292610 Wed Apr 23 22:15:18 -0700 2003 31 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1597566 Made risotto for the first time tonight. Horror of horrors it came out quite gummy, not sure what went wrong. Any tips and recipes for a lovely risotto? Wed Apr 23 22:15:18 -0700 2003 0 linza 1 1597567 Making great risotto is an art form that requires the ability to stick to a recipe until you're good enough to know when to make changes. Below is the link to a post that I made from about a year ago. There were over 150 responses over a several month period including about 20 to 25 who actually made it. Read through this. While you may not want to make the same risotto look at my exact instructions CAREFULLY. This should show you the correct technique along with detailing the steps involved. If you follow these steps you should have no problem making seriously good risotto. Don't try to adlib or take any shortcuts. I don't mean to be so rigid but that's why risotto often doesn't turn out. If you follow this EXACTLY it WILL turn out exactly as I say it will. If I sound like the "Risotto Nazi" then so be it. But it WILL turn out perfectly. Just don't change anything or eliminate any steps. And have a strong forearm for a lot of stirring. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/288918#1561544 Wed Apr 23 22:29:58 -0700 2003 1597566 0 Joe H. 2 1597572 I never really found risotto to be difficult, maybe it's because I first learned to make it from my italian teacher. And I consider my shrimp risotto to be one of my signature dishes. I did make joe's as it happens and it was quite delicious (thank you joe!). His basics are true, the main points being to let the rice have a minute or two in the oil to release the starches before adding wine or tomatoes or whatever your recipe calls for. Then it really is about the careful addition of stock, always stirring and stirring, never stop stirring! (some florentines I know say the secret is to only stir clockwise..). Different regions of italy have different preferences for consistency (for example, the venetians like it a little moister than they do in the south) As your rice soaks up the broth, wait until it is almost dry (not too dry) and then add your next ladle full. The whole process should take about 20-25 minutes and the level of heat should be fairly high. A risotto tradition is that whatever you started your risotto with - olive oil or butter - stir in the same again just before you're ready to take it off heat. I used to cook it over a lower heat and stir for much longer thinking that I would achieve a creamier consistency. Friends used to nap before I served dinner. Then I attended a lecture being given by marcella hazan and when she advised a high heat, I questioned her and she made it clear that in no uncertain terms should I use a lower heat - that if I did, it was because I was afraid! She was quite -ahem- vehement in her position and from then on......... Don't approach it with trepidation or it will get the better of you. Just have a glass of wine or good company while you stir and I'm sure your next attempt will be great. Wed Apr 23 23:49:36 -0700 2003 1597567 0 djk 2 1597582 I must admit to one risotto heresy: I prefer using shallot instead of onion. (Perhaps we could call it a Provencal risotto?) I just find the more rounded taste of shallots yummier, I guess. And I always keep the stock at a low simmer rather than merely warm. But, truth be told, making real risotto is not nearly as forbidding in practice as it seems in print. Thu Apr 24 08:24:47 -0700 2003 1597567 0 Karl S. 3 1597595 As long as we are admitting heresies: I add a dollop of Redi-base when I put the arborio in, therefore, when adding liquid it is water right out of the tap. Have never had a failure. Thu Apr 24 10:55:11 -0700 2003 1597582 0 Dale 3 1597636 For me making risotto is therapeutic. There is always an allocation of wine for the arborio and an allocation of wine for me. I have become quite practiced at stirring with my right hand and holding a wine glass with my left. (Although some times I have to put the glass down since I occasionally like to shake the pan back and forth in addition to stirring. Near the end I usually have to put it down to fill it with more wine!) Thu Apr 24 15:28:02 -0700 2003 1597582 0 Joe H. 2 1597588 I have never had trouble making risotto but it seems as though I use more liquid than in your recipe Joe. Should you have more on hand or is the 2 cups enough? And with the leftovers how would they taste rolled up into balls and deep fried? I don't know if too rich is in my vocabulary but this could be it? Thu Apr 24 09:42:28 -0700 2003 1597567 0 John Scar 3 1597591 I did exactly that with the left-overs from Joe's recipe - made "arancini" (rolled them in flour, then egg, then bread crumbs). They came out great - crispy on the outside and oozy, creamy inside, but they were EXTREMELY rich. I ended up making the second batch I fried into smaller, walnut-sized balls and they were perfect as an appetizer at a party. Thu Apr 24 10:11:40 -0700 2003 1597588 0 Rubee 4 1597635 Thanks for the report! A great idea! Thu Apr 24 15:24:53 -0700 2003 1597591 0 Joe H. 3 1597634 The amount of liquid varies with the kind of risotto that you are making. Some kinds use as much as 5 or 6 cups, others like gorgonzola use considerably less. The leftover gorgonzola has the exact textur of butter! My wife eats it cold straight from the refrigerator. The idea of fried balls sounds like a great one! I never tried it but it really sounds like it would turn out great. Thanks. Thu Apr 24 15:23:36 -0700 2003 1597588 0 Joe H. 3 1597697 The cold leftovers went nicely on crackers and toasted breads and were all gone before I had a chance to try them any other way. Letting the leftovers sit out for a time, getting them closer to room temp, tasted even better this way. Joe? If reading along: My family is not fond about gorgonzola (They hate it). Any more mellow cheese you find works well in its place, leaving it with the same or similar texture, tasting just as good when cold? Fri Apr 25 08:56:27 -0700 2003 1597588 0 TR 2 1597597 Thank you everyone for the great tips! Joe, that risotto sounds amazing, I'm planning my first trip up to Arthur Avenue in a week or two so I should be able to find the correct ingredients. Djk, your response solved the problem of what went wrong - I added the broth too quickly and I used a very low flame. I completely agree with the shallots! Thanks again to all! Thu Apr 24 11:02:21 -0700 2003 1597567 0 linza 2 1597598 Making risotto is not hard, in fact it takes only a little practice and knowledge of basic concepts to make. However, making superb risotto, takes the type of precision that Joe's recipe suggests. I have had the benefit of sampling fantastic risotto at Laboratorio del Galileo in DC (perhaps not as good as the stuff Joe has had in Italy but that is my current bench mark). I also make risotto at home without worrying about the best ingredients or diligence of technique. This stuff tastes good and does me well for a home meal, but it is no where even close to the level of what could be made with the right technique and ingredients. Am I happy with the stuff I make at home? Yes because I do not always want to run out and buy the finest ingredients or be painstakingly precise, but I do this knowing full well what I am missing out on. It is perfectly acceptable to make it however you like, that is the joy of cooking, but please understand that there is an enormous difference between what is easily achieved and what can be achieved with the best ingredients and technique. I suggest that anyone who really wants to understand risotto go out and sample truly quality risotto, then you will understand. The most difficult part of making outstanding risotto on the level described is that many people have not eaten this level of risotto and it is virtually impossible to obtain the crucial texture without knowing how it is supposed to turn out; it is too visual and tactile to explain in words. Thu Apr 24 11:10:19 -0700 2003 1597567 0 elyhtak 3 1597632 Roberto makes the best risotto on earth. I believe he has several that are better than anything I have had in Italy. In fact the gorgonzola dolce is my adaptation of HIS gorgonzola dolce which is only available at Laboratorio. (The risotto made by him at Laboratorio is DIFFERENT from that made at Galileo.) I've had gorgonzola dolce made in both rooms and, remarkably, they were different. At Galileo they used much cheaper gorgonzola, grana parmesan, I beleive even a different arborio. When he makes it he uses carneroli (slightly longer grain than violane nano) and less butter and reggiano than I but the flavor and texture are very close. He's probably doing it to his taste and I to mine. I agree with you: even decent, "everyday" risotto is still really good. But when made correctly (even obsessively so) and using the right ingredients I believe this is one of the great dishes of the world. By the way Roberto made a speck and bellpepper risotto for a Smithsonian dinner at Laboratorio about six or seven weeks ago (used a puree of three different peppers) that was unbelievable! I honestly believe that both Laboratorio and Maestro in the Washington suburbs are as good as any two Italian restaurants anywhere in the world. They have different styles both each in its own way can compare with anything in Italy. My wife and I had one of the best meals of our lives at Laboratorio this past Friday night. I put a post on the D. C. board about it which I have linked below. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/167529#896072 Thu Apr 24 15:19:40 -0700 2003 1597598 0 Joe H. 2 1597607 I admit I fear the answer wil be "no risotto for you!"...but I do have a few questions. is there ANYTHING that's an acceptable substitute for the gorgonzola? I can't tolerate the taste of blue cheese (my tongue refuses to believe it's not spoiled food and produces the spit-it-out reflex immediately. I know this denotes lack of palate sophistication to many, but so be it.) also, I'm curious if that is an unusual amount of butter for a risotto. I made risotto last night, it was pretty good, mine was a bit gummy too, I would have liked it more soup-y. I wound up using 3-4 cups of liquid for 1 cup rice...quite a bit more than your ratio. Do you suppose too low heat is the problem? You say to add ladles 2/3 cup, that would only be 3 additions. Do I have that right? Thanks for the schooling! Thu Apr 24 12:32:41 -0700 2003 1597567 0 danna 3 1597613 Don't expect Joe to provide an option for what is clearly not an option. However, I am free to provide an option, but with the understanding that it will be a different experience than the paradise to which Joe's recipe leads. Try properly ripened Taleggio, which shares much of the texture of Gorgonzola dolce, and is an emphatic cheese in a similar way (that is, the taste is milder than the smell), but without the offending blue cheese dimension. (Right now, I am hearing Joe say: "Forgive them, for they know not what they do.") Thu Apr 24 13:06:21 -0700 2003 1597607 0 Karl S. 4 1597631 But you're right. I've used taleggio. I've also made eppousse risotto as well as quattro fromaggio with varying combinations of cheese. I just think that gorgonzola dolce works best (although the others can be awfully good, even absolutey delicious!) and, even then, there is a specific brand of dolce that is best: comes in gold colored foil around the entire wheel and smells like hell when it is opened. (Whole Foods/ Fresh Fields sells a blue labelled dolce that is not as good.) I just can't remember the name but in the D. C. area Sutton Place Gourmet sells it. I've also found that it's very difficult to find gorgonzola dolce in other parts of the country, even Los Angeles. I'm not talking about the small amounts but rather the whole wheel which might be 4 to 5 pounds. It's also difficult to find violane nano let alone the best violane nano. Generally, the risotto will only be as good as the cheese (Reggiano included) and butter that goes into it. Technique and the right arborio will give you the correct texture (which I laugh at when someone talks about it turning out for them making it with a pressure cooker and not constantly stirring-they have no idea what it's suppose to taste like) along with influences from the stock, the wine, even the taste of the olive oil. Thu Apr 24 15:07:55 -0700 2003 1597613 0 Joe H. 5 1597643 Bread & Circus (Whole Foods) in the Boston area normally offers the gold-foiled dolce, as does the immortal Formaggio Kitchen (bow the head, please), which also offers the right rice (as does the fine Pemberton Farms in Cambridge). I do think one major difference in taste (putting texture aside) with the cooker and classic methods is that the latter involves much more reduction than the cooker (which is all absorption for the first 20 minutes until you remove the cover), which distills flavors keenly and therefore makes the quality of them very important. Thu Apr 24 16:07:45 -0700 2003 1597631 0 Karl S. 2 1597612 Joe, I am going to try your recipe soon. But there's one part I'm not sure of. You say: "When the wine has completely disappeared start adding stock one ladle at a time (about 2/3 cup) and cook stirring constantly until the rice absorbs the stock. Repeat until all of the stock is absorbed. After 8 or 9 minutes of this add the gorgonzola dolce. Continue to stir the cheese into the mixture for another four minutes." Are you saying add the gorgonzola just after the final dose of stock is absorbed? Or are you saying to cook the risotto for 8 or 9 minutes after the final stock is absorbed before adding the cheese? Thanks. Thu Apr 24 13:00:30 -0700 2003 1597567 0 nja 3 1597629 Sorry, didn't mean to create confusion. The total amount of time that you will ladle stock in and stir BEFORE adding the gorgonzola dolce is approximately 8 or 9 minutes. After this you will spend probably four minutes or so folding the chunks of gorgonzola into the mixture before it is completely absorbed. Thu Apr 24 14:55:01 -0700 2003 1597612 0 Joe H. 2 1597730 Joe-- I've read the many threads on your gorgonzola dolce risotto with much interest. Many have asked if this recipe can be halved. You've replied that you could not answer that question, as you have never tried to do so. I wonder if, for the benefit of Chowhound and science, you would be willing some time to try cooking a half portion (in a smaller pan, of course) to let us know if the proper result can be achieved in such quantities. It's not that I'm not willing to experiment with the halving myself; it's that I have no experience with making risotto, let alone this recipe, and thus wouldn't be able to judge properly how the halved version stacks up to the regular version. That said, thanks for posting your recipe. I look forward to trying it sometime--though I think it will require some working up to! :) km Fri Apr 25 15:00:46 -0700 2003 1597567 0 km 3 1597733 Same thing joe- wonder if and I realize it is asking a lot but maybe supplying another risotto recipe- which while may not scale the heights of the other- but comes very close that you have made before and will give us somewhat novice risotto makers ( I have made it at least three or four times and have been very happy with the result) to aspire to. In addition I live in the DC area and wonder, although from your posts I think the answer is no- where I could get risotto that I could judge what risotto should actually be like, other than your two favorites- L & M— because getting there will take a long while- seeing that it will take my significant other some time to get over our recent and enjoyable dinner ant Chez Auberge Le Francais. Also I added a little egg to my mushroom and spinach risotto last week and dropped into the pan like a pancake and cooked it in Plugra until crispy on each side and then served it with a fried egg on top for brunch the other morning and it was great. another rissotto recpie Fri Apr 25 16:23:30 -0700 2003 1597730 0 cocoagirl 4 1597740 D. C. area, eh? Hmmmm..... Maestro does not make a great risotto. Everything else but not this. (Believe it or not despite all of my accolades and enthusiasm!) Roberto Donna DOES at Laboratorio. Only Laboratorio. In fact he is one of the very FEW people on the face of the earth that really make truly GREAT risotto and I am including an awful lot of serious and starred restaurants in Italy in saying this. Very few people, especially in a restaurant kitchen, are willing to stand there for 15 minutes and do nothing else but stir rice and stock or wine until it is absorbed. Very few. Of course the ones that do are obsessive, yet they unquestionably make great risotto! Over the last year I've had a lot of Chowhounders (who have become real friends!) to our house to sample my risotto and test their individual limits of inebriation (!). I should note that to the best of my knowledge they are all still alive!(!!) (James G., Zora, Pappy, Jim Zurer ((all with significant others and/or wives)) and Roe Panella. I have a great deal of travel coming up because of my business but sometime this summer I'll do another party where risotto will be part of it. If you'll send me your e-mail I would really like to include you and your significant other. I think if you watch the preparation you'll feel that it's really much easier and less intimidating than it seems and you could easily do this at home. As for halving the recipe, well, probably not. It just works for me and I don't want to mess with it. But go to Laboratorio and insist on table #7. Roberto is incredible. Then, for the true test, come on out to Reston and compare the risottos. By then you will be an expert and a master. Fri Apr 25 18:14:19 -0700 2003 1597733 0 Joe H. 3 1597741 Please don't be mad at me but there are several reasons for not halving the recipe: 1. It turns out after X number of attempts at learning how to do it. X is a bigger number than might be expected. 2. There's enough for 16 people which works really well at a party when it is in my house. 3. When there's leftovers they are incredible. I cannot tell you how good this tastes at 4:00 in the morning when raiding the refrigerator! In fact forgive me for my arrogance but there is no other refrigerator in the world that I would want to open at 4:00AM than mine after I have made risotto the evening before! 4. For the amount of trouble and work involved you need leftovers and the 4:00AM experience! 5. From what I gather that others have done with the "leftovers" they must work really well for creating other dishes or appetizers. Fri Apr 25 18:20:55 -0700 2003 1597730 0 Joe H. 1 1597584 Watched Rachel Ray (30 Minute Meals)do a risotto in 20" without constant stirring that seemed to come out just fine. Link: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_22394,00.html Thu Apr 24 09:19:30 -0700 2003 1597566 0 Taralli 1 1597611 At the risk of being called a heretic, I have had great success making risotto in my pressure cooker. I just follow the instructions in the booklet that came with it. R Thu Apr 24 12:59:03 -0700 2003 1597566 0 Seattle Rose 2 1597614 I'm another cook happy with pressure cooker risotto. Lorna Sass' Cooking Under Pressure gives simple directions. Pressure cooking risotto is easy, quick and delicious. I've never been disappointed. Thu Apr 24 13:09:50 -0700 2003 1597611 0 ld 3 1597628 I have done it both ways. I think one has somewhat better control over the reduction and absorption the classic way (in the cooker, I suspect absorption tends to become more dominant than reduction, so one might not get as fine a distillation of flavors), but I wouldn't get snobbish about it and would never turn away a plate of cookered risotto. PS: People, do remember to warm the plates before serving. Americans really resist this part of the deal, and it does make a difference. PPS: There is also something vaguely therapeutic about the stirring for me, and I know for others, not from a sense of slavishness, but attentiveness (it's great to have something where you really can concentrate for a while on the single task at hand). Thu Apr 24 14:53:55 -0700 2003 1597614 0 Karl S. 4 1597637 Simple repetetive tasks are intensly soothing! Cooking in general is very relaxing. I completely enjoyed the process of making my gummy risotto (and stirring with my favorite wooden spoon). Thu Apr 24 15:30:56 -0700 2003 1597628 0 linza 2 1597638 Success is relative to expectations. Please don't be mad at me but it was "pressure cooker" rice that started this whole thing a year ago. It is almost impossible either here or in Italy to find correctly made risotto. I mean really, truly 100% "my reputation depends on the texture" correctly made, softly moan at your first bite risotto. I have never moaned at the first bite of anything that came out of a pressure cooker. Perhaps a smile but certainly not a moan! Thu Apr 24 15:40:24 -0700 2003 1597611 0 Joe H. 3 1597641 Nicely and non-snobbishly put, in the best chowhound manner. Thu Apr 24 16:02:23 -0700 2003 1597638 0 Karl S. 1 1597654 I hope these obsessive-compulsive types aren't intimidating you on risotto-making. I have been making risotto for over 50 years with Cal-Rose short-grain pearl rice, using canned chicken broth (or Minor's Chicken base) and parmesan or romano cheese. It does take a little practice however, to get the "feel" of the texture you want. Its OK to use plain old ordinary Safeway (or Costco) butter...and if you like the Roquefort/Bleu Cheese/Gorgonzola flavor, any one will do...the delicate nuances get lost in the cooking. And left-over risotto makes a great rice cake. Italians have been doing it for thousands of years. Put some Fontina in the middle and it becomes "telefono". Thu Apr 24 18:17:32 -0700 2003 1597566 0 Jim H.