300616 Mon Jul 25 18:08:10 -0700 2005 34 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1671736 I think I'm going to cry... Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050725/bs_nm/food_hershey_scharffenberger_dc;_ylt=AjGrkI0Y6FHhYLAkECOpEeC573QA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl Mon Jul 25 18:08:10 -0700 2005 0 Morton the Mousse 1 1671739 Hershey's has to make one of the world's worst chocolate barss. Mon Jul 25 18:28:00 -0700 2005 1671736 0 2chez mike 1 1671753 I agree with my husband's immediate reaction: "That shouldn't be allowed!" Mon Jul 25 20:10:27 -0700 2005 1671736 0 Zorra 1 1671755 Perhaps it was a case of "be acquired or go out of business". In that case, Hershey should be looked at as a hero rather than the devil. It would be irresponsible to automatically assume that Hershey will destroy the product. Mon Jul 25 20:34:37 -0700 2005 1671736 0 SuzyInChains 2 1671765 I remember when Hershey's with Almonds was actually a good chocolate bar. That was a long time ago. They've wrecked their own products; it's hardly unreasonable to worry about the Scharffen Berger line. Mon Jul 25 22:32:45 -0700 2005 1671755 0 Christine 2 1671800 Yeah, enough of slamming Hershey's, Kraft foods, and Maxwell House. It was about time someone other than Sandra Lee stood up for them. Tue Jul 26 12:06:20 -0700 2005 1671755 0 Sir Gawain 3 1672015 I have to admit one of my favorite chocolate experiences was pulling a melted Hershey's almond bar out of my jeans pocket after a hot day of horseback riding. But back in those days I still liked hot dogs, and think both products' qualities have been downgraded since my youth. Thu Jul 28 22:43:58 -0700 2005 1671800 0 semmel 2 1671826 You make a good point. Two years ago I took a tour of Tazo Tea Co., according to our guide when Starbucks purchased Tazo they allowed them to keep their autonomy and not change their recipes, yet they had the financial benefits of being a part of a larger company. I hope this is the situation for SB. Tue Jul 26 16:03:29 -0700 2005 1671755 0 Tracy L 3 1671829 Hate to be a wet blanket, but they always SAY that and then most often the quality goes straight down the toilet. Odwalla and Ben & Jerry's come to mind. Not so sure about Tazo. Never loved it anyway. Tue Jul 26 18:26:31 -0700 2005 1671826 0 veebee 4 1671867 To me, Tazo has always been just a gussied-up sister to Celestial Seasonings, just less chemical in flavor and with nicer packaging. I have tried quite a few of their infusions (won't say teas because they are mostly not), and they just aren't very good. Their prices - while high to signify "upscale-ness" - were never justified by the quality, which is also true for the Republic of Tea, another piece of brilliant marketing and packjaging for a mediocre product. IMO Starbucks is the perfect match for Tazo. Wed Jul 27 10:58:20 -0700 2005 1671829 0 Sir Gawain 1 1671773 It is too bad to see an independent artisan being consumed. But I think Scharffen Berger is rather mediocre compared to the other high-end chocolates that are comparable in price. Next time you head to Plumpjack Noe, go one block down to Chocolate Covered and ask Jack to set you up with his favorite bars...you'll cry no more. Tue Jul 26 00:13:47 -0700 2005 1671736 0 nja 2 1671885 You think SB is inferior to any nationally available brands? If so, which ones? I've always thought SB's higher cacao % bars had better "snap" and more complex flavors (notes of cherries to me) than something like Valhrona. Wed Jul 27 14:23:48 -0700 2005 1671773 0 Spoony Bard 3 1671889 As with many things food, I think that SB preferences have a lot to do with individual tastes. SB has many distinct bitter notes and more complex bitter flavors than most chocolates. I really enjoy bitter foods and I love SB (I also love beer and white grapefruit). Many people do not love bitter flavors, so I understand why some people don't like SB. A special edition SB bar I bought last year (it was something like $8/bar!) is the single best piece of chocolate that I've ever had. Wed Jul 27 14:42:28 -0700 2005 1671885 0 Morton the Mousse 4 1671909 I think that's actually a very interesting comment. What bothers me about the SB chocolates I've had isn't so much the bitterness (which I like), but rather (at least I think) the acidity. SB chocolates have a sour taste I find unpleasant. (FWIW, I also really like white grapefruit, or at least I did in my pre-statin days.) But you may well be correct that these things are a function of personal taste. I've tried a number of high-end single bean chocolates that have a strong green olive flavor (e.g., 1er Cru de Plantation Hacienda "Los Ancones" by Michel Cluizel) that I really, really, dislike, but it's clearly not the case that these are inferior/bad products. It has to be that either people have surprisingly varied tastes in eating chocolate, or else some of these chocolates taste better in food that they do straight up (and probably both). Wed Jul 27 17:52:27 -0700 2005 1671889 0 David Kahn 3 1671890 I think SB is inferior to Valhrona, Cluizel, Cote d'Or, Slitti, Domori, Dolfin, and Venchi. Though to be honest, of that group Valhrona is my least favorite; Cluizel and Venchi, especially the former's Plantations series and the latter's 85% Cuor di Cacao, are what I reach for most often. This is for eating bars out-of-hand. I'm not much of a baker so I have no comment on SB being a better baking chocolate. -Nick Wed Jul 27 14:59:56 -0700 2005 1671885 0 nja 3 1672029 >more complex flavors (notes of cherries to me) than something like Valhrona< That's exactly my experience, and not only compared to Valhrona but to all other high-end chocolate I've tried. Now (after SB), when I try the others it's like "where's the flavor". Fri Jul 29 11:06:32 -0700 2005 1671885 0 Mick Ruthven 1 1671802 I would caution against a knee jerk anti-corporate reaction here. Sure, Sharffen Berger has perfected the mixture of cacao, cacao butter, sugar and (too much?) vanilla in their rinky-dink organization. Sure, they have created what is arguable the best chocolate made in the US and one of the best made anywhere, but Hershey has a whole army of lab technicians at its disposal. Who knows what great improvements the Hershey folks will be able to make with their access to and expertise with great quantities of corn syrup, glycerin, maltodextrin, hydrolyzed milk protein, thiamin mononitrate and wax. Better chocolate through chemistry! Tue Jul 26 12:21:39 -0700 2005 1671736 0 sku 2 1671804 Yes, we all know that vanillin is far superior to actual vanilla. Tue Jul 26 12:32:05 -0700 2005 1671802 0 semmel 3 1671849 As an aside, I've really been a big fan of the Arriba Plantations chocolate that doesn't add any vanilla at all. Great to taste the chocolate on its own terms...well maybe with a bit of toasted quinoa. Wed Jul 27 02:14:52 -0700 2005 1671804 0 Limster 1 1671830 I'm no fan of Hershey's chocolate, but I have to say, I also don't get the fanatical attachment to Scharffen Berger. To me, SB's chocolates consistently have an unpleasant sour aftertaste, and compared to other high-end chocolates, the balance of flavors is all off. In my opinion, compared say to Domori (whose Blend No. 1 is my current favorite), Valhrona, Callebaut, or Max Brenner or it's not very good eating chocolate. If it's high end American chocolate you're after, in my opinion, Guittard blows Scharffen Berger out of the water. I'll admit that I come at this from an eating chocolate point of view; I've heard a number of chefs talk about using SB chocolates in cooking, and maybe it works better in that context. Otherwise, I think the thing the folks at Scharffen Berger do best is marketing. (Interesting side question, at least to me: is the best eating chocolate always the best cooking chocolate?) Tue Jul 26 18:38:55 -0700 2005 1671736 0 David Kahn 2 1671831 You know, it might just be a better cooking chocolate. I have never been impressed until I had a cup of hot chocolate made with it and it was a whole different experience, so excellent I was thinking of giving the chocolate itself another try. Reading these posts, I think not. Tue Jul 26 18:45:49 -0700 2005 1671830 0 rworange 3 1671835 I suggest you try SB chocolate again and make up your own mind. Since I first tasted SB chocolate shortly after they opened in South SF, I tasted flavors that I had never tasted in chocolate and it's still that way for me. Chew each bite many times like your mother told you to do with all your food :-) to get the full flavor. Unless it's at a quite warm temperature in which case the full flavor is more accessible. Tue Jul 26 20:01:11 -0700 2005 1671831 0 Mick Ruthven 4 1671920 There is a fruitiness to SB chocolate. I made some of the best fudge I have ever made with it, but their bars made for eating out of hand. They are okay. This is/was great baking-cooking chocolate Wed Jul 27 21:53:51 -0700 2005 1671835 0 Candy 2 1671833 I'm convinced that Scharffen Berger is a superior baking chocolate. Besides hearing it from several chefs who've done they're own baking trials, a few years ago I attended a tasting put together by John Ash of chocolate desserts prepared using the same recipe and different chocolate manufacturers. The Scharffen Berger results had much deeper, richer flavor across the board. Guittard, our other local producer, is a wonderful couverture chocolate. Tue Jul 26 19:24:04 -0700 2005 1671830 0 Melanie Wong 2 1671848 I agree with you about the SB aftertaste as well as lusciousness of Guittard. But I never realized that it was considered high end. Here in the Chicago area, I find Guittard chips at your average supermarket but have never heard much of anything about it. It's far superior to Ghirardelli in my opinion. Wed Jul 27 02:03:12 -0700 2005 1671830 0 Kimm 3 1671926 Guittard has been selling several SKUs here in Chicagoland at that great "gourmet" outlet - BIG LOTS. Wed Jul 27 23:15:43 -0700 2005 1671848 0 jlawrence01 2 1671850 I generally agree with your assessment, but I do remember loving a "special edition" bar I once had from SB that was made to mimic the earlier chocolate bars with coarsely ground nibs. Great texture, a more raw and primal toasty flavour to the chocolate. Wed Jul 27 02:21:00 -0700 2005 1671830 0 Limster 2 1671968 I bake exclusively with SB for all my chocoholic family and friends. I've found it to be a superior baking chocolate. In my experience, it yields a better flavor than even Calleaut or Valrhona. It just may be a better chocolate for baking than for eating. Thu Jul 28 13:53:48 -0700 2005 1671830 0 LBQT 1 1671832 Only thing I'd miss would be the Cacao Nibs, which go great in brownies and cookies, or ground with your coffee beans. Probably be one of the first things discontinued, as an economy. Tue Jul 26 18:59:17 -0700 2005 1671736 0 Shep 1 1671857 Sometimes those large companies buy a boutique company just to improve their image. They may not change a thing (other than maybe a better distribution system) This happened a number of times in the beer industry in the early 90’s. The big guys would buy a popular, quality brewer just to add it to their corporate stable. Some of them were ruined, but not all. I would give it a chance before writing the brand off. Wed Jul 27 10:05:04 -0700 2005 1671736 0 Tugboat 1 1671933 SB doesn't excite me, so good luck to Hershey. Now you guy's may get rattled by this, but I do think that there is something 'je ne se quoi' that is truly missing in American chocolates. $$ value (price & quality for me is Belgian), with next in $ value line, being our good 'ole English ones. Wonder if this will start a flame war but IMO you guy's must stick with your ketchups and mayo's and not tango with chocolates :-) Thu Jul 28 03:10:03 -0700 2005 1671736 0 Amin (London Foodie ''OrientRice@aol.com'') 2 1671953 Hey, you might want to be a bit more sparing with your apostrophes (vs. apostrophe's.) It seems that your intent IS to rattle "us guy's", but I would argue that national origin has no correlation with quality in this case, and that there's good chocolate and bad chocolate made in the US as well as various European countries, so these sweeping statements are about as valid as saying that Spanish wines are better than Italian ones, or vice versa. Also, personal views on this issue are very much conditioned by our native environment as well as individual taste preferences. Thu Jul 28 11:21:57 -0700 2005 1671933 0 Sir Gawain 3 1671962 SG, I think its more the technique and the ingredient. The je ne se quoi referred mainly to these two things. Thanks to a CH friend of mine I have tried scharffenberger which didn't thrill me, but I take your point about personal views being conditioned by the native environment as well as individual taste preferences. Guess I shall just have to try again some other time. I am told by some American friends that Cadbury's in England tastes far better than the equivalent bar in the US, and I still have to identify as to what is the missing factor for this, as I think there is some ingredient used in the US choco's which make them somewhat different than the European ones. In similar vein while I do not drink at all (out of personal choice) have heard that the wine in France is far better in taste than the French wine available in England (this I think is attributed to the way the barrels are treated in France) ->->Hey, you might want to be a bit more sparing with your apostrophes (vs. apostrophe's.)<-<- …… I have taken extra care with these now -happy ? Thu Jul 28 13:07:07 -0700 2005 1671953 0 Amin (London Foodie ''OrientRice@aol.com'') 4 1672001 Yeah, I've also heard that about Cadbury's, and have no problem believing that imported items can taste different than their original versions (case in point: Czech beer, which when purchased in the US, even on draft, is a pale reflection of its original self...) But to me, Cadbury chocolate is no great shakes to start with. What I'm saying is, SB is far from being the only "high-end" chocolate made in the US, so to base a judgment of ALL made-in-the-USA chocolate on it is misleading. As you might have gleaned from the thread, it does have some very specific, strong flavor characteristics that are not to everyone's liking. (That also happens to be the case of Valrhona, which some people swear by and others abhor.) So, most people feel pretty strongly for-or-against SB, but that says little about the other US chocolates out there. P.S. Your effort on the apostrophes is much appreciated, now if you can work a little bit on "je ne SAIS quoi" you'll be in good shape... [sorry] Thu Jul 28 17:26:42 -0700 2005 1671962 0 Sir Gawain 1 1671975 Would not be too alqrmed. Hershey is actually one of the large companies that has a social conscious. It is owned by a Family Trust and when other large companies wanted to buy them they refused to sell because of the impact it would have had on the town and it's employees. While their Hershey chocolate is not the greatest, they already own a bunch of boutique brands and have helped them grow rather than be assimulated. Sometimes the right $$ and distribution actually does result in synergy. Thu Jul 28 14:37:52 -0700 2005 1671736 0 Old East Coaster