293544 Mon Jul 21 10:42:34 -0700 2003 15 31 Home Cooking 0 1606664 Based on the comments on a number of 'hounds, I recently purchased Rose Levy Beranbaum’s Pie and Pastry Bible, and have been in hog heaven just reading it. With the sour cherries in I decided to make my first outing with the book a cherry pie. Her method of working pie crust dough inside a plastic bag is unfamiliar to me, but I decided to follow her recipe to the letter (a bit unusual for me...I don’t always do what I’m told) and found this way of working dough to be frustrating in a certain way. "Il faut mettre la main à la pâte" is one of my favorite expressions with respect to many other things in life besides cooking, and working dough without touching it made my fingers itch. I was making the pie to take to some friends who have a new baby, and I kept thinking it’s like having to hold a baby with gloves on. The results were incredible though, which would seem to justify it. I do have a light hand and plenty of baking experience, so I'm thinking next time I’ll try working the dough by hand to see how much of a difference there is. I've been wondering though whether other baking 'hounds have a similar experience with this method, and if so do you keep working with the bag? Mon Jul 21 10:42:34 -0700 2003 0 lintsao 1 1606672 I'd drop the bag. I found it very frustrating to use too. This may sound harsh, but I thought it is sort of a gimmicky concept she added to give her a unique type of recipe. Why not just experiment with dropping it. Pie crust is not an expenisve investment in ingredients and if you don't like the results, just go back to the bag. Mon Jul 21 11:27:04 -0700 2003 1606664 0 rjka 1 1606674 While you can certainly try it, don't be surpised to find out that there is a reason to her madness, as it were. There most often is; you just need to decide whether the margin of improvement is worth the added effort. Mon Jul 21 11:41:35 -0700 2003 1606664 0 Karl S. 1 1606676 The Bernabaum in-the-bag method gives me perfect results every time. _The Pie and Pastry Bible_ was a revelation to me for this reason: finally, after years of inconsistent results from pie-crust to pie-crust, here was a method that gave me the same delicious crust every time. Now it is the only method I use. However, I must admit that I have on a very few occasions "cheated" by taking shortcuts with Beranbaum's crust recipes and gotten good, if not ideal, results. I wouldn't cheat if I were baking an important pie (e.g., for Thanksgiving, for a dinner-party, or for a gift), but sometimes I feel lazy and I put the frozen flour-and-butter-pieces mixture in a bowl and flatten the butter pieces by pressing a flat-bottomed glass on them again and again, alternately with tossing the mixture around a bit, until I get flat shards of flour-coated butter. This works pretty well. In fact, Shirley Corriher in her cookbook _Cookwise_ gives recipes for flaky pie-crust using a "dry-flattening method" that she credits to pastry chef Jim Dodge (book: _Baking with Jim Dodge) and that does not require a plastic bag. The "dry-flattening method" that Shirley Corriher and Jim Dodge advocate involves dumping the frozen flour-and-butter-pieces mixture onto a countertop and rolling the butter pieces flat with a rolling pin, alternately with scraping the flour inward to move it around on the countertop. A cool top made of marble or granite would be good. I have tried Corriher's method (only once) but found it a bit messy. I'd rather have it all encased in the Ziploc bag. These days, it's really all-or-nothing with me when it comes to pie crust. I either go the full-blown, in-the bag route as Beranbaum prescribes, or I dispense with flakiness altogether and make this incredibly simple crust that is the classic crust used for pecan tassies in the South, is simply four ingredients stirred together and could not be easier, and makes a crispy-tender and very flavorful but not flaky crust: 1/2 cup unsalted butter, softened 3 ounces cream cheese, softened 1 cup all-purpose flour (using dip-and-sweep method of measuring) 1/8 teaspoon salt Blend butter and cream cheese. Stir in flour and salt. Gather in plastic wrap and form into flattened round. Refrigerate for until firm before rolling. Makes pastry for one single-crust 9” pie. However, if dough is rolled very thin, two batches make just enough pastry for three single-crust 9” pies. Mon Jul 21 11:51:24 -0700 2003 1606664 0 Browniebaker 2 1606692 The Jim Dodge method is my favorite pie crust. It is very messy to make though. When done right, it approaches a rough puff pastry dough. I first saw it on a Julia Child series, Cooking With Master Chefs and it is in the accompanying book as well, if that is still around (note this is not Julia's baking series) Mon Jul 21 13:26:32 -0700 2003 1606676 0 rjka 1 1606741 i too found the bag annoying and don't use it, tho i see the purpose behind it. I make her cream cheese crust and use my hands and love it. it gives flaky, good results and is very easy. Mon Jul 21 20:01:32 -0700 2003 1606664 0 missmasala 1 1606779 I have the book, and have read the recipe, and would like to try it, even though I make a pretty good piecrust the normal way. But I have heard/read that this recipe makes a great crust. The reason I have never done it is because I have trouble visualizing what she means when she says "holding both ends of the bag opening with your fingers knead it..." If I am holding the bag opening, what do I use to knead the dough? Since people posting have made this dough, could someone please explain. I have made Shirley Corriher's recipe where the butter/flour mixture is frozen and then rolled, and liked the results but didn't think it was enough of an improvement over my regular piecrust to justify the extra work. Tue Jul 22 09:43:54 -0700 2003 1606664 0 ruth arcone 2 1606809 I don't have the book with me at the moment, but basically you have it closed in a ziploc bag from which you have expelled all the air. I know what you mean about regular pie crust...I can normally whip out a pie with a reasonably flaky crust in a trice. Yet there is a difference with this method. The crust puffs up beautifully so that it's crisp and buttery throughout. browniebaker, thank you for the crust recipe for pecan tassies, I've copied it to my chowhound folder. I wasn't familiar with them, but googling recipes I find they're similar to what are called matrimony tarts in a cookbook I have of local recipes from the Philly area in 1953. Tue Jul 22 15:06:03 -0700 2003 1606779 0 lintsao 3 1606857 When fall comes I will try RB's bag rolling technique, but I make an ultra-flaky crust as it is - for which I owe some credit to RB. I've picked up her tip of refrigerating, then refrigerating, then refrigerating again: before rolling, after rolling, after forming, and sometimes after filling before baking, depending on the filling. One other thing I do that is helpful is to bake directly on a pizza stone for at least the first part of baking process, again depending on filling (not for custard, for example). Her books are splendidly helpful. Tue Jul 22 20:31:09 -0700 2003 1606809 0 saucyknave 1 1606832 I also have her book and did her methods. I liked the bag method, cut down on the mess. But I think her other pointers are much more important than kneading in the bag: having everything freezing cold, using good ingridents, not overworking and heating up the dough as you work with it etc. I also tried her scone recipe, using hardcooked egg yolk in the dough. That was first I've heard of doing that and was skeptical, but the scones did turn out super tender and flaky. Tue Jul 22 18:06:52 -0700 2003 1606664 0 Wendy Lai 1 2054582 Beranbaum out of the Bag! o.k., for those who like the method and those who don't, my friend elizabeth karmel suggested a compromise that is really terrific. Use latex gloves. Then you can feel the dough but it doesn't stick to your fingers! Of course use the ones that don't have any added powders or food unfriendly sustances. You can purchase a whole box in the pharmacy. Wed Nov 29 03:29:06 -0800 2006 1606664 56373 roselevyb1 2 2054665 Welcome back, Rose! I have a latex sensitivity (I hesitate to call it an allergy -- but every time I use latex gloves I itch!) so I've actually started to use those little padded leather driving gloves. NOTHING sticks to them, they're thin enough that you can feel the dough, and they're reusable. I do have to say, I haven't tried your cream cheese pie crust, mostly because any cream cheese that enters my house gets devoured on any bread product that's available before it has a chance to make it into a pie crust! Wed Nov 29 04:26:11 -0800 2006 2054582 10811 Das Ubergeek 3 2055150 it's wonderful how we all find our own solutions! when i studied at lenotre years ago they worse white coton gloves when working with chocolate to prevent fingerprints! Wed Nov 29 14:08:51 -0800 2006 2054665 56373 roselevyb1 3 2057040 I love it, leather pastry gloves! Latex allergies are not uncommon, and vinyl gloves are available as an alternative. Thu Nov 30 00:37:05 -0800 2006 2054665 13150 babette feasts 1 2055065 Can someone post the Beranbaum pie crust recipe here? I would love to try it. I am always looking for a wonderfully flakey pie crust Wed Nov 29 13:17:45 -0800 2006 1606664 12606 MeffaBabe 2 2055158 since it's in chart form on my blog i can't copy it in but you (meaning anyone) have my permission to post it as long as you keep the weights! but just one addition--i now replace the water with heavy cream which results in a little extra tenderness-great flavor, but just strong enough to transfer even in lattice strips, without it breaking. Wed Nov 29 14:10:50 -0800 2006 2055065 56373 roselevyb1