300180 Tue Apr 26 13:28:33 -0700 2005 18 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1666797 26th April 2005 I had been trying to avoid logging onto CH as it's far too addictive, but today I received an email from a CH friend (name/location unknown)who simply said : ''Have missed your posts ... hope you're well''.- so here I am back again. In April I went to Brussels (official visit to Chocoa 2005 including guided tours of three chocolatiers), came back and two days later went to Spain. -All that is another story for another day.... .. Meanwhile... Question: Shall appreciate some info on what YOU would normally use the following for, and what sort of price do you pay for it. : 1) Saffron 2) Sesame seed (hulled or un-hulled) Also, is sesame seed a herb, a spice, or a condiment ? reason for this is that I have been doing some research on this item and have come across it being referred to as all three Thanks in advance /Amin Tue Apr 26 13:28:33 -0700 2005 0 Amin (LondonFoodie) 1 1666805 A few of my favorite saffron dishes: --Fabes con Almejas--Asturian--white beans and clams --Garbanzos al Azafrán --Rodaballo al Azafrán--Turbot in saffron --Fideua--a sort of seafood paella made with tiny noodles --Paella Valenciana With Spanish saffron, I only buy that with D.O. from La Mancha and in threads (not in powder), since the production and quality is controlled--otherwise, I think it's hard to know what you are getting. It's pricey--the last batch I bought was 4 grams and cost 15 Euros at El Corte Ingles. I'm sure I could have gotten a better deal elsewhere (markets and "herbolarios"--herb shops often have good prices). Tue Apr 26 15:52:23 -0700 2005 1666797 0 butterfly 2 1666877 Fabes con Almejas - that sounds delicious. What recipe do you use? Wed Apr 27 15:02:25 -0700 2005 1666805 0 plum 3 1666918 Thank you all, including Cyndy, Plum, Butterfly & Carb lover, for your input and warmth, which is truly appreciated. Cyndy you're right about sesame seed being the seed of a plant and not a herb or spice. It was introduced into the US late 17/early 18th century and is still referred to as benne in the Southern states Unhulled sesame seeds are rich in fibre, manganese, magnesium, iron, potassium, calcium, phosphorus, vitamin B1, zinc, copper, niacin, and thiamine. Although they contain a fair amount of calcium, the hull contains a substance, oxalic acid that tightly binds the minerals, including the calcium, so they are not well absorbed by the body. Hulling removes both the oxalic acid as well as much of the minerals and fibres. As they have a surplus of the two amino acids, methionine and tryptophan, both of these amino acids acking in vegetable protein foods, it can make sesame seed a good addition to the vegan diet. In order to maximise mileage of the nutrients from these seeds, it is advisable to chew them well, or to grind the seeds into various products that benefit out of its usage as an ingredient, such as halvah for example. Some of the perceived benefits of sesame are said to include prevention of high blood pressure, protecting the liver from oxidative damage, pain reduction for sufferers of rheumatoid arthritis. provides structure, strength and elasticity in blood vessels, bones and joints, thereby assisting in prevention of bone loss as a result of menopause or certain conditions of arthritis, lowers blood pressure thereby reducing the possiblility of a stroke, or heart attack, & reducing PMS symptoms in menopausal women. Plum, you obviously have an Irano-Kuwaiti connection. As I am researching saffron the views expressed by you, butterfly and others is also appreciated. I believe that besides La Mancha (near Madrid), there is an area around Valencia/ Alicante also famous for it, however am trying to pin its location down so I can visit these areas when I go back towards the end of next month. As butterfly mentions, saffron is controlled by the Spanish authorities, however as its so light in weight, a lot of the growers tend to keep aside a few kilos of the good stuff to sell later at higher prices.I was informed by a Spanish lady earlier this month that the Iranian saffron growers tend to use food dye to highlight the colour, however this may be true or untrue, I need to learn more about the stuff before I add saffron to my list. On a recent visit to Dubai, I was surprised to find that a well known French supermarket chain in the city centre stocked their saffron in the chilled section. They were in attractive tins, however the packing date was Aug 2004 so it was already about 8 months old. The staff member at the chilled section near the cheeses said they kept it chilled to maintain freshness of quality. While I have mentioned my currant understanding of Saffron, and of sesame seed, would welcome more knowledgeable views and ideas. thanks/Amin Thu Apr 28 07:12:25 -0700 2005 1666877 0 Amin (London Foodie -''OrientRiceXX@aol.com'') 4 1666971 They may grow saffron in Valencia, but the only D.O. for saffron in Spain is in "La Mancha"--it is grown in the little triangle between Cuenca, Toledo and Ciudad Real. They plant them in June--I read an article a while back that said that each is still planted by hand. The flowers bloom in October and I think I read that there is some kind of festival when they pick them. Yesterday I saw some saffron with La Mancha D.O. that was also certified as organic (at the kitchen store, Alambique, in Madrid--near Opera). When I run out of my current stash, I may give it a try--I think it was about the same price as the last batch that I bought. Thu Apr 28 18:04:24 -0700 2005 1666918 0 butterfly 4 1666980 The saffron with the powdered dye is Iranian B grade or lower. Iranian producers do add dye to some grades, but a reputable producer will clearly mark this. Pure Iranian saffron is A grade, and anything lower (grades B/D/E) will be successively shorter/lesser quality stigma and successively more powdered food dye. To make sure you are getting pure saffron, you must buy grade A "first standard quality for export". Luckily, to Westerners, this is comparatively cheap. The good export stuff comes from southeastern Iran - look on the packaging for the city of Mashad or the province of Khorasan. Saffron is produced other places, but usually not for export. (I've read that a lot of the excess goes to Spain for mixing in with the domestic Spanish crop, actually.) Inside Iran the saffron comes in small cellophane envelopes with grade, origin and freshness clearly marked; outside Iran, it is almost always in plastic boxes. (Buyer beware pushy bazaar bargains!) Tarvand, Novin, Sardar and Marghzar are well-known, reliable exporters that clearly mark their products. I'm sure you can find this stuff in Dubai - and, Amin, please do not miss a chance to eat at Shabestan in the Dubai Intercontinental. Thu Apr 28 21:02:59 -0700 2005 1666918 0 plum 5 1666982 Looking over the packets in our kitchen, I see that grade A is sometimes called "Category I" as well. Sargol saffron is the best - you should see no yellow, only red. Thu Apr 28 21:17:44 -0700 2005 1666980 0 plum 3 1666973 It is a great dish--with great complementary flavors. I'll admit, I've never made it myself, because I have family that does a better job than I ever could--and a great lunch place right around the corner that makes an even better version (please don't tell the familia!). But here's a paraphrased and (awkwardly) translated recipe that you could give a try: For 4-6 people 1/2 kilo of fabes (white broad beans in English, I believe) 24 clams (these are small clams about the size of a mussel) 1 onion 2 garlic cloves 1 teaspoon of saffron 1 teaspoon of finely minced parsley 1 cup of olive oil salt to taste Soak the beans for 12 hours. Fry the onion (minced) and garlic (sliced finely) in the oil in a cazuela (a thick earthenware casserole). Add the clams (cleaned) and cook them until they open. Separately, add the white beans to a pot of boiling water (no quantity given, though this is a fairly soupy dish). Stop the water from boiling by adding a "spurt" of cold water. Let the beans simmer until soft. Add the clams, along with the "sofrito" (onions, garlic and olive oil), saffron, and parsley. Add salt to taste and continue cooking until the beans are thoroughly "buttery" (actually, it says "mantecoso"--"lardy"). I attached link to a picture, that looks about right to me--though I don't agree with the addition of carrots... Let me know how it turns out! Link: http://www.karlosnet.com/Especiales/Legumbres/legumbres_p.html Thu Apr 28 18:25:29 -0700 2005 1666877 0 butterfly 1 1666808 I don't buy saffron, so I can't help you there, but sesame seeds are what I class as 'basically free'. I pay, in CDN funds, 15 cents for 100 grams...which is roughly 1/4 pound...so about 60 cents a pound...practically free. And they are not an herb or a spice, they are a seed. Used as a 'condiment' in some cuisines, yes, but I wouldn't class them as a condiment in the same way one would call mayonnaise a condiment. They are a food in thier own right, and are used to make things like Halvah and tahini. They are the seed of the benne or sesame plant and have a long history in middle eastern and african cuisines, as well as asian cuisines. Tue Apr 26 16:11:21 -0700 2005 1666797 0 Cyndy 1 1666854 Hi Amin. Glad that you are posting again. I have bought saffron when I visited Spain, have a friend in Barcelona who will bring me some now and then, but the best that I've had is found at Trader Joe's for an incredible price. It's imported from Spain from Santini and costs $3 for 1 gram of long, intact, fresh threads. Very fresh so a little goes a long way. I usually use saffron for making paella and bouillabaisse. Have also steeped it into chicken stock, discarded the threads, and then used the stock in risotto or rice. Your inquiry now has me wanting to use it more creatively...like in homemade ice cream, panna cotta, or maybe cream sauce for fettucine. I don't know lots about sesame seeds but enjoy using them when I happen to buy them; they're not in my standard pantry. As another poster said, they're seeds and can be used in dif. ways (to season or to finish a dish). I always toast them a bit to bring out their oil and usually use in Asian cookery. Have also used them to make Mexican mole sauce. Wed Apr 27 12:49:10 -0700 2005 1666797 0 Carb Lover 1 1666874 We are lucky enough to get Iranian saffron either directly from Iran or when visiting the Gulf countries. It is significantly cheaper there, perhaps $9-15 for 5 grams. We usually bring back 30 grams every six months, both for personal use and gifts. Iranian saffron is available in New York but terribly expensive, like $8 per gram. I use saffron all the time in Iranian recipes - stews, kebabs, fish, omlettes, rice dishes, desserts. We also make Kuwaiti recipes with saffron, like machbous (biryani redone to Gulf tastes). My mother-in-law even steeps great quantities of saffron in water for drinking like tea. I have to admit I've never had Spanish saffron which compared to the quality of Iranian saffron. The Spanish saffron I have bought in New York has always seemed not as fragrant, shrivelled, not as fresh - and quite expensive too. Could someone recommend how to buy Spanish saffron, or how its terroir (for lack of a better term) differs from Iranian saffron? Wed Apr 27 14:59:01 -0700 2005 1666797 0 plum 2 1666892 I can't compare to Iranian saffron... But the best way to know that you are getting a quality-controlled product in Spain (aside from being intimately familiar with a given producer) is to stick with products that have earned a D.O. (denominación de orígen). As far as I know, the only D.O. for saffron in Spain is that of "La Mancha". The package will have the seal and D.O. info. It's very possible that the Spanish saffron you are getting in the US is not fresh or not stored properly--given the cost, I would only buy it if you can determine the date it was picked and where it is from. But then again, if you are happy with the Iranian stuff, I'd stick with it... Saffron omelettes--that sounds interesting--how do you use it? Wed Apr 27 18:47:32 -0700 2005 1666874 0 butterfly 3 1666985 Thank you very much for your recipe, butterfly - I will try it this weekend with some cockles in place of clams. Persian omlettes are called "kuku" - they're made with green herbs, potato, green beans, cauliflower, meat, and many other variations. My favourite is the green herb omlette, kuku sabzi. Depending on the amount of butter or whether it is made in a frying pan or baked, kuku can be like an omlette or a crustless quiche. Soak about a pinch of saffron in 2 tbsp hot (not boiling) water for 20 minutes. Prepare the herbs - a good food processor speeds this up: 1 and 1/2 cup chopped flat-leaf parsley 1 cup chopped coriander leaves 1/2 cup chopped scallions or chives 1/2 cup chopped dill 2 tbsp dried fenugreek (we buy Peacock or MDH brand "Kasoori Methi" at Indian shops) A handful of toasted roughly chopped walnuts Optional: add in mint leaves (not authentic, but I like it), lightly sauteed leeks or onions, slivered garlic, or 2 tbsp small sour red barberries (zereshk), spinach or even roughly chopped lettuce. Mix 6 lightly beaten eggs and the saffron water with 1 tsp baking powder (if you're not frying it in a pan), 1 tbsp flour, 1 tsp salt and some pepper. You can add 1/2 tsp cinnamon if you like it - and even if it sounds strange, you might like it. Combine egg mixture and herbs. Now you have a choice of either making this in a pan on the stove (more butter, crispier, better taste) or in the oven (less butter, puffy, like a crustless quiche). Frying Pan (use a wide deep non-stick or seasoned pan): Heat 2 tbsp butter and add egg mixture. Fry over medium high heat until mostly set and the bottom is crispy. Flip over (you can cut it in quarters first), add 2 tbsp butter more, and crisp the other side. You may need even yet more butter. My husband's great-aunt can do this perfectly and keep the kuku whole. Not me. This is a messy process and doesn't always look pretty in the end. It still tastes good though. Oven: Heat oven to 350F. Melt 2-4 tbsp butter in a baking dish lined with parchment paper. Pour in the egg/herb mixture and top with slivers of butter. Bake 40-50 minutes until top is browned. It doesn't get crispy like the pan method but is much less fuss. Serve with some nice fresh thick yogurt. Good hot or cold. Thu Apr 28 22:34:25 -0700 2005 1666892 0 plum 4 1666990 That sounds really great--can't wait to try it--thanks so much for the recipe! Fri Apr 29 09:46:57 -0700 2005 1666985 0 butterfly 1 1666987 Hi Amin, I'm glad to see you back as well. When I was in Dubai this summer I bought some saffron. We asked for the highest grade, and he assured us it was by the scent. He also showed us the quality by putting a piece in his mouth and then rubbing it on a piece of paper to show us the colour. I think we paid 30 dhirams..which came out to be $10 dollars (CDN) for 2 bunches. I don't know how much it weighs but I brought it for my mother and she seemed very happy to use it in biriyanis on special holidays. I just went to take a look and it it bright red for 3/4 of the length and yellow for the strands...So, can anyone tell me if i was duped? Thanks Fri Apr 29 02:25:45 -0700 2005 1666797 0 Zaheen 2 1666988 Hi Zaheen -thanks- 30 dhirams (equates to US$ 8.21) for 2 strands does appear a bit high as I would estimate it at being well below a gram in weight, though I may be wrong, however the seller was a real sharp cookie indeed to sort of spit on it (mouth it), then roll it on a paper. You ought to have made him wash his hands before he touched your two strands. Personally, at present I am still learning about saffron but once I have collated sufficient information shall be pleased to share this at a later stage, however I think the litmus test for good saffron is perhaps its depth of colour and smell after you pour a bit of warm water in a tiny bowl. If for example the saffron you bought was pre-dyed, then it could well be that the colour you saw on the paper may have been part of the dye. Plum: Shabestan & the fish market at the Dubai Intercont have always been my favourite restaurants in Dubai. Having done some searches on CH, I had armed my self with some information on other venues from Pat Hammond's Son who had visited Dubai around 2003/04 and had subsequently posted on CH. Cyndy: This morning I received an email from a CH surfer (non-poster) who I think has a valid point and is quite correct in saying; QQ ''Herbs are leaves, spices are bark or seeds, it is that simple. If sesame seed were not a spice, then neither would pepper, anise seed, celery seed, allspice, nutmeg, caraway, cloves, coriander, cardamon, or poppy seed be considered spices'' UQ Fri Apr 29 07:19:41 -0700 2005 1666987 0 Amin/London Foodie (''OrientRice@aol.com'') 3 1667016 Hi, Yes-it was 2 bunches not two strands. Happy to say that he couldn't fool me that much ;) Zaheen Fri Apr 29 15:41:23 -0700 2005 1666988 0 Zaheen 2 1666991 The part that is not red does not have culinary value. So it should cost quite a bit less per gram than the pure red stuff. Suddenly I feel like I am talking illicit drugs... Fri Apr 29 09:51:15 -0700 2005 1666987 0 butterfly 2 1667004 Oh - are you talking about those little bundles of longer saffron strands? I've seen tiny tied bunches of long-ish saffron strands (mostly red with a little yellow), which are used as bundles, not broken up (see the Tarvand link below for a picture under classification "Tarvand C1: (TIGHT)"). Depending on how much yellow, this can still be very good, and I think the little bundles are very pretty. The main thing I look for in saffron-shopping is fragrance - I'm not indifferent to colour, but for me, even if it has some yellow, if it smells good and imparts a good flavour to cooking, then you were not duped. Better very fresh second-quality than dried-out old sargol (top quality) saffron. Link: http://www.tarvandsaffron.com/classification.htm Fri Apr 29 13:40:13 -0700 2005 1666987 0 plum