297474 Tue Jun 15 15:46:13 -0700 2004 21 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1641708 What are those pickles called which come with deli sandwiches (usually on wax paper)? I thought they were called "kosher dills", but I have come to realize that normal pickles (vlassic, klausen, safeway/generic) are all "kosher dills". So are they NON-kosher dills, then? I tend to doubt it, seeing as it's usually a Jewish deli in which I find them. I am not referring to the sour type. That's another matter altogether. I am referring to the bland, crunchy spears which taste more like cucumber than pickles. If I had to guess, I'd say the salt was added at the end, rather than used to leech out the liquid. This would, I presume, leave them harder and more cucumbery (taste) than the normal spears. No? In any case, I've tried every jar in the market. Nothing seems close. What are they called?! (Dropping pickling cukes into leftover brine for the time being) BTW, I prefer normal pickles myself, but I'd like a jar of these for an occasional change. They have a light, refreshing quality to them. Tue Jun 15 15:46:13 -0700 2004 0 Lulu 1 1641710 Sounds like half-sours to me. Not sure what good generalizing saying THE kind of pickles that come with a sandwich does. I've had many kinds of pickles come with sandwiches. Tue Jun 15 15:56:01 -0700 2004 1641708 0 AlanH™ 2 1641732 Well, I only said "the" after long explanation ruling out "the" others. I think we all know what the default dill or kosher dill is. And anything sour is out. I don't know how much better I can describe it than "light, airy, crunchier than default dill, more cucumberry than default dill, and...*often*...served in delis. Process of elimination. What is LEFT besides (kosher) dill or sour? Are there UNsalted pickles, for example? Perhaps that's what it is, and the salt is just spritzed on at the end. Tue Jun 15 17:24:08 -0700 2004 1641710 0 Lulu 3 1641735 I'll also rule out anything SMALL. Those tiny gerkhins - or whatever they called - are always sour in my experience. But even if they're not, what I am refering to is not small like that. Looks like a dill spear, acts like a dill spear. Just less pickley. Tue Jun 15 17:42:23 -0700 2004 1641732 0 Lulu 4 1641752 Don't know where you live, there could be regional terms, but I'm sticking with half sour, which are more garlicky than sour. You should be able to get them at the deli counter in the supermarket. Tue Jun 15 19:56:45 -0700 2004 1641735 0 AlanH™ 1 1641716 Half-sours is what you're looking for. Tue Jun 15 16:21:27 -0700 2004 1641708 0 Pixelchef 1 1641725 There's a brand called Ba-Tampte that you can get in supermarkets in the refrigerated section, usually near the packaged deli meats and cheese. Tue Jun 15 16:47:17 -0700 2004 1641708 0 Barbix 2 1641731 Lord no, those Ba-Temptes are as sour as they come. Aren't those "ultra orthodox" kosher ones pickled in vinegar? I am looking for the rather bland "raw cucumberry" type. Tue Jun 15 17:21:16 -0700 2004 1641725 0 Lulu 3 1641737 Batampe makes sour pickles *and* half-sours (although the longer they sit, the more sour they become). Your best bet would be to go to a kosher deli and ask for half-sour pickles as I'm pretty sure that's what you are looking form Tue Jun 15 17:46:44 -0700 2004 1641731 0 DanaB 4 1642015 There have been several comments about the Ba Tamte halfs getting stronger over time. I don't know much about making pickles, but this does not correspond to my experience. When I buy them, they've been on the grocery shelf for who knows how long, but they always taste pretty consitently 1/2 sour. After I get them home, I keep them for at least a week or so and I don't notice them changing. I believe that the strength has to do with the sourness/potency of the brine, not the time the cucumbers are in it. I.e. - the brine itself is half sour, so the cucs. can only get 1/2 sour, regardless of how long they're immersed. Someone else mentioned full-sours having vinegar in the brine, whereas halfs have only salt and seasoning,. This seems to make sense to me, as the liquids involved seem very different to me. Thu Jun 17 11:28:22 -0700 2004 1641737 0 mrbarolo 1 1641733 I believe you're referring to "new pickles." Tue Jun 15 17:27:15 -0700 2004 1641708 0 LisaM 2 1641736 They sound like New Pickles. As a general rule, New Pickles tend to be "pickled" for a much short time than sours or half-sours and are usually pretty garlicy. Tue Jun 15 17:43:16 -0700 2004 1641733 0 Evan 3 1641741 I think you are right. If you want more flavor, leave them in the container for a week or so. Tue Jun 15 18:23:45 -0700 2004 1641736 0 Pat Goldberg 1 1641753 I believe these pickles are referred to as "New Dills" in many delis. Tue Jun 15 19:58:57 -0700 2004 1641708 0 Coyote 2 1641767 But, are these the same as half-sours? I would love a recipe for these. Tue Jun 15 21:01:10 -0700 2004 1641753 0 d2u 3 1641912 Easy to make. Eat quickly, as they don't stay half-soured for long. Batampte is a local (NYC) brand that is available in many markets, but Kirby cukes nad fresh dill are pretty cheap right now. I used the pickling brine a few times before starting fresh. Farmer's markets are a good source. Make them as soon as your get the pickles, as they will become mushy and inedible if not fresh. *Half-Sour Pickles and/or Tomatoes Yield: 12 pickles 12 Kirby pickles (approximately 4" long) 1/2 cup pickling spice 2 cloves of garlic 1/2 cup kosher salt (Too much!! start with to 1/4 cup-sixozpatty) 6 cups cold water 2 bunches dill (approximately) Jars to hold 8 cups of water Wash pickles and arrange in a jar in an upright position along with half of the pickling spice, 2 cloves of garlic and half of the pickling dill. Set aside. Mix 6 cups of cold water with 1/2 cup of the coarse salt. Place in a large bowl and stir until melted. Taste. Put water and salt mixture into the jar until the mixture covers the pickles. Add the balance of the pickling spice and the dill. Let this stand on the counter at room temperature, uncovered, for one day. Check by tasting and if it is satisfactory, let it stand for an additional 2 days, uncovered. When the pickles turn greenish brown, cover and refrigerate. For Sour Tomatoes (half-sours): The recipe for tomatoes is the same as the one for pickles with the following exceptions: 1. Substitute the pickles for 12 small green tomatoes. Tomatoes should be firm. 2. Tomatoes need more salt than pickles. Use 3/4 cup kosher salt instead of 1/2 cup. 3. Tomatoes take longer to sour. Leave them on the counter for 2 days, uncovered, then cover and leave on the counter or outside for another 2 to 3 weeks. Tomatoes are ready when they change color from light green to dull olive green. Wed Jun 16 16:07:09 -0700 2004 1641767 0 sixozpatty 4 1641914 Forgot to mention I doubled the garlic and added one (1) hot pepper. After you make the brine, check the salt taste level; 1/2 cup was WAY too much, probably for double the water. I diluted the brine by 50% and all was well. If it's spears you want, cut the pickles up after they've brined, duh, (;>)) Wed Jun 16 16:18:55 -0700 2004 1641912 0 sixozpatty 4 1642103 Thanks for your recipes. You made a very important point that I think I forgot in my original post. The cucumbers themselves MUST be extremely fresh. If not the pickles will be mushy and inedible. I've even had failures when buying what seemed like very fresh cucumbers at Farmers Market, rushing home and making the pickles ASAP. I've been told that the cukes must be very clean and that the ends of the little bumps on them must be completely intact; no soft spots, bruises, etc. and that they have to be handled gently to avoid scratches or else bacteria get into them and they turn to mush... Thu Jun 17 16:27:13 -0700 2004 1641912 0 RWCFoodie (Karen) 1 1641770 Having grown up on "half-sour" Kosher-style dill pickles made by my Jewish Grandmother, I think I know something about them! First, the biggest difference in pickles is those made with just a salt brine (Kosher style) and those made with vinegar (feh...). Basically, Kosher-style dills are made with few ingredients; very fresh pickling cucumbers, salt (not iodized), water, garlic, dill and maybe some pickling spice and not canned or processed in any way. I've tried making them over the years with varying degrees of success. Nothing has ever come close to those of my Grandmother. She also pickled green tomatoes which I loved; again have never found a recipe or commercial product that is as good. A good Jewish deli is usually the best place to get the best "half-sours" from my experience. That said, at this point I don't know where to get any so I usually settle for Claussens (sigh). Tue Jun 15 21:22:39 -0700 2004 1641708 0 RWCFoodie (Karen) 1 1641823 The jarred pickles in the grocery store usually have vinegar, especially the national brands, maybe as a preservative. You want to get a New York brand (Ba Tampe, or United, packaged as Nathans sometimes), those usually give you a choice of sour,half sour or new, it's all the same pickle I believe, just how long it's left in the vat (probably like a week for new, couple of weeks for half, and a month or so for sour.) The new pickles are reallly green so you'd know them if you saw them. I believe the pickles that are labeled "fresh Kosher" have a large amount of salt, they are marketed towards non-United States residents who are used to very salty pickles. Wed Jun 16 10:33:02 -0700 2004 1641708 0 coll 1 1641824 Half-sours are hard to find and I crave them. Used to get them on the table at NY delis and I'd consume more than an entire bowl in the course of a meal. The only commercial brand I've ever seen is Ba Tamte, the do the tomatoes too. They're hard to find, but they're out there. (I'm in Chicago.) I just came back from NY carrying a jar of 1/2 sours in my luggage and risked the really hideous effects of breakage just to have some here. Good luck. Wed Jun 16 10:33:30 -0700 2004 1641708 0 mrbarolo 1 5007365 I'm really curious if you found what you are looking for, because I am looking for the same thing. When you go to a Miami Jewish deli, you get two kinds of pickles. One is a salted half-sour, which is delicious. The other appears to be an unsalted pickle, perhaps a half-sour, but definitely not a dill pickle. If there's a ton of garlic and other spices, you don't taste it. If you made these pickles and like a recipe, can you post? Sat Sep 05 10:16:31 -0700 2009 1641708 1107065 winkleperi