best premium wine in a box?

[Chowpatty]

I recently tried the Delicato merlot in a box from Trader Joe's (about $17 I think?). It has four bottles worth in it. It wasn't bad, but I was hoping it would be even better, since I don't go through much wine and a box is supposed to last a month. I'd like to try a box again for a camping trip in a few weeks -- has anyone tried a good red?

[Melanie Wong]

Two months ago I tried about six different bag in box wines from Hardy's and Black Box. The best two to my palate were both from Black Box - the Monterey County Chardonnay and the Sonoma County Merlot. I was really surprised at how much regional character was captured.

[schpsychman]

Premium wine in a box? Now THAT is an oxymoron! In my opinion any wine that comes in a box is not worth drinking.

[Sthitch]

You might wish to drop a little of your pretension, as it is not an oxymoron. Just as a screw top no longer determines if a wine is cheap, in some parts of the world neither does a box. If you were to adventure to Australian, you would find that quality box wine outsells its bottled rivals. We are not talking about “Hearty Burgundy”, “Mountain Chablis”, or “White Zinfandel”, but wines comparable to some of Penfold’s lower labels. I have not heard of any that have yet made there way to American shores that have this same quality, but there are some Australian companies that are planning to do so soon. Why would you want wine in a box? No chance of corking, easily drink wine by the glass, and easy storage of the wine. This is only an option for wines that are ready to drink.

[sbp]

Why? I'm in the wine business -- the FINE wine business, and believe me, this is being seriously looked at (as are alternative closures). When 10% of your product is ruined by tainted cork, and 2-Buck Chuck outsells good quality $10-20/bottle wine by a 100-1 margin, you can bet there is a drive to offer the good stuff at a better value. And boxed wine is a better value -- more wine per container and a lighter container translates into lower packing and shipping costs. There is no corked bottle problems, and the wines keep longer without oxidizing because of the vacuum effect of the bag.

What is it about a box that means the wine is no good? Are you telling me that if Domaine de la Romanee Conti packed 3 liters of La Tache in a box, you would spit it out as undrinkable?

[blosomessentials]

what makes wine in a box desirable for me is not really the cost, but the recycle ability of it. where i live, our recycle center does not accept or recycle glass, which makes me think twice about what I buy. my thought is, if the container, of anything I buy, has to go into the trash bin, and not the recycle bin, then i really don't need it.

that being said, because i do enjoy a good glass of wine, i am willing to consider boxed wine... IF the piece that holds the liquid is also recyclable.

Any suggestions?

[DivaSheila]

I am anxiously awaiting a broader selection of good boxed wines. I have heard about the Australian wines and look forward to seeing them on American shelves. My husband doesn't drink so when I open a bottle I end up always drinking more than one glass because I don't want to waste it! Boxed wine would be a great answer for me. Just for fun I tried Target's boxed wines - bleah. Okay to cook with, though!

[steakandeggs]

I gotta admit, it sounds nasty, but in fact, the ability to keep wine fresher, much longer, without corking is key. wine packaging is continuing to evolve, as it has for all the time it's been made. I love my bottles on the shelves, waiting for years to be opened, but I have been disappointed more than once by corked wine.

[bob192]

As usual, Ms. Wong, thank you for that opinion; saw the Delicato and the Black Box chards yesterday, passed on both, now will go back for the Black Box and throw it in the fridge for something cold after work (besides a vodka tonic, that is!)
Have bought several boxes of Bancroft Station Syrah, it comes out to $4.00 bottle equivalent, and while not great, it's a decent bottle of $4.00 wine if that's your price range. Might make a good party wine.

[Melanie Wong]

Black Box makes more than one chard. While I liked the first release, 2002 Napa Valley Chard, in the next vintage, I liked the Monterey better. What I liked about the Black Box wines is that they're not made in the tutti-frutti and slightly sweet style common to under $10 Calif. wines.

I'm glad that you've tried the Bancroft, as it gives you an idea of what to expect at this pricepoint. For the $4 bottle equivalent, you should be getting something that would run $7 to $10 in a 750ml.

I've also heard that the Le Cask Zinfandel is worth drinking, but I haven't sampled it yet.

[deweyman]

Melanie,
Black Box now has a Paso Robles cabernet, too. IMHO, it far outshines their merlot. The best red I've had so far. The Le Cask Zin will appeal to those who like a big, jammy, and slightly sweet style of zin, but I found it a bit cloying. Jean-Marc Brocard, of Chablis fame, has a white Burgundy (100% chard, from the region around Chablis) that is crisp, minerally and un-oaked, and quite nice for the style (think Petite Chablis). This has recently been joined by a Bourgogne Rouge, but I haven't tasted that one yet.

Cheers!
-Drew

[sbp]

I'm curious -- would you be interested in a bag in box that was somewhat higher end -- and, accordingly, in the $50/box (3 Liter) size? It's a lot to pay at once, but reflects only $12.50/bottle equivalent, and you would be getting value of about a $20/bottle wine.

[Chowpatty]

It's not something I would buy often, especially since the Silver Lake Wine Shop is happy to recommend some decent choices at $12.50 a bottle. But I could see how it could be useful for a dinner party or something. For everyday drinking, I think $25 a box is around my limit.

[westsidegal]

would not be interested in a bag in a box at all unless i was traveling and weight was an issue.
in my neck of the woods glass IS recycled by the local sanitation dept and all glass goes in the recyclable bin that is picked up weekly.
for the most part, i try to buy and store my food in glass as opposed to plastic (including polycarbonate, styrofoam, etc).
got rid of most of the tupperware years ago, now only use it for freezing liquids and soupy items.
even buy peanut butter that is sold in glass jars as opposed to plastic ones.

otoh, the screw top bottles are fine with me, and i actually prefer them to corked bottles.

[Jackie]

I haven't had a good red in a box, but from some the posts I've seen, there are some. I've had Delicato Merlot in the bottle, thought it was sooooo bad, I didn't drink the rest of the bottle, and took an unopened one back to T.J. Good luck in your search, and if you do find a good one, let us know!

[Dan G]

I'm curious about the concept of "premium" in this discussion. OP is talking about a wine that is about the equivalent of $4.25/bottle and "wasn't bad...hoping it would be better". Later, stthitch talks about boxed wines comparable to "Penfolds lower labels". Later posts are using terms like "decent" "drinkable" "good party wine" .

What about any of this is premium?

[zin1953]

Are we talking "technical" or "vernacular"? If the latter, nothing about this discussion is "premium." On the other hand, if "technical," then "premium" is defined as (believe it or not) $4-7 a bottle. Ultra- and super-premium are above that.

[Dan G]

where does that technical def'n of premium come from? I have to say, I find it very odd, especially given that I live in Alberta Canada, where it is pretty much impossible to find a bottle for under $10 (or even $12-13 most stores).

[zin1953]

It makes little sense to consumers -- especially in today's market -- but it makes total sense to the "powers that be" who keep track of the statistics surrounding the California wine industry.

The original statistical categories were set up long, long, L-O-N-G ago. Keep in mind at one point, you'd be hard pressed to spend more (at retail) than $6.00 for the finest California Cabernet Sauvignon! Since prices rose significantly faster than inflation, adjusting the price categories made little sense, so they just kept adding new categories. "Standard," "premium," "ultra-premium," "super-premium" . . . . even now, the highest category is defined as "$25 and above, IIRC.

[lanthonytaylor]

Can you tell me the price categories that correspond to the following:
PREMIUM :
SUPER PREMIUM :
ULTRA PREMIUM :
ICON :
thanks
lat

[mmcgurk]

I too suffered from a visceral anti-box bias for decades, based on the crap that used to be sold that way in the '70s.

However, I was re-introduced to boxed wine recently by friends who were themselves encouraged to try it by some neighbors, recent immigrants from France. The French neighbors love the stuff, and said it is very much a coming thing for everyday table wine in Europe because (a) it's economical, (b) in ecological terms it's far greener than bottles, (c) it saves space (always an issue in European kitchens) and is easier to transport, (d) it never goes bad because the plastic bag holds the wine in a vacuum, and (d) the quality and variety available is growing. In my experience, all true.

I have become a total convert and evangelist for the stuff.. I almost always have a box of white in the fridge, and often buy a red for cooking and very casual dinners. Besides Black Box, you can find good flavors in the Bota Box and Angel Fire lines. And there are indeed more lines and varieties coming out all the time.

Don't let bad memories stop you from giving it a whirl.

[njfoodies]

I was at an offline back in November(Wine Berserkers 1.5 - Peking Duck House Manhattan), and there was a bottle of red and a bottle of white going around the room of 45 people wrapped in foil to essentially serve it double blind. Only the person who brought it knew what it was.

I did not get to try the red, however I did try the white. At our table, most everyone thought that it was a white Burgundy, some guessed it was a white from Loire, and others thought is might be something from Israel. I said it was a California wine, maybe a Chablis or sauvignon blanc, or maybe even a fume blanc. I was the closest at our table, but I still got the varietal wrong. Mr. Hack removed the foil and the bottle was a 1950's or '60's white Burgundy or something. However, the bottle was just used as a decoy, and it turns out it was the most recent vintage Black Box chardonnay. You want to talk about heads rolling. I found it amusing, and since then, I have wanted to try it again. Just might have to buy one this summer to pour at one of the blind tastings we host this summer! Could be as amusing as the Yellow Tail and 2 Buck Chuck I threw into a blind red tasting we hosted over Labor Day. Those were obvious to friends, but this one would definitely be tough if it shows anything like the Black Box mentioned above. -mJ

[eclarke]

Lots of snotty, overpriced items are getting their rewards now, here in Wisconsin you can join private country clubs for just the dues now. This stuff is just grape juice...