292005 Mon Feb 24 23:14:40 -0800 2003 46 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1592075 I just got home from running a hospitality suite for a small convention this weekend. This is the third time I've worked on the "consuite" for this group, so I have very detailed notes about what has been consumed in the past. We thought attendance might be down a little since the last time we hosted two years ago, so I bought slightly less beer than was drunk last time. I bought a couple of cases of the same beer (Sierra Nevada Pale Ale) they drank two cases of last time, plus assorted six-packs from small local breweries in the Bay Area. *Good* beer. Astonishingly, even though we had about the same number of attendees, I have about two-thirds of it leftover! In other words, the same people in the same hotel suite at the same time of year only drank A THIRD of what they drank two years ago. On the other hand, they sucked down three cases of assorted Charles Shaw wine (last time we only had about a case of wine). Among other things, I credit the low-carb diet fad (which several people mentioned). Has anyone else noticed this trend? Is it just a statistical fluke, or is Atkins going to make a significant dent in the beer industry? Mon Feb 24 23:14:40 -0800 2003 0 Ruth Lafler 1 1592076 "Among other things, I credit the low-carb diet fad (which several people mentioned)." 100 ml of beer contains about 45 calories 100 ml of wine contains about 75 calories Either people are deluding themselves, or Atkins isn't it. Mon Feb 24 23:23:52 -0800 2003 1592075 0 Paul H 2 1592081 On the other hand, wine has about 3 times as much alcohol by volume. You can get the same buzz and imbibe fewer calories. Mon Feb 24 23:32:55 -0800 2003 1592076 0 Gary Soup 3 1592084 I am pretty certain that alcohol is the only source of calories in both beer and wine. If that is true, you have to drink more beer to get the same buzz you'd get from less wine, but the total calories would be the same. If I am mistaken and there is some other source of calories in beer, what is it? Mon Feb 24 23:40:33 -0800 2003 1592081 0 Paul H 4 1592087 Carbohydrates -- thus the Atkins problem. See discussion of carbs in beer linked below: Link: http://www.realbeer.com/library/beerbreak/archives/beerbreak0303.php Tue Feb 25 00:07:53 -0800 2003 1592084 0 Ruth Lafler 5 1592096 Great info - carb count of beer. Thanks. I just knew beer had far less carbs then wine, a fruit juice high in sugar, thus carbs. Tue Feb 25 00:43:24 -0800 2003 1592087 0 kc girl 6 1592143 Actually, it doesn't -- that's the whole point of this discussion. In a dry table wine, all the sugar from the grape juice is converted into alcohol. There're very few carbohydrates left. I know it seems counterintuitive, but I learned this from my sister who counts carbs because she's diabetic. Wine is basically "free" for her. Tue Feb 25 12:09:23 -0800 2003 1592096 0 Ruth Lafler 7 1592147 While it does seem counter-intuitive, wine is relatively low carbohydrate. Empty calories, yes, but carbohydrates, no. Did a quick google and the average Sutter Home wine had 2-3 grams of carbohydrate per 4-oz serving. Sweet wines, of course, had more, the moscato with almost 12 grams. Your average can of budweiser has 12 grams or so per 12 oz serving. Link: http://www.greatbaybud.com/nutritio.htm Tue Feb 25 12:24:29 -0800 2003 1592143 0 norjah 8 1592276 Calories in food come from fat, protein, or carbohydrates. Wine has no fat and no protein (only trace amounts). What does that leave? Not only is it counter-intuitive to maintain that wine is low in carbohydrates it is wrong. A given weight of wine will have less carbohydrates than a given weight of sugar, because wine contains water as well as alcohol (carbohydrates). But whatever calories you get from wine you are going to get from carbohydrates. Tue Feb 25 22:18:39 -0800 2003 1592147 0 Paul H 9 1592283 Wrong Paul. Alcohol has calories -- almost twice as many calories per gram as carbohydrates. Tue Feb 25 23:38:20 -0800 2003 1592276 0 Ruth Lafler 9 1592304 alcohol is distinct from carbohydrate. carbohydrate, protein= 4 cal/gram alcohol = 7 cal/gram fat = 9 cal/gram interestingly, it seems that for regular consumers of alcohol, the tendency is to compensate for the caloric value of alcohol intake by decreasing the amount of other food eatern. problem is that it's empty calories, so that's why severe alcoholics tend to get malnourished. Wed Feb 26 04:02:31 -0800 2003 1592276 0 ericf 5 1592125 On Friday nights I just tell my wife I am getting "carbo loaded" for my long Saturday morning bike ride. ;-D Tue Feb 25 09:59:03 -0800 2003 1592087 0 WLA 6 1592131 And after the ride, it's carb replacement -- assuming the ride is long enough to get you past noon. B^} Tue Feb 25 10:43:17 -0800 2003 1592125 0 GG Mora 4 1592088 There are other carbohydrates in beer. Even non-alcoholic beer can contain 25-30 calories per 100ml. See the link below. Link: http://brewery.org/brewery/library/AlClbinger.html Tue Feb 25 00:09:20 -0800 2003 1592084 0 Gary Soup 2 1592085 Wine has twice (or more) alcohol by volume, which is why it has more calories. Not only does wine have more alcohol, but a gram of alcohol has almost twice as many calories as a gram of carbohydrates (7 vs. 4). So if you have more than twice as many grams of alcohol, and each gram of alcohol has almost twice the calories, the ratio of alcohol calories to non-alcohol calories per volume is going to be roughly four times higher for wine than for beer. The even worse news is that fuller bodied beers have more carbohydrates per gram. On the other hand, dry table wines are actually quite low in carbohydrates. Mon Feb 24 23:56:32 -0800 2003 1592076 0 Ruth Lafler 3 1592246 A four ounce glass of dry table wine has 100 calories. A six-oz. glass (more common) has 150 calories. A 750ml bottle of wine is 25.4 oz. A half bottle of wine is 318 calories. An entire bottle of wine is 600+ calories. If you are eating at a fine restaurant your meal might easily be 1,000 calories. Then add the wine. Bottom line: when counting calories, watch the wine! Tue Feb 25 18:44:30 -0800 2003 1592085 0 Paul H 4 1592267 Your evil person you. How DARE you compute the calories in a bottle of wine. I knew it was about 100 calories a glass and probably a smaller serving that the usual. What's a 100 calories here and there. But now i KNOW how many calories in that whole bottle. Well, at least a bottle of wine has fewer calories than a pint of Hagen Daaz. Tue Feb 25 20:49:54 -0800 2003 1592246 0 Stanley Stephan 4 1592397 True, but people on Atkins don't count *calories* they count *carbs* (I'm not endorsing this system, just explaining it). Wed Feb 26 14:18:41 -0800 2003 1592246 0 Ruth Lafler 1 1592077 I don't think it's always diet or health concerns (but it could be, depending on the age of the attendees). I'm finding that bars and taverns in my area have been hurt by tougher crackdowns on drunk drivers. Some people are afraid to have more than 2 or 3 drinks away from home if they're driving. That could be the reason. Mon Feb 24 23:24:46 -0800 2003 1592075 0 Marco 2 1592080 Since most people were staying in the convention hotel, this didn't apply. Mon Feb 24 23:32:29 -0800 2003 1592077 0 Ruth Lafler 1 1592082 If you have lots of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale left over I'll be glad to help you out. A friend and I constitute a 2 man disposal squad who will make your problem disappear in no time at all. Mon Feb 24 23:33:29 -0800 2003 1592075 0 Bob Martinez 2 1592086 Thanks for the offer, but I'm going to see if Costco will take the unopened case back (anyone know if they will?). I split what was left with the convention chairperson, and I ended up with the unopened case and a mixed case (Sierra Nevada, Anchor Steam, and assorted microbrews). Anyone want to plan a chowevent it would be appropriate to bring it to (I never touch the stuff myself -- it tastes like what it is: spoiled bread)? Tue Feb 25 00:04:19 -0800 2003 1592082 0 Ruth Lafler 3 1592089 " it tastes like what it is : spoiled bread" OUCH ! Clearly , NOT a beer lover . Perhaps the trendoids of California are foolishly listening to the Adkins diet , but here in the midwest , beer flows as it always has , freely . Seriously , I'm worried about all the people that avoid regular beer in favor of " light " beers , and think it's ok to gorge on bacon and steaks . A cardioligists dream . Tue Feb 25 00:14:56 -0800 2003 1592086 0 GoalieJeff 4 1592101 Don't tar us all with the same brush. There are plenty of us out here who know that beer is the wine that goes with everything. Tue Feb 25 01:50:50 -0800 2003 1592089 0 Gary Soup 5 1592102 How right you are...beer is a versitile beverage and I'm certainly not drinking any less of it. Heck, I even cook with it from time to time. Tue Feb 25 02:06:47 -0800 2003 1592101 0 Marco 5 1592116 >>beer is the wine that goes with everything.<< HEY! Don't insult beer by comparing it to wine... Tue Feb 25 08:26:52 -0800 2003 1592101 0 Guy 4 1592132 Hey, take it from an Atkins devotee for three years now and a Californian to boot, give me a Miller Lite anytime. And I haven't gorged on anything for three years and certainly don't need the services of a cardiologist, or any other m.d. for that matter. Tue Feb 25 10:50:47 -0800 2003 1592089 0 Neta 1 1592092 Hi Ruth, Having read all the other posts, I don't think anyone's hit on the answer. I think maybe you might have more women at the convention, who tend to drink other drinks or at least less beer per quaffita. Not to start a flamboratory, but in my experience, even beer-drinking women don't drink the same quantity as men do. What was the convention for---hope it's not beer people! lucia Tue Feb 25 00:30:33 -0800 2003 1592075 0 lucia 1 1592098 Ruth, it may have been the availability factor that beer was drank. You mention that you only had one case of wine last year and three cases this year. There would be no way to know if the beer was drank as a preference or as a necessity. Also, were the food choices the same? Beer compliments some food that wine would not and vice versa. Also, the low carbs was fairly faddish in past years and beer, in fact would be better on a low calorie, low carb diet that a glass of Charles Shaw wine (unless one is going for the "buzz" effect) Tue Feb 25 00:54:25 -0800 2003 1592075 0 kc girl 1 1592120 This is an interesting question. Mostly because when I thought about it I realized that I drink significantly less beer, and much more wine than I used to, and I'm not sure why. Right now I think I would attribute it to the time of year. When it's cold outside a glass of wine just seems more right than a cold beer. On the other hand, when the weather gets warmer you will never see me uncork a bottle on the golf course. Another reason is health. When the claims came out that "a glass" of red at dinner was good for you, I figured what the hell, why re-cork it. Also being able to get a (prepare for relative term) decent bottle of wine for the same price as a six pack makes a big difference. But still when I'm at a gathering, given the choice of wine or beer I choose beer. So to answer your question, I don't know. Tue Feb 25 08:56:29 -0800 2003 1592075 0 Bobfrmia 2 1592121 Cold months are actually the best time for beer lovers. All kinds of big, complex barley wines, old ales, imperial stouts, ... Tue Feb 25 09:06:05 -0800 2003 1592120 0 Jim Dorsch 3 1592123 My apologies. Of course you are right. I would be more apt to pour a Murphys or an Anchor Porter in February than in July. But I would be more likely to kill a keg of Budweiser in July. Tue Feb 25 09:33:37 -0800 2003 1592121 0 Bobfrmia 4 1592124 In the summer, think about a Belgian white (Hoegaarden, for example) or a German hefeweizen (Spaten, Paulaner, Ayinger) or an American-style hefeweizen (Widmer, Pyramid). Very refreshing, but much more flavorful (and quenching IMO) than Bud. Tue Feb 25 09:39:45 -0800 2003 1592123 0 Jim Dorsch 5 1592194 Thats a lot of imported stuff... if I wanted something really flavorful on a hot summer day (after yard work, or something) I _MIGHT_ upgrade to a miller genuine draft or a michelob, but you can keep your strange belgian stuff. Tue Feb 25 15:25:46 -0800 2003 1592124 0 Terence 6 1592229 In what way is Hoegaarden strange? Tue Feb 25 17:25:41 -0800 2003 1592194 0 Jim Dorsch 7 1592346 I loathe products with vowel clusters in their name. Just kidding. I like beef, and steak, don't I? HoegAArden is just too strongly flavored to me. I feel like I'm drinking some wild exotic juice. There's just too much going on -- wild overtones of cinnamon or cloves or god knows what. In the context I mentioned --hot day, yard work, etc I like beers that taste of very little. In fact, even in the middle of winter, I like very one-dimensional (bland even?) beer -- light, crisp lagers or pilsners. I guess I'm a bland beer guy. Which, frankly you should approve of. More Hoegaarden for you. Wed Feb 26 10:44:33 -0800 2003 1592229 0 Terence 8 1592450 Just so you know, white beers like Hoegaarden are made with bitter orange peel and coriander. And (not trying to convert you here ...) the citrus flavors, and sometimes a slight sourness, are quite refreshing. Wed Feb 26 17:38:16 -0800 2003 1592346 0 Jim Dorsch 9 1592463 Bitter orange peel and coriander. An appealing combination. I might put that in a chicken curry, but then I'd probably drink a Bud Light with it. I do apologize for bringing my pedestrian tastes to your attention, and in such an (as i reread my post) ill-bred fashion. I know that those with a raised consciousness on malt and hops issues are frustrated by people who are satisfied with mass-produced brew. But I can't imagine drinking anything else after a day spent clearing brush or yanking stumps. Or fighting my way through the crowds at the Barney's Warehouse Sale. Wed Feb 26 18:43:09 -0800 2003 1592450 0 Terence 10 1592502 Not to worry! I got back at you with the stuff about coriander and orange peel. Wed Feb 26 21:21:03 -0800 2003 1592463 0 Jim Dorsch 11 1592581 Yeah. That stung. :) Thu Feb 27 12:19:27 -0800 2003 1592502 0 Terence 5 1592196 Agreed that there are better choices than Bud in the summer. I kept AB profitable with the amount of Michelob hefeweizen I bought last year (and I know there are better choices). Sometimes you go with what you can afford. I hate to think what it would cost for 16 gallons of German Hefeweizen. Tue Feb 25 15:29:28 -0800 2003 1592124 0 Bobfrmia 6 1592230 Michelob Hefeweizen isn't bad, and I expect it's a good value. A keg of German beer would probably run over $100, for 13.2 gallons instead of 15.5 gallons of Mich Hefe. Tue Feb 25 17:28:37 -0800 2003 1592196 0 Jim Dorsch 7 1592317 My son is stationed in Germany. When he came home for Christmas he brought $200.00 worth of various German beers for gifts. When he landed at the Detroit airport they confiscated it all. He's 19, legal in Germany, not here. He was pissed. I just cried. They are not drinking less beer at the Detroit airport. Wed Feb 26 08:41:08 -0800 2003 1592230 0 Bobfrmia 8 1592449 That's such a shame. I visited a beer festival in Antwerp a couple years ago and anyone who was maybe 15 or older was admitted. And no problems because of it. The attitude toward alcohol in this country ... why, today another 'report' was issued claiming young (underage) people drink 20% of the beer in the US, or some such nonsense. Wed Feb 26 17:35:40 -0800 2003 1592317 0 Jim Dorsch 4 1592192 Leave the keg behind...get yourself a good Belgian white or hefe-weizen. Your taste buds will thank you. Tue Feb 25 15:16:35 -0800 2003 1592123 0 DeeDee 1 1592135 It could have been the "Two Buck Chuck" factor, Ruth. That wine has received so much press that folks at the convention might have just wanted to try it. Once they started with wine, they would be less apt to switch to beer. Tue Feb 25 11:21:34 -0800 2003 1592075 0 Nancy Berry 1 1592144 It may be regional as well. Up here in the Pac. NW beer is quaffed by the gallon. Tue Feb 25 12:10:48 -0800 2003 1592075 0 Hunter