292004 Mon Feb 24 22:58:03 -0800 2003 9 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1592074 I just bought a deep fryer and I'm experimenting with different oils. I've heard that beef tallow is the ideal medium because it can withstand such high temperatures. Where do you get beef tallow? Can you find "clean" tallow that won't have a beefy or meaty overtones? What other oils do you recommend for deep frying. So far I've tried vegetable shortening (so so), and a mixture of peanut and generic vegetable oil (good). Mon Feb 24 22:58:03 -0800 2003 0 Lindsay Beyerstein 1 1592090 Umm , you could try making beef tallow . Boiled and rendered beef fat , resolidified in the fridge . I don't know if my uneducated version of beef tallow is correct , but it's great for browning beef cuts for stew and such , it seldom ever smokes . As for oils , I believe peanut oil is preferable , as long as no one has any allergy issues . ( Why are so many people allergic to peanuts , anyway ? ) I use canola ( rapeseed ) oil in my deep fryer when I use it . It's cheaper , and I seldom deep fry . Tue Feb 25 00:19:50 -0800 2003 1592074 0 GoalieJeff 1 1592094 Ditto on the peanut oil recommendation. I would stay away from vegetable shortening, e.g., Crisco because it is hydrogenated fat and it will clog up your arteries faster than anything. I'd use lard before I use hydrogenated fat...by the way, I think lard is pretty good for frying as well. I'm not sure how it compares with beef tallow for frying. Didn't McDonald's used to use beef tallow mixed with their oil to make french fries? I think that was what made them taste so good. Tue Feb 25 00:37:59 -0800 2003 1592074 0 Margret 2 1592099 Frying in Peanut oil makes outstandingly flavorful french fries, too. Too bad its too expensive to offer from a fast food place like McDonalds. (I had peanut fried "frites" at a now defunct fast food place on the side of the road in the California redwoods area.) Link: http://edibleoils.net/cooking_oils.htm Tue Feb 25 01:06:41 -0800 2003 1592094 0 kc girl 2 1592146 They hydrogentate a lot of lard (so they can store and sell at room temp) so read the label. Tue Feb 25 12:15:42 -0800 2003 1592094 0 muD 2 1592227 The other key to good tasting fried food is to use used oil..fresh oil just doesn't cut it. Check out Alton Brown's book, "I'm Just Here for the Food" dfor an excellent explanation of why this is, plus lots of other good information about successful frying. You might be able to find this information, without buying the book, by checking out his website at www.altonbrown.com or do a search on his name or "Good Eats" at www.foodtv.com Tue Feb 25 17:23:33 -0800 2003 1592094 0 kenzi 3 1592309 I have an acquaintance who owns a seafood restaurant that turns out great fried food (I prefer fried food to be closer to "golden" than "golden brown.") Said acquaintance uses a 50-50 mix of canola and corn oil, which he keeps very fresh. Oil begins to break down from heating long before reaching its smoking point and can even turn rancid in a closed container. The older, more used an oil is, the greasier your food will be and the darker it will turn before getting cooked. However, as also noted in another post, completely fresh oil doesn't brown food well - it has to do with the fact that oil and water don't mix and most food is mostly water. Russ Parsons in his book "How to Read a French Fry" explains this and recommends a tablespoon or so of old oil per cup of fresh. The first 20 pages of Parsons' book is a compendium of wisdom about the art of frying, if you can get your hands on a copy. Wed Feb 26 06:59:48 -0800 2003 1592227 0 hermitt4d 1 1592299 I have actual information for you, as opposed to general opinion: safflower has the highest smoke point...tallow/lard the lowest... Oh dear, I left an extended message with links yesterday. I can't imagine that it would have been deleted, even by the rigid chowhound team. So I'll paraphrase as best as I can, I spent a lot of time on that post, with citations. I have only done small, intensive amounts of deep frying on and off, usually using a pot and thermometer; I have deepfried whole fish. I read extensively on food and cooking so... You might be surprised that beef tallow (lard) is prized for flavor. It does not give a recognized beef flavor as such. Just flavor. The McDonald empire built the famed fries upon beef tallow/lard. When they went to veg oil, perhaps due to health demands, they added a natual beef flavor to the oil so consumers would be pleased with the transition. Since they did not disclose this, they were recently sued by vegetarian and Hindu groups. However, more to the point of your question, this fat does NOT withstand high temps. This is totally false. You can use any search engine and type in "smoke point of fats", to find that any animal lard has a very low smoke point, having impurities. Fats that stay solid at room temp, including animal fats/tallow and hydrogenated vegetable oils have a long shelf life, are easy to handle, and so are attractive to fast food and other commerical outlets. Avoid these unhealthy saturated fats, especially solid vegetable fats that contain the trans-fats. It is unnecessary for your use; it is designed to sit for a long time at room temp in solid condition. It also does not have a high smoke point. Your best best are the more healthy polyunsaterates, safflower is king, I usually use canola for cost reasons, and peanut is good. Don't use cheap generic vegetable oil for anything, and don't cut good oil with that. You can maximize your use of these more expensive oils by knowing the smoke point, so you don't overly cause the oil to deteriorate and can reuse. Read, read below. Also look for bulk, discount providers. You can read the link I liked best below, but pay attention to FoodTV food scientist Alton Brown. In addition to this board, you might want to look for boards more cooking-centric. I have found great places with detailed exploration from very experienced people and extensive address of food science/chemistry issues. from http://www.culinary-yours.com/frying_oil.html Read the above link for good tips on reusing and extending life of your oil. Smoke Points Safflower 265 degrees C Sunflower 246 degrees C Soybean 241 degrees C Canola 238 degrees C Corn 236 degrees C Peanut 231 degrees C Sesame 215 degrees C Olive 190 degrees C Lards 183 to 205 degrees C A number of factors will decrease the smoke point of any fat: combination of vegetable oils in products presence of foreign properties (batter) temperature to which oil is heated presence of salt number of times oil is used length of time oil is heated storage of oil (exposure to oxygen, light, temperature) Knowing the smoke point will also warn you about, because of its proximity to, the flash point and fire point. An oil reaches its flash point (about 320 degrees C (600 degrees F) for most oils) when tiny wisps of fire begin to leap from its surface. If the oil is heated to its fire point (slightly under 400 degrees C (700 degrees F) for most oils), its surface will be ablaze. Be sure to read Alton Brown on the subject; I had the link yesterday, but now it won't come up. He says as polyunsaturates. Meaning safflower oil, canola oil, peanut oil, corn oil. He says not to use monosaturates, which breakdown more quickly. His site explained some basic chemistry on the subject. Link: http://www.culinary-yours.com/frying_oil.html Wed Feb 26 03:08:40 -0800 2003 1592074 0 Thea 2 1592323 Hi Thea, Please check your Hotmail account. We sent an explanation to you yesterday. But for future reference: We're very careful at Chowhound about any possiblity for copyright infringement. To get around the copyright issue, you can feel free to either 1. paraphrase an article or 2. provide a link to the article, if you can find it somewhere else online. If you have any questions, please ask them on the Site Talk board, and we'll do our best to answer them. Wed Feb 26 09:40:17 -0800 2003 1592299 2 The Chowhound Team 2 1592371 What's wrong with "cheap generic vegetable oil"? Isn't it usually pure soybean or sunflower oil? Wed Feb 26 12:05:58 -0800 2003 1592299 0 C. Fox