291887 Thu Feb 13 22:12:12 -0800 2003 50 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1590806 I've always counted on them to clean up after any Chow endeavors in my kitchen, but the product has gone precipitously downhill. Anyone else noticed? The following screed is what I sent off to the manufacturer today. If you've had the same experience, WRITE AND COMPLAIN. If your favorite bottled sauce suddenly started to suck -- WRITE AND COMPLAIN. If your Mom-and-Pop restaurant got bought out by a national chain who subsequently dumbed it down -- WRITE AND COMPLAIN. Corporations will continue to enfeeble their products in the interest of profits, because (by and large) we sit here like a bunch of morons and keep eating whatever they feed us. WE'VE GOT TO START SPEAKING UP. _______________________________________________ 3M Home Care Division Consumer Affairs PO Box 33068 St. Paul, Minnesota 55133-33068 To whom it may concern: I am writing to register my utter disgust with your new and improved Scotch Brite “Heavy Duty” Scour Pads. I have been a loyal user of Scotch Brite Pads for over 10 years, finding them superior to any other pot-scrubbing product available and vastly preferable to pre-soaped steel wool pads. On average, I could count on a new Scotch Brite Pad to serve proudly at the kitchen sink for a month or more and still have enough guts to go on to shower and tub duty. What have you done?? The pads I bought 2 weeks ago are as much like my favorite scrubbie as a wad of old newspaper. I’ve gone through three of them already, and that’s being charitable. In truth, each one has worn anemic in a day or two, but I haven’t had the heart to retire them so quickly, and have kept them in service past their due. Clearly you have “improved” your formula, no? In all fairness to you, I provide herewith all the numbers printed at lower left of the back of the label, just in case you cranked out a bad lot which you’d like to recall: Cat. 220 34-8506-4349-4 CV-0003-6796-7 (and on the UPC) 0 21200 01000 2 Really, I’m sick and tired of companies downgrading their products, presumably in the interest of cost-effectiveness. If your pad wears out in 3 days instead of a month, you can count on me and all my other dumb-ass consumer brethren to pony up for freshies that much for often, right? I think not. The Scotch Brite pads are outta here, and heaven knows what will replace them, but I won’t be paying my shekels to you. Honestly, what’s next? Post-It Notes that don’t? Sincerely Disappointed, Georgianne Mora cc: The General Topics Message Board at Chowhound.com Thu Feb 13 22:12:12 -0800 2003 0 GG Mora 1 1590808 You go, girl! Thu Feb 13 22:15:41 -0800 2003 1590806 0 zora 1 1590814 Here, here. Way to tell them what's what. And you're right, they have gotten sucky. Thu Feb 13 23:33:13 -0800 2003 1590806 0 david in NOLa 1 1590828 It's funny you should mention that. It took me a couple of pads to realize I wasn't just having an unusual number of tough cleaning jobs. They really have changed the pad. The most annoying thing is the way the little bits of yellow foam get everywhere, and then you have to clean up after the clean-up. Perhaps we can find some of the old variety at Big Lots, final resting place for the discontinued. Fri Feb 14 08:24:16 -0800 2003 1590806 0 danna 2 1590957 Yes Danna-- Perhaps that's what I have been purchasing at my local "ye olde .99 cents store". A whole bag of 'em for less than a buck. Doreen Fri Feb 14 19:54:33 -0800 2003 1590828 0 Doreen 1 1590833 Scotch Brite Pads have fallen victim to radical environmentalists. Fri Feb 14 08:47:16 -0800 2003 1590806 0 jjm 2 1590840 Do you mean their material was degraded so they would become more biodegradable? That's enough to make one eat some Haagen-Daz. (OK, now I have linked this thread to FOOD). Fri Feb 14 09:23:01 -0800 2003 1590833 0 Karl S. 1 1590852 I'm so glad to see this - I thought it was just me. My Scotch Brite sponges have been looking so pathetic in such a short amount of time, I am ashamed to have them by the sink...they look like they have been used for outdoor duty. I have gone through way too many in the past month or so. And yes, they are falling apart and leaving little colored bits and pieces behind. To hell with Scotch Brite, I am throwing them all away and switching brands. Fri Feb 14 10:03:49 -0800 2003 1590806 0 LindaH 1 1590870 Great letter Georgianne and I applaud you for writing it. You're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned. We consumers need to speak up and let companies know when their products aren't up to par. I'm interested in knowing their response, please keep us posted. Fri Feb 14 11:40:08 -0800 2003 1590806 0 Charlieboy 1 1590886 In the January 2003 issue, Cooks Illustrated tested pot clean up scrubbers and reported that Scotch Brite pads are not useful. Fri Feb 14 12:47:57 -0800 2003 1590806 0 Paul H 2 1590928 On their PBS show last Saturday they did the cleaning "pad" comparison. For non-teflon pots and pans, the coiled copper wire thingies came in as the top cleaner. But when it comes to non-stick surfaces, I think most of us would agree that the scotch-bright stuff has in the past at least, done the best job. Fri Feb 14 15:49:44 -0800 2003 1590886 0 Chino Wayne 1 1590893 GG, an absolutely *brilliant* complaint letter! I'm definitely in the minority who write such letters when the need arises, and I rarely get back a satisfactory answer from the conglomerate I complain to (although Farberware is one company I *did* get a positive response from and a solution to my issue). I usually get a form letter thanking me for contacting them, or I get coupons for the product I'm complaining about. How much you wanna bet you'll get cents-off coupons from 3M? :-) Fri Feb 14 13:13:40 -0800 2003 1590806 0 Linda W. 2 1590904 I completely diasgree. This letter is FAR from brilliant. It comes of as nothing but an anti-corporate rant, and as such is not likely to be taken seriously by the recipient. Had this been a second or third letter on the topic, the tone would be appropriate, but not as an initial point of contact. Fri Feb 14 14:08:35 -0800 2003 1590893 0 AlanH 3 1590906 I disagree with your disagreement. As someone who has been on the occasional receiving end of such letters, I can say that reputable companies take these letters seriously. It is quite clear what her complaint is. It should be easy enough to look into this and at least determine whether the product spec has changed. If nothing else, a reply can be drafted explaining the reasons for the change and whatever advantages have ensued. Fri Feb 14 14:17:05 -0800 2003 1590904 0 Pat Goldberg 3 1590913 "This letter is FAR from brilliant." You say "po-TAY-to" and I say "po-TAH-to". There's nothing wrong with writing a letter to a corporation when it is *very* probable that a letter such as this will be noticed. A bland "I didn't like your product" letter would go unnoticed. An extremelly well-worded letter such as GG's wouldn't get thrown away. The fact that someone took the time to write a letter about a product they had used for quite some time is *noticed* by a company, not dismissed. I will admit that their response, however, could continue to be a standard corporate letter, which happens far too often. But if it satisfied the *writer* to send such a letter to a company expressing their disappointment in the downgrade of one of their products, it doesn't much matter what anyone else thinks, does it? Fri Feb 14 15:00:48 -0800 2003 1590904 0 Linda W. 4 1590919 You are entitled to your opinion. I don't know your background, but i ran customer service for a multimillion dollar establishment, and this kind of letter is more often than not considered a crank. A more polite and somewhat reserved tone would have been far more appropriate. Fri Feb 14 15:28:02 -0800 2003 1590913 0 AlanH 5 1590944 Yes, everyone *is* entitled to their opinion. I thought it was a well-written letter. You didn't. 3M's Consumer Affairs group is responsible for dealing with anything and everything, unless it's so completely over the top. This one isn't, *in my opinion.* Fri Feb 14 17:11:40 -0800 2003 1590919 0 Linda W. 5 1590946 Did you ever work for the telecommunications industry? Your attitude reminds me of what I encountered when I started to receive junk fax calls on my voice line at my home several times a week, several times a night. Customer service at Verizon felt that someone somewhere was trying to send an important fax to someone else, so this wasn't harrassment, and I should suck it up and do my part to support American Business. If I didn't like getting waked up ALL THE TIME, it was up to me to change my phone number and try to elude them. The fact that they had blocked their number and continued to call even though the fax was never received was irrelevant, as far as she was concerned. When I asked the customer service person if she would feel agreeable to being waked up several times a night on a regular basis in that manner, she was unable to fake enthusiasm for the idea. Fri Feb 14 17:35:13 -0800 2003 1590919 0 ironmom 1 1590900 Try maintenence or janior supply stores for a much higher quality and less expensive pad! Fri Feb 14 13:56:57 -0800 2003 1590806 0 marti 1 1590915 While I agree with the comments on the reduced quality of Scotch Brite Pads, the letter could have had far less vitriol. I am the CS Manager for a large internet food site, and we get complaint letters daily, but worded in different ways (from folks who don't know how to navigate the site, or even how to use their computers). When I open an e-mail with the sort of tone used here, my finger twitches over the 'delete' key. Someone mentioned that this is the appropriate tone for a third letter when the first two have had no response, and I agree. Why the heck are you being so darn nasty? Don't you know that you can get more flies with honey than vinegar? The only thing that you can count on is that CS folks are tired of people who write those sort of purposely inflammatory letters (possibly they're just really unhappy in life in general), and that your letter will probably wind up in the 'Crank' file. Fri Feb 14 15:11:04 -0800 2003 1590806 0 krissy 2 1590916 Interesting; I am a bit surprised that you, as a CS manager, would consider just deleting such a message. While the tone of the letter is certainly far from friendly, it is not what I would consider a standard "crank letter"; the complaint is specific, the writer a longtime loyal customer, and she even bothered writing down the lot number. Cranks are usually much less specific, coherent, and articulate, and hence less "dangerous" in their [in]ability to pass on their opinion to others. (I deal with a fair share of cranks in my job, as well as with people who are mad for a legitimate reason; GG seems to be the latter case, and I would certainly respond to her if I worked for 3M.) Fri Feb 14 15:22:26 -0800 2003 1590915 0 Katerina 3 1590927 Oh, for goodness sakes...now I'm under attack -I knew someone would pick that out, and you win, Katerina! ... Read my post again...I NEVER said that I deleted these types of letters...I certainly do answer these letters, and our motto is to "kill them with kindness". However, it is astonishing just how many people write in this nasty tone as a first effort, and you just have to wonder about the mentality and lack of basic human courtesy of folks who do this. While the writer may have been mad, it certainly is not the fault of the CS person who will have to read it, and while the letter has a point, it's a particularly unpleasant read, even if it's someone's job. Why can we all just be civil? Fri Feb 14 15:49:05 -0800 2003 1590916 0 krissy 4 1590931 Krissy! Please relax, I reeeeeeally *wasn't* trying to attack you - just saying I was surprised you would *consider*, etc... sorry if it sounded that way... and I'm not really a CS pro, either... Peace ! Fri Feb 14 16:07:51 -0800 2003 1590927 0 Katerina 5 1590960 First of all, I want to applaud the original poster for writing the letter. I think we all let things slide by because we think no one will care. Even for a topic as small as cleaning pads there's that old saying about if good people do nothing evil goes on. Given that, I thought the letter would be ineffective as it was so emotional. As I tend to write these letters myself, I'm linking to a book on Amazon about how to write effective complaint letters. Hope it helps. Shocked, Appalled, and Dismayed! How to Write Letters of Complaint That Get Results is the name of the book. If you enter the words complain or complaint, there are a few others out there. Anyone have a favorite book about how to get a company listent to you? Link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375701206/ref=cm_wl_ovu-pg.1-pos.2/102-0954346-5221768?v=glance&coliid=I1XVG872RCDURP&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER Fri Feb 14 20:19:17 -0800 2003 1590931 0 Stanley Stephan 2 1590917 That's what I was thinking. Then you get to the end and the author is talking "sheckels". Like it becomes a satire, almost mocking people that choose to nit pick everything. The reader may just say to him/herself "alright pal, I gotta sheckel for ya right here" wad it up and toss it. But I like the intention very much. In fact I recently wanted to send such a letter after eating a relatively small amount of Doritos which left my hands coated with a disgusting orangeish goo, but alas, never did. Fri Feb 14 15:23:07 -0800 2003 1590915 0 Fritz 1 1590923 I'm particularly interested in the resposnse you get (if you get one). Perhaps the new sponge is made from a far more environmentally friendly material, and is not, as you assume, some plot to extract another half a penny out of the consumer? Personally, I'd be willing to, and do, spend a bit more to but the less harmful product where posssible. Fri Feb 14 15:35:51 -0800 2003 1590806 0 AlanH 1 1590934 GG, good luck with your quest! Please excuse a quick technical note....to mention that this should have gone on "not about food". It's kind of/sort of tangential to food, but we ask that borderline stuff (including cookware and gadgets) be posted there, just to keep this board from growing even more impossibly overstuffed than it is! This is especially important with rant-ish sorts of things, which tend to elicit streams of highly-charged replies which can really dominate this already super-active board. Speaking of which, this is a tense time in the world. We ask everyone to please control their tempers so we can keep Chowhound a refuge from all the stress. Ranting about brillo pads is kind of funny. Ranting at people who rant about brillo pads is inappropriate, and will be deleted. Injecting politics into the discussion will give your friendly volunteer moderators awful indigestion. Again, let's keep this a friendly refuge. We can all use one! Fri Feb 14 16:58:28 -0800 2003 1590806 2 The Chowhound Team 2 1591057 But isn't that the point that the posters were making? To ask the letter writer to be more civil? Mon Feb 17 09:46:25 -0800 2003 1590934 0 alvin 3 1591067 yeah, and no problem, so long as suggestions of civility are delivered civilly! (try to say that five times fast!) ciao Mon Feb 17 13:52:59 -0800 2003 1591057 0 Jim Leff 1 1590935 Just a note of clarification -- it's not the sponges I'm talking about, it's the plain green scouring pads. If, as AlanH suggested, the change in formula was in the interest of the environment, or if it meant switching to a non-petroleum based compound, I'm all for it. I just won't be counting on'em to scrub pots anymore. Fri Feb 14 16:58:49 -0800 2003 1590806 0 GG Mora 1 1590937 3M also makes a line of sanding/scraping pads intended for painters and do-it yourselfers. The "finer grit" versions of these pads might be a good substitute for the old Scotch Brite Scrubbers. Fri Feb 14 17:00:38 -0800 2003 1590806 0 Paul H 1 1590977 I have used these and they work well. They are kind of like terry cloth with a coating--good for scrubbing pans and getting latex paint off your hands as well! Sat Feb 15 06:57:13 -0800 2003 1590806 0 Martha 2 1590986 Martha, pardon the interruption for a quick request: we ask users not to frequently change subject titles. Doing so screws up the many chowhounds who read these boards via HotPosts (check it out, it's great, via link atop our home page), which are unthreaded. It's best for everyone if we keep the subject titles descriptive of the thread as a whole, and only change them if the discussion has substantially digressed. Thanks a lot! Sat Feb 15 10:36:49 -0800 2003 1590977 2 The Chowhound Team 3 1591058 How about minor modifictions, e.g. appending a word or two? When an original post has many sub-threads, it would be nice to be able to ignore some of them that, FROM THE TITLE, are less interesting to me, possibly being digressions into semi-private dialogs, variants, etc. I'm not trying to make trouble or change anything, I am asking a question. Mon Feb 17 11:20:45 -0800 2003 1590986 0 Carey Schug 4 1591060 That is actually suggested if the topic is taking a slight turn or tangent. Keep the original post, but add a clarifier to it, or if the topic bears no resemblence to the original, change the title but refer to it as "was such and such." The point is to have the topic represent the thread as a whole as opposed to specific messages. jake Mon Feb 17 12:04:04 -0800 2003 1591058 0 jake pine 4 1591066 What Jake said! ciao Mon Feb 17 13:52:12 -0800 2003 1591058 0 Jim Leff 2 1591121 They are great but I can't find them in my stores anymore. Any idea where I can get them? Thanks Tue Oct 21 16:11:33 -0700 2003 1590977 0 Dale Otterman 3 1591122 They are great -- my mother always used them so I've been using them for over 30 years. I can usually buy them at the supermarket -- you just have to keep an eye out for them. I have a sort of mental list of things that I try to remember to check for when I'm shopping and they're one of them. Tue Oct 21 22:32:41 -0700 2003 1591121 0 Ruth Lafler 4 1591128 I live in northern NM and I can't seem to find a store that sells choreboy golden fleese scrubbers. Can anyone help? Mon Nov 17 09:49:09 -0800 2003 1591122 0 Lois 5 1591129 There seem to be quite a few places to buy them on line, and apparently you can buy them at Ace Hardware stores. If you don't seem them, I've always found that Ace Hardware will order anything they don't have on the shelf that's available in the warehouse. Link: http://www.brandnametools.biz/cleaning_paint_supplies/s/Scouring_Pads/_1279059.htm Mon Nov 17 16:11:20 -0800 2003 1591128 0 Ruth Lafler 4 1591135 I feel the same way about these long lasting scrubbers. I found something at Ace hardware.com I have not ordered yet. My daughter says she found them in a Fry's grocery store in Arizona. Sun Feb 08 20:25:16 -0800 2004 1591122 0 ruth 2 1591138 Can someone tell me where in Houston, Tx. can I buy the yellow fleece scrobbers? I have been everywhere and all I can find are the other Choreboy products. Please email me .. rymerino@sbcglobal.net. Thanks Mon Jul 12 00:46:36 -0700 2004 1590977 0 Rose 3 1591139 Have you tried a local Ace Hardware? They're available from the Ace Hardware website, and my experience is that if your local store doesn't have them in stock (which they may -- mine does), if you ask they can get them from the warehouse and save you having to pay shipping fees. Link: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1279059 Mon Jul 12 15:57:37 -0700 2004 1591138 0 Ruth Lafler 1 1590984 Out of curiosity on this issue, I dropped a very brief (and polite) email to 3M, inquiring as to whether there have been many complaints, and if the materials used have changed. My inquiry did not include any anti-corporate rants. I got a response within hours: Thank you for contacting 3M Company regarding the Scotch-Brite(R) Scrub Sponges. Feedback from our customers is an integral part of our business and we encourage it. 3M has always had exceptionally high quality products, will continue to have high quality products and will stand behind them. If you are having difficulty with our sponges, we will be more than happy to get the issue resolved, please let us know. You will then receive replacement sponges and a Postage Paid Label. We welcome your comments on the replacement sponges, as we are confident you will be satisfied with them. Please use the Postage Paid Label to return the original product to our Quality Assurance Laboratory. Please provide us with the following information: 1. Phone number (in the event we have a problem filling your order). 2. The Cat. No. (Catalog Number) or the Bar Code number from the packaging or the description (i.e. a yellow sponge with a green scrubber, with or without a design). 3. The number of products that did not perform well. Your comments and observations about the product will be forwarded to both our marketing and manufacturing groups. We value your continued loyalty to 3M Products. I will watch for your reply! Happy Valentines Day! Sincerely, Gina 3M Home Care Division 800-537-9514 Sat Feb 15 10:21:19 -0800 2003 1590806 0 AlanH 2 1590991 Thank you Alan for showing us how to do it right! Honey really does work better than vinegar! Sat Feb 15 11:28:24 -0800 2003 1590984 0 Pea 2 1590994 This is all very nice and polite. I hope I am not being rude by pointing out that we haven't found out the answer to the question. Sat Feb 15 12:35:03 -0800 2003 1590984 0 Paul H 3 1590996 3M will never admit that they changed their product for anything but for the better. Alan did the right thing. He sent them a polite letter that resulted in an immediate (albeit pre-written, standard corporate mumbo-jumbo) response. I like GG Mora's initiative but she used the wrong tactic: one that turns people off rather than get them thinking about solving the problem. Now if we could only meld the two together, GG Mora's passion and Alan's mature, reasoned response we'd have the perfect consumer! Now lets move on! Sat Feb 15 12:55:53 -0800 2003 1590994 0 Picklehead 2 1591003 You got an unresponsive "feel good" form letter in return. There is nothing in that letter that shows any sign that a human being actually *read* the complaint. To regard this exercise as a triumph is um... misguided. With all respect to the hard working folks who staff corporate customer service centers, I have had my best results in sending complaint letters by also sending an additional copy to the president or the CEO of the company. I am under no delusion that the Big Cheese actually reads my letters, but I know that they have a staff of powerful administrative assistants who do. Sometimes these AAs become involved in expediting a solution. At other times the mere threat of getting a lightning bolt from on high has a magical effect on making the customer service people extremely responsive. I'll tell you one thing - when I send a copy of my complaint letter to the CEO, I never receive a form letter in return. I get an actual response, written by a real person which directly deals with my complaint. Sat Feb 15 13:44:51 -0800 2003 1590984 0 Bob Martinez 3 1591005 Whichever type of letter (email) you send (and a blend of the two would be okay, a little stroke & poke)copying the President/CEO is always a good idea. As a former AA to two CEO's at different companies, I promise you anything (email, letter or phone call)that came to his attention was dealt with. Either by myself or I birddogged it through an executive or senior manager. Even snotty communications were given full attention. If the customer turned out to be one of those types that just refused to be satisfied or happy after numerous tries, then I would refer them to a competitor or mail them a competing product (if possible). I would be happy at that point to give such a customer to our competitors.... Sat Feb 15 14:28:11 -0800 2003 1591003 0 LindaH 4 1591013 As another former EA for several President/CEOs, I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestion that a copy be sent to the CEO AND with LindaH's post. If it gets as far as the CEO and warrants attention, it got attention and was resolved. If she hasn't already, it couldn't hurt for GG to send a separate copy of her letter to the CEO of 3M. Sat Feb 15 16:06:10 -0800 2003 1591005 0 Linda W. 2 1591049 Hey, thanks for taking the time to make a bigger ass of me than I'd already made of myself. I'll keep you posted. Sun Feb 16 14:28:23 -0800 2003 1590984 0 GG Mora