299752 Tue Feb 01 12:45:12 -0800 2005 19 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1662464 I've had Kim Chee once ... about 15 years ago. I am about to explore Korean supermarkets. One poster said that one market had about 50 types of kim chee. I don't know yet if that was exaggeration, but my goodness. So, what should I look for in terms of varieties of kim chee. Once I buy it, how do I use it? Do certain types of kim chee go better with certain meats ... is it a white with fish, red with beef type of thing? I don't want specific recipies, as that belongs on a separate board, but is it used in cooking. I see recipes out on the web for kim chee chicken, Kim chee with tofu, kim chee sandwiches, kim chee dip (with cream cheese), and kim chee pizza (with peperoni), to name a few. Those last two can't be right. Has anyone bought Kim Chee Cookbook (link below). It seems good. The link below says kim chee "follows a basic code of five colors (green, red, white, black, and yellow) and flavors (salty, spicy, sour, sweet, and bitter) which in turn symbolize universal directions, actions, and seasonal changes". Who knew? For your possible amusement, I found a paraody of the song "who stole the kielbasa?" called "who stole the kim chee?" Here's the link http://www.amiright.com/parody/misc/frankieyankovic1.shtml Link: http://www.ecookbooks.com/products.html?affiliateID=36309&item=O103 Image: http://www.ecookbooks.com/images/resized/11586.gif Tue Feb 01 12:45:12 -0800 2005 0 Krys Stanley 1 1662472 Krys, I'm willing to bet the kind you had before was the one made with cabbage, and that is probably your best bet if you want to cook with it - like make soondubu (a tofu stew in which the kimchee flavors the soup). The other kinds, made from radish or other vegetables, I have not really seen in cooking - instead they are served as panchans at Korean restaurants (side dishes) that you just eat as is. Tue Feb 01 13:13:26 -0800 2005 1662464 0 vidia 2 1662490 I agree with vidia. The napa cabbage kimchee is a good one to start out on and probably the best to cook with. Another thing you can make: kimchee fried rice. Saute some rice with kimchee, meat, seaweed, sesame seeds and sesame oil. Delicious! Tue Feb 01 15:44:57 -0800 2005 1662472 0 Michelle 1 1662485 I buy King's Hawaiian. I buy it because 1) I like it, 2) it is available in my local market. But, please note: I have eaten other kim chees (including an Aunt's) and some I don't like. Dislikes: mushy texture, fermenting taste/mouth feel, too spicy. I eat it as a side dish, just as I would eat other pickled vegetables. The only kim chee I know of; is pickled nappa cabbage. Tue Feb 01 14:58:24 -0800 2005 1662464 0 Alan408 1 1662498 The nappa cabbage is the standard, but one of my favorites is daikon. The green onion is good, too. I find that none of them last - that is, they become too sour and mushy. I enjoy them best when fresh and crunchy. I mostly just eat with rice, but I enjoy the cabbage in ramen or I guess the Korean is rumyun - kind of like the Chinese noodle soup with pickled cabbage. Tue Feb 01 16:42:37 -0800 2005 1662464 0 applehome 1 1662504 There are many, many varieties, but the ones you're most likely to see: - Napa cabbage, cut-up (red and spicy) - mul kimchi ("water kimchi"), Napa cabbage that's white in water, very refreshing - radish kimchi (usually in cubes, also red and spicy) - green onion kimchi (red and spicy) - cucumber kimchi - bossam (meaning "wrapped"), Napa cabbage "wrapped" in one large piece of Napa cabbage, with extras like raw chestnut slices, very fancy and for special occasions. Certain kinds of kimchi are traditional with certain foods, like sullongtang (beef soup--my transliteration is completely off) is always served with radish kimchi, but in general, some form is always served at all Korean meals, including Western-style Thanksgiving dinner (if that makes sense). It's not at all appealing to me, but kimchi pizza and kimchi dip are not at all surprising, and I'm sure there are people out there who enjoy them. People have personal tastes about how "ripe" they like like they're kimchi, so if you try one kind and don't like it, you may like it in a rawer/riper form. When it's rawer, it'll taste less pickled and spicy. With packaged brands, it's hard to tell how it'll taste, unless you've bought that brand at that particular store multiple times and you know how long they normally store them. I'm still trying to find a reliable supplier in NYC. If it's too raw tasting, you can always let it ripen, but not vice versa. It's also not that hard to make your own, though it'll probably take some trial and error to figure out what works for your tastes. In addition to the other recs for cooking, kimchi and strained tofu make a good filling for vegetarian dumplings, though now that I think about it, kimchi is made with fish sauce so not completely veg. Kimchi stew, which you'll see at Korean restaurants, is a classic way of using up overripe kimchi. Basically, kimchi is Korean pickles. In the same way Gus's pickles in the Lower East Side in NY include everything from cucumbers to tomatoes, Korean kimchi can encompass a wide range of raw materials. Actually, at the annual pickle festival in the LES, I was proud to see my people representing, along with Gus, Haitian pickled cod, and chocolate-covered pickled cucumbers. Tue Feb 01 17:25:18 -0800 2005 1662464 0 AppleSister 2 1662521 Great summary, AppleSister. Just a couple nuggets to add: 1) Beware: there is a lot of bad kimchee out there, so please don't dismiss all kimchee out of hand if you find some not to your taste. All I can tell you is that when it's good, it's very good, and can be addicting, which is why Koreans have it for all 3 meals of the day and why all these wacky kimchee recipes come up. I myself have been known to add kimchee to my burgers for a zesty bite. If at all possible, try to find a knowledgeable friend who will be your Virgil through kimchee purgatory. Someone to point out how a proper kimchee should taste. 2) Sometimes good kimchee will be dimissed as bad kimchee because it is not yet ripe. (Imagine an unripe pickle that is just salty rather than tangy.) You ripen the kimchee by leaving it out on the counter at room temperature for a few hours, or overnight. During this time, the liquid in the jar may overflow a bit -- a sign that the kimchee is ripening. Be careful during this process: kimchee can quickly become overripe if left out too long and that's bad news. When you got it just right, stick it back in the fridge and you should have perfect kimchee for at least the next week. 3) As a general rule, areas with a high concentration of Koreans will have homemade kimchee in stores that are in jars (made by local co.s) or in plastic bags with no labels. A lot of Korean foot traffic means high turnover and stiff competition in kimchee quality. However, sometimes this is not the case, as in Manhattan, where kimchee quality seems uniformly bad. Since restaurants generally make their own kimchee, just tasting some good stuff in a restaurant doesn't mean you can walk to the store and get the same gold. In these instances, you have to resort to the imported cabbage, which is the stuff in the vacuum-sealed foil bags in the refrigerated section of the local Korean mart. (I think the brand is Pulmonee or something like that.) While this kimchee is not great, it is better than bad and will do in a crunch. 4) Because kimchee is at its peak for a short period of time, it is best to get small batches of kimchee rather than being overly ambitious and getting the gallon jar. It is best to buy kimchee often and there is no better high than the feeling of biting down on the perfect kimchee specimen -- not too early, not too late, but just right. At that moment, don't dare cook or adulterate the kimchee -- eat cold with just the bare accompaniment of warm rice and maybe some salted nori. That's good eatin'. Good luck in the kimchee hunt. (Some of us are haunted by the memory of Mom's homemade secret-recipe kimchee and will never find its like. Feel sorry for us, since we will never know that pinnacle of kimchee satisfaction again in our lifetime.) Wed Feb 02 00:01:26 -0800 2005 1662504 0 Pupster 3 1662522 Wow ... thanks all. I am so impressed that there is so much to know about Kim Chee. Looking forward to my new quest. Wed Feb 02 00:15:20 -0800 2005 1662521 0 Krys Stanley 3 1662524 P.S. If the thought of all that red pepper is too scary to contemplate, feel free to rinse kimchee in water as you eat. In Korean families, little kids start eating kimchee when they start other solid foods, but of course regular kimchee would be too spicy for a 3yr-old. After a while, the spice is nothing, and kimchee tastes refreshing rather than hot. Wed Feb 02 01:12:54 -0800 2005 1662521 0 Pupster 3 1662530 Hmmm - I'm surprised to hear that kimchee should only last a week or so. Someone used to give my parents big jars of homemade kimchee that we'd then eat for six months or more, as we didn't eat it three times a day but instead a few times a month and so it would take us that long to go through it (it was very spicy red cabbage kimchee). My understanding, though, is we only got it every six months to a year because that is how often our source made new batches, but I might have been wrong about that. Is it possible some recipes might keep for a long time refrigerated or did we just not notice the taste changing? Were we eating spoiled kimchee and never noticed!?! Thanks for the kimchee education! --Joanna Wed Feb 02 09:04:36 -0800 2005 1662521 0 The Turtle (Bay) Dove 4 1662532 My mom and her sisters make kimchi in big batches, but like a lot of Koreans, they have special kimchi refrigerators that are the right temperature to prevent over-quick ripening. So yes, kimchi doesn't last forever, but yes, people don't make it every week. I don't know how it lasted for six months in your fridge, though. Traditionally, kimchi was put in pots and buried in the ground in the winter to ferment. A friend of mine once told me a funny story about her aunt who adopted a Korean boy and tried to make kimchi this way, but didn't realize that she was supposed to put it in a pot before she buried it. As you can imagine, it looked terrible when she dug it up and served it :) Wed Feb 02 09:42:32 -0800 2005 1662530 0 AppleSister 4 1662550 Well, it's not that kimchee doesn't last a while, but that once ripe, the peak of kimchee flavor lasts about a week. Then it's a slow decline as any Korean can tell you. Kimchee was the way to preserve vegetables to last through winter, so after the harvest kimchee would be made in big batches and buried in large ceramic pots in natural refrigeration -- in the cold winter ground. (There are special summer kimchees with less fermentation and a fresher taste.) Even today, kimchee is often made in large batches. My aunt does it kind of like a quilting bee, where the ladies get together, make a ton of it at once, then divvy it up among the neighbors and friends. You can make these large batches last by only ripening a bit at a time (like I mention before, by leaving out at room temp). If you leave it in the fridge before the ripening, you can parse out the portions to ripen over a long period of time. I don't recommend this for most people, however, because it's difficult to control the temp in a fridge that is opening and closing all the time. If you can buy the smaller portions, it easier (and less stinky) to do it that way. Wed Feb 02 13:24:38 -0800 2005 1662530 0 Pupster 1 1662526 Krys, Since you're now spending a lot of time in the East Bay, may I suggest trying some of our many good Korean restaurants in the area? (Or indeed SF). Typically two or three of the panchan (small dishes) served with every meal are kimchee (usually one or two Napa cabbage versions and one daikon). I think this might be a better way to sample different kimchees than trying to buy them from the market and eat them at home, especially if you've only ever had it once. Plus you also get to eat other Korean food. Preparations vary a lot, but I usually like the daikon myself. A lot of the restaurants have very decent lunch specials, and if you express interest in kimchee, some may be willing to talk to you a bit about it. You seem pretty fearless that way. Wed Feb 02 03:06:56 -0800 2005 1662464 0 ericf 2 1662544 Thanks eric, I'll search around on Chowhound to see what's been posted about East Bay Korean restaurants and post my query on the SF board. A nice Korean lunch to go along with my Korean supermarket trip sounds pleasant. I am just amazed by the info. I always thought there was just one type of kim chee and here I find out there are even special kim chee refrigerators that people have at home. Wed Feb 02 11:58:19 -0800 2005 1662526 0 Krys Stanley 1 1662531 Usually I buy the napa cabbage kim chee as it is the most versatile. But once I told a friend to get me a jar of kim chee when he was in the big city and he returned with a giant jar of baby radish kim chee. It was very good, but I had so much that for the next few months, I would take it to whatever party I was invited to in order to give some of it away. It was amazing to see Americans who had never eaten kim chee before wolfing down the spicy cubes (I cut the baby radishes up) with toothpicks stuck in them as appetizers. What I love about cabbage kim chees is that they almost always taste similar, but yet each kim chee is unique - has its own particular, peculiar flavor profile. I usually buy whatever the house brand is at a Korean market. Often I like them better than restaurant kim chees. For cooking, I think it pairs very well with pork - just be sure to buy pork that isn't adulterated with all that sodium gunk that so much supermarket pork is pumped up with these days. After my kimchee gets too sour and old in the fridge, I just do kim chee soup - with things like tofu, oysters, pork, mushrooms,and maybe veggies like carrot or onion. You can be creative. Good luck! ed Wed Feb 02 09:37:31 -0800 2005 1662464 0 e.d. 2 1662575 ed knows his kimchee. also check out Oxford Encyclopedia of Food and Drink in America 2-Volume Set Edited by Andrew F. Smith 0195154371, hardback, 1584 pages Dec 2004, there's an article about the history of kimchee which shold place things into perspective. Link: http://thehyonion.blogspot.com/ Wed Feb 02 17:57:06 -0800 2005 1662531 0 helen 1 1662598 This is one of the all-time great Chowhound threads. Wed Feb 02 23:13:53 -0800 2005 1662464 0 Buford 1 1662600 I agree that the napa cabbage kimchi is a good place to start. (I've always written it as kimchi but I wonder if that's changed with the new romanization of the Korean language.) You might want to take a look at the ingredient label (if there is one) to see if there is dried fish or fish sauce in there. A lot kimchi from the southern and southwestern parts of S. Korea tend to make a more fishy kimchi than the northern parts of S. Korea. One of my favorites is the cucumber stuffed kimchi - fresh, tangy, and spicy. It's typically a summer kimchi but some Korean grocery stores in Santa Clara in the South Bay do have it all year round. Click on the "English" hyperlink on the left side and then click on a topic - a fairly comprehensive primer. Link: http://park.org/Cdrom/Pavilions/Kimchi/index.html Thu Feb 03 01:12:59 -0800 2005 1662464 0 Eurie 2 1662601 Wow. Outstanding web site. Thanks. I get more and more amazed. I am so excited about doing some kim chee hunting. Thu Feb 03 01:50:52 -0800 2005 1662600 0 Krys Stanley 1 1663054 Don't buy Japanese made kimchee, it's not the same thing, not as full flavored. There was something several years ago where Koreans were loudly protesting the japanese using the word "kimchee" to describe it even. Mmmmmmmm kimchee! Among many other things, just for fun, it's really good on a hotdog! Thu Feb 10 17:52:01 -0800 2005 1662464 0 shrimpbird