296168 Tue Feb 17 00:26:39 -0800 2004 14 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1630459 Here are a few notes from a bourbon whiskey tasting some hounds (and a few non-hounds) recently shared in Chicago. I sent these to a few folks at the tasting, but thought I’d post for the other ‘hounds who couldn’t make it. I’m posting here instead of the Chicago board, since the topic is of fairly general interest. There is a little more specific info on the Chicago board. The theme of the evening was nominally one of innovation, but practically speaking, the focus was on the expression of different grains. The two Old Potrero ryes at the end were one end of the spectrum. We started with a cheap mason jar of Georgia Moon Corn Whiskey put out by Heaven Hill distillery (Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna). Not very good, not much character, definite corn presence, and could certainly get you drunk pretty quickly. But the point was to get a sense of the corn, of which all bourbons have at least 51%, and most have 70-80%. On average, they have about 5% malted barley, and the remainder is either wheat or far more often, rye. Of ten bourbons (in addition to the corn and rye whiskeys), we had three wheat (purportedly the only three wheated bourbons on the market) and seven rye. The wheat: W.L. Weller 2 year, Maker’s Mark, and Delilah’s 10-yr. Single Barrel. The wheats in general did have fewer sharp flavor notes than the ryes, a little bit smoother in the mouth. I really like all of these–I thought the Delilah’s had the most layers of flavor, possibly because it was never filtered. I would definitely return to the bar for this stuff. The other seven bourbons were Old Forester, Woodford Reserve, Basil Hayden, Very Old Barton, Buffalo Trace, Wild Turkey Russell’s Reserve, and Elijah Craig 18 year single barrel. Of these, I really liked the Buffalo Trace and the Elijah Craig, the former for a more assertive bourbon and the latter for something a bit smoother. Basil Hayden is a bit too smooth for me, but of course this is all relative. I tend to like my whiskey, like most of my liquors, a little rough around the edges. Finally we sampled two 100% rye whiskies, distilled by the folks at Anchor Distillery, same group as Anchor Brewing Company. We actually sampled two versions of their Old Potrero. The bartender who was responsible for the pouring accidentally and (for us) serendipitously poured the pricier version though the cheaper was intended. After a bit of good-natured ribbing from the gallery (and as ab pointed out, perhaps because he had been tasting along with us), Mike generously poured the other as well. The nomenclature is a bit tricky, in that both whiskies are 100% rye and both are single malt. The website calls one Old Potrero Straight Rye and the other Old Potrero Single Malt. It notes the Straight Rye as 19th century style and the Single Malt as 18th century style, the difference being that the use of charred oak was (presumably) a 19th century innovation. Also the Straight Rye/19th century style was aged three years; the Single Malt/18th century style was aged one. Mike had told me earlier in the day that the Anchor guy was in, and cut him a deal for our tasting, but little did I expect to get both. (Incidentally, Anchor distills a very fine, “new style” gin called Junipero–I’ve really liked this for a while, but hadn’t tried their whiskey before.) In any case, both Old Potreros were very good, unlike any other whiskey I’ve had, but the 3-yr-old was really something. Very dark, very full body, sort of syrupy with sweet, maple notes and some dark spice notes–cinnamon or nutmeg, maybe. Wow, I was really glad to have a chance to sample the stuff. A few general comments– first, one thing I thought going in that was pretty much reaffirmed is that bourbon in general is pretty good. It wasn’t like tasting wine where you like some and others you don’t care for. With bourbon for me, it’s a matter of degree and variation. I like it all. Second, I found interesting the similar progressions of modern bourbon and wine production, considering both the regulatory aspects and the flavor profiles. The Anchor whiskies, for example are a new breed achieved by experimenting with and extending beyond established modes of distillery and the legal definition of bourbon. I can only imagine this trend will increase with whiskey as it has done, for example, in the wine industry in Tuscany. Similarly, I find it interesting that the heavy malt, full-bodied “fruit forward”, as it were, whiskies are the result of this extension. While I welcome this experimentation and enjoy the result, it will be interesting to see how long it takes for the flavor pendulum to swing back toward subtlety in the American, or the “international” palate. The other trend that struck me (first pointed out by another taster) is not culinary, but commercial–the proliferation of private label goods in general, as seen in Delilah’s own whiskey, and any other number of whiskies are pulled out of a limited number of distilled batches and tweaked to create distinct flavor profiles, but perhaps more importantly for the proprietors, distinct brands that can be marketed to various niche consumes. Not unlike the various Intelligentsia blends or many Trader Joe’s prepared foods or even farther down-market Safeway Select and President’s Choice. And of course any number of non-food products as well. It is interesting to see both increased homogenization and arguably a greater diversity of higher quality products both resulting from the same trend. Cheers, Aaron Tue Feb 17 00:26:39 -0800 2004 0 Aaron D 1 1630461 Here is another page of very good tasting notes from a participant who does not post on chowhound (but posted by his permission): 1. GEORGIA MOON CORN WHISKEY. Mike Miller, owner of Delilah's and emcee for the event, began with this whimsical selection so as to demonstrate the flavor of 100% corn whiskey (of course bourbons, to be labelled as such, must be made of more than 50% corn). It was the color of pale straw, to my senses it smelled of weak tequila and tasted like very light rum. A ringer. 2. W.L. WELLER 12-YEAR BOURBON. The first three actual bourbons sampled represent those in which corn is supplemented with wheat, rather than the more usual rye. To me this one had a bright, pleasantly acidic aroma with hints of honey, and a very wheaty flavor suffused with black pepper. Very nice. 3. MAKER'S MARK. Another wheated bourbon, this long-time favorite (of mine) had a nice woody aroma, and a more well-rounded flavor than the Weller, less wheaty and a little more .. well, "fruity" is what I wrote down, even though there's no fruit in the stuff. (Surely I was still sober at this early stage?) 4. DELILAH'S 10-YEAR SINGLE BARREL UNFILTERED BOURBON. I believe Mr. Miller indicated that this bourbon was derived from the Van Winkle line of bourbon. This was the last of the wheated bourbons we tried, with an elegant, well balanced aroma (i.e., it smelled simply like bourbon), with a flavor that was less bright than the previous two, but richer, deeper, earthier and more well-rounded, with a much longer finish than anything we tried all night except the two Old Potreros at the end. Excellent. Disclosure: the next seven whiskeys, all featuring rye rather than wheat (and most of them very modest amounts at that), didn't do much for me. So my comments on them should perhaps be taken with more than usual dosage of salt. 5. OLD FORESTER BOURBON. Strongly alcoholic, turpentine-like aroma; very middle-of-the-road flavor (it should not have followed the Delilah house brand). 6. WOODFORD RESERVE BOURBON. Aroma of apples plus turpentine; flavor was much like that of a youngish, indifferent Speyside single-malt. 7. BASIL HAYDEN BOURBON. This had a mild, "fruity," slightly sweet aroma; very mild, smooth flavor. Aptly described by Mr. Miller as a "ladies' bourbon" (Joan: his words, not mine). 8. VERY OLD BARTON BOURBON. Aroma similar to the Basil Hayden, but not as sweet, a little more turpentine (due, I would assume, to a stronger proof); flavor was exceedingly mild, akin to Canadian whisky. 9. BUFFALO TRACE BOURBON. The least successful whiskey we tried, in my opinion (apart from the leadoff corn squeezins). I thought it had no smell at all, with a watery, corn-whiskey-like flavor. 10. WILD TURKEY RUSSELL'S RESERVE BOURBON. This was a good one, with a strongly malty aroma (first sign of maltiness in the tasting; but stay tuned) and a dark, rich, buttery flavor, slightly reminiscent of a superior dark rum. 11. ELIJAH CRAIG 18-YEAR SINGLE BARREL BOURBON. Sweet, appley aroma with a mellow, slightly clove-like flavor. Last came the two Old Potreros. Initially Mr. Miller planned to serve only the Single Malt Whiskey (from toasted barrels); but in the middle of working himself, and us, into an ecstasy of expectation while he described its glories, he noticed that his assistant had poured out the other Old Potrero (from charred barrels). After a parliamentary exchange of ideas between ourselves and he, Mr. Miller eventually came 'round to providing a sample of the toasted-barrel Old Potrero as well. 12. ANCHOR DISTILLING "OLD POTRERO" STRAIGHT RYE WHISKEY (CHARRED BARREL). Not much finesse here but what a blockbuster! Intense aroma of pine cones and pine forest; a rye plus black pepper flavor of intense fullness, depth and length; kind of like drinking a liquid Ry Krisp (but better). 13. ANCHOR DISTILLING "OLD POTRERO" SINGLE MALT STRAIGHT RYE WHISKEY (TOASTED BARREL). This, in my opinion, was undoubtedly the finest drink tasted. A very well-rounded, sweet, fruity, piney smell (but not monochromatically piney like the charred Potrero); flavor of intense maltiness - sweet, rich and peppery - just great! (And strong!) SUPPLEMENTARY TASTING After the official tasting was over, a few of us decided we needed to supplement (ahem) our findings. S1. BAKER'S. Gary Wiviott's bourbon of preference entering the tasting, Baker's was smooth with nice flavor, a fine all-around bourbon. S2. EVAN WILLIAMS. Aaron's preferred mixer bourbon - and I can see why. Tue Feb 17 00:28:15 -0800 2004 1630459 0 Aaron D 2 1630467 This is great information, thanks. This question may be a bit sacrilegious, but out of the 2 lists, would you be able to recommend a full tasting bourbon that would be good for an old fashioned? I really enjoy bourbon, but not straight. Did they discuss any bourbon cocktails? Tue Feb 17 08:01:46 -0800 2004 1630461 0 Michele Cindy 3 1630491 I don't drink old-fashioneds, but my favorite bourbon for mixing is Evan Williams 7yr. Granted, I generally mix it with club soda, but I think it has enough backbone to stand up to other mixers as well, should you choose to drink your bourbon that way, which many people do--no need to bring sacrilege into the picture! Drink it how you like it. Nothing we tasted dissuaded me from my loyalty to Evan--most of it was stuff I would be more inclined to drink neat. You might also try the W.L. Weller, though--I'm not sure how the wheat/rye variation affects the bourbon as a mixer, but it would be an interesting experiment. Also, the Evan Williams features a vintage whiskey that generally hits the market maybe 12 years after distillation. I really like this alot too, but wouldn't regularly use it as a mixer. Tue Feb 17 11:32:34 -0800 2004 1630467 0 Aaron D 4 1630568 This is heresy, but back in my bourbon days, I liked Evan straight or just on the rocks. Even liked it better than Maker's Mark or some other mid-priced bourbons. Tue Feb 17 17:52:28 -0800 2004 1630491 0 e.d. 5 1630602 I don't think that's heresy at all--it's a damn fine bourbon. I for sure like it better than Knob Creek, straight up. I mix it so I can have a full drink after work, but after a particularly long day I will fill the glass with ice and Evan. Good stuff, and vastly underrated I think. Immeasurably better than other stuff in it's price range (I think Early Times is swill, for example), and definitely on par quality-wise, though often of much different character than pricier whiskies. It seems that for some reason, smoothness is one of the characteristics that is directly related to price/marketing strategy. It works for me. With gin, for instance, I'll take Bombay or Tanqueray over Sapphire or Tanqueray Ten 8 times out of 10. Tue Feb 17 22:06:33 -0800 2004 1630568 0 Aaron D 3 1630576 Another good cocktail that uses bourbon is a New Yorker. 2 parts Bourbon 1 part (fresh squeezed) lemon juice 1 tsp. sugar (ultrafine or syrup) or to taste dash grenadine--this is the 'official' ingredient, but since i am slightly wary of grenadine, i put a splash of pomegranite juice instead. Shake with ice and strain into a cocktail glass (garnish with a lemon twist). I usually use Makers Mark for this. Just because I like it straight and so I tend to have it around. A finer bourbon would probably be lost in all the flavors of a New Yorker or Old Fashioned. Tue Feb 17 18:19:41 -0800 2004 1630467 0 cheyenne 1 1630464 Did Chuck Cowdery have anything to do with this? He knows a thing or two about bourbon whiskey, and I believe he lives in Chicago. Tue Feb 17 04:09:17 -0800 2004 1630459 0 Jim Dorsch 2 1630489 He didn't have anything to do with it organizationally, and when a 'hound forwarded me his email address to say he'd be interested in coming, I didn't know who he was. But he did show up and was a nice resource to supplement some of Mike's presentation--and a very pleasant fellow to drink bourbon with as well. He took some notes and pictures and said he may be using the tasting in an upcoming article. Tue Feb 17 11:23:16 -0800 2004 1630464 0 Aaron D 1 1630470 Aaron, a couple of things I've been meaning to ask about the tasting. 1) Were any pot stilled, and if so, did that make a difference? 2) Did you drink all the whiskies straight/neat, and regardless, are there some that benefit, in your opinion by a splash (I prefer never, but am curious of what you and others think as some whiskies are said to be better with a bit of water.) Rob Link: http://vitalinformation.blogspot.com Tue Feb 17 09:29:33 -0800 2004 1630459 0 Vital Information 2 1630488 1) I don't believe any were pot-distilled. 2) I tasted everything straight, though others may have done differently. It's an interesting point that for some reason didn't come up. My regular bourbon is Evan Williams with ice and a splash of club soda--it's cheap, very good flavor, and benefits from being cut with the soda. I go back and forth between adding an ice cube to whiskey for sipping. I know some people find that a drop or two of water opens up a whiskey, but I've never been able to tell much one way or the other. I believe the folks at Anchor recommend this on the Old Potrero website. In any case, I've always thought the amount of water to add was quite small, like if you held water in a straw and let a few drops fall into the glass. Tue Feb 17 11:18:06 -0800 2004 1630470 0 Aaron D 3 1630565 >I don't believe any were pot-distilled. Woodford Reserve, which is on your tasting list, is pot-distilled. Informatively, Paul Tue Feb 17 17:33:37 -0800 2004 1630488 0 Paul Lukas 4 1630567 Thanks, I should clarify that I didn't think any were pot-distilled because the topic didn't come up, to my recollection. There very well could be others, and I would be happy if anyone can point them out. Cheers, Aaron Tue Feb 17 17:52:03 -0800 2004 1630565 0 Aaron D 1 1630529 Well written but leaves me asking how you cleared your palates between rounds (and your heads between bottles). Tue Feb 17 14:27:45 -0800 2004 1630459 0 mirror 2 1630532 White bread and a tall glass of water. I only took a very small taste for each round, sometimes two if I felt like I needed it. After the initial run-through I was able to go back and compare some whiskies in a different order than the tasting. It was nice to do the Old Potreros last, because they were powerful enough to overcome the palate fatigue that was beginning to set in. Tue Feb 17 14:39:47 -0800 2004 1630529 0 Aaron D