298466 Tue Sep 14 17:14:35 -0700 2004 33 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1650430 Some time back there was a lot of buzz about Trader Joe's "Two Buck Chuck" wines. I recently purchased the Charles Shaw Cab Sauv, 2002, and it was truly awful. Are any of the others any good? Tue Sep 14 17:14:35 -0700 2004 0 Bryan Harrell 1 1650433 No. Our name is "Two Buck Upchucked" I cringe (& usually leave immediately!) when I go to parties where it's being served. Tue Sep 14 17:36:58 -0700 2004 1650430 0 torta basilica 1 1650435 It's a motley assortment. I don't pretend to inside dope on the wine industry, but a lot of labels are really sort of fake products in that a negociant or shipper buy grapes from any number of growers and bottles them and gives the resulting wine a name. The label may suggest that there's a picturesque winery out there somewhere with a family working away for generations. There isn't. Just surplus grapes from around the region bottled and shipped with a pretty label. I'm not panning negociant wines - certainly in the French sense where someone can buy and bottle with care and taste. But 2 Buck Chuck is just what you said you experienced. There's no 2 Buck Chuck farm with master winemaker chuck working his $2 magic. I find some of the labelling on some of the wines suspicious. E.g. - a label on one of their Barolos refers to "barolo" grapes. There aren't any "barolo" grapes, to the best of my knowledge. There are nebbiolo grapes and their clones, michet and lampet (if memory serves) which, grown inside the geographic boundaries of Barolo, and vinified according to the ruless, get to be called Barolo wine. Yet the bottle has the DOCG label on the neck, so I'm not sure what to make of it. But at 1/2 to 1/3 the price of a normal barolo, I'm suspicious of the whole enterprise. Another label refers to a "secret ingredient." Me, I don't like secret ingredients in wine. Maybe its a little cabernet. Maybe it's MSG. I don't really want to know. Still, I have purchased a few things for well under $10 and some have been fine for every day drinking. I would try some of the Montepulciano d'Abruzzos, some of the Spanish wines, etc. They also have some labels that you will actually see in other stores, but these are not priced much cheaper than you'll see elsewhere either. E.g. Perrin cotes du Rhone. Sorry to be vague. I'm typing fast without time to double check everything at the moment. If more knowledgeable wine folks can expand or correct any of the above, please do. I don't pretend to exhaustive knowledge here. Tue Sep 14 17:48:12 -0700 2004 1650430 0 mrbarolo 2 1650442 Charles Shaw is a label of the Bronco Wine Co., which is also the outfit behind a bunch of other labels including Napa Ridge. They started Napa Ridge during the previous wine glut cycle when there was a lot of pretty good chardonnay available cheap. The early batches won some awards and favorable press comments. Within two years the quality had taken a dive while the prices went up. Charles Shaw wines have a reputation for WIDELY varying quality from batch to batch. For example, one "2002 shiraz won a double gold medal at the International Eastern Wine Competition in Corning, NY" according to Bill Daley's wine column in The Chicago Tribune last week. I bought a bottle of the same vintage recently but before the column came out. It was some of the worst red wine I have had in years. The few Charles Shaw wines I have tasted have not made me want to taste any more. I am not linking to the column "The Rise of Plonk" because it will be in the paid-only archive in a few hours. Trader Joe's has some decent inexpensive wines under other labels along with some of dubious quality at best. Tue Sep 14 18:18:23 -0700 2004 1650435 0 Eldon Kreider 1 1650440 The Chard is the closest ol' Chuck has to palatable wine. Tue Sep 14 18:01:29 -0700 2004 1650430 0 TomSwift 1 1650443 While they vary as other posters have mentioned, I find that the shiraz and chard can be quaffable. While I certainly prefer much finer wines, my thirst seems to out pace my budget... and for this reason I thank Mr. Shaw :-) Tue Sep 14 18:27:35 -0700 2004 1650430 0 SLRossi 2 1650452 I agree about the Shiraz. It's way more than I'd expect for two dollars. More drinkable than most low end bottles, 4-6 dollars a pop, sold in regular chain supermarkets. I even once returned a bottle of Shaw Shiaz as it had "turned". Tue Sep 14 19:08:37 -0700 2004 1650443 0 2chez mike 3 1650456 I don't drink a lot of wine (:-( diabetic), and so for my standards most of the 2 buck chuck is perfectly palatable. The only really awful bottle of Shaw I've had was a Shiraz... don't remember the year. But most of the Sauvignon Blancs and Merlots I've had have been perfectly acceptable to me. A friend and I did, however, made the mistake once of buying a late night bottle of a misc. red at Ralphs once (I think it had a horse on the bottle...) We were stuck on the $2 price point which TJ's had spoiled us with, and so we bought a bottle of this random $2.50 wine... it tasted like someone had put a cigarette out in the batch. FAR worse than even that questionable Shiraz I mentioned above. I think the critical point with shaw is that it's $2.00. Repeat. $2.00. Repeat. $2.00!!! Mr. Taster Tue Sep 14 19:32:50 -0700 2004 1650452 0 Mr. Taster 4 1650470 That $2 bottle of wine at Ralphs is called Deer something-or-other and comes from a winery of the same name located in Woodbridge, California where (surprise) Mondavi's Woodbridge label comes from. Perhaps there is a connection. Tue Sep 14 21:25:19 -0700 2004 1650456 0 Bryan Harrell 5 1650494 Would that be 'Turning Deer Caught in the Headlights?" Wed Sep 15 02:13:04 -0700 2004 1650470 0 torta basilica 5 1650571 It's called Deer Valley. It has been available for a long time at about $4.99 a bottle. The discounted price probably is just to use up the glut of grapes that season. It's not as bad as Charles Shaw and a relatively close price. Two good American chardonnays I found for a low price ($4.99 to $5.99) is (1) M. Ray Chardonnay (2) Concannon Chardonnay Wed Sep 15 14:49:36 -0700 2004 1650470 0 kc girl 1 1650446 What I can't believe is that it's still possible to go to a party where they've bought a case of this for their guests! (I have some very young neighbors.) I was quite happy with my box of Black Box merlot. It's not quite as cheap as Charles Shaw, but much more palatable for an informal party. Link: http://www.blackboxwines.com/merlot.htm Tue Sep 14 18:40:13 -0700 2004 1650430 0 Chowpatty 1 1650460 i agree that the shiraz can be drinkable. try the sav blanc _well_ chilled :) and spanish style wine glasses that are like small and tall juice glasses help. straight down without bringing out too much of the bouquet, ahem aroma. well, on a hot afternoon the white isn't such bad plonk if you're going to have more than a few! Tue Sep 14 19:42:42 -0700 2004 1650430 0 maitre du pinard 1 1650517 I think that the phenomenon of Shaw is a striking parallel to the phenomenon of TJ's itself. Consider that TJ's goal is not to bring "the best" necessarily, but to deliver high value. Now while some hounds would question Shaw's quality, I say find another $2.00 wine that is comparable. Of course you could always spend a few dollars more to get a higher grade of wine, but that's breaking the rules! Seriously though, for all of the oenophiles out there-- is there a comparable wine to CS **without** breaking the $2.00 price point? Mr. Taster Wed Sep 15 12:13:23 -0700 2004 1650430 0 Mr. Taster 2 1650520 Can this stuff be found anywhere besides TJ? Would I be correct in assuming that even if it's not great drinking, that it would be good enough for those times you need to dump a whole bottle in the pot of coq au vin or beef stew? (it really bothers me to pour good wine in a Dutch oven) Wed Sep 15 12:23:28 -0700 2004 1650517 0 danna 3 1650526 Charles Shaw is a TJ's exclusive label. As for quality, my experience is that people who are even slightly oenophilic tend to dismiss it. People who are more casual drinkers find it perfectly serviceable. But as people have noted, it is sometimes not consistent in quality (because I believe they get their grapes from multiple sources), though I have tasted far more good bottles than bad. I feel it is a fine basic table wine... not one to savor but to drink. In a cup. With a big bowl of red sauce spaghetti & meatballs, and a bunch of friends. Mr. Taster Link: http://www.traderjoes.com/new/chuckshaw.asp Wed Sep 15 12:54:26 -0700 2004 1650520 0 Mr. Taster 3 1650637 THAT's the beauty of this stuff. I keep a couple of bottles of Shiraz in my rack specifically for cooking. Quaffing a glass might be a different story, but it's perfectly ok as an ingredient Wed Sep 15 20:22:17 -0700 2004 1650520 0 peg 4 1650641 Only if you have the right vintage (or maybe batch is the right word). 2001 had abolutely no flavor. Useless as an ingredient. Wed Sep 15 21:22:38 -0700 2004 1650637 0 wally 5 1650746 ...always taste before you upend an entire bottle into a stew or coq au vin. But remember, if it's not up to snuff, TJ's will give you your money back, anyway. I don't think you can lose. DISCLAIMER: Mind you, I am referring ONLY to the Shiraz. $3.99 Cabernet is invariably going to taste like burnt rubber. Thu Sep 16 21:00:02 -0700 2004 1650641 0 peg 3 1650665 I'm in the "not good enough to drink, not good enough to cook with" camp. I wouldn't cook with the stuff. I make beef bourguignon with reduced red wine. The other ingredients are expensive enough that I'm not going to save that much by using cheap wine anyway, and the dish won't be nearly as good. If I want cheap wine, I buy a 1 1/2 liter bottle of an Italian wine such as Sangiovese. Thu Sep 16 09:56:33 -0700 2004 1650520 0 bibi rose 3 1650669 I really wouldn't. I tried this with another bottle of wine we didn't want to drink, and that beef stew was the only batch I've ever made that wasn't gobbled up. It wasn't bad exactly, it just tasted not right. So now I'm in the camp of don't cook with it unless you would drink it. Thu Sep 16 10:52:42 -0700 2004 1650520 0 Jujubee 2 1650531 There are many wines from CHINA and CHILI sold at liquor stores for $1.99. Some are OK, some aren't, just like 2 buck Chuck and TJ's(as a whole). Wed Sep 15 12:58:22 -0700 2004 1650517 0 Rene Themo 3 1650534 Any specifics & where to find them? I'd love to do a blind tasting. Mr. Taster Wed Sep 15 13:07:45 -0700 2004 1650531 0 Mr. Taster 4 1650686 Have you tried Georges DuBoeuf Beaujolais? It's around a fiver at Sam's Club or Costco and a nice light & fruity table wine. Thu Sep 16 13:16:20 -0700 2004 1650534 0 Twodales 2 1650538 It's three buck chuck in Massachusetts. Wed Sep 15 13:19:06 -0700 2004 1650517 0 Dax 3 1650609 They don't call it Taxachusetts for nothing, eh? Wed Sep 15 17:36:11 -0700 2004 1650538 0 MidtownCoog 3 1650618 Chicago, too. Wed Sep 15 18:01:13 -0700 2004 1650538 0 Grace 3 1650629 My understanding is that it is three bucks everywhere except California. Wed Sep 15 19:10:45 -0700 2004 1650538 0 Eldon Kreider 2 1650660 For me, I would rather drink less and drink better quality wine. Yeah, the best value for 2 bucks. Two addages come to mind 1. you get what you pay for 2. life is too short to drink bad wine now that said, this is JUST my opinion and NOT meant as a flame. Thu Sep 16 09:37:28 -0700 2004 1650517 0 thegreek 2 1650663 For me, I would rather drink less and drink better quality wine. Yeah, the best value for 2 bucks. Two addages come to mind 1. you get what you pay for 2. life is too short to drink bad wine now that said, this is JUST my opinion and NOT meant as a flame. Thu Sep 16 09:48:32 -0700 2004 1650517 0 thegreek 1 1650583 I haven't seen any of the two-buck Chuck, but can offer the following testimonial for boxed wines, some of which cost even less. After temping for the past year, and the occasional (mis)use of the credit card for a really nice chateauneuf du pape or zinfandel, it's down to this: I'm drinking mainly boxed wines. (Don't scoff, all you snobs, it's a lot better than no wine at all!) Through the summer I've tried the chards from Black Box, Banrock Station, Delicato, (all about $4-$5 a bottle equivalent) and Almaden's Mountain Chablis. While the Black Box is arguably better I actually prefer the Banrock Station as it's much less in the California chard way-fruit-forward vein. The Banrock is tasty enough, easy enough to drink, has enough fruit and tartness to be refreshing without going so far over the top. Others will definitely prefer the Black Box, and I'll admit to drinking three glasses the first time out, "just to see how it was." The Delicato is a bit sweet, so that one's out, but I've ended up with several boxes of the Almaden as it's easily drinkable with no hard edges or off tastes, and is equivalent in cost to a $1.67 bottle, tax included, from Warehouse, Broadway at Astor Place, NYC. (This stuff is cheaper than any 6-pack of beer I can find in NYC!) And, it's consistent, as is the Almaden Mountain Burgundy, also at $1.67. In the cooler months it's mainly the red, again quite drinkable, no hard edges or bad points, though it's a more raisin-y flavor than I'd prefer, but especially after the 1st glass, it goes down easily enough. Every now and then I'll move upscale (LOL) to the $3-equivalent George DeBoeuf Vins du Table Cuvee Rouge or Blanc, in 1.5 liter magnums, both better than either Almaden, and worth the extra money, if you've got it. After opening, however, they keep only fairly well for the next day, not that I ever have a problem with that. Wed Sep 15 15:19:50 -0700 2004 1650430 0 peakie 2 1650617 In a side-by-side comparison by a number of snooty San Franciscans, a glass of Gallo Hearty Burgundy handily beat any reds offered by Charles Shaw. Wed Sep 15 17:56:12 -0700 2004 1650583 0 caliston 2 1651074 I first tried the boxed wines just about a year ago (I had tried the less "classy" and larger boxed wines over the years aka as bag of fun!) I first tried the Hardy's and was rather impressed I served it at Thanksgiving last year and the consenses was very positive> (this is a semi-snob group so this is good!) I have since tried the Black Box and really like this one also. We had a rather formal wedding here this summer and I opted to go with the Hardy's and Black Box both white and red--overall guests were surprised but enjoyed the wine! Not sure I would bring it to a house as a hostess gift--BUT it is my standard house wine--love to see the looks I get from guests! Mon Nov 01 21:40:05 -0800 2004 1650583 0 Kerry 1 1650615 Charles Shaw wines ( Two Buck Chuck) are terrible...don't buy them from Trader Joe's. Leave it so that we wine connoiseurs will have a supply. Especially don't buy the Shiraz, which took second place in a recent East Coast wine review. Wed Sep 15 17:49:03 -0700 2004 1650430 0 Jim H.