Just a couple of thoughts...
I have searched high and low to find a commercially bottled Russian dressing, and only occasionally come upon Ken's Steak House brand Russian Dressing. Sometimes I have the local Publix Supermarket (I'm in Florida) special-order Ken's Steak House brand. I think there is a bottled so-called Russian that is a thick, red-colored goop, but I wouldn't put it on a Reuben. I have come to believe that the "original" Reuben had Russian Dressing, and I love 'em that way.
I ran across a website (members.cox.net/jjschnebel/threuben.html) that said, "The most common substitution is 'Thousand Island Dressing' for 'Russian Dressing.' However, since few cooks today bother with chopped egg in 'Thousand Island' or bits of pimento in 'Russian Dressing,' the usual is actually just a mixture of mayonaise and chili sauce (ketchup and pickle relish)."
When I see "Reuben" on the menu of a good deli/restaurant, I will always ask what kind of dressing they use. If the server says "Thousand Island," I'll pass it by. One very popular deli/restaurant in Florida states right on the menu, "Russian Dressing." I got into a conversation about it with the manager, and he proudly brought out the wholesale-size jar from the back. Uh oh...clearly labeled "Thousand Island." I didn't say a word, neither did the manager- I guess it was "Russian" to him.
While the topic is Reubens, I have also learned that a "Corned Beef Special" in the Philadelphia area is: corned beef, swiss, cole slaw, and Russian, on rye.
A "Turkey Joe" (aka "Sloppy Joe," but not the Manwich ground beef kind) probably originated at the Town Hall Delicatessen in South Orange NJ, and consists of: 3 slices of rye bread, sliced to order, swiss cheese slices, cole slaw, and Russian Dressing. Pile on the layers. Variation: cross-cut the "Turkey Joe" for 4 finger food-size sandwiches.
Pepper's New York Deli offers the following (They say, "Please order by number."): 29)Brooklyn Bridge Reuben: Corned Beef, Pastrami, swiss, sauerkraut, cole slaw, Russian dressing, grilled on rye; 89) Williamsburg Bridge Reuben: Turkey, swiss, sauerkraut, Russian dressing, grilled on rye; 90) George Washington Bridge: Ham, swiss, cole slaw, Russian dressing, grilled on rye; 91) Queensburg Bridge Reuben: Prime roast beef, swiss, cole slaw, Russian dressing, grilled on rye; 94) Veggie Reuben: Swiss, sauerkraut, Russian dressing, roasted red peppers, cucumbers, lettuce, tomatoes, banana peppers, onions, toasted on rye.
I think regional variations are interesting.
(p.s. "Battle of the origins": 1914, Arnold Reuben at Reuben's, a deli at Madison Ave. and 59th, NYC, vs. 1920-1935, Reuben Kay, Omaha Nebraska- created during the regular weekly poker game, vs. 1956, Ms. Fern Snider, taking first place in the National Kraut Packers Association sandwich contest. Who knows?)
What is the difference between Russian Dressing and Thousand Island?
I always thought Russian was like a darker red smooth dressing (darker than the bottled "French" dressings), while Thousand Island is mayo-based. Sounds like that's what you're saying too, but could you just clarify exactly what the difference is for me?
re: Mrs. Smith
The diff between Russian and Thousand Island? Wellll, I hate to admit it, after my last post, but..."not much." In my too-much-time-on-my-hands search for the "perfect" Russian Dressing, I've run across lots of Thousand Island recipes and Russian Dressing recipes that are nearly identical. Probably why nobody asks for "Russian Dressing" anymore, when "Thousand" is so widely available, commercially.
That 'jjschnebel' website I mentioned says it boils down to chopped egg in one (Thousand) and pimiento in the other (Russian).
The commercial bottles I have in the 'fridge: Ken's Steak House Russian is slightly more orange than the pale Thousand Island. I don't like the deep orangy-reddish glop that is sometimes the only stuff with the name, 'Russian Dressing' in the supermarket. (Don't know the brand name there.)
If you're still with me, let me post here three Russian Dressing recipes and two Thousand Island recipes, for comparison. And none of my Russian examples happen to have pimiento (and one 'Russian' has chopped eggs....).
From the Supermarket Cookbook, 1955:
1/2 cup mayonaise
1/2 cup chili sauce
1 tablespoon each of chopped green pepper and chopped onion or chives.
(same page, Supermarket Cookbook):
THOUSAND ISLAND DRESSING-
1/2 cup mayonaise
1 tablespoon tarragon vinegar
1/4 cup heavy cream, whipped
1 chopped hard-cooked egg
1 tablespoon chopped green pepper
2 tablespoons chopped cooked beets
1 tablespoon chopped onion
1/2 teaspoon minced parsley
2 tablespoons chili sauce
Combine ingredients and mix well. Yield: 1+1/4 cups.
From Betty Crocker's Cookbook- Special Edition, 1976:
Mix 1/2 cup Mayonaise,
1/4 cup chili sauce, and
a few drops onion juice.
If desired, add 1 teaspoon lemon juice
(Yield) 3/4 cup.
(From same page, Betty Crocker):
THOUSAND ISLAND DRESSING:
Mix 1/2 cup Mayonaise,
1 tablespoon chili sauce,
1 tablespoon chopped pimiento-stuffed olives
1 teaspoon snipped olives,
1 hard-cooked egg, chopped,
1/4 teaspoon paprika, and
salt and pepper to taste
If desired, thin with whipping cream.
(Yield): 3/4 cup.
Some perishable ingredients, so use it quickly enough, with common sense and safety in mind.
As I was typing this in, I realized one reason why I might prefer making a batch of Russian over Thousand- it's simpler!
And I ran across Sheila Lukens' USA Cookbook version of Russian Salad Dressing, which includes a hard-cooked egg, so go figure!
3/4 cup mayonaise
3 Tablespoons ketchup
1+1/2 tablespoons sweet pickle relish
1 hard-cooked egg, finely chopped
Mix all the ingredients together in a small bowl. Refrigerate, covered, until ready to use, up to 8 hours.
Makes about 1 cup.
Sheila Lukens also says the first written recipe for Russian Dressing appeared in 1922, and contained pimientos and bell peppers.
If this is still the "Reuben" thread, I will close with the advice that whatever dressing you make should be put into service on your own very special variation of Reuben sandwich!!!!! Enjoy!!!!
re: Mrs. Smith
It may have a base of ketchup, mayonnaise, or yogurt, although the latter two ingredients are today more associated with Thousand Island dressing. Earlier historical recipes claiming to be Russian dressing usually do have a base of mayonnaise, and are in fact indistinguishable from modern Thousand Island dressing.
Ingredients may also include horseradish, pimentos, chives and various additional spices.
I can remember a train trip I took with an Aunt, from New York to Portland one summer. We stopped somewhere and ordered something (probably a salad) with Russian Dressing. The server looked at us like we were Communists....... of course this was probably in the late 50's.
I remember David Rosengarten on his Food TV show "Taste" made his version of a great Reuben Sandwich.
First, Rosengarten only toasted one side (the outside half) of his rye bread. He like the texture better and avoided the oil from grilling the sandwich.
Then, he steamed the corn beef and swiss cheese to warm the meat and melt the cheese.
To assemble the Reuben, he spread Thousand Island Dressing on the untoasted sides of the rye bread. Place the heated corn beef and melted swiss cheese on the rye bread. Put some warm 'kraut on top and topped with the other slice of rye. Slice and serve.
Sometimes I like them open faced. A thick slice of toasted jewish rye on the bottom slathered with Russian Dressing. Then a good mound of deli or home cooked corned beef(I like some fat marbled in my corned beef). Top that with you favorite sauerkraut and then a few slices of aged swiss cheese. Place the whole thing in a 350 oven for around fifteen minutes or until heated through. If you like the cheese a little browned, finish it off under the broiler for a minute.
Just in case you're from NYC, I'll add that the 1000 island dressing is necessary. I wouldn't have thought to mention it before I moved to NYC. While I lived there I actually gave up ordering rubens at restaurants, as I was invariably served sandwiches without the magic ingredient. Maybe the concept didn't make it to the east coast intact. (Wasn't the ruben invented in Kansas City? Or am I mistaken?)
re: GG Mora
re: GG Mora
Since we're on the topic of incorrect spelling, we might as well get it right:
Reu·ben [ rbn ] (plural Reu·bens) or Reu·ben sand·wich (plural Reu·ben sand·wich·es)
corned beef sandwich on rye: a grilled sandwich of rye bread filled with corned beef, sauerkraut, Swiss cheese, and thousand island dressing
[Mid-20th century. Origin uncertain: possibly named for the U.S. grocer Reuben Kulakofsky (died 1960).]
We make ruebens on our electric griddle a lot. I prefer marble rye, a dolop of home made 1000 island or russian dressing on the kraut, swiss, corned beef. The cole slaw version is often called a rachel. I prefer the butter - not too much, but I think it actually helps to crisp up the bread. 1000 island dressing - ketchup, mayo, dill relish and capers.
Instead of the typical swiss with holes, I recommend using a good gruyere. Lean pastrami, good rye, and unpasteurized sauerkraut. I agree with a previous poster that a double sided waffle iron is the best for any grilled sandwiches. I don't wish to sound like a promoter, but the Forman Grill is really great for grilled sandwiches (but not much else.) Still, I use my Forman at least once a week, because to get heavenly grilled sandwiches in five minutes, with no mess, is a wonderful thing.
re: Chino Wayne
I like seeded rye or pumpernickel, and I prefer to grill it rather then toast it
The corned beef must be trimmed of fat and sliced very thin.
Please do not use kraut that is out of a can but simmering it in a bit of beer will probably take too long for a spur-of-the-moment Rueben.
Aged Gruyère is nice, but a good domestic swiss is acceptable.
I prefer to use Dijon or Düsseldorf mustard, but I know that Russian is traditional.