294137 Tue Sep 16 22:34:37 -0700 2003 16 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1612141 I always have a box of cocoa powder around--usually for baking, but for hot cocoa too. Recently, I got a box of Nestle cocoa (unsweetened, plain cocoa powder) and it tasted just awful--burnt and flat, with almost no cocoa/chocolate flavor. I usually prefer Droste (dutched) cocoa--it seems to have a lot more flavor, even though I know some people think the dutching process is a shortcut that masks the use of inferior beans. Anyway, other (unsweetened--not drink mix) cocoa brands you like? thanks! Tue Sep 16 22:34:37 -0700 2003 0 dixieday 1 1612143 I always liked the Pernigotti cocoa found at Williams-Sonoma Tue Sep 16 22:45:27 -0700 2003 1612141 0 Heidi Claire 1 1612151 Surfas carries Valrhona, $5+ for 8 oz, but well worth it IMVHO. Wed Sep 17 02:07:22 -0700 2003 1612141 0 Joe Fensterblaugh 2 1612191 I often use a half and half mix of Valhrona and Hersheys to serve both my identies...as both chowhound and cheapa$$. Wed Sep 17 14:59:02 -0700 2003 1612151 0 danna 3 1612676 great idea, danna! i've been stuck on Valhrona ever since i found it, and when looking at the price tag, i always tried to comfort myself with the knowledge that it was at least a *few* cents cheaper than Scharffenberger. does your trick work for both baking and drinking? i don't know if i can handle anything less than pure good stuff for my winter hot chocolate... homemade marshmallows deserve it! (: Tue Sep 23 19:49:06 -0700 2003 1612191 0 china 1 1612154 For general baking, I've always used Fry's Cocoa (although I have also used Hershey's and it's not bad). Fry's is also dutch processed. It's a brand produced by Cadbury (therefore British), but you should be able to get it in the US. Wed Sep 17 03:10:53 -0700 2003 1612141 0 Colleen 1 1612164 I like Penzey's cocoa, dutch and non dutch process. I can't tell the difference, but my DH swears he can. Wed Sep 17 10:07:32 -0700 2003 1612141 0 Erika 2 1612221 "dutch and non dutch"- Could you please explain? Wed Sep 17 19:49:19 -0700 2003 1612164 0 Tom Hall 3 1612224 Better yet, here's the link. They're both good. Link: http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/p-penzeyscocoapowder.html Wed Sep 17 20:29:31 -0700 2003 1612221 0 Erika 4 1612228 On a related note, I posted a question about when to use dutch vs. natural cocoa in baking. Can anyone help me with this? Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/294090#1612016 Wed Sep 17 22:06:07 -0700 2003 1612224 0 m00ncakes 5 1612235 I was looking at my container of Dutch-process cocoa, and notice it contains sodium carbonate as well. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. Thus, one of two things is possible--the sodium carbonate kills the reaction of the baking soda (I've used the two together in Crazy Chocolate Cake/Wacky Cake and haven't noticed this effect) or, more likely, the sodium carbonate adds an extra kick to the rising of the cake. In a more delicate cake, you may risk the cake overrising and subsequently falling. That's the only possibility I can think of. Wed Sep 17 23:29:15 -0700 2003 1612228 0 Colleen 5 1612237 As I said before, I have used Dutch-process cocoa with baking soda in other cakes with no obvious problems. I did, however, sit down and think about what the sodium carbonate in the Dutch-process cocoa might do to the rising of the cake. I don't do this very often, as thinking makes my head hurt. The upshot is, that your rising reaction may stop too soon and may not produce enough carbon dioxide gas to make the cake rise properly. I'll try to explain the chemistry as best I can. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is NaHCO3; the bicarbonate ion (HCO3-) is a weak base. Sodium carbonate (an ingredient in Dutch-process cocoa) is Na2CO3; the carbonate ion (CO3 2-) is a much stronger base than the bicarbonate ion. In the cake batter, they will presumably react with some acid (i.e., milk, buttermilk, vinegar, and so on), generally represented by the hydrogen ion (H+). The reactions of each with an acid are as follows: NaHCO3 + H+ >>>> Na+ + H2O + CO2 Na2HCO3 + 2H+ >>>> 2Na+ + H2O + CO2 Both reactions produce some sodium compound (represented by Na+), water (H2O) and carbon dioxide gas (CO2). The carbon dioxide gas produced is what makes the cake rise. The differences in the reactions, which may affect the cake, are: 1. As the carbonate ion is a much stronger base than the bicarbonate ion, it will react faster and more strongly with the acid. Thus, with sodium carbonate in the mix, you will have a faster initial reaction that will stop sooner rather than the slower, more sustained reaction created by the weaker base of sodium bicarbonate. Ergo, the cake may not rise properly, as the rising action may be over before the batter has a chance to "set." 2. One molecule of sodium bicarbonate and one molecule of acid produces one molecule of carbon dioxide. One molecule of sodium carbonate and TWO molecules of acid produces one molecule of carbon dioxide. Thus, not only is sodium carbonate a faster reaction, it uses up twice as much of the added acid for the quantity of carbon dioxide produced than does the sodium bicarbonate. Thus, not as much carbon dioxide is produced and the cake may not rise as high. I hope this explains things and I haven't totally confused you. Thu Sep 18 01:54:07 -0700 2003 1612228 0 Colleen 3 4823473 Dutch means alkalized while non dutch is natural with no alkalization. Alkalized cocoa mixes better in liquids and won't react with baking powder. Most cocoas are alkalized with solvents but I have researched fully and found a company that alkalizes with water, baking soda and pressure so i buy all my cocoa from them (alkalized cocoa from most sources gave me skin rashes, this one doesn't): www.santabarbarachocolate.com I've used their stuff for years and actually have won a few competitions with their cocoas and so I'm a big fan. Try the red one - it isn't too artificially red and tastes awesome. Wed Jul 01 22:15:03 -0700 2009 1612221 324290 rinconmatt 1 1612168 I haven't really been able to tell the difference between Hershey's and Penzey's -- the two I've used. I just bought 2 cans of TJ's cocoa; I believe it's made by Callebaut. Wed Sep 17 11:15:13 -0700 2003 1612141 0 Zoe 1 1612211 For hot cocoa I urge you to try Cadbury's Drinking Chocolate. It is so good that we have been importing our own from England for thirty years since until recently it hasn't been available in the States. Now you can buy it online from several US-based businesses that warehouse European groceries and sell them by UPS. Just tell Google the name of the product you want. PS On a cold winter's night, try Cadbury's with a shot of rum in it. Wed Sep 17 17:29:51 -0700 2003 1612141 0 N Tocus 1 1612300 Dixieday: I've been using for my morning "Mocha Coffee", and my Grandchildrens "Hot Cocoas" and for almost everything else the product most favored by "Baristas" at most expresso places. "Gharadelli Ground Chocolate & Cocoa Powder". I buy this in 3 pound tins, but it's available in smaller sized tins at many retailers. Compared to many so called prestige brands it's price is very reasonable. It's made with real ground chocolate and vanilla. no thickeners. Irwin Thu Sep 18 18:36:10 -0700 2003 1612141 0 Irwin Koval 1 1612459 Sorry to jump in so late on this thread, but recently I've started to developed a taste for really dark bittersweet chocolate (70% and higher cocoa content). Looking around for interesting varietal and single source dark chocolates, I came across a website that offers a very wide selection of hard core chocolate products, including quite a number of different cocoa powders. For instance, they carry Max Brenner single source (Ecuadorian, Trinidadian, Venezuelan and Javanese) cocoa powders, plus a broad range of Swiss, German, French and Belgian cocoas. They also have Spanish hot chocolate mix. Not sure if you want to descend into this level of obsession, but if so, I've included the link below. Link: http://www.chocosphere.com/ Sat Sep 20 21:03:40 -0700 2003 1612141 0 David Kahn