vermouth). Swirl, sip, smile. I will now make it my business to try the George T Stagg before I spout off on bourbon again Link: http://www.bigsmoke.ca Tue Feb 28 14:33:06 -0800 2006 1682351 0 Adam 2 1971562 Since reading this post months ago, I have been trying to find Orancio, and I just can't...Do you know if it's only available in Canada? (I'm in California) Wed Oct 25 16:47:54 -0700 2006 1682854 14838 Dave and Stuff 1 1682885 I'm Canadian, living in the Mountains north of Vancouver and I like Bourbon. I've tried Pappy Van Winkle, Makers Mark, Knob Creek, Buffalo Trace and Bookers. But... it wasn't until I had my 1st taste of Labrot & Graham's Woodford Reserve that I kicked my single malt habit. I will make it my business to try the George T Stagg before I spout off on bourbon again. As for coctails, I'm going to stick my neck out. I'm a classic martini, dark rum & coke kinda guy. Don't go for no stinkin' Chocolate Cranberry Slush Frou Frou Puddles, though I do enjoy a Mint julep on a hot day. I like to taste my liquor. My favouriite drink is the Manhatten. I was hooked when my old 1950s cocktail book mentioned Bourbon as an alternative to Rye. This is my variation: 3 oz Woodford Reserve over ice (quality bourbon makes a big difference here). Add 1 maraschino cherry (& just a bit of the juice) and 3 dashes Angostura Bitters. Top with 1 oz Orancio (Martini's orange vermouth). Swirl, sip, smile. Link: http://www.bigsmoke.ca Tue Feb 28 22:42:16 -0800 2006 1682351 0 Adam 1 2236878 Could someone tell me why people like Woodford reserve so much it is ok but Buffalo Trace to me is just as good and half the price. I have tryed many $50 bottles but always come back to Buffalo Trace. Also a bottle of bookers is real nice. When I want scotch I go for Glen Garioch. Sun Jan 28 20:49:51 -0800 2007 1682351 44331 seanroge 2 2243111 I'd say that Buffalo Trace is actually significantly better than Woodford. Booker's just burns to me. I have a bottle that I've had for almost 2 years now that I just can't seem to pawn off on folks. Tue Jan 30 14:59:54 -0800 2007 2236878 49180 jpschust 1 2255274 The A.H. Hirsch bourbons, distilled in 1974 for its former owner, Louis Forman, are from the defunct Michter's Distillery in Schaefferstown, PA, which did not burn down, but has sat idle and deteriorating since the late-'80s. The Michter's name is now put on bottlings owned and distributed by Chatham Imports of New York, which selects it whiskey and bottles it at Kentucky Bourbon Distillers in Bardstown, KY. KBD does not distill, but is owned by the family of its former distillers, the Willetts, so there is, at least, a whiskey history. But, other than the name, there is no relation between the two. Fri Feb 02 19:11:55 -0800 2007 1682351 71335 TNbourbon 1 3787532 George T. Stagg is the finest bourbon on the planet. In my view, there is Stagg, and there is everything else. It's got a huge rich flavor, beautiful dark rich color, almost cloudy and a nice sweet and smooth finish. But it is STRONG. Latest batch was 73% alcohol I believe and all the last few years have been 70%+. To me, this is truly superior to everything else out there. I haven't tried 'em all, but I've had a lot. It's made by the good people of Buffalo Trace (already mentioned here and another fine, much more reasonable price) as is Elmer T. Lee. Stagg usually retails for around $45 - 55 when it comes out, but they only make about 2400 bottles a year, and it goes fast and when it's gone, it's gone. You really have to pre-order it at most retail stores because they usually only get a very limited supply. Once it's sold out, you start seeing bottles in stores and on ebay for in the $80 - 120 price range. Good luck with that. Short of Stagg, some of my favorites (most mentioned) are Blantons (~$50) and Pappy Van Winkle Lot B (~$36). They are just a little more off the beaten path than some of the other "small batch bourbons" made by larger producers which are also quite good and more affordable and obtainable such as Knob Creek, Bookers, & Bakers. I've never really liked Makers or Woodford, but they are also widely popular and very accessible. Tue Jun 17 09:39:30 -0700 2008 1682351 94868 VNovaCat 1 3791728 I enjoy Maker's Mark, Blanton's, Woodford Reserve and Knob Creek. Wild Turkey if I happen to be low on cash. Wed Jun 18 13:09:07 -0700 2008 1682351 103418 cor 1 3861054 Maker's Mark Manhattans are a Friday night ritual for me (along with grilled NY Strip Steak and creamed spinach). I like Bulleit Bourbon with just a splash of water. At the Taddich Grill in SF, the bartender made a Derby for me with Old Grand-Dad. It won me over so much I bought a bottle ($8!) After hearing nothing but good things about Woodford Reserve several years ago, I tried it but... meh. I prefer good taste, not hype. Fri Jul 11 16:22:38 -0700 2008 1682351 21383 Johnny Pastrami 1 3887273 Love Woodford reserve. Like Wild Turkey. Hate Makers Mark. One man's opinion. Mon Jul 21 07:14:06 -0700 2008 1682351 28638 phantomdoc 2 3896411 An opinion implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute. You seem fairly closed though (I could be wrong). Are you sure that you aren't describing a preference? Thanks Wed Jul 23 22:15:50 -0700 2008 3887273 26180 Chinon00 3 3931136 You are correct! It is preference. Now I am starting to enjoy Gin and seltzer. Not to relax or get a buzz, but real flavor and refreshment. For the time being its Plymouth. Tue Aug 05 07:32:52 -0700 2008 3896411 28638 phantomdoc 1 3895750 I'm a big bourbon fan. For an inexpensive but quality drink try the previously mentioned Old Forester or Rebel Yell or Elijah Craig. For a more expensive, but incredible drink - skip Bookers and Bakers and go for the Van Winkle 12yr old special reserve Wed Jul 23 17:20:26 -0700 2008 1682351 209906 joshlane4