Do you Understand Adult Picky Eaters?

I just read a nicely written, thoughtful review on the Manhattan boards where a poster wrote "I was nervous to try it...." about a food item. Mind you, this was not monkey brains, or deep fried crickets. Heck, wasn't even sweet breads. It was a unique ice cream flavoring. Do you, clearly a hound, 'get' picky eaters? Why would trying something that is clearly edible invoke anxiety? What could possibly happen from tasting something different? I mean, you're not going to die. Seems childish to me. (Not talking about allergies/ keeping kosher.)I have seen people appear really stressed when faced with a menu that doesn't seem to have mac and cheese or chicken breast on it. Any armchair shrinks out there?

[EWSflash]

No, and I don't care to try. That's one of MY "issues"

No, I don't understand adults who are picky eaters. Many years ago, I took a trip to Mexico with a friend from college.

What I had not considered beforehand was his refusal to try anything that did not look like something that his mother prepared. The result of his child-like eating habits was that his diet consisted essentially of fried chicken, meat loaf, pork chops, and hamburgers. In other words, he had the finely developed palate of the average American 8 year-old.

So, in Mexico, we had some problems. Since I knew that he would eat steak, I advised him to order the Filet Mignon one night. His response? "I know that filet has something to do with fish, and that you're trying to trick me into ordering fish." (Actually, I guess that he had some memory of fish FILLETS, and somehow thought that "filet" was the same word.) I tried explaining what it was, but he would not buy into the suggestion. Instead, he finally ordered the pork chops. However, after one bite, he refused to eat any more. The reason? "It has a hammy taste". Gee--imagine that? Pork and ham having some resemblance!

Another night, whatever he ordered was also summarily rejected because "it has a mushroomy taste". And so it went, from Mexico City, to Taxco, to Acapulco. I definitely regretted my decision to go with this guy, and in fact, never ate very many meals with him again. It was just too frustrating to find a menu (outside of a diner) that was acceptable to him. And even when it seemed acceptable at the outset, he usually found fault with whatever he did order. The last that I heard, he now subsists largely on doughnuts.

> last that I heard, he now subsists largely on doughnuts.

What was that you mentioned about his having the finely developed palate of an 8 yo?

this is one of my pet peeves. and i feel guilty about saying this because it involves people i love dearly. one is my niece, now she's only 9 but very very picky. she visited last month and it was very difficult finding any place where she would eat. the other is my boyfriend who considers food an annoying necessary part of existence. so needless to say any food adventures i go on are solitary affairs. (if there are any gay males in the nyc city area that want to go on food adventures let me know!) asalam alekum! :)

Why does he have to be gay?? Can your boyfriend not handle you having male friends? Would a gay/bi or hetero female do?

will everybody calm down let me rephrase it: if there is anybody in the city who would like to get together occassionally and go on food adventures please email me (for example: there was recently a 'singapore chili-crab fest in brooklyn) asalam alekem :)

Woah! I think you're using the wrong term here. Just about everyone on this board is a picky eater in some way or another. Just read the posts about mustard vs. ketchup on hot dogs. We wouldn't be here if we weren't. What you're describing is a cautious or unadventurous eater. Now that's what Chowhounds are not.

Absolutely! I am picky - I only eat good, high quality food. They are limited!

i can understand taste aversions. for some reason i can't stand the taste of papaya. it tastes like what i think rotten garbage would taste like. i want to like it because it's a gorgeous, somewhat exotic fruit. i continue to try it hoping one day something in my tastebuds will change and i'll come around, but that hasn't happened yet.

i don't understand picky eaters. people who will only eat what they grew up on and anything beyond that is considered "weird". people who think they know what they like, but they really only like what they know. what i don't understand even more is why picky eaters attempt go out to eat at restaurants that have somewhat creative menus only to change all the dishes around to resemble what they're used to. "i don't think i like what comes with the scallops. can i just have them sauteed with butter and bacon?" "i want the lobster, but i don't want it with all the crap that it says it comes with on the menu. i just want a lobster tail, broiled with butter and lemon. and i want a side of butter with one of those little flames under it to keep it warm. that's the only way i'll have it." "i want the salmon, but i want it very well done with just mashed potatoes, peas and carrots. that's it." why do they even bother trying different restaurants if they're going to order the same thing the same way everywhere they go?

by the way, those were direct quotes from people i've waited on in the past.

a friend of mine from Hong Kong with a similar papaya aversion associates papaya with them being grown in yards where chickens are kept (actually grown in what chickens leave behind on the ground).

A doctor explained to me that papayin is an enzyme found in both papayas and vomit. Even the trees smell like vomit to me.

I've always thought papayas smelled like sweat. I can take them mixed in a fruit salad with some lime and mint to kill the odor, but alone I find them dull with an edge of icky. But I live in New England, so I'm guessing I'm not getting the world's best papayas here. I imagine that if the only experience I had had of apples were old, mealy, supermarket Red Delicious, I would probably have a hard time understanding the appeal of apples.

Link: http://seasonalcook.blogspot.com

I used to have that same aversion for papaya! They always look so appealing in the markets, esp when sliced and you can see all the vivid colors and the black seeds.

I've tried and tried to eat papaya over the years and it wasn't until my sister bought a box of "small" papayas from Costco(of all places) that I became a convert.

I find that the larger football to watermelon sized papaya is what I don't like, it does have that certain scent. But....smaller yellowish-green skinned papayas with salmon coloured flesh, I can eat and really enjoy.

No, I don't understand picky eaters, either. All I can say is, don't ever travel with them, as they can ruin your vacation.

I was in New Orleans this past spring with a picky eater who refused to eat at any restaurant I picked because "These places all have weird things I can't eat, like seafood or mushrooms..."

I did get her to Brightsen's one night, but only after a giant argument. The rest of the trip sucked.

Why do picky eaters also demand that YOU only eat what they like???

I'll never travel with a picky eater again.

Yes, I know what you mean. Like people who have to know EXACTLY what is in their food before they order it which rules out any kind of weird menu written in chinese which may have something bizarre in it (and dont get me started on the head-on shrimp again, which arrived on our table in New Orleans once...I was the only one happy about that). We are not talking food allergies, just a total resistance to anything. Then you get the people who won't eat meat and that rules out EVERYTHING in Spain because even the vegetables have chorizo in them.

We traveled in Italy with a couple who ate the same thing pretty much every day. They split a green salad and a spaghetti for lunch, and split a green salad and ate a steak for dinner with one glass of wine. If there was no steak, sometimes they ate spaghetti again. Now there's nothing wrong with this, but there was so much more to be had: wild boar, rabbit, ravioli in truffled sauce, fresh seafood, red wine, grappa! Once they bought oranges from a street vendor and were freaked to discover that they were - gasp! - BLOOD oranges!! I totally grossed them out by ordering a seafood soup that contained small, whole octopuses. I didn't realize it until I bit part of the head off one of the poor little guys and they groaned audibly. It certainly didn't ruin our vacation, but I felt a little sorry for them.

Sorry - my post has a problem with pronouns.

I bit the head off an octopus, and my FRIENDS groaned, not the octopus!

LOL! I'm gonna tell my English teacher friends to use that one next time they're teaching their students about unclear pronouns... :-)

I always hoped that someday I would set an example for someone! Another dubious distinction.

In 1980 I had to go on an extended business trip to New York with several other people from my office. We spent three weeks somewhere on Long Island (Garden City, I think), and then three weeks in Manhattan. While on Long Island, I decided to get some take-away from a deli, and one of the women in the group came with me.

She was completely befuddled by the array of "exotic" meats available like corned beef and pastrami. She was thoroughly grossed out by the pickled tongue sandwich I ordered, to the point that if we had not been several miles from the hotel, she would have walked rather than ride in the same car with something so horrendous to her senses.

She ended up getting a salami sandwich, on white bread naturally. She told me the next day that she could only eat half of it because the flavour was too strong!

She had never had a bagel before that trip either, and "wasnt too sure about them."

She didnt take any of my dining suggestions for the rest of the stay.

Gosh, are we the same person?

Also went to New Orleans this spring with a friend who has become exceedingly picky about her food.

I don't actually know if picky is the right word, as I believe everyone is picky to some degree, and it has negative connotations. Perhaps particular is the word we're looking for.

While she's open to trying new restaurants, she sucks all the fun out of eating out by always ordering the absolutely plainest item on the menu, with everything on the side. On the side. What a horrible refrain. And definitely, there cannot be any butter or cream used in the preparation. The leanest cut of chicken is always ordered, and any imaginary fat is sliced right off. (I once made a dish with chicken thighs, and was accused of trying to "fatten [her] up".) So on and so forth with any item presented to her. (All of this used to be accompanied by a small diatribe about how everything is always too oily or greasy, usually with an accompanied poking at said offense - at least i got her to stop that by telling her, very frustratedly one night at one of my favourite tapas restaurants in LA, that I would never eat out with her again if she kept *that up.)

Watching her scrape the sauce off her fish at Brigsten's nearly made me cry. She wouldn't order half the tapas at Marisol (so much for the concept behind tapas and sharing), Galatoire's was very nearly a wash, and please, no dessert at Herbsaint.

At least she was willing to go to all those restaurants with me, I suppose. But I don't see what the fun of eating out, especially at nice restaurants, is if you don't experiment a little.

I think the biggest thing is that if you're so particular about your food, to not impose it, and your viewpoints, upon others, because that's where the annoying factor comes in. But it's hard, and I agree - never travel with a picky eater. Unless you can come to some sort of compromise beforehand (with our vacation to New Orleans, I got to choose all the restaurants, she just chose not to get anything interesting), you'll have a miserable time.

She really doesn't sound picky- sound slike she has major issues, and maybe an eating disorder, too!

Oh boy, I just went to a group dinner last night at a Thai place, and sat across from a guy who gave incredibly detailed instructions to the waiter (no extra oil, low-sodium soy sauce, etc., etc.). Then, when he got his soup, he complained ad nauseum that it was too spicy--to the waitstaff and to anyone in the immediate vicinity. And yet he finished the whole thing.

That guy is the reason I have to plead with waiters when i want something Thai spicy and they still usually dont believe me.

Me too. Let's get him!

Thata sounds like the joke about the 2 old ladies loudly complaining to anyone who would listen about how bad their meals were and how the portions were so small too.

I have no choice but to travel with a culinarily unadventurous group of people.

But I don't eat every meal with them. I'll eat by myself gladly.

If by "picky eater" you mean making a public display of one's food aversions, I view it as an annoying way of calling attention to oneself.

A person should just discretely not partake of what doesn't appeal. I'll pass on the raw oysters, thank you, without making a fuss about it.

Yes, I agree with this post. I appreciate discrete people. I know of a picky eater who is a vegetarian and whenever we would talk food with anyone she ALWAYS made it known that she was a vegetarian (trying in vain to be vegan several days a week but still had a love for leather shoes and handbags).She would say at different situations. ”I don’t eat meat, I’m a vegetarian”… “oh I don’t eat that, that used to be alive”….”I never eat anything with a face.”

What was really annoying is when she would make negative comments about the food we were eating…..”oh the carnage”…..”death”…..and the like. She insisted during one dinner that the turkey be removed from the table and not carved in front of her. SHE WAS AT A THANKSGIVING DINNER FOR GOODNESS SAKE!

It was so annoying eating at restaurants with her when we were in larger groups. She made it so, that at times she was quietly left out of outings because she was so adamant on her vegetarian choices and variety. People liked her well enough but couldn’t take her pickiness about “what kind” of vegetarian foods she would eat, they didn’t want to deal with the food “drama” that happened every time we all had to agree on a restaurant.

It wouldn’t be so bad if she didn’t have her holier than thou attitude about it all. She always felt she was a better person because she was a vegetarian.

Now, mind you, I’ve had full time vegan friends that were so much easier to get along with and didn’t negate me for my eating choices. It was more their attitudes than their choices that made for a pleasant eating experience.

This is at least the third post about picky people ruining other peoples dinner. Only you can make someone ruin your dinner.

As unpleasant as it might be to confront that person and tell them to stop, it is more unpleasant to go along with this.

Make it clear you enjoy their company, but they need to behave themselves when eating with you and refrain from commenting.

If you are traveling with someone like this and they are bullying you ... that's what it is ... tell them you have decided to eat at a particular restaurant and perhaps it's better to dine at different places and you will meet them later.

And that includes silent disapproval. The whole 'attitude'. Not about food, but I had a former friend like that and after a few discussions, it just wasn't worth my while to be around someone like that.

People like this are not polite. I see no reason to suck it in and rise above their level and have a highly indigestible meal. Even if you have to get up in the middle of a meal and leave, do it. They certainly have no guilt about making you feel uncomfortable. If you let yourself be bullied, then don't complian about it.

Don't worry rworange.....we no longer dine with this particular person.

I wrote my post firstly to agree with Sharuf and then I got into it and it turned into a bit of a vent.

I also wrote it in hopes that the said offender(s) might happen accross that posting and realize something.

btw rworange....have you ever had to confront a vegetarian about their vegetarian beliefs? They are some of the most bitter hostile people I know. (SOME vegetarians, not all.) Maybe it's the lack of protein in their diet.

I forget who it was, but I remember seeing a stand-up comic once who pointed out that the guys working behind the counters in the vegan and health food stores never seemed to be able to grow a full beard.

The very few times I've been faced (ha ha) with Vegetarian Disapproval, I've joyfully recounted to them my tale of Apple, the baby cow...

"Apple was an adorable little cow at my grandfather's farm when I was a child, who we kids didn't get to visit as much as we would've liked. One day, my sister and I were having lunch at my grandparents' house, and my grandmother served us up some of her famous red chile stew. It was always so good, but that day it was especially tasty. My sister and I both remarked, 'Mmmm, Grandma, this stew is SO GOOD. The meat is so tender!' Grandma replied, 'Oh yes...remember Apple, the cow at the farm?' And we said, 'Ohhh no...we're eating Apple?! But she was so cute!' However, we didn't get THAT upset, because, ya know, Apple was just downright delicious!"

Only one critical veg has gotten upset with me so far. As for the others, the story just helped them realize that their comments were not going to have any affect on me, except for maybe inspiring me to tell them more grisly (ha) stories.

Some googling around for pop psychology revealed that... (to be taken with huge grain of salt):

Picky eating is not likely to be related to supertasting

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-564.html

It is possibly related to phobic or obsessive compusive behaviours

http://www.pickyeatingadults.com/index.html
(nice bit of self-invented diagnoses here from a group claiming it should be classed as an eating disorder
)
http://www.empoweredparents.com/pickyeating/pickyeating3.htm

Most food tastes are (apparently) learned

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articl...

This last article is about a study done supposedly by an anthropologist, which I am highly sceptical about as most anthropology does not work in the manner suggested, but I am prepared to keep an open mind.

The support group stories related remind me of my own (non-food)phobia, which I know to be completely irrational but it doesn't stop me from doing it.

Of course, raising the psychological issues begs the question of whether otherwise cultural issues have simply been medicalised. The poster's observation about France suggests that this is likely, as psychologisation is a common native model of explanation for Americans.

Googling 'food neophobia' will get you more articles, scientific or otherwise.

I think there is something to the phobia idea.

Case in point. A friend's husband will not eat pork. He is a meat-eating Protestant. He USED to eat pork, but several years ago went on a diet and decided that pork would be one of the foods he eliminated due to the fat content. From there, he determined he would never again eat pork, and this included bacon, pepperoni, you name it. Eventually, he stopped eating at "meat and three" type places because he feared there would be unseen pork contaminant in vegetables cooked w/ a bit of salt pork. Finally, he will not allow his wife to bring home leftovers if she has had pork, because he can't bear the thought of it being in the refrigerator.

I think he has gone far beyond picky eating into the land of neurosis. Fortunately it's not MY husband, because I would have to kill him and they would suspect me immediately.

Can I just say that I am a very picky eater - I eat only exceptional food, I am a chowhound. People who will not try foods are not picky. They are LIMITED eaters and we should refer to them that way. There is nothing picky about their behavior except the way they approach the food on their plate if they are unfamiliar with it.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I'm a very picky eater, but I'll eat almost anything. As long as it's GOOD. Top quality ingredients well prepared is what I'm demanding about.

I resent eating mediocre food.

Here's the link to the Supertaster test... very interesting!

Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbod...

Cool! I'm not sure about that test, but I'm definitely putting food coloring on my tongue and counting my number of taste buds when I get home. I can't tell where I fall -- I like spicy, bitter and differently flavored foods, but I also care very much about how it's prepared. I guess that's neither a supertaster or a normal taster but a Chowhound.

weird test - not sure what the test has to do with how many papillae there are on the tongue. I've done a test where you stain your tongue blue to see how many there are - I am no doubt a super-taster but did not come out as a supertaster on that test. I fit perfectly in these categories for a supertaster:

# Perceive all tastes as more intense than other taster types, particularly bitter tastes
# Tend to be fussy about their food and have strong food likes and dislikes
# Usually don't like coffee, grapefruit, cabbage, Brussels sprouts and spinach
# Have lots of papillae, the tiny bumps on the tongue that contain taste buds

Just not sure what my choice of restaurant has to do with that???

You can test yourself by taking blue food coloring, dabbing a teensy bit on the tongue and counting the papillae per cm. Really easy. I think anything over 25 is a super-taster.

this test strikes me as pure baloney - I test as a supertaster, yet I very much like all the foods (bitter etc) the supertasters supposedly hate.

There are degrees of sensitivity here which obviously this test doesnt pick up at all.

I actually just posted it b/c someone had mentioned it down the thread a ways, but I couldn't find it again!
I just really like to take "personality" tests...

The test seems to be focusing on psychological and social aspects of dining, when a "supertasting" is presumably totally a physiological attribute.

As I understand it, because of their extra sensitivity, supertasters tend not to like bitter, spicy and sour foods (or any extreme). What a supertaster might consider subtle a "non-super" might consider dull and bland.

This concept of "supertasters" is really fascinating to me. I had no idea that this was a legitimate area of academic/medical study. The BBC test seems too simplistic to be worth much, but seems like it's trying to capture (however poorly) the real world behavioral manifestations of different types of tasters. I came out "normal", whatever that's worth. I don't fit the supertaster profile since I like many strong-flavored foods and like most things on the "dislike" list.

It does sound like supertasting is based on genetic and biological factors, and I personally think it has to be more complex than the # of papillae on one's tongue. Sure, someone might have lots of receptors, but they may not be as sensitive overall as someone who may have less.

I read a few brief blurbs that I googled and info across sites was contradictory. One site said that chefs and sommeliers are supertasters, while another said that chefs tend to fall in the moderate/normal range. Also said that supertasters tend to dislike alcohol due to bitter notes. Seems like supertasters would be less omnivorous, which would be a handicap as a chef, I'd think. Thought it was interesting how supertasting has been **reportedly** correlated w/ certain types of disease since supertasters may avoid eating foods rich in nutrients or antioxidants. One site even said that supertasters tend to be thin since they don't like as many foods. Non-tasters reportedly may tend towards very sweet foods. Clearly, there's alot of soft science and unsupported assertions out there and more "real" research needs to be done.

If anyone can point me to seemingly scholarly or credible websites, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

PS. My husband is a molecular biologist and hasn't heard anything about this. He mentioned one lab that he does w/ students where they chew a PTC strip (sorry, don't know what it stands for) and some people taste nothing while others perceive bitterness. Has to do w/ some sort of gene. He's going to bring a strip home for me so I can test myself, and I wonder if this has any bearing on this area of supertasting...

In addition to sense of taste, sense of smell plays a big role with me. Being within smelling distance of something like ranch salad dressing or vinegar impacts negatively my enjoyment of whatever I'm eating. Most substances I dislike(vinegar or alcohol for examples), I can tolerate or even enjoy in lesser concentrations in my food than most people. I'm fairly tolerant of heat which seems to be contrary to the typical supertaster. I do like certain strongly flavored foods, but also dislike certain strongly flavored foods. Green bell peppers are an odd one for me; prepared some ways I hate them(raw, on pizza, in meatloaf) but prepared other ways I like them(in gumbo preferably chopped very fine or in something like a blended Puerto Rican sofrito.) I did score as a Supertaster in that BBC test, FWIW.

This is a bit long:

It is very fascinating and let me give you a supertasters perspective. I hate bitter, too spicy, coffee, alcohol, etc. I love love love sweet. LOVE. I'm not thin. I eat lot's of foods. While I would love to think I would make a fantastic chef, I agree with you that a great chef would NOT be a supertaster.

Some part of this supertaster business has to be about what is perceived as 'good' to the taster, as well. I enjoy many layers of flavor. I can't get enough garlic, onion, multi-layered foods - For instance I enjoyed myself thoroughly at Olive's (Todd English being known for his layer upon layer of flavors). So, the flavors that I find enjoyable, I want lot's of it.

But bitter (my tea has to be sweetened, my wine can only be dessert wine, coffee in any form, even ice cream, tastes horrible to me - but I could crawl inside a bag and coffee beans and live there just for the smell) and other flavors mentioned are just outside what I consider 'pleasant' or 'enjoyable'.

Add onto this the idea of 'mouthfeel'. I'll try to find the article but my husband recently pointed me to an article that quoted a study saying that supertasters also have a greater 'sense' of fat in foods and find the mouthfeel exceedingly enjoyable. I'll take a super rich dessert over a sweet one any day. This makes sense in many ways, I can't drink soda because it literally hurts my mouth and throat.....mouthfeel!

Like anything, there is probably no single profile but also, like anything, one good place to start is with the biology: the tastes buds on the tongue.

I've always been able to tastes things others couldn't: a certain old style teflon pan my mother would use to cook, white wine always has a vague vomit taste to me, chemicals in food, oh god, and don't get me started on the taste of red food coloring in frosting: I used to say it tasted like poison. But until I understood that I was a supertaster, I always thought something was 'wrong' with me....I was a being 'childish' about my food choices. This knowledge sort of set me free in a way.

I'm lucky that for me the explosion of flavors (aside from really spicy and bitter) are phenomenally enjoyable for me. I do find that as I get older (and lose taste buds like we all do) I am able to tolerate a bit more bitter, but not much.

Maybe by the time I'm 90 I can eat broccoli!

A lot of that seems familiar to me. Love garlic and onions. Love the smell of coffee but hate the taste in anything. Frosting with red food coloring tastes awful. Love rich sweets.

My wife's a supertaster and fits your profile to a T with two exceptions, she loves broccoli and coffee. The latter, however, I have to qualify by saying she likes a little coffee with her milk and sugar.

Very interesting, krissywats. Well, I don't see disliking broccoli as a huge loss. It's fine (and I've been recently turned onto broccoli di cecco), but there's got to be a reason people prefer it drenched in cheese or Chinese sauce. Coffee, I couldn't live w/o, but I do prefer a good dose of half and half and sugar. Black tastes terrible to me.

I think it would be most tragic to be a non-taster...

If you look around at menus, eating habits, etc., I think you'll find that most people prefer ANY vegetables drenched in oily sauces - be they cheese sauce, chinese sauces, or ranch/bleu/"creamy" salad dressings. Even platters of crudite come with a big bowl of oil-based dressing.

No reason to pick on broccoli.

That test is psychological but if you continue on through there is a link where you place a reinforcement on your tongue and dab that spot with red food colouring and count the taste buds. 30 and over in that area indicates a supertaster.

The whole supertaster thing, based on the number of taste buds a person has can't really be an indicator of anything.

While I do not doubt that there are people who have a much more accute sense of taste, the number of tastebuds a person has is largely irrelevant for one obvious reason: most "taste" is in fact smell.

If you took a peek in the nose of a supertaster and were able quantify their smell receptors, then you might have something.

As I am sure most hounds are aware, the only flavors you can taste are:
- sweet
- sour
- bitter
- salt
- Umami (glutamate)

So, while someone who had a high density of taste buds might be more sensitive to these flavors (and be overly sensitive to coffee for example), they would be no better at "tasting" (er smelling) cheese, wine, a well prepared French meal, or any of the complex flavors that make food so interesting.

I think you missed the point and how it pertains to the original post. Supertasters do, in fact experience those particular taste sensations more strongly because of the number of fungiform papillae. And because of that have an aversion to certain foods and might be considered 'picky'. Thus, bitter is more bitter and sweet is more sweet, etc. If bitter is unpleasant, you are going to avoid it.

Flavor is not simply taste and smell, there is also texture and sensations (mouthfeel) and temperature - each one plays into what creates a unique flavor. Take away the ability to detect any one of those and you lose one dimension of the flavor.

Ultimately there are MANY factors that probably play into why one might be 'picky' - supertasting is just part of it.

Totally disagree that I missed the point.

I have repeatedly read articles and descriptions of "supertasters" described as tasting savants that have supersensory skills for tasting. Invariably the "reason" for their super powers is the greater number of taste buds (fungiform papillae, the structures that house taste buds, for the pretentious) that supertasters possess.

While I am certain that some people have much more developed sense of taste then others, I dispute the fact that the sheer number of taste buds is the key issue.

While it is possible that someone with more tastebuds could be more sensitive to sweet, sour, bitter, salty, and umami, they would not be able necessarily to "taste more layers of flavor." The sense of smell would be much more important in this regard.

Finally, I do agree that "taste" is a very complex sensation involving the tastebuds, mouthfeel, and the sense of smell. Just becasue someone has a high number of tastebuds does not at all mean that they are truly a supertaster.

>>"While it is possible that someone with more tastebuds could be more sensitive to sweet, sour, bitter, salty, and umami, they would not be able necessarily to "taste more layers of flavor." The sense of smell would be much more important in this regard."<<

This is absolutely correct. The confusion is created by "taster," which implies a more sophisticated palate. In fact, I'd expect that most super "tasters" have some of the least sophisticated palates, since their hyper-sensitivity to certain flavors drowns out other sensations that contribute to taste.

Interesting, fun, and probably junk science.

But it is fun!

My dad started out as a very picky eater... he pretty much only ate spaghetti and peanut butter sandwiches. Then, he married my mom! And now he eats bleu cheese with the best of them, loves anything ethnic, etc., etc. He won't come around on the green bean thing, but that's okay!
I'm seeing the opposite happen with my best friend and her husband, and it makes me very sad. My best friend's husband is very, very picky. In fact, we just got back from vacation where we spent a couple of days with them and I realized just how picky! We looked at three restaurants menus before we found one where he would eat anything on the menu! (He eats his baked potato with only butter and looked apalled when the waiter asked if he wanted sour cream!) I was very annoyed, but it was his vacation too, and I wanted to spend time with her. Anyway, she used to be willing to try new things, but now she's starting to think like him... "oh, that's too weird for me to try!" Blech! It makes me very sad.
And now to me; I used to be picky and still am, but just in a different way. I used to be picky in the way that I didn't want to eat my veggies... (used to swallow my peas) little did I know that vegetables could taste good if you fixed them the right way! Now, I'm picky about quality. I don't care how desperate I am... I will not eat hamburger helper!!! I still have texture issues... grisle (sp?) and fat make me gag and I can't help it... that's why they call it a reflex!
I think the things that irritate me most about picky eaters is the unwillingness to try new things and letting your pickiness affect the way others eat... that's just not fair.

I find deliciousness in Hamburger Helper, especially Stroganoff or Cheeseburger Macaroni. There's nothing better with some steamed broccoli, a couple of glasses of cheap Cabernet and a bad old movie on the TV. Whoops! I just gave away my secret for those special nights when I have the house to myself!

I actually have tried it and thought it was really awful! I thought, what could be bad... it's just hamburger and macaroni and cheese, but I'm sorry, it was terrible! I threw it away... what a waste of hamburger! Maybe I tried the wrong kind... (bacon cheeseburger)

My name is Bob, I'm a Chowhound, and I'm a picky eater.

Ok, I'm not proud of it...and my mom says not getting me to eat more things was perhaps her greatest disappointment in herself as a parent. That being said, I eat PLENTY, as I really like what I like, I do all the cooking in my home, and I am trying to branch out to a few more things not for my benefit, but for my children's.

How picky?

Hamburgers and hot dogs...plain...cheese only on the burgers. No ketchup, mustard, onions, relish, mustard, etc on anything. No ketchup either on fries.

Toast - no butter
Cereal - no milk, but I'll drink a glass on the side.
Salad - no dressing (maybe a squeeze of lemon)

Very little ethnic foods of almost any type.
Good on fruits but bad with veggies.

And back to hot dogs - I like OM All Meat wieners but won't wat any other kind...same for bolgna.

No sauces except BBQ and spaghetti and pizza.

That being said, I'm very good in the kitchen and make meals not just for my own family but for others as well. In fact, 2 month or so ago I did a complete BBQ for 75 people. I make cakes, pancakes and my speaghetti and pizza sauces from scratch and try to avoid prepared, canned, pre-packaged stuff as much as possible.

I do wish I had the courage to branch out a bit more, and I think it is continuing, but so far I'm doin' ok with it. If I am somewhere where I won't eat what is being served, I try not to make a big deal of it, unlike when I was younger and used to get massively sick to avoid the meal but recovered remarkably in time for dessert.

After readng your post, I started to wonder, how can you eat this way and still call yourself a chowhound? What IS a chowhound exactly?

Well...thanks for reading my post anyways.
A chowhound can be many things, but I view it as searching out the best or unique or great value types and kinds of foods...whether it be restaurants or do-it-yourself. The chowhound webite has it's own definition linked below.

To be a chowhound doesn't necessarily mean that you have to eat or enjoy all types of food. Like I said, the areas where I do enjoy the food, I REALLY enjoy them!

Link: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/faq.html

Im not trying to harass you but why do you not like ethnic foods? Arent all foods ethnic foods? Personally i consider hot dogs to be wierd but love black pudding, isnt it all a matter of perception?

Just never had any interest in Chinese, Thai, Japanese, middle Eastern-type cuisines. Probably was too ingrained from my heartland midwest upbringing. Because I live in SoCal I have ventured ever so slightly into Mexican, and I do enjoy some "Italian" cuisines.

Just not very adventurous...and likely it's my own loss!

You are not a hound and seem to have food fear 'issues'. What are you so afraid of?

That's very harsh, telling someone they're not a Chowhound. Bob said he is trying, and that's what counts.

Besides, anyone who cooks BBQ and makes spaghetti sauce from scratch is OK in book. :)

all right, all right. I take it back. Still... someone scared of ethnic foods? come on!

the desire to seek out foods outside one's own ethnic tradition is not that common. there are not that many "ethnic" restaurants in italy or china, say, and plenty of italians never eat anything other than their own food - but we'd never claim they they couldnt be "chowhounds" for that reason.

no reason why a southerner totally absorbed to the exclusion of all else in BBG couldnt claim the label of chowhound either, or a pie-obsessed white bread middle american.

Being into the deliciousness of food, in any way is what it is about.

Does one even have the right to say another person is not a Hound? The word is versatile and means different things to different people. This is not an exclusive club. You can be uninterested in certain cuisines and still be a Hound.

Yikes, what did I do to tick you off? Hmm, would that mean a vegetarian cannot be a chowhound as well? Or maybe someone who chooses not to eat beef or pork on relgious grounds is also excluded?

I would think with my history of posting here for many years and advising and turning on friends, relatives and strangers to many places and types of food qualifies me enough...at least in my own mind.

Maybe I'm a chowhound specialist.

You bring up an interesting issue. I do like trying different foods both at home and out. But when I'm cooking, I have a tendency to always make a particular food one way. For example, while I will eat salmon any which way, when I prepare it at home I tend to always steam it. And I have a particular onion tart (pissaladiere) that I think is so perfect that I don't experiment with others which - if I did experiment - might be just as satisfying.

Does that make me less of a chowhound?

I think my issue is that having found a particular preparation that pleases me, I would be "throwing away" an opportunity to have it if I tried something else. I mean, after I've spent all that time caramelizing onions do I really want to "spend" them on, say, an onion quiche when I know how much I like pissaladiere?

Fair enough. Though would it hurt to try these foods? There are so many different cuisines that you might really love if you gave them a shot.

I am a picky eater. If I'm paying for my meal, I want it to please me.

If I forget to say that I don't like pine nuts or croutons in my salad, my bad. I don't send it back [servers aren't mindreaders], I just eat around or dump them on my bread plate.

I find my lobster, crab, and clams sweet enough on their own, so I will tell the server not to bother to bring me any melted butter. [I'll ask first if any of my dining companions would like an extra dish of melted butter.]

I don't like eggplant and have never had the opportunity of tasting properly prepared squid, but if we are eating family style Chinese, I'm sure I'll like most of the other dishes.

I've learned to take initial small portions when a dinner guest, then have seconds of those dishes I really enjoyed. And if someone is making pesto pasta, I will ask for a separate plate of plain pasta that I either eat with grated cheese or butter.

Texture is important to me. Nonsoggy dry cereaI here also. I do not like butter on toast. Yum yum yum though to a runny yolk from a poached egg soaking the toast. I love untoasted bread with either butter or jam, but not both. Or a nice salty cold meat.

I am currently [waaa!] on hiatus from restaurant meals. Even though my blood pressure tends to the low, my electrolytes are out of balance, so I'm on a low sodium, high potassium diet.

A bit exreme, but I know someone who won't eat anything thay haven't tasted before .....

Makes one wonder......

I can't answewr the most obvious question (when did this start), let alone many less obvious ones

It irritates me, but to each there own.

Meanwhile, I'm doing my part to influence the next generation by introducing my friend's children to the rule I was brought up with that I believe turned my brother and I into adventuresome eaters -- my mom always encouraged us to take one bite of something new, and gave us permission to spit it out (in our napkin, of course) if we didn't like it. Knowing we wouldn't be forced to swallow something that turned out to be repulsive to us gave us the confidence to taste. And, wouldn't you know it, I don't think I ever had the occasion to spit something out! I'm working on one kid in particular, the son of my best friend, who is a picky eater . . . keep you posted on how it goes ;-)

Mrs. Mousse's mother did the exact same thing. It worked extremeley well for her and her brother.

I came to a greater understanding about "picky eaters" living in France for 12 years.
No one ever called me before a dinner party to say "I don't eat that, my husband won't eat that"
People learn as children to try everything. and to eat what is placed before them.
That is the way I was raised as well.
Everyone has food preferences, but this has gone out of control IMO.

I do think family attitudes contribute quite a bit. My family ate a wide variety of foods and always encouraged mr to try new things, but never gave me a hard time if I didn't want something.

I also think some people may naturally be averse to certain flavors or tastes. A friend who is a picky eater with limited exposure to foods and a love of the bland meal has also had terrible and very extreme (emergency room)reactions to spicy food.

My husband really dislikes any kind of sweet foods but loves bitter flavors - I suspect the bitter does not taste quite so bitter to him but that the sweet tastes super sweet - if that makes sense.

I come from a large family- and mom cooked dinner every night. One of my siblings seemed to hate everything- as a matter of fact, my mom took him to the doctor when he was small because she did not think a child could exist on peanut butter, orange juice and pasta ( turns out they can!). The rest of us (6) liked mostly everthing. Weird. TO this day, my brother is still a picky eater, though he does eat more than PB. OJ and pasta!. OTOH, he now has two children- one adult child, and one teenager- both of whom are picky, so I think they got it by example, where I think my brother really is picky.

I have friends like that, quite a few, actually. With them, it seems their upbringing has something to do with it. I grew up in a family that ate everything and went out to eat different cuisines all the time. Trying new things was part of our daily routine. With one friend, she didn't even know what to do with a napkin at a restaurant until she saw me put it on my lap (this happen when we've just graduate from high school). Her experience of food is limited to what her mom cooked and fast food type places. Now that she's married to someone who is much less of a picky eater than she is, she's more open to trying different food. Trying new things can be scary. Even with encouragements, it takes time for someone to become more adventurous with food.

I really really want to reply fully to this post (as I AM a picky eater and would love to help you understand that) but I'm fairly certain it belongs under 'Not About Food' and I'd hate to reply and then have them ask to move it....perhaps the chowstaff can let us know.

I'm guessing that each of us could find a particular activity (or two, or a hundred) that we would never engage in, despite the fact that plenty of other people do so willingly and happily.

I have cousins who are simultaneously professional snowboarders and picky eaters. While they sit there and avoid duck blood, sweetbreads, and frog parts, I sit there knowing it'll be a cold day in hell before I strap a board to my feet and jump out of a helicopter onto the peak of a mountain. Most people around here probably wouldn't criticize me as being childish for that, but my cousins will go ahead and do it without giving the matter a second thought.

Perhaps that's a bit apples-and-oranges, but with it in mind, I don't find it difficult to accept that I can find pleasure in something that simply doesn't appeal to many other people.

Your comparison: 1/2 an oz. of a new flavor in your mouth for 10 seconds (and quickly spit out if necessary)followed by a mouthful of water VS

travelling distances in order to spend half a day on a freezing cold mountain, pushing yourself physically in front of a mountain full of people, having paid for all the equipment lift tickets, etc with the threat of breaking a limb if you are not comfortable out there.

Come on. I think that was the OP's point. What is the big deal? Why are some people so prissy / big babies?

Well, my point was really just that they don't care.

There are millions of ways out there to get your kicks. Food doesn't have to be one of them. If expanding your culinary boundaries doesn't interest you, then it's very easy to turn down something that is initially unappealing and not be concerned that you may have passed up on something good. Even if someone sitting nearby begins quivering with the urge to proselytize.

I can think of plenty of pleasurable activities, things that aren't necessarily that complicated, that most folks on these boards wouldn't try with a gun held to their heads.

I can think of a number of people who thrive on taking physical risks who are very timid unadventurous eaters. People are just different, thats all. whats a difficult, fraught challenge to you could be falling off the log simple and uncomplicated for me. its a waste judging people who are different.

some people DO behave childishly when they see or taste food they dont like. Saying ew, gross or openly spewing out food would be examples, which I have witnessed. An earlier poster's examples of quietly spitting out the offending item into a napkin is an example of an adult approach to this.

This happened to me the other day at work... I was quietly eating my lunch when the girl next to me peeked over my cubicle and said, "oh, what are you ea... ewwwwwwwww, what is that?!?" (in a very loud voice, by the way) Then, before I had a chance to say anything, "oh, they're mushrooms... that's disgusting!" What do you even say to that? I had to take some deep breaths before I responded, and even then I wasn't very polite!

A couple of people at an office where I used to work would do that, when I would get takeout Ethiopian food for lunch. So amazingly rude!

So wrong and so rude, at the same time!

==> Cow orker Rudeness <==

I worked in a cubefarm at one place. Cubes just seem to promote that type of nonsense. Nosy Nelly, my cubeneighbor, peeked her head over one lunch where I was on deadline. She asked what I had and when I told her blurted out the "Ew! That's GROSS! You're eating that?"

I grimaced and asked her in a voice filled with pain and suffering at similar volume, "Didn't that hurt you?"

"What?"

"You're incredibly tactless comment, of course. I wasn't _offering_ you any. You can make your own or buy the mold sold in the cafeteria."

Several neighbors giggled (we were into "working lunches" unfortunately) and one hissed a score.

It cured her of any future outbursts and, since I wasn't the only one she'd pulled that on, gave her a chance to grow up. (shrug)

But do you seek out snowboarding discussion forums to discuss your hesitancy?

Personally, I think way too much is being read into the original comment about the gelato. I also think that that comment was probably just used to spark discussion about food pickiness in general, not that particular instance of pickiness.

Me, I'm picky as heck. Not that is must be fancy or this cuisine and not that, but that it had better be GOOD. I'll only get to eat so many mouthfuls before I die. I don't want to waste them on mediocre food.

I know a few adults who are picky due to childhood trauma at the dinner table: verbally and/or physically abusive parents who forced them to eat foods they didn't want to eat. In one case, a person would have an involuntary gag reflex every time she tried to eat something unfamiliar. This was an extreme case, but I think that adult pickiness can often be linked to negative childhood food experiences.

Very true, Morton. Once, as a wee lad, I arrived at a Christmas party famished. Spying the buffet, I made a bee-line for the jam and slathered some on a cracker...only to discover (much to my displeasure) that it was caviar. Needless to say, I was traumatized--all the moreso since I already had a strong aversion to seafood.

Anyway, it wasn't until this year that I tried caviar again. Much to my surprise, it was delicious. The again, it was at french laundry.

I had the same reaction as a child to beer. I went up to my fathers glass and gave it a chug thinking it was cream soda. Revolting. I guess going to college made me aquire the taste. tastes change from when you are a child, most children do not like bitter food. Now I really only drink the most bitter highly hopped ales. When people dont try things because they dont like them i usually ask how long its been since they tried them and remind them of changing tastes. Doesnt always work.

Alright, I'll bite: I was a picky eater as a kid and am still a picky eater. That's because like you say, most people's tastes change dramatically from childhood to adult (your tastes buds are, sad to say, dying a little every day and you'll taste less when you're really old than you do now). But for a super-taster such as myself (more taste buds per sq. cm than the average) the tastes still remain very strong. Some things (such as what most consider spicy) actually cause me physical pain and I can't enjoy a meal that is too spicy. And bitter (like broccoli) tastes so horrible to me as to make me want to vomit. This has changed some since I was a child, but not much.

It's frustrating to hear someone, such as the OP, cast this all off as simply someone who only likes mac and cheese and chicken fingers and as if all adult 'picky eaters' are just great big spoiled children. It's also difficult to explain to someone that doesn't understand when you have a physical reaction to certain tastes you might find yourself more careful. This doesn't mean I'm not adventurous or out for the experience and frankly, no one else's business.

I am absolutely passionate about food, but i'm also careful to listen to my keen nose and if it says 'no', I stay away.

One other thought, fear exists for a biological reason - the fear won't kill you, but eating something unfamiliar actually might. Even though our brains can process the information that olive oil gelato will probably not kill us, our reaction of fear to it happens before the reasoning can.....think of us all trotting around in the woods at the dawn of man picking berries....we couldn't just eat anything we stumbled upon because we watched Gwar die from eating some berries. Those with the 'fear' existed and probably passed that on and those reactions still exist even if they aren't rational now.

Good post. I didn't realize such a high percentage of the population is supertasters. I just did a perfunctory search and looks as high as 25%.

I'm glad you liked it! Interesting about the 25% - I didn't realize it was that high. I'm seriously into food so I'm aware of my 'supertaster' status - I wonder how many aren't aware and buy into the fact that they are just spoiled or 'picky'.

I do try to try new things that used to repulse me (like now I love onions but hated them as a kid). I love the idea one poster had of telling children to take a tiny bite and they can spit it out if they don't like it: that's very validating. I had many 'gagging' experiences as a child being forced to eat foods.....no one ever thinks that that might be a supertaster kid, right? They just assume the kid is picky or spoiled in some way.

I just did the test(with the reinforcement and food dye) found on the BBC's website and found out i am a supertaster. I always knew i could differentiate tastes better than most but i never really thought about it biologically. I do love bitter foods(well except for natto, makes me gag) however unlike most supertasters. Maybe im a masochist but I enjoy the painful sensation of superspicy or bitter foods. My pickiness comes from overly processed or chemical tasting foods, which i cannot stand.

[Sparkina]

Well, slap me sideways, MV! I had a similar experience too as a wee lass, mistaking beer for cream soda and thinking "That tastes disgusting!" To this day, I don't touch booze (though I certainly am old enough) except for champagne at something like a wedding or a New Year's party, and then only a sip

[EWSflash]

I thought I was getting a big slug of water from a thermos at a family picnic when I was a kid once- it was a thermos of martini. Boy did I ever spit it out in a hurry.
I eventually got over it, though. :-)

As a child I hated asparagus & spinach (I'd gag), wasn't wild about scrambled eggs. As an adult I discovered that what I actually hated was the way my mother prepared them: the veggies were watery, the scrambled eggs had blobs of white. Now asparagus is one of my favorites, I tolerate spinach (don't relish oxalic acid foods and when cooking usually substitute chard), and when properly whipped I like even runny egg dishes. NB, my mother was a really good cook, except for these flaws and one memorably awful newspaper casserole whick included, as I recall, noodles, hot dogs, and pinapple.

Now if someone can just tell me how to get over my aversion to cilantro! So many intriguing recipes call for it; so many restaurant dishes include it.

I completely agree. I thought I didn't like vegetables at all, but discovered I just don't like them cooked until they're mushy and lacking in all flavor! Who woulda thunk?!?
Cilantro's another story... did you see the Hate Cilantro thread a while back? I keep trying it hoping I will like it, but there's no takers among my tastebuds yet!

i can understand it... sometimes, tastes can be overwhelming and cause quite a visceral reaction. i've seen several people throw up from tasting something they don't like. i'm not a fan of puking and if i suspected something might cause that reaction, i'd probably think twice before eating it, too!

I'm prone to that. I've never actually thrown up but have had several gagging situations ameliorated by downing large amounts of beverage. It's not so bad when I'm in a restaurant where I can just not eat the rest of whatever it was. I've been in some uncomfortable situations as a guest though.

i guess "several" was an exaggeration, but i have seen it happen twice and that's enough for me =) gagging is pretty bad, too. eating should be fun, not scary!

Maybe it was just a figure of speech. Sometimes I'm interested in trying something different, sometimes I just want to have what's familiar. I don't actually ever feel nervous about food. Although, I have to say, olive oil gelato doesn't quite "make sense" to me. Maybe that poster was referring to a gut reaction, a preparation for it to possibly taste disgusting? I wouldn't call it childish, more ... instinctive?

Exactly, I would be nervous too about such a combo, not because I'm picky, or because it might cause me some harm. But based on all my tasting experience, sweetened olive oil would not appeal to me (Let alone cold sweetened olive oil) and further, there is the aspect of paying money for said item. There is actually no bigger let down for me than paying $$$ for an item that tastes awful. That is the ESSENCE of why I'm a hound...

Best!

--Dommy!

The Olive Oil gelato is terrific. If you are in NYC give it a try.

I guess it's all semantics, but NERVOUS? Skeptical, yes, nervous I just don't get.

I'd just like to point out that the poster ("First Time at Ottos-Review") mentioned being "nervous" but ordered, ate and enjoyed a variety of foods, including the olive oil gelato. It was a good and interesting post and in no way did it suggest to me that the guy was a "picky eater" in any common sense of the term. If you think picky eaters are childish, fine, but I don't think it's fair to describe that particular poster in that way on another part of the board.

yes, having read the thread, the poster is certainly not the picky type that is being discussed in this thread. "Nervous" was just a misleading word choice.

Agreed - I'd be "nervous" that I was missing out on something better by ordering an unknown quantity that didn't sound quite right to me. I'll buy an odd-flavoured chocolate or cookie at $2, or a new fruit at the market, and I periodically re-try things I haven't liked in the past, when I'm feeling experimental. But if I'm having a special meal and I really don't feel like being disappointed I might skip the olive oil gelato too! It's not so much the money as the missing out for me.

The poster was talking about olive oil gelato.

I think conservatism in terms of what we are willing to put into our mouths is innate and protects us from toxins, etc. There is a whole range out there of degrees of willingness to experiment, depart from conventions and have different flavor experiences, and it is certainly possible to be a chowhound or discerning eater without accepting all of the combos pushed forward by chefs trying out new flavor combinations. There are also differing degrees of sensitivity (the taster/non-taster distinction) which can affect a person's degree of omniverousness.

On a personal level, I was able to come to love cilantro as well as wine from despising them initially, but there are still very standard combos that I dont much care for - chocolate with fruit, ice cream with pie, cranberry sauce with turkey - as wll as hard liquor, which still mostly tastes like poison to me (a few brandies and rums excluded). The idea of a normally savory ingredient (olive oil or yellow cheese, say) in ice cream doesnt particularly appeal to me either, tho I would definitely give it a try in MK's hands at Otto.

Understand 'em? Yes and no.

I understand that trying something new -- and often different -- can be very stressful when someone doesn't handle change well. Everything has its place and there's a place for everything. Order is sought over chaos and change is chaos in its rawest form. Meat and potatoes are as adventerous as these lost souls wish to go. Experience -- for experience's sake -- is just not in their character.

Do I understand why a diner with this affliction (SMILE) would consider anything out of the ordinary unworthy of even sampling? No. I dine to enjoy, not just subsist. Food is more than simply fuel and each time I try something different, I chalk it up to character-building... Especially if it doesn't kill me.

I know more than one person who have issues with texture.

I by no means consider myself a picky eater, but when it comes to certain dairy items, I have issues - don't like the taste of butter on bread, and if something prepared with butter tastes "too buttery", it turns my stomache. Ditto w/ Fettucini Alfredo, very creamy soups, etc. Only eat poached or boiled eggs other than at home, b/c the preparation varies so much with other kinds of eggs. That said, I cook & bake with butter, use cream, and cook all kinds of eggs at home. If I were in a restaurant and a menu item struck me as perhaps having a creamy buttery overload, I wouldn't order it, no matter how good the rest of it sounded.

I had no hesitation in trying the olive oil gelato - really fantastic.

But the items you list (dairy-based, especially butter, foods) are likely to turn your stomach or at the very least cause an offensive (negative) reaction. That's very different than what the OP stated.

I didn't search the board for the topic but it's been relayed that it was olive gelato. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me, either; I'd still try some if tasting was allowed. It's almost like you get to be a live participant in an episode of Iron Chef (Japan) where some exotic, very-nontraditional items are made into ice cream.

Don't know where you're located, but if you are ever in NYC - the olive *oil* gelato at Otto's (the trigger of the OP's post) is incredible. I agree that i would be less inclined to order olive gelato! And I was getting at the point that some people's perceived pickiness can be driven by factors other than the perceived oddness of a dish.

And if you don't live in NYC (which I don't), you should make your own olive oil gelato from the recipe in the Babbo Cookbook. It's divine -- though my home versions have not been as spectacular as the one at Otto (my attempts lack something in the texture department). Serve it with a drizzle of olive oil and just a couple flakes of sea salt on the top. I could never eat another flavor of ice cream and remain happy.