300168 Fri Apr 22 22:21:29 -0700 2005 24 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1666685 Bonjour, Mes Chiens de Camarade! Ah, coffee. Whether morning, noon, or night, there's always sure to be a million and one pots brewing around the globe.. from Paris to Pasadena, everyone, it seems, loves a good cup o' joe. Here in Los Angeles, you can't go two blocks without passing a Starbucks (or Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf, or Peet's, etc.) outlet, and along with the ubiquitous cell phone, a chic cup of coffee (or, alternatively, a whipped cream crowned 500 calorie ice-blended) has become a very visible part of the consumerist cultural fabric. The cult of coffee has become a vertiable religion, it's faithful worshipping at the Shrine of Our Barista of the Mocha Latte, mugs pointed towards Seattle (if not Colombia or Kenya). Always one to be late to such fanfare (I only recently purchased my first cell phone), I have in the past few months become intrigued by the great, beastly coffee industry, and decided to see for myself what all the fuss is about. What I found is that.. this coffee stuff is.. not bad. Okay, I'm a convert - I admit it! I've gone from being a foulweather drinker (as opposed to fairweather - as I preferred coffee during the cold and rainy season) to a bona fide coffee aficionado. From four cups a year to four cups a day. And now that I've joined the fanclub, I have a few questions I would like to run by some of you fellow coffeholics.. To begin with, there's the French Press question. I have yet to go out and buy one, but all the press on the Press seems to suggest that it's an indespensible addition to any true coffee lover's brewing arsenal.. THEE way to brew coffee, allegedly. Is a French Press really the way to go? Am I nuts for having lived this long without it? I currently use an ordinary automatic drip coffee maker.. none too fancy, but none too awful, either. Is it time to make the switch? What are your experiences with French Presses? Do share! Also, I'd like to hear some opinions on Gevalia Coffee. Seems a bit of a pain to have to continually mail-order the stuff.. but I've been told by a few people that it's rather quite good. For those who've had it, what do you think? And finally, what's your favorite retail coffee - meaning, do you prefer Starbucks to Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf, or is it Peet's, or Seattle's Best Coffee? Some I know swear by McDonald's and Dunkin Donuts! Where do you go for that perfect cup? I'd like to try some of your suggestions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice and suggestions! Happy Brewing! Image: http://www.fide.pl/img/bodum/305/103.jpg Fri Apr 22 22:21:29 -0700 2005 0 CawfeeTawk 1 1666693 Nice post, cawfee tawk. I’ve been feeling harrowed, pressured, dare I say hounded, by all the tea trendiness in LA at the moment – good for you for coming over to the dark side. If you like dark roasts that is. I do. My 2 cents…which won’t even buy you a cup at Phillippes… I have hated french press coffee for years. I think coffee brewed this way ends up tasting stewed and cold. Hate it. Many people vehemently disagree with me. Some of them have even made me coffee to prove me wrong. It’s never changed my mind. I do think a french press makes a lovely flower vase. But then I heard Jerry Baldwin, one of the founders of Starbucks and a former president and CEO of Peets, speak at LAPL a couple weeks ago. When people asked him about home brewing methods, he said, more than once, that coffee should be left in a french press for no more than 3 minutes. Well, dang! Who knew? Not me. And no one in any of the high-end restaurants in this town serving bad stewed coffee in french presses. It almost makes me want to dust off the french press I have sitting on a high shelf with my other obsolete coffee makers. I still won’t be buying it after dinner at Grace, but I might have to re-evaluate my home brewing options. I like strong coffee, so I use a stovetop espresso maker. It makes strong coffee, not espresso, but I love it. As for beans, I can’t speak to the Gevalia question. There have been posts on the LA board about where to find good beans in the past. I can't find one of my favorite threads, but here's another good one linked below. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/58185#304438 Sat Apr 23 00:30:07 -0700 2005 1666685 0 ks 2 1666798 KS: I agree 100%. I've never understood the charm of the French Press. To my mind, the one advantage of this method is that you can "bloom" the grounds by stirring them after you pour in the water, thereby assuring even extraction. But I personally have never been able to brew a consistent cup of coffee using a french press. That's why I prefer a simple, inexpensive melita drip cone -- the kind that sits right on top of your mug. You put in a paper filter, add some coffee, then pour the hot water right in. It's a little more effort than an auto-drip, but no more than the french press. Best of all, because the filter is exposed, you can "bloom" the grounds. Finally, I'd second the Peet's recommendation (though, full disclosure, I used to work at a Peet's in SF). Someone mentioned that they prefer using about 70% of the recommended two tablespoons per 6 oz. of water. Stick with whatever works, but I personally would not recommend decreasing the amount of coffee used. A better solution is to brew the coffee as recommended, then thin it to taste with hot water. Image: http://i18.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/e4/b5/22_1_b.JPG Tue Apr 26 13:33:35 -0700 2005 1666693 0 a&w 1 1666699 I love Peet's. I found out what day they have their coffee delivered and buy it either on that day or the next day, have them grind it (I know, heresy, but I don't have a burr grinder) and use it within a week. Their coffee kicks Starbucks butt up and down the street IMO. Now Starbucks is only for desperate times. That being said, the best coffee I have had in my life was some that the Whole Foods expert roaster guy roasted in front of my eyes and handed to me moments later...it was a Kenya and it was perfect. I too hate French press coffee. I agree about not leaving it in the pot more than 3 minutes after it is done. It turns into horrible bitter dreck. I am a bit of a wimp - I use about 70 percent of the amount of beans Peets recommends (2 Tbsp per 6 oz cup) and like it much better that way. I use a Capresso drip maker with gold filter and like it just fine. Sat Apr 23 02:13:47 -0700 2005 1666685 0 snackish 1 1666700 Gevalia coffee is SO gross. Don't go near it. Sat Apr 23 02:30:55 -0700 2005 1666685 0 Shaebones 2 1666702 We're French Press devotees - the darker and stronger the better. That being said, we ordered once from Gevalia. It was so weak and tasteless we sent it back. Sat Apr 23 06:57:54 -0700 2005 1666700 0 brentk 2 1666703 Same could be said for Starbucks, Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf, Peet's, etc. Sat Apr 23 07:38:51 -0700 2005 1666700 0 2chez mike 2 1666711 I agree! Gevalia sent us a sampler pack, and there wasn't one drinkable cup in the bunch. In L.A., your best bet is Peet's (but they all seem to close around 8 pm), or one of the neighborhood joints that fresh roasts. If you search the L.A. board, or post, you'll be able to zero in on the best in your neck of the woods. Bienvenue a la camaraderie! Sat Apr 23 15:38:37 -0700 2005 1666700 0 LBQT 2 1666734 I agree. I don't understand the Gravalia mystique. My brother is devoted to Grevalia and keeps sending it to me as gifts. I have to re-gift it to friends that enjoy it. Sun Apr 24 16:33:17 -0700 2005 1666700 0 Scottso 1 1666708 Finding the perfect cup of coffee is impossible, but fun trying. I'm currently using a french press. I only buy bulk, 100% Columbian beans, 8oz. at a time. I Drink it from a wide mouth japanese ceramic mug for aroma. This could all change next week. One coffee maker test liked a two chamber, vacuum job, by Black&Decker....hmm.. Sat Apr 23 13:19:43 -0700 2005 1666685 0 Wylie 1 1666713 I was a coffee hater for years. I loved the smell, and occasionally I would find a good cup, but could never find a bean I liked for home brewing. Finally in Italy last year I realized I liked my coffee strong. Espresso strong. Which I never made at home. I immediatly went home and bought a pound of Lavazza and discovered I liked it. Since then I've tried several different "espresso" roasts, and I've not found a bad one yet. Lavazza, Fairway (in NYC), and Gevalia espresso have all kept me drinking 4-5 cups a day. A friend even sent me a pound of World Market espresso and I loved that. Gavalia espresso has become a mainstay in our house now. I like the convenience, and I like the coffee. I've tried a few other roasts and didn't like them. I brew it in a regular Cuisinart drip. Nothing fancy. Sat Apr 23 16:12:57 -0700 2005 1666685 0 ElBee 1 1666718 I use a Bodum Santos coffee maker and a Nissan thermos (Nissan Compact Vacuum Bottle, Model FDI-1000). After the coffe is made, I put it *immediately* into the thermos and get to have great coffee all day. The Bodum Santos also puts on a great show when you have guests. I understand they now have an electric model, but know nothing about it. You can also drip directly into the thermos which works well also. I am really a tea drinker ;-) so I need very hot coffee to enjoy it. Re coffee, I hate dark roast, SO loves it. If you like middle of the road coffee, I think you'll be o.k. with Gevalia. I also suggest using the same spoon measure everyday so you can adjust the flavor as you go along accurately. (SO likes to dump in according to eye, so some days good and some days bad.) Being relatively new to coffee, I find that coffee quality is mostly a function of freshness of the roast and grind. Try to identify the qualities of the coffee you like - Trader Joe's has an excellent chart which can help lead you to a bean you'll love. Sat Apr 23 19:33:31 -0700 2005 1666685 0 Siobhan 1 1666723 I make french press coffee all the time, and prefer it to drip coffee. I've never tried the bodum vaccuum model, don't like espresso. I buy Trader Joe's Costa Rican beans, (available in all the Boston stores) which are medium-acid, with lovely aroma and body, grind them fresh, and brew them with just-boiled water in the press for 5 minutes, 2tbsps per person. I find 3 1/2 coffee scoops (just over 6tbps) makes a full press of strong but not bitter coffee. Their island blend is not so good, I find. My brother in law is a fan of their french roast. When I am out, I actually like the dunkin donuts house blend, but I find it's just not possible to get it to come out the same way at home. It doesn't get hot enough, or something. In Boston, you can buy New England Tea and Coffee Co. house blend/eye opener blend, and it's the same roast as the DD (they're the local roaster). Same with the french roast/vanilla/hazelnut. Gevalia of late has been yucky. I used to like their Stockholm roast, but the last time I had it, about a year ago, it was terribly watered down. Sat Apr 23 21:17:09 -0700 2005 1666685 0 emdb 1 1666726 I am a coffee lover, too! I don't drink a pot a day or anything, but love a good strong cup to wake up to in the AM and one in the late afternoon or after dinner on occasion. I personally think that a french press does the most justice to good coffee beans. I taste flavor notes that never come forward w/ drip coffee, and I enjoy the rich viscosity that french press lends. In fact, your post inspired me to do a taste test using the same coffee made by both press and drip methods. The press coffee tasted much more complex, filling my mouth and lingering. That said, I admit that I use my drip for daily use b/c it's just more convenient all around. I move slowly in the AM so need to make things simple on myself. I save the press for weekends or when I'm making coffee for a nice dessert, etc. I noticed that when I switched over to a permanent mesh filter (instead of disposable paper ones) for my drip coffeemaker, the coffee tasted a little closer to french press. It sounds like Gevalia may be going downhill lately, but I was one of those people who ordered from them a couple of times (from 5-10 yrs. ago) due to their free trial offers. I really liked their European style coffee that was never over-roasted (like I find Peet's to be) and had delicate notes of fruit and caramel. I esp. liked to pair it w/ desserts. But I cancelled my order after the trial b/c I thought it was overpriced for the quantity. Even if they were still as good, I wouldn't think of ordering from them now since good, well-priced beans are so widely available these days. Since you live in LA, you have many, many choices. I now buy beans from my local roaster for all of their wonderful blends, plus I like that they're certified organic and fair trade. I supplement w/ Trader Joe's coffees. Buy whole bean and a grinder, and store beans in freezer. Keep in mind that grind size changes depending on brewing method, as press grind is more fine than drip grind. Sun Apr 24 00:20:19 -0700 2005 1666685 0 Carb Lover 2 1666728 If you're looking for excellent coffee, try D'Amico Foods on Smith Street in Brooklyn. I discovered it while visiting a friend who had just moved to that area after living in Brooklyn Heights for years. They've been roasting beans since 1948. I think their House Blend Dark Roast is better than any coffee I've had of late. I live north of Boston and they ship. I can place an order on Tuesday and it will arrive on Thursday. Can't say how long it will take to get to LA, but it's worth a try. Only down side . . . minimum shipping order is 3 lbs. Check out the link below to see their full range of coffees. Link: http://www.damicofoods.com/coffees.html Sun Apr 24 09:28:58 -0700 2005 1666726 0 barlev 1 1666744 A fellow chowhounder pronounced her cup of french press coffee at my house one Sunday: The best cup of coffee I have EVER had! And she has been all over the world. I have a coffee press but use it once in a blue moon now. I used Cafe Verona (Starbucks) to make that cup she liked so much. I do think everyone should have one because there are times in the morning or when guests arrive when you want a quick cup of cofee with a kick. Unfiltered coffee is not good for you, period. I would try one. They come in different sizes and prices. Sun Apr 24 22:32:33 -0700 2005 1666685 0 Mini-Driver 1 1666784 It all comes down to taste and personal preference ( who would have thunk it? ) For my 12 oz cup in the morning ( which is my daily ration)I have gone to extraordinary lengths. I roast my own coffee and own several French presses, the Bodum electric vacuum pot, the Cona vacuum pot, several automatic drip machines, a copper balance vacuum pot, etc. I drink my coffee black and unsweetened. I do not particularly like espresso ( except for Cuban coffee which is black and sweetened..but I live in Miami and have to love it.) The major brands, Starbucks, Peets and others are IMO almost undrinkable. The roast is so dark it is almost drinking charcoal and any nuance in the bean and roasting is lost. If I do not roast my own, I like Dunkin Donuts or regular Eight O'Clock Blend. The few times I have had Gevalia I have not tasted anything worth the money. As far as brewing methods. I like a French press when I want a somewhat cloudy and "chewy" blend. Again, the preparation is somewhat technique sensitive. The antithesis is the Chemex System which is my favorite and has been around for many years. Basically it is a chemical flask with a particular filter paper. It produces an absolutely clear product with a very clean taste. The disadvantage is that you really can't keep it hot unless you use one of the ghastly thermal devices. On a slightly different note, I often hear ( and I believe this was echoed in this thread ) that the best cup was "just roasted." Actually "just roasted" is OK, but most coffees are at their peak 24-48 hours after roasting. And we did not even discuss grinding. I do have too much time on my hands. In summary, it really is all a matter of taste and personal preference as it should be Tue Apr 26 10:22:03 -0700 2005 1666685 0 Karl 2 1666845 Karl - and anyone else... I'm very interested in your comments about just roasted beans vs. 24-48 hours. A couple years ago an employee at Small World Coffee in Princeton (the best coffee in the NJ/NY area IMHO) told me something along these lines. They mark their bags of beans with the roast date and I was searching for a recent roasting of their rocket blend. He said that three days after roasting was the peak. I've never heard this anywhere else, but their coffee is so dang good I didn't dismiss it. Do you know why this delay would improve the coffee? I'm guessing it has to do with more volatile components of the coffee off-gassing, but is that true? In a sense for me it's academic since I don't consume a whole bag of coffee in one day, three, or even a week. But I am curious. Wed Apr 27 11:27:46 -0700 2005 1666784 0 ks 3 1666861 There are volatile components which are released for the first few days. After roasting, if I put the beans in a sealed cannister and open after a few hours, there is an impressive "pop." Usually leave open to the air for 48 hours. Sweetmarias.com is a good source of information, links as well as all coffee "hardware" and green beans. I have no connection to this company, but have found them reliable and reasonably priced. Parenthetically, coffee when it is roasting does not smell like "coffee," but rather has a grassy, earthy odor. Wed Apr 27 13:16:55 -0700 2005 1666845 0 Karl 1 1666793 my experience with the french press is that it makes a well-rounded tasting cup of coffee. the process is very simple and doesn't rely on high pressure or heavy filtration. it shows off the flavorful oils of the bean, but if your coffee is stale, burnt or just plain bad, it'll display that too. it's got a few problems to overcome. to keep the temperature from dropping while brewing, you need to cover the pot with a cozy (a thick kitchen towel and a clothes pin will do). make the grind of your bean coarse or else you'll get sludge & sediment in your cup. gevalia isn't very good. better brands of swedish coffee are zoega or arvid nordquist. Tue Apr 26 12:23:31 -0700 2005 1666685 0 petradish 2 1666795 Thanks for your tips. I have been grinding my beans more finely for press than for drip (I somehow thought that was the proper technique) and your post made me think twice. Did a quick google and found a few tip sheets that are in line w/ your rec. I guess my mesh is pretty fine since I never had a problem w/ grinds getting into my coffee. 2 questions: 1. How long do you steep for? 2. Do you freeze your beans? I've been doing that forever but just came across one source that says to avoid that. Thanks. Tue Apr 26 13:23:36 -0700 2005 1666793 0 Carb Lover 3 1666800 i steep for 4-5 minutes. i don't freeze my beans, just store them in a dark cupboard. (more to do with keeping the ice cubes odor-free than anything else). Tue Apr 26 14:04:27 -0700 2005 1666795 0 petradish 1 1666813 French Presses are a wonderful, wonderful thing. One big caveat, like Turkish coffee, no matter how tempting it may be, do *not* take the last sip. Instead of finding a good coffee roaster, why not roast your own coffee? All you need is a hot air popcorn popper and the green coffee beans. Normally it would be ridiculously hard to get your hands on unroasted coffee beans, but thanks to the wonders of the Internet you can get them shipped straight to your door. Once you've had REALLY fresh coffee, everything else is burned sawdust. Link: http://www.sweetmarias.com Tue Apr 26 16:56:04 -0700 2005 1666685 0 JK Grence (the Cosmic Jester) 1 1667067 I would like to hear everyones opinion on the health risks of french press coffee. My dad is a big coffee drinker, as am I, but has read things that make him not drink french press. He uses the stovetop expresso pot. It's really good. -Becca Sun May 01 17:20:43 -0700 2005 1666685 0 Becca Porter 2 1667071 I thought the problem with the french press was an association between nonfiltered coffee and cholesterol...which would hold eqully true for French press, espresso and percolator coffee. Sun May 01 19:56:34 -0700 2005 1667067 0 sku