296661 Fri Apr 02 11:25:40 -0800 2004 8 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1634822 I do not have a stand mixer/kitchenaid . I have an aging cuisinart (going on 25 yrs old) And I am completely unskilled at the handwork/feel of kneading, have never had much success with breads. Can anyone give me a walkthrough technique for pizza dough that would include how long to pulse it in the cuisinart, and how to know when it is kneaded enough. I tried Alton Browns recipe, but didnt get the "windowpane" part?? Adding insult to injury , I would also like to try making it with wholegrain flour, at least 50/50. I found a lovely square pizza stone that fits my oven floor perfectly,on sale yesterday and it has inspired me! I plan to let the stone live in the oven full time. I am looking forward to pizzas and nans, and I have heard that it is also great for cooking slow cooked braises putting the casserole/braiser directly onto the stone.....any advice on pizza stone use would be great too....thanks Fri Apr 02 11:25:40 -0800 2004 0 ciaolette 1 1634844 About the dough: I have never made pizza dough in a cuisinart. Hand method is almost as easy, I'm sure. Others can provide a recipe, but I'll give you a few tips I've learned from making a ton of mistakes in making pizza dough... First, if you are doing it by hand, start by proofing the yeast. (empty one packet of yeast (somewhere like 2.25 TBs) in a a cup of warm water (105 degrees) Once that is done, mix it with a cup of flour to make a batter-like consistency. The reason I've found that is important, is it distributes the yeast well into flour and promotes a good rise. Then you can go ahead and add the salt, more water and more flour depending on the how much dough you want right away. (if you want, after you make the batter, you can let that batter rise for two hours alone... essentially, you've made a sponge. Once it has risen, then you mix in the ingredients above). Another tip I've found is mix this stuff in a big, wide rimmed bowl, like a big salad tossing bowl. Then you can actually do your first few minutes of kneading in the bowl, which reduces clean up. Another tip: don't add too much flour. You want to have a good ratio of water to flour, because that gives the dough those good holes in it when cooking and doesn't make it too dense. It will be a bit sticky. I knead with one hand, and have a dough scraper in the other to scrape it up each time. Next don't worry about kneading forever. I've found that a few minutes of kneading is usually plenty. I used to try and knead until it was a perfectly round, smooth ball... just make sure you've kneaded well for a couple of minutes, there aren't any clumps and you should be fine. If you are going to add other flours, I'd recommend using high-gluten or bread flour. It will help with the rise, particularly if you are using wheat. Once it is time to form the dough... if you have just punched it down, give it a knead for 20 seconds, then form it into a ball (or two, depending on the amount of dough) and let it rest for 10-20 minutes. this will let it relax and you'll have a much easier time forming it. Do you want a thick, puffy crust, like american pizza? or a nice thin, crust, like more traditional? If the former, once it is formed into the circle, let it rise for a good 45 minutes. Then put the toppings on and bake it at around 400 degrees directly on your stone (a piece of parchement paper under the pizza works great)... If you want a thinner crust, once you have formed the pizza let it rest for only a few minutes, then put the toppings on a pop it into the over. Bake it right on your stone at like 500 degrees. If you are using parchment beneath it, you'll want it cut so it only extends a few inches beyond your crust or the paper will begin to char. Well, that is about all of my advise. Like I said, others will have recipes, but hopefully those tips will help... - Adam Fri Apr 02 12:48:01 -0800 2004 1634822 0 adamclyde 1 1634851 I own a kitchenaid and I would never, ever use it or a cuisinart to do pizza dough becasuse it is so easy to do by hand. I would follow adamclyde's directions and don't worry about kneading. Just knead until it becomes a smooth ball, and then knead a few minutes more. I am though concerned about the results of putting in 50% whole grain flour. This is a high % and I suspect is going to make a very dense crust without a lot of other adjustments. In the end you will fault your technique when in fact it will be the fault of the dough recipe. Fri Apr 02 13:19:40 -0800 2004 1634822 0 rjka 2 1634854 I would have to second the comment about 50% WW flour. I admit, I use my breadmaker to do all of the kneading, etc. with my pizza dough. I also prefer to use WW flour, and futzed with the recipe somewhat to come up with a passable version. The most I was able to incorporate was a 1/3 WW flour / 2/3 bread flour mixture. Any more WW flour than that (by percentage) was awful. At that %, and I was quite happy with the results--crisp crust, chewy, but not shoe leather. Smokey Fri Apr 02 13:45:26 -0800 2004 1634851 0 Smokey 3 1634870 Whole wheat flour varies significantly. I've been grinding my own wheat from hard red winter wheat and I've been producing a decent 100% whole wheat dough. Adding some dough conditioner such as ascorbic acid seems to help. Fri Apr 02 16:03:43 -0800 2004 1634854 0 Dylan 4 1634896 Do you think adding extra gluten would help?? What type of grinder do you use. I saw a nice little hand crank grain mill made by imperia/villaware and thought about getting one Fri Apr 02 19:03:50 -0800 2004 1634870 0 ciaolette 5 1634942 Extra gluten would help if the flour itself is low gluten. However a good hard red wheat should have enough gluten in it. I'm using the Grainmaster Whispermill. Its weakness is that you can't vary the fineness of the grind, and you can't grind nuts. Other than that, it's fast and produces a reasonably fine flour. Sat Apr 03 16:46:11 -0800 2004 1634896 0 Dylan 1 1634855 Hand-kneading is about as quick if you're good at it, and it's fun, too. Plus I'd rather wash my hands than my food processor. But sometimes... I use the pizza dough recipe in the Complete Tightwad Gazette, which is just a regular pizza dough done in a food processor. I have in fact done a %100 whole wheat crust w/ this recipe, and it doesn't rise AT ALL. This did not bother me, since the almost cracker-like texture was interesting. A 50-50 mix will take a little longer to rise, but it will get puffy. You won't be able to windowpane with whole wheat in the mix (i heart alton brown). The method in a food processor is this: Proof the yeast in a very small amount of water (like 1/4 c.) Put all the dry ingredients in and pulse a few times to mix. Put in the oil (about 2 T. in my recipe) and pulse a few more times. Drizzle in yeast mix, then water until it hangs together, pulsing very gently the whole time. It's very easy to put in too much water, although hand-kneading for a little while w/ some more flour would take care of that. Once it comes together in a ball in the processor, pulse so that it is twirled around the bowl about 20 times, take it out, let it rest about 10 minutes, roll it out and top. Good luck. Fri Apr 02 14:12:51 -0800 2004 1634822 0 Jessi 1 1634859 See if you can get your hands on a copy of _The Best Bread Ever_ by Charles Van Over. He goes to great lengths to explain his method of making bread in the food processor. I am not sure if he talks about whole wheat flour, but I have had very good results with the recipes I have tried from his book, including the pizza dough. Unfortunately, I think it is out of print, but perhaps your library might have it. Fri Apr 02 14:46:39 -0800 2004 1634822 0 Jujubee