299465 Thu Dec 16 01:30:13 -0800 2004 32 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1659179 Just saw it at my local TJ's at 3rd and La Brea in Los Angeles, $4.99 for one ball in water. I had tasted some buffalo mozzarella from a small cheese shop in Florence, Italy and was surprised by the extremely different texture and sour flavor. The exterior was firm, slightly rubbery, and the interior was soft, almost to the point of being like a brie, as if the cheese felt like it hadn't quite formed yet. After a lifetime of eating bland mozzarella, I don't think I was quite ready for this. So when I saw it at my local TJ's, I figured I'd bite (literally!) again. This cheese was made with pasteurized milk, and the flavor was slightly less sour than I remember.... but tasted largely the same. I know real buffalo mozzarella is a delicacy, but I simply can't get past the sour flavor of it. What is a proper preparation for real buffalo milk mozzarella? Do people often eat it with a drizzle of olive oil and some proscuitto? Melted on pizza? What am I missing here? Thanks 'hounds Mr. Taster Thu Dec 16 01:30:13 -0800 2004 0 Mr. Taster 1 1659185 My favorite way is with really good tomatoes, some fresh basil, salt, pepper, maybe some capers, and some great oil and vinegar. Bufalo mozz is too good to hide in a baked dish. Thu Dec 16 07:04:01 -0800 2004 1659179 0 coll 2 1659221 Have you experienced the sourness that I have referred to? Mr. Taster Thu Dec 16 13:37:43 -0800 2004 1659185 0 Mr. Taster 1 1659194 I find most good grocery stores have buffalo milk mozz. It doesn't mean it's too authentic or good, so you have to shop around. But I like it plain, in a caprese salad, a capese sandwich, or just a few thin slices on a pizza. Grab one of those herbed pizza doughs at TJ's, some of their good bottled sauces and make yourself a pizza! Sadly, my local TJs no longer carry the Batali sauces. I asked and the guy I spoke with indicated prices went up and they're finishing off their stock (at those stores that still have some). Good luck finding it, stock up if you can. Dax Thu Dec 16 10:51:49 -0800 2004 1659179 0 Dax 2 1659197 Argh. Thanks for the warning on the sauce. We'll stock up now. We knew it would be too good to last. Thu Dec 16 11:23:18 -0800 2004 1659194 0 JudiAU 1 1659198 I always thought if it was sour, it had gone off. I've had buffalo & burratta that was not sour - any input from those that know Italian cheeses? And I agree, a Caprese salad is always the best use of good mozzarella! Thu Dec 16 11:27:14 -0800 2004 1659179 0 torta basilica 2 1659210 I stand open to correction, but my understanding was that the specific bufala in question were a fairly small population and came from the south of Italy (vs. Tuscany) and that to be worth eating, the cheese must be exceptionally fresh - to the point where it was not really worth shipping around the world. I had been told (though I don't remember when or where) that even places that flew it in for enormous sums, couldn't get and keep it fresh enough to be worth the money. I don't know for sure, I merely pass this on - especially regarding the "sourness" questions. I thought real moz. di b. was not at all sour, but delicate and a bit grassy. Thu Dec 16 12:22:41 -0800 2004 1659198 0 mrbarolo 3 1659213 I would as well. Knowing that they have ben raising buffalo on Catalina Island (about 35 miles west of Los Angeles - and where the TJs store OP said purchased mozza), it might be possible they are actually using buffalo milk. I don't know where TJs cheese factory is. But the buffalo (the main ingredient in buffalo milk mozzarella) are close enough to consider it if in CA. (However, the buffalo are being moved out of state next month). I, personally, have never tasted actual buffalo milk, so I can't comment on the exact flavor. That said, many people mis-name the fresh, in-the- water mozzarella or burrata mozza as buffalo milk mozzarella when it is not actually buffalo. So, I see where you may have your doubts. Especially since there are so many Food & Drug hurdles to jump in the dairy industry. I think people are using the term "buffalo" mozzarella just to distinguish the difference between the many seal wrapped mozzas and the ones packed in water. But, you're right, originally, mozzarella had to be consumed within two days because of the freshness factor while other cheeses would age and be transportable to any distance. I also heard you are supposed to daily change the water those fresh mozzas are packed in and, most packages are sealed until used by consumer. They same they same for tofu. Go figure. Thu Dec 16 12:38:09 -0800 2004 1659210 0 kc girl 4 1659220 I don't have the package in front of me but I'm 90% certain that the TJ's buffalo mozz was imported from Italy... the writing on the package was in italian and it had an american style "nutrition info" sticker pasted over the packaging, as all imported products do. By the way, it's definitely real buffalo milk mozzarella (I would never refer to fresh cow milk mozz as buffalo) that's why it was so expensive at $5.00 a ball (which is cheap by comparison, as there's an Italian deli in burbank that sells it for upwards of $8.00 a ball) But this does raise many questions. I'm really surprised however that I experienced the same sour flavor in Florence that I did at my local TJ's. That's the confusing part, which is why I was fishing for opinions from other hounds who are more experienced in eating the real thing. Mr. Taster Thu Dec 16 13:36:26 -0800 2004 1659213 0 Mr. Taster 5 1659235 mr. taster, have you tried the bubulus bubalis cheese co. here in LA (gardena) that makes buffalo mozzerella? just curious how it compares to your tj sampling. Thu Dec 16 15:07:39 -0800 2004 1659220 0 petradish 6 1659244 Have not tried it-- I'll add it to my list! Mr. Taster Thu Dec 16 16:24:00 -0800 2004 1659235 0 Mr. Taster 4 1659247 First, the buffalo on Catalina Island aren't being raised for agriculture. They're American Bison (Bison bison) that were brought over for filming The Vanishing American. There was an attempt at culling the heard and selling the bison meat. Now, they have found that they do well when shipped to South Dakota - part of the herd was sent and they've acclimated. Plus, they're good for the genetic variation they bring to the herds. If you go to the link below and search for December 14th, you can hear more on catalina bison. The whole herd is not being moved. Second, the buffalo mozzarella comes from the water buffalo, bubalus bubalis, which the company in Gardena has used for its own name. Just for fun, there's also an African buffalo (Syncerus caffer), and a European bison no relation to the water buffalo, sometimes called the wisent which is wild and highly endangered. Link: http://www.scpr.org/programs/talkcity/index.shtml Thu Dec 16 16:44:13 -0800 2004 1659213 0 Jerome 1 1659203 sounds like you've been reared/trained..on the the wrong cheese....get used to the real stuff now Thu Dec 16 11:45:06 -0800 2004 1659179 0 doc 2 1659206 Hasn't everyone in America been reared/trained on the "wrong" mozzarella? My real question is whether the sourness of the buffalo mozzarella is a trademark characteristic of buffalo milk, the way the tang of a chevre is the trademark flavor of goat cheese? Also, how does my experience measure up with your experiences with buffalo mozzarella? Mr. Taster Thu Dec 16 11:55:09 -0800 2004 1659203 0 Mr. Taster 1 1659216 You wrote: "Do people often eat it with a drizzle of olive oil and some proscuitto?" Fresh mozzarella (don't know if it was buffalo??) was used on a plate in the tasting menu at Four Seasons hotel in Newport Beach (Pavilions) yesterday. They served it in a (small) stack of cheese, tomatoe, cheese, tomatoe, cheese (about 2" diameter) with a piece of basil on top. (no drizzles) Next to that (counter clockwise on the plate) was a balsamic glazed mixed green salad. Next to that (cc also) was a piece of procuitto rolled long (like a cigar). Next to that, was a 1/4" circle of heavy balsamic vinegar that had been trailed with a knife a little (like a teardrop). That completed the circle on the plate. (Incidently, the dessert was to die for! And very low cal. - an expertly poached red pear (not peeled) lightly fumed with apple pie spice set on a bed of creme anglaise with an angel wrapping of filo dough (like a pashmina) and cognac soaked blackberries with a berry puree on the plate; oh so delicious and light) Thu Dec 16 12:55:29 -0800 2004 1659179 0 kc girl 1 1659223 I can't remember a sour taste or not the few times I've eaten it. However, according to the link below you are right on the mark. Link: http://www.babbonyc.com/ingredient-mozz.html Thu Dec 16 14:00:25 -0800 2004 1659179 0 dt 1 1659227 Currently living in Bologna; I buy massive balls of mozzarella di bufala off the back of a truck that is driven up from Campania every Tuesday. For price comparisons, I think I pay three euros for a largish specimen. I reccomend you do what I did; buy a good ball of buffalo and fior di latte (cow's milk) mozzarella, and try them side by side. I found that cow's milk is definitely sweeter, but that the milky texture of the buffalo milk ball was much better than the other's rubberiness. Comparing the two like this might give you an appreciation of their comaparative qualities. Yes, buffalo mozzarella definitely has a sourish tang to it. However, I have never found it overpowering. When I open the bag, I actually rinse the ball under running cold water. There will still be a slight sourness to the cheese inside, but less strong. After the initial shock, I've come to love it - it's such an unusual, intriguing element to it. In terms of storage, the cheese guy (with the van) actually told me NOT to store it in the fridge, but leave it on a coolish shelf. Even after you've opened it! I must admit that I do refridgerate the ball once opened, though. I put it in a bowl or teacup, cover it with cold water, and then seal it in plastic wrap. My favourite way of eating it (after just ripping chunks off it with my fingers) is to cook pasta (barilla, de cecco), chop cherry tomatoes, shred basil, slice some red onion very finely, and then toss all together with some s&p and EVOO in the still warm pasta pot with shredded mozzarella, stirring to prevent the cheese from clumping. This way the mozzarella will be slightly melty, but not cooked, so you get both the delicate fresh flavour, and an intensified softness of texture. Another tip - never cut mozzarella with a knife; always shred it with your fingers. Part of the beauty of a good ball of mozzarella is the texture; it's a ball of layered threads. Shredding allows it to break up retaining its long threadlike form. Enjoy! Thu Dec 16 14:30:27 -0800 2004 1659179 0 kate 2 1659230 wow what a great post! Thank you for these suggestions and info... I visited bologna in June 2003 (on the same trip I visited the cheese shop in firenze). I think I'll buy some fresh basil tonight. I have some black truffle evoo... do you think this would be too overpowering? Mr. Taster Thu Dec 16 14:36:16 -0800 2004 1659227 0 Mr. Taster 3 1659284 I'm glad the post was helpful. I suggest you try/test the truffle oil. Take a tiny bit of mozzarella, and then dip it in a couple drops of truffle oil that you've put on a plate (better than trying to drip a drop or two directly onto the mozzarella). then you'll be able to tell. I'm leaning towards no, since why make two magical things (truffles and mozzarella) compete with each other, when they both have subtle tastes? For example, I like truffles with plain pasta and a bit of butter, so the truffle can be the star. Mozzarella works in the same way for me. but the only way to know for you is to try. Mozzarella, thanks to the cost and the rarity, is something of a ritual for me. Please let us know what you do in the end, and how it goes. Fri Dec 17 09:39:11 -0800 2004 1659230 0 kate 2 1659231 Thanks for the 'no knife' tip! Thu Dec 16 14:45:33 -0800 2004 1659227 0 Athena 1 1659236 Mr. Taster, I'm starting to realize how much you like TJ's...I do too. I haven't had tons of experience sampling dif. buffalo mozz., but seems to me that a good one should have a bit of sourness to it. I love when it's very soft and delicate. As others have said, I most enjoy it during the height of tomato season in a caprese salad. Since it's nearly winter, here's what I would do instead: Buy at TJ's: premade pizza dough, pesto, red grape tomatoes, and of course the MOZZ; chianti if you want some wine Preheat oven to highest temp. Let dough come to room temp. Roll out as thin as you can w/o tearing it. I usually split my dough into 2-3 balls for individual size servings. Make sure to use some flour while you're working w/ the dough. Lightly drizzle olive oil on dough circle, place on baking sheet or pizza stone in middle of oven. Bake ONLY dough until it's done, about +/-10 min. but watch carefully. Take out and layer: pesto, sliced mozzarella rounds (I personally wouldn't grate or shred; if you don't want to use knife, then plain floss works well), and halved grape tomatoes. Put under BROILER until cheese has melted somewhat but NOT browned or oozing. Should only take 1-2 min. Take out and drizzle a little more oil if you like. Buon appetito! BTW, if you don't want to deal w/ the pizza dough, then I've done this kind of thing w/ flour tortillas or pita bread. Thu Dec 16 15:10:44 -0800 2004 1659179 0 Carb Lover 2 1659251 My name is Mr. Taster and I'm a TJ's addict. Thanks for the great suggestion.... I will definitely make this soon. Usually I used canned tomatoes in the off season, but I'll try your grape tomato suggestion--where do you buy yours? I don't think I've ever seen them. I usually shop at 3rd and Fairfax or West Hollywood. Mr. Taster Thu Dec 16 17:00:25 -0800 2004 1659236 0 Mr. Taster 3 1659253 I don't know if they're exactly called "grape tomatoes" at TJ's, but they're just the little bite-sized, oval-shaped ones in the plastic box. I don't know how these are grown, but for some reason, this variety seems to taste ok to me during the off season. The flash of heat under the broiler once they are split in half (put cut side up) will improve their flavor too. I usually shopped at the TJ's in Silver Lake or Glendale. Of course, you should be able to get grape tomatoes at Von's or Ralph's too. Thu Dec 16 17:08:16 -0800 2004 1659251 0 Carb Lover 4 1659322 There are some tomatoes called "pearl" and are like a mini (cherry) tomato. They are often very red and tasty, especially when kept out ot the refigerator (up to a week). The small tomatoes on the vine are also flavorful. Those and some good deli olives are very good with the mozza. Fri Dec 17 12:26:49 -0800 2004 1659253 0 kc girl 1 1659243 More on the science (and some guess work) As you said, the TJ cheese uses pasteurized milk, as do all (legal) fresh cheeses imported to the US. The pasteurization process kills off some of the more subtle flavors one might experience in Europe. (Good flavors, bad flavors, flavors of the grasses the animal ate, good and bad bacteria...no editorializing, just "subtle".) Whole cows milk tends to: 87% water & minerals; 0.4% Albuminous protein; 3.3% Casein; 4.8% Lactose; 3.8% Butterfat; 0.7% Salts. Buffalo milk, by contrast, is: 85.0%, 0.7%, 3.8%, 4.5%, 6.0%, 0 salts. The guesswork is that slightly less sugar (lactose) and no salt in Buffalo milk makes the combination seem more sour. A mouthfeel/sensory perception rather than reality. As to the soft interior, it might come from the cooling. Since the cheese is made by pulling, a la saltwater taffy, the cheese is completely mixed. The outer shell can get hard and insulate the interior. From my experience, more retained whey (less working of the cheese) might result in a 'softer' interior while the outside would be hard from air drying. I've never found it as soft as ripe brie except when hot, but I've never made it from buffalo milk. Thu Dec 16 16:09:09 -0800 2004 1659179 0 SteveT 2 1659324 The Mozzarella di Bufala Campana from Trader Joes is packed in water and is soft through and through with very little stringiness. Ingredients list the pasturised buffalo's milk, salt, and rennet. The inside of the "Mandara" by Alival Formaggi Italiane labelled ball of bufalo cheese it is a little more yellow that the outer part touching the water, which is quite white. The flavor is only slightly sour. Definitely a different taste, though subtle, than that made with cow's milk. I think I like the cow's milk fresh mozza packed in water more than the bufala. And, thanks Mr. Taster for the heads up of finding it at Trader Joe's (got some in Irvine at University Center). I probably would have felt a little disappointed if I went all the way to Italy for it if it tastes the same there. I get no kick from the slightly sour rendition. But, it is an experience. Fri Dec 17 12:38:53 -0800 2004 1659243 0 kc girl 1 1659245 Just as a side note: bubalus bubalis which has its water buffalo cows in Chino and the plant in Gardena makes a fantastic buffalo milk ricotta. It is the most refreshing and delicious ricotta I've ever had. Strongly recommend. They're in the phone book and will take phone orders. 562 I think. Thu Dec 16 16:28:18 -0800 2004 1659179 0 Jerome 2 1659246 oops mr. taster, i saw your name on hot posts and just assumed this was the laboard - ouch. i rarely post here. (I also saw carblover so i was sure it was the la board) OK - SINCE this isn't the LA board, I've now gone to more effort. If you call this place, they ship great mozzarella di bufala, scamorza, smoked buffalo milk mozzarella, buffalo milk ricotta which is amazing and if you beg and plead and they're in the mood, they'll sell (don't quote me) their burrata which is usually pre-bought by local restaurants. 310-515-0500 ( i slightly regret letting non-locals in on this, might affect our supply ) Link: http://www.farmersmarketonline.com/mozzarelladibufala.htm Thu Dec 16 16:32:53 -0800 2004 1659245 0 Jerome 3 1659249 BTW (making up for feeling silly, Mr. Taster) Gelson's sells bubalus bubalis. And Costco sells it at a lower price than you can get buying directly, at least that's what Bubablus Bubalis told me on the phone (and it was true, 2 balls for about $8, each ball sells for 9 or 10 at gelsons and a little less mail order from them directly). Thu Dec 16 16:45:54 -0800 2004 1659246 0 Jerome 4 1659250 Hey thanks for the tip, Jerome-- I have a friend who lives in Torrance and every time I see a south bay posting, I send her the link and say "add to our list!!". So your rec has been "added to our list!!" (she's italian too, so it's perfect...!) Welcome to the General Topics board :-) Mr. Taster Thu Dec 16 16:53:42 -0800 2004 1659249 0 Mr. Taster 5 1659310 Jerome, Thanks for the info on buffalo milk ricotta. I didn't know we had a local source. Fri Dec 17 11:35:16 -0800 2004 1659250 0 JudiAU 6 1659392 Nice bonus on the (water) buffalo milk ricotta: supposedly lactose-intolerant folks can eat it with no ill effect (or ill affect even). Sat Dec 18 01:27:59 -0800 2004 1659310 0 Jerome 1 1659328 OK, after all my mumbo jumbo about the sourness of that buffalo mozzarella I bought, here's what happened. I had one of those handmade imported-from-italy TJ's frozen pizza (quattro formaggio). I decided to top my pizza with the buffalo mozz (voila... cinque formaggio!), hand shredded, per the post below. Before shredding, however, I decided to try and press out as much water as I could, which I did. But here's the shocking part-- I had changed the water once already, and it appears that 24 hours in fresh water drew the sourness out of the cheese! (Also I had cut into the cheese, so the soft interior was exposed to the fresh water as well). I could hardly believe it. I tasted the cheese and it was creamy and wonderful. As someone mentioned, TJ's buffalo mozz did not shred very easily, as the center of the cheese is quite moist, and it pulled apart into several mushy globs which I them had to spread on top of the frozen pizza with my fingers. despite this, I still wound up with too much water on the top of my pizza. But the combination of the non-sour buffalo mozz with the pizza was really quite wonderful. I'll have to go back and try the basil and grape tomato recipes with a fresh ball! Thanks again Mr. Taster Fri Dec 17 13:28:01 -0800 2004 1659179 0 Mr. Taster