292014 Tue Feb 25 14:09:36 -0800 2003 25 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1592174 I meant to save the recipe was it Jeffrey Toobin? recorded for Hunainese chicken but forgot. Does anyone have the issue to transcribe here? Has anyone made it? Tue Feb 25 14:09:36 -0800 2003 0 Dbird 1 1592180 Link to article below. Link: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030203fa_fact Tue Feb 25 14:31:28 -0800 2003 1592174 0 lucia 2 1592405 For the recipe (basically poached chicken) she says "...Add ginkgos to water." Does anybody know what ginkgos are? Wed Feb 26 15:12:18 -0800 2003 1592180 0 Sharuf 3 1592411 Same as ginko nut, just variation of spelling. Wed Feb 26 15:31:42 -0800 2003 1592405 0 lucia 4 1592487 Oh, well, that clears THAT up. Wed Feb 26 20:07:49 -0800 2003 1592411 0 Robert 5 1592497 Everything you wanted to know about ginkgos... Link: http://www.thenutfactory.com/kitchen/edible/facts-gingko.html Image: http://www.egregore.com/images/images/Ginkgo2.jpg Wed Feb 26 20:47:18 -0800 2003 1592487 0 Stanley Stephan 6 1592557 Thanks for the info. I actually have a ginkgo tree in front of my house, but it must be a male one because there is no fruit or nuts. The ginkgo writeup said ginkgos are not raised commercially, so I assume I cannot get them, even in Chinatown. 'scuse me, but I get really annoyed with recipes which do this sort of thing to a person, and don't even have the grace to suggest a substitute for those of us who don't have access to some extremely esoteric ingredient. Thu Feb 27 11:07:46 -0800 2003 1592497 0 Sharuf 7 1592575 I didn't read the whole article, but if it says gingkos aren't available commercially, it's wrong. As I said in my post, they're sold dried, canned or vacuum-packed in Chinatown in SF and have been for as long as I've been alive. Not esoteric at all. Thu Feb 27 12:03:03 -0800 2003 1592557 0 Melanie Wong 8 1592607 Actually it says that the nuts that are sold in China and Japan are a wild crop that is gathered and sold. There is no commercial agricultural crop, I'm guessing that means there are not ginkgo farms. Now how true that is, I don't know since it says there is no commercial value to the crop. This was from a Seattle Company that sells dried fruit and nuts. I guess from their perspective, it wasn't something they would sell. However, it was a nice little easy to read summary on Ginkos. The link below is a lot more informative. I was actually wondering what a ginko nut was myself, never having seen them fresh at the Berkely Bowl or the farmer's market. Searching the web info seems to fall into two categories .... botanical and medicinal. Even looking for recipes, there are not that many out there. Before I made this next comment, I want to qualify. I may start reading the New Yorker again. It was one of the few, fair articles on Martha Stewart and her predicament. IMO, with all her money, I always thought that the chump change for this transaction would not have led her do this as insider trading. Also, it was so unfair. Those Exxon execs rob millions of a secure retirement and there is a big deal about Martha's little transaction. Even being more unfair, this Friday's Law and Order is about a woman executive who does insider trading and then kills the people who can implicate her. Come on folks, leave Martha alone. THAT all being said, the outer shell of the Ginko nut is toxic. And I had a secret chuckle about the mention in the New Yorker article that Martha was distressed that she forgot to serve the journalist the ginko. Link: http://www.itmonline.org/arts/ginkgo.htm Thu Feb 27 15:10:55 -0800 2003 1592575 0 Stanley Stephan 9 1592618 Reading the first article you linked to, my interpretation is that the author is saying it is not a commercial crop and has no commercial value domestically in the UNITED STATES, and that any nuts that are picked up as windfall are exported for sale to China and Japan. Your second article mentions that there are no wild trees left in China, implying that the trees are cultivated there, presumably for commercial agricultural purposes. Whether these interpretations are true are not, my point to Sharuf is that it is possible to buy ginkgo nuts in the US easily and that there's no need to be angry with the recipe author The canned ones are imported from China, haven't paid attention to the origins of the other forms. Occasionally some fresh ones will be available in Chinatown too, but in small quantities, probably from a tree in someone's backyard. Thu Feb 27 16:17:14 -0800 2003 1592607 0 Melanie Wong 10 1592720 "...Occasionally some fresh ones will be available in Chinatown too, but in small quantities, probably from a tree in someone's backyard." Melanie, TomMeg's back yard, as well as a couple of his neighbors, has been the morning gathering ground for many older asian people(some Chinese, some Korean)in the late fall season. Fresh Ginkgo nuts are very labor intensive because of the stinky fruit outside the nuts, but they are quite beautiful. When raw it's a light opaque yellow. If you toast them though, they become bright green and translucent, like jade. Alas, the conventional method of preparation seem to call for blanching, and then cooking for a long time, past the pretty jade stage. Gingko nuts can be purchased from street vendors(probably those who gather nuts from other people's backyard), or from Chinese herb stores. Fri Feb 28 12:05:58 -0800 2003 1592618 0 HLing 11 1592736 Thanks for the info, I've not played with fresh ones yet. Are they edible when just toasted at the pretty stage? And, how stinky is stinky? Fri Feb 28 13:18:32 -0800 2003 1592720 0 Melanie Wong 12 1592805 I've eaten many a freshly roasted jewel looking ginkgo nuts. At at point they have a somewhat firm and bouncy texture, and a very slight bitter taste. The fruit looks like a small apricot. If you get it on your hands, it feels like a very greasy, and water proof coating. How stinky you ask? In the beginning, I didn't know it was the fruit, and I would always check and re check the bottom of my shoes when I get close to the yard, thinking that I've stepped in something nasty. Fri Feb 28 22:25:16 -0800 2003 1592736 0 HLing 9 1592648 Ah, Stanley, I once again agree with you. As a loyal Martha watcher (I tape her daily) and reader, I've been bummed to see her company stock so badly hit, and her character so repeatedly maligned. I've been hesitant to speak out here or to my friends in conversation since so many people seem so violently against her, and I am not a person who enjoys the kind of nasty confrontations that defending Martha seems to incite. I've wondered, as Martha did in that article, why so many people seem to hate her so much. I know about the unathorized biography that said she is a slave-driver and is incredibly cruel and vindictive, but I hesitate to believe all those things, too. I've wondered, for example, why people don't hate with as much bile Bob Villa, for example. He was accused of doing something shady (I believe it was not paying for someone's improvements, or lying about a price to homeowners, or something along those lines) and people don't seem to hate him nearly as much. And he's like Martha in a lot of ways -- I've watched him trying to convince me that I could install drywall -- "Look, it's easy, just take your 3/8th inch drill bit, etc" kind of stuff -- that just made me cringe. Sure, Bob, it's easy for you -- but for those of us who don't have (and don't care to have?) all those cordless tools and equipment or any training or aptitude for home repair, could this even be possible, much less "easy"? I know that's how people feel about Martha -- that she's a perfectionist and needlessly detail-oriented person who is just trying to make us all feel inadequate - -but I've always thought that this judgement is from people who don't have an interest in cooking, cleaning old silver, making their own dupioni silk curtains, or gardening from seed. So don't watch her! Her EveryDay food magazine that has just come out is an example of her trying to be in touch with what a working family can feasibly cook for dinner on a weeknight. I have the first issue, and I consider most of the recipes almost ridiculously easy, and have been good-tasting to boot. It's one step above the "mix campbell's soup with..." school of cooking, and two or three steps below most of the recipes on her show or in her cookbooks. It's a good balance, and I haven't seen any magazine out there that even remotely replicates it. She really has filled a void here -- making something small and seasonal that you can pick up at the supermarket, take with you around the store to get the four or five ingredients needed for each dish (and they really are short ingredient lists -- a real plus on time-saving) and then stuff it in your purse after you've checked out. The small size and the seasonal nature of it will mean that the average working Mom or Dad or just harried couples or singles can actually cook something edible, healthier than a frozen meal, and decent-to-delicious every night. What's Bob Villa done for the average working Joe/Josephine, lately? Part of it, of course, is Ms Stewarts sometimes frosty and arrogant persona. That's unfortunate, but from what I've seen on TV and read about her, it appears she tries to be warm. The problem in this country is that we judge famous women sometimes by such impossible standards. Martha is a pretty good-looking 60 year old, a fantastically successful business woman, and very very talented separate from her business acumen. We seem to hate women like that -- and vilify them since they don't fit into the "movie star" or "talented but not beautiful" category. Also, the moral standard seems to be higher for women (which I can argue is both a good and a bad thing) who are in the spotlight. It seems that many people -- women even more than men, I'm sad to say -- were gleefully rubbing their hands when Martha got accused of this. Aha! They said. Of course she's too good to be true! She's really a double-crossing insider trader, and all those bad things about her are true. Sure I don't know her personally, and I have no knowledge of her character. I just love how men (Bill Clinton, for example?) get away with much grosser crimes, and Martha is convicted and hung by the public before it's even proved she did it. Knowing her history as a broker, her undeniably sharp business sense, and the fact that she was considered knowledgeable enough to be on the Board of the NYSE at one point (now stripped of that unless her innocence is proved), I find it HIGHLY unlikely that she would do any insider trading deal. I just don't believe that she is that stupid. It's pretty sad that someone who, in my opinion, has had almost as much impact on American cooking (and other things like gardening and design) as Julia Child will be remembered for something she may not even have done. I hope the truth comes out -- whether she did it or not -- so that she can be judged fairly, and perhaps the American popular judgement can be corrected in respect to female celebrities. Thu Feb 27 18:32:22 -0800 2003 1592607 0 Mrs. Smith 10 1592650 ... and who gets worse press? Bill, the good old boy, or ice-cold Hilary? BTW ... Anyone? How does a gingko taste? I really liked the New Yorker article because it did state the facts and was a good piece of reporting. It was why I read it in the pre Tina days. If you see the movie "Chicago" so much reporting reminds me of the puppet scene in that movie. Also, I learned more about food. I now know wat a ginkgo is, where to buy it and how to cook with it (but that's not my thing)? I'm really being evil with this post. I wonder if the Chowhound team will get it? I wanted to talk a little more about Martha but put food references in to keep in on the board. Honest, I really DO want to know how a ginko tastes. Thu Feb 27 18:50:21 -0800 2003 1592648 0 Stanley Stephan 11 1592808 I've never tasted ginko, so can't help with that. OTOH, ginko is a common street tree (curb) where I live, and I can tell you that the outer flesh smells awful. Sometimes when you step out of your car, you can't help but step on them and only wish that you could as you walk away with the acrid stink following you on your shoes. It's true, it's ok to be execs who through malfeasance and/or mismanagement ruin your company, throw the state of California and its citizens into virtual bankruptcy, destroy the savings of both your stockholders (many of whom are employees not allowed to sell the stock) and destroy the pensions and jobs of your emplyess. But a high profile woman who is a heavy contributor to the Democratic party better watch out if she makes a stock trade that is potentially questionable. Fri Feb 28 23:34:01 -0800 2003 1592650 0 saucyknave 11 1592854 Which reminds me of a Garrison Keillor piece, wherein, attending a parade shortly after Gottlieb's demise, he espies Tina approaching upon a white charger, and calls her over. "Tina -- I really LOVE what you've done with the magazine." "Oh, thenkyew thenkyew." "Yes, it used to be that my New Yorkers all piled up unread beside my bedside and I felt so guilty -- and now I don't!" Sun Mar 02 11:36:41 -0800 2003 1592650 0 Robert 8 1592729 If you gotta go to Chinatown to find it, that makes it esoteric. There's the 15-mile drive, then the $5 bridge toll, then there's (AAARRRGGGHH!) the parking. It's not like this is a reasonably available item for most of us. Fri Feb 28 12:59:29 -0800 2003 1592575 0 Sharuf 9 1592734 I've found them in Chinatown, that's just my personal buying habit. You could buy them canned in the ubiquitous Asian grocery stores and supers that have sprung up all over the Bay Area neighborhoods where "most of us" live...although I don't know of one in Marin. You could pay a $2 bridge toll and head to Ranch 99 in the East Bay. Guess you are deprived up there - must be lots of "esoteric" items by that definition. Fri Feb 28 13:15:40 -0800 2003 1592729 0 Melanie Wong 7 1592853 Really. Add at least ten months to her sentence! Sun Mar 02 11:31:47 -0800 2003 1592557 0 Robert 7 1592861 I saw FROZEN ginkos yesterday at the International Food Warehouse (not affiliated with others), which is basically a oriental store, in Brooklyn NY, 37th Street and 3rd Avenue. Probably other well stocked Chinese supermarkets will carry these too. I also frequently see dried ginkos in Chinese supermarkets. Finally, here in Park Slope Brooklyn, there are a LOT of female Ginko trees. Along the streets and in the parks one sees older Chinese and burmese people (a burmese family used to harvest the ginkos down the street from me) harvesting the incredibly stinky fruits, while the rest of us try as hard as we can to avoid stepping on them. Believe me, if you are ever around a female ginko in fruit, and the pervasive smell of vomit, you will never forget it - so be glad you have a male tree if you do. Perhaps in her pursuit of perfection, Martha harvests her own ginko nuts (though a perfect gardener would never plant the female tree). Sun Mar 02 13:35:54 -0800 2003 1592557 0 jen kalb 5 1592507 Hey, sorry about that! Sometimes you think you're giving too much information. Wed Feb 26 22:18:02 -0800 2003 1592487 0 lucia 3 1592499 Gingkos are also labeled as white nuts. However the recipe wasn't clear about whether to use fresh, caned or dried. They'll need different cooking times and prep. Wed Feb 26 21:09:26 -0800 2003 1592405 0 Melanie Wong 1 1592183 Link to story attached. Got it from the "Save Martha" website (chuckle, chuckle). Link: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030203fa_fact Tue Feb 25 14:38:50 -0800 2003 1592174 0 cinghiale` 1 1592306 The article says it's Hunan chicken, but I wonder if she meant Hainanese chicken which is cooked like that. Wed Feb 26 04:32:08 -0800 2003 1592174 0 susanj 2 1592498 From the additions, I think it's Yunnan chicken, except the special steamer wasn't used. Wed Feb 26 21:08:13 -0800 2003 1592306 0 Melanie Wong