297717 Tue Jul 06 14:36:38 -0700 2004 34 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1643877 I would like to make a cherry pie. A woman at work told me I have to use sour cherries, and that they are hard to find. Is this true? I just drove to Fairway (I live on Long Island) and could not find any sour cherries - either fresh or frozen. I did find them packed in water in a jar. Are the jarred ones ok to use? Where could i get fresh or frozen ones on Long Island (Trader Joes, Whole Foods, and Kings are all close to me)? Any recipes would also be appreciated. Thanks Tue Jul 06 14:36:38 -0700 2004 0 hammy 1 1643878 Sour cherries are a very fragile and fleeting crop. I have never seen them in a supermarket nor have I seen them frozen. Sweet cherries will not make a good pie. I have used Oregon brand canned sour cherries, sometimes called "pie cherries," in the past. I suggest a hint of almont extract when you make it. The next time I make one I will probably include some plumped up dried cherries as well. Tue Jul 06 14:47:57 -0700 2004 1643877 0 JudiAU 2 1643889 Sweet cherries can make a good pie, especially if you do not over-sweeten and add a little bitof acidity (lemon juice, etc.) I would take fresh sweet cherries over canned/jarred sour cherries any day. The only problem is pitting them by hand will leave your fingers stained red for days. I have not had good luck with tapioca as a thickener in cherry pie - I would use cornstarch. I think adding a handful of dried, rehydrated cherries is a great idea. Tue Jul 06 15:51:43 -0700 2004 1643878 0 tdaaa 3 1643948 Of course, if you have one of those fancy hand-pitting machines it is less messy. I have too many little used instruments in my small drawers and generally halve and pit the cherries with knife and fingers which is why I find it messy. Bing cherries were very cheap this year for about two weeks - I bought a huge amount and used the dehydrator to keep me in dried cherries for the rest of the year. Wed Jul 07 09:45:23 -0700 2004 1643889 0 tdaaa 1 1643894 Trader Joe's carries jarred montmorency cherries, at least in the PNW--I am pretty sure these are tart cherries and just the thing to use for a pie. At my store, they're in the same section as the sugar and other baking items. Cook's Illustrated had an appealing recipe a few years back. Tue Jul 06 16:13:46 -0700 2004 1643877 0 Laurella 1 1643898 sour cherries are in season right now in your region. if you go to your local farmers' market you most likely will find them there. Tue Jul 06 16:51:15 -0700 2004 1643877 0 agirlandamonkey 1 1643901 Trader Joe's usually has jars of Morello cherries, which are sour. They will not offer the same consistency or texture than fresh, but they will have excellent flavor. I love good cherry pie. But I have to say I cannot be bothered pitting fresh cherries; it's just way, way too much bother for the effort. However, it might be an excellent prep job for overy energetic children (outside, of course).... Tue Jul 06 17:26:31 -0700 2004 1643877 0 Karl S. 2 1643913 I used to put my ex to work pitting cherries when I made pie. He got to contribute to the piemaking effort and had a great excuse to sit in front of the TV rather than hang out in the kitchen, and I got to delegate the most annoying task. It didn't take him long at all with one of those handheld pitters, and it wasn't very messy. Cherry pie for breakfast, straight out of the fridge: perfect. Always used sweet cherries, by the way, and the recipe from the Pie and Pastry Bible. Tue Jul 06 19:45:16 -0700 2004 1643901 0 Grace 3 1643923 My Mom always used sweet cherries, too, for her pies and we loved them. Just adjusted the sugar content of the filling and added a little lemon juice. Tue Jul 06 21:09:21 -0700 2004 1643913 0 Colleen 1 1643914 sour cherries are in the nyc greenmarkets now - you can probably find them in your local farmer's market. if not, zuni cafe has a recipe for a sweet cherry tart, which is very similar to a pie. i have made this and did not sweeten the cherries much and it was good (next time i would add some acidity though or maybe try sour cherries). i pitted the cherries and my fingers were not stained red and it wasn't that much of a pain. definitely worth it for the flavor of fresh cherries. Tue Jul 06 19:47:10 -0700 2004 1643877 0 queue 2 1644126 I made a sour cherry pie this weekend and it rocked. There's just no point in making cherry pie with any other kind of cherry! I used about 6 cups of pitted sour cherries (used a great pitter I got at Williams-Sonoma), 1/2 tsp. vanilla, 1 cup sugar, 3 T. cornstarch. Oh, and a trick I heard somehere - a bit of freshly ground pepper - it does subtly set off the sour cherries nicely. That filling was just right. Cathy Thu Jul 08 17:05:53 -0700 2004 1643914 0 Cathy Elton 1 1643918 Cherry pie is traditionally made with sour cherries---usually the variety is "Montmorency". I don't know where you are, but where I am they are nearly impossible to find. Right now they are in the farmers' market for $4 per pint, so you'd need $12 worth of them to make a decent-size cherry pie. In some areas, bags of the frozen sour cherries are sold. You can use the canned "tart" cherries. If you use fresh "eating" cherries (black cherries, Bing cherries) the flavor will not be the same. If you have a yard with some sun, consider planting a Montmorency cherry tree. It will be easy to grow and self-fertile. You do have to spray it to keep the worms out of the fruit. With reasonable care, in a few years you can be harvesting fifty pounds of pie cherries every year. They freeze nicely and can also be used for cobblers and waffle-topping. Tue Jul 06 20:09:28 -0700 2004 1643877 0 N Tocus 1 1643926 I made the BADA BING Cherry Pie from the Epicurious site. It's very easy. It uses (big surprise) Bing Cherries and is delicious. Once I added a handful of dried sour cherries and that was a nice addition. But its really wonderful without them. Link: http://www.epicurious.com/run/recipe/view?id=106716&kw=cherry+pie&action=filtersearch&filter=recipe-filter.hts&collection=Recipes&ResultTemplate=recipe-results.hts&queryType=and&keyword=cherry+pie&submit.x=21&submit.y=3 Tue Jul 06 22:11:25 -0700 2004 1643877 0 beuhlie 2 1644229 I made pie w/ sweet cherries last night. I thought the flavor was fine...didn't use too much sugar and added a squeeze of lemon juice and a pat or two of butter. But the cherries didn't break down at all and release any juices. It was good...but it was basically like eating warm cherries in a pie crust. Do you think I should have used more liquid? Maybe cooked it hotter? I cooked at 375 about 40 minutes. Fri Jul 09 12:32:02 -0700 2004 1643926 0 danna 3 1644233 I've had better success with recipes where the cherry filling is cooked ahead of time, then placed in the crust. Fri Jul 09 12:50:08 -0700 2004 1644229 0 Colleen 1 1643937 This is a timely post because I made my first cherry pie this weekend, and went back and forth about the cherry thing. I had bought a quart of sweet and a quart of sour cherries at the Union Square Greenmarket to use, ( they were all over the place last Wed.) but after reading half a dozen recipes I was convinced that it best to eat the fresh sour cherries and use frozen sour cherries for the pie. I found frozen sour cherries at King Kullen in Hampton Bays; I can't remember the brand. I ended up using a recipe from Epicurious - Old Fashioned Cherry Vanilla Pie, but I eliminated the cinnamon called for, and used vanilla beans instead of vanilla. I also added about a cup of the fresh cherries - both kinds, just to spark it up. Anyway - the pie was fantastic! Had it for dessert on the 4th and it was a hit - I loved the tart/sweet taste and the consistancy was terrific. Good luck with your pie! Tue Jul 06 23:39:34 -0700 2004 1643877 0 hattie 1 1643942 I just finished processing about 50 lbs of sour Montmorency cherries from my tree. What a treat! We usually get late freezes in the valley I live in which does in the pie cherries (and sweet cherries, which bloom even earlier.) But this year, I had a very few sweets and a full crop of pie cherries! First time in 15 years. So, we have been eating cherry pies and I even made a Black Forest Cake - wow! I use the basic fresh cherry pie filling recipe in Joy of Cooking. I also tried the sugar-topped pie from foodtv.com. Both are great. Sour (pie) cherries do have a flavor unlike anything else that taste great in pies. I actually still put a squirt of lemon juice in the filling...it really "brightens" the flavor of the filling. I have made it with lattice tops and with a full top crust. If you use a full top crust, cut some extra slits in it...pie cherries are juicy and you want some of that to evaporate. I use either cornstarch or tapioca to thicken...I prefer tapioca, which is what Joy of Cooking recommends. I will also say that fully ripe pie cherries are not all that sour! I also canned a bunch, froze a bunch and made lots of jam. Guess what everyone's getting for their holiday gifts this year??!! Wed Jul 07 07:51:23 -0700 2004 1643877 0 desert rat 1 1643945 This thread almost inspired me to go buy the big (5kg) pails of fresh pitted local sour cherries available here in Ontario and make a pie. I've always looked at them but I'm not a pie or jam-maker. Then I remembered the excellent sour cherry pie I can buy up the street... Link: http://www.ontariotenderfruit.com/webdev/gossipcherries.htm Wed Jul 07 09:06:18 -0700 2004 1643877 0 julesrules 1 1643964 Montmorency, Morello, Northstar and Meteor are different sour cherries. The upper Midwest had a cold spring and my trees are only now ripening. The Montmorency came in first and I was up at 8:30 to pick cherries for the first pie of the year last Saturday. I'd have to think the cherries in Southern NY are in high or ending their season right now. Further upstate they are probably just beginning. They do freeze very well once they're pitted, so if you do find them frozen don't be scared of them. You need sour cherries for a proper pie. And a good amount of them. Pitting them is a lot easier then pitting sweet cherries and they don't stain your hands. You don't need a pitter. I was given one and consider it a waste of time. If you make your pie dough first, it'll be resting while you pit the cherries. Then when you're done, the pie dough will be ready to roll out. You can pit and watch TV if you want. It's not like you can lose a hand or something. If you have a yard and really want sour cherries, like the other poster recommended, I'd go with the Northstar or Meteor. They are natural dwarfs and produce prodiguous amounts of cherries. The Montmorency is a much larger tree. Wed Jul 07 13:36:39 -0700 2004 1643877 0 muD 1 1643976 unbend one end of a new paperclip w/a needle nose pliers. rebend it to form a tight loop, just big enough to encompass the pit. plunge into the stem end of the cherry & gently pull. Wed Jul 07 14:47:31 -0700 2004 1643877 0 petradish 1 1643985 Just back from the Union Sq farmers market and sour/montmercy were everywhere. Fyi, they're not cheap - @$5/ pint. Good luck with the pie! If for whatever reason you decide against making it - you can always get a great cherry pie from Grand Traverse Pie co shipped right to your door. Link: http://www.gtpie.com Wed Jul 07 16:32:17 -0700 2004 1643877 0 bk 1 1644183 Thanks for all the help. I will drive into the city this weekend to buy fresh sour cherries at the greenmarket to make my pie. How many should I buy for a 9 inch pie? The recipes call for 4 cups - how many pints is that? Also, I thought about buying extra and freezing them - how is the best way to do that - do I wash and pit them first? Is there a big difference betwen cornstarch and instant tapioca? I have cornstarch and was planning on using that, but through my research it looks like instant tapioca is better. I'll report back on my success/failure. Fri Jul 09 07:32:46 -0700 2004 1643877 0 hammy 2 1644191 One of the vendors at the Union Square Greenmarket (from the Hudson Valley - red hook or thereabouts) has in the past sold frozen pitted sour cherries in bulk in the past. You may want to look out for them and see if they have any - they are one of the better apple vendors who at least used to be on the north side of the market - but also have lots of raspberries, cherries and other small fruits in season. If you see thepurple royalty rasberries buy them - they are great. Fri Jul 09 09:22:32 -0700 2004 1644183 0 jen kalb 2 1644205 There is 2 cups to a pint, so four cups is two pints. I'd advise buying a little extra and measuring after pitting. As for preserving, I'd say it was personal choice. My Mom and I have done it both ways--with and without pits. The first year, we pitted a couple of crates of cherries for freezing and canning. The second year, we decided to hell with it, that it would be much less onerous to just pit them as we used them. The only annoying thing about that is that after any kind of preserving they're kind of slippery and squishy, so a little hard to hold on to; on the other hand, the pits come out easily. Fri Jul 09 10:51:36 -0700 2004 1644183 0 Colleen 3 1644207 As a PS, I've always used cornstarch, I've never tried tapioca. From what I've heard, they both work well as a thickener, I think it's really a texture issue to choose between them. The cornstarch can be a bit thick and sticky if overused and the tapioca thickener is supposed to give a more delicate texture. On the other hand, I've heard people complain the tapioca texture was "slimy." Fri Jul 09 10:54:42 -0700 2004 1644205 0 Colleen 2 1644231 I've always pitted first, frozen second. Never tried it the other way. As for how many cherries you need, you need to fill the pie to heaping with pitted cherries. If you have a tin pie pan I'd take it with me and see how many pints it takes to fill it. As for cornstarch vs tapioca, I use a few tablespoons of flour. But I don't mind a little juice running out of the pie when it is cut because I hate a thick syrup around the cherries. Reminds me of pie filling from a can. Fri Jul 09 12:34:39 -0700 2004 1644183 0 muD 3 1644309 I once baked a cherry pie that turned out to be a disaster! Could you tell me what I did wrong? I used freshly picked sour cherries that I had picked the same day. I put them in a pie crust (that I bought), added some sugar, covered it with the top crust and backed it. When I took it out of the oven, the cherries were swimming in about a 1/4 inch of water. I did not add tapioca or cornstarch because I do not like thickeners. Should I have let the cherries dry out a few days before using? Any help will be appreciated. Fri Jul 09 23:53:21 -0700 2004 1644231 0 Bill 4 1644310 That was your problem exactly--no thickener. All the juice came out of the cherries. If you want to avoid a thickener, you will have to cook the filling ahead of time. Cherries, sugar, a tiny pinch of salt and whatever spices you wish. When the cherries are at the consistency you like, if the liquid is still too watery, remove the cherries and allow it to cook down. You will have to watch it closely as it will burn easily. Once off the heat, stir in a little lemon juice or lemon rind for brightness, and add the cherries back in. Then bake the filling in the crust. Sat Jul 10 01:02:01 -0700 2004 1644309 0 Colleen 5 1644314 Do I cook the filling on the stove top in a frying or saute pan, or in the oven? Sat Jul 10 08:04:35 -0700 2004 1644310 0 Bill 6 1644325 I've never tried this method with cherries--I've done it with peaches and apples. You would cook the filling on the stovetop, preferably in a saute pan. I would choose a lighter coloured pan so you can check for any changes in the colour of the liquid. If you use a dark-coloured frying pan, you may not realize your syrup is burning until it's too late (speaking from personal experience here). Trying to cook it that way in the oven would be rather slow. And as I say, keep an eye on it while it's boiling down. Following is the recipe I use for peach pie. It's a little different from the method described in my first post, but the effect will be the same, and I know this method works. I think if you follow it you can get the kind of cherry pie you want. The only caveat is that this method may require more fruit. Peach Pie One 9" Double-Crust or Lattice-Crust Pie From Margo Oliver's Weekend Magazine Cook Book, by Margo Oliver (Totem Books, 1977) 8 cups sliced Fresh Peaches (approximately 8 Peaches), or use Frozen Peaches 1 cup Granulated Sugar ½ cup Water ½ tsp. Ground Mace 1 tsp. Cinnamon (optional) 1 tbsp. Lemon Juice 2 tbsp. Butter 1 Pastry Recipe Peel and cut peaches into thin slices. Put them in a heavy saucepan and add sugar, water, mace, and cinnamon. Cover and simmer until peaches are tender. Drain well, saving liquid. Cool. Heat oven to 425ºF. Line a 9-inch pie pan with pastry. Pile peaches into pastry-lined pan. Sprinkle with lemon juice. Dot with butter. Place top crust over the pie, sealing the edges. If you wish, you can make the top crust a lattice crust by cutting the pastry into strips and crossing them over the top to form a lattice. I usually can't be bothered. Beat together 1 egg and 1 tbsp. of milk and brush it over the top crust, including the rim. Sprinkle with a little granulated sugar. Cut air vents for steam to escape. Use a small, sharp, paring knife to cut 6 or 7 sunburst or fan lines radiating out from near the centre. Do not allow the cuts to get too close to the edge or the middle. Cut each one twice to open the cut a little. Bake until pastry is well browned, about 30 minutes. Meanwhile, boil juice saved from simmering the peaches very hard until reduced by half. Pour reduced juice into the steam vents in the crust as soon as the pie is removed from the oven. If using a lattice top, simply pour the reduced juice over the entire top of the pie. Place on a rack to cool. Serve slightly warm or cold. Sat Jul 10 14:46:13 -0700 2004 1644314 0 Colleen 7 1644328 By "may need more fruit," what I meant was that this method is more fruit-intensive. The standare recipes for cherry pie (using thickeners) is 4-6 cups of fruit. Note that this recipe uses 8 cups. That's because the fruit is being cooked ahead of time and the juice boiled down separately. Also, for the colour of the syrup... The syrup/juice shouldn't go much darker than a golden colour (may be hard to tell with the red of the cherry juice). If it starts to go to a darker brown, get the syrup off the heat immediately--it may already be too late. You will have to taste it to find out. If it's burnt, it can't be saved. For that reason, I wouldn't recommend going any higher than medium-low to medium heat on your stove burner for boiling down the juice/syrup and watch it like a hawk. To tell if it's boiled down by half, I often make a little mark at the water line in pencil when I start. No, it won't give you lead poisoning--pencil "leads" are made from graphite (carbon). It will wash off. I do that because I have trouble remembering where the original water line was and it becomes hard to judge when it's reduced by half. But really, it should start looking somewhat syrupy when it's boiled down enough. Sat Jul 10 15:36:12 -0700 2004 1644325 0 Colleen 8 1644366 Thanks for a very comprehensive, well thought-out recipe that seems to solve the excess liquid problem. I've printed it out and added it to my recipe collection. Sun Jul 11 18:26:36 -0700 2004 1644328 0 Bill 9 1644369 No problem. Happy to help. Sun Jul 11 20:42:22 -0700 2004 1644366 0 Colleen 7 1644340 RLB uses a the same method in her peach pie recipe in the pie and pastry bible. This being the season for peaches and all, I've been meaning to try it, but haven't had the chance. Perhaps this is the motivator I need... Sat Jul 10 22:19:29 -0700 2004 1644325 0 Smokey 8 1644345 It really works well, and turns out a fresh-tasting pie. I had trouble for years with conventional peach pies--something about the way the juice comes out of them--I'd get watery areas and gloppy areas. I finally tried this method and it produces a consistent filling. Sat Jul 10 23:31:30 -0700 2004 1644340 0 Colleen